Battle of Geonosis vs Modern Day Hell

[JointStrikeFighter]

At the battle of Geonosis instead of a horde of droids the Hellmouth from Iraq opens up and Hells legions under Abigor our through with the intent of bringing Geonosis under Satan's fold.

Clone forces remain unchanged from the movie.

[Sarevok]

A Republic fighter fires a single shot from orbit and vaporizes Abigor's army in a fraction of a miliscacond.

Next time remember that before you start dissing SW weapon figures. Your poor attempt at sarcasm aside I am saving this quote to throw back at you next time you start whining about starfighters.

[NecronLord]

But, even the most competent ground army in Star Wars, the Gungans, would have gotten their asses kicked by Abigor's army (they'd march right through their shield and go to town).

No they wouldn't. You need an earthed suit to go through those shields and live. They would be electrocuted trying.

[Sea Skimmer]

No they wouldn't. You need an earthed suit to go through those shields and live. They would be electrocuted trying.

According to what? Those shields sure don’t behave anything like electricity does, not even remotely so.

[Bob the Gunslinger]

At the battle of Geonosis instead of a horde of droids the Hellmouth from Iraq opens up and Hells legions under Abigor our through with the intent of bringing Geonosis under Satan's fold.

Clone forces remain unchanged from the movie.

Which theology/mythology are we using? Is this the army that swarms the earth in the book of Revelations? Are the demons going to have the war machine monsters from Paradise Lost? The powers thay had in Dante's Inferno or Niven and Pournelle's Inferno? The mighty combination of magic and unreal logistics from God's Demon? Demons from Buffy?

How are we going to quantify the demonic horde's abilities? What if they aren't just smashing rocks, but vaporizing them? How do you quantify temptation and corruption? Won't this just lead to even more tedious and underdefined versions of "40k Chaos corrupts all." "40k corrupts NOTHING! Now, quantify your magic, or else!" arguments?


If this is some Salvation War crap, please say so in the OP so some of us don't have to waste our time with it. Thanks.

[NecronLord]

No they wouldn't. You need an earthed suit to go through those shields and live. They would be electrocuted trying.

According to what? Those shields sure don’t behave anything like electricity does, not even remotely so.

My mistake. The clone/stormtrooper armour protects them against the heat of stepping through force-fields like the gungans one. Ep2 ICS Republic Gunship foldout. "The armour's heat resistance allows troopers to stride through the searing interfaces of theatre shields like lifeless Battle Droids"

So they won't be electrocuted, they'll just be burnt. However, page 28 (AT-TE) has...

"AT-TEs are effective at penetrating powerful energy shields. Walker movement uses simple surface traction wheras the high-velocity exhausts that drive a speeder or starship are stifled by particle shields. Furthermore flying craft can be damaged by energy discharges leaping up from the ground at shield interfaces, but a walker's natural grounding provides invulnerability against this effect. AT-TEs are also well shielded against Electromagnetic pulse weapons and ion cannon fire."

Which does sound more like an electrical phonomenon. I seem to recall something about Stromtrooper armour being earthed on that frame-by-frame analysis of Episode 4 that was put out on the official site too, for the record. Either way passing through a shield without protection and/or earthing is very dangerous.

[NecronLord]

If this is some Salvation War crap, please say so in the OP so some of us don't have to waste our time with it. Thanks.

It's Salvation War.

[NecronLord]

Ah, that would explain the electrical arcing we saw coming from the shield as the droids approached it and why Qui-Gon and Obi-Wan were fried when they passed through the same kind of shield when entering the Gungan city.

Are you a retard? Star Wars has several types of shield. The ones on the gungan city are designed to allow access (in some places) theatre shields are... err, not.

[Vendetta]

My mistake. The clone/stormtrooper armour protects them against the heat of stepping through force-fields like the gungans one. Ep2 ICS Republic Gunship foldout. "The armour's heat resistance allows troopers to stride through the searing interfaces of theatre shields like lifeless Battle Droids"

So they won't be electrocuted, they'll just be burnt.

Why was the grass not on fire?

[NecronLord]

They look exactly the same, people pass through them exactly the same way (walking), with exactly the same special effects, and they come from the same source (Gungans). Is it really that much of a stretch to conclude they are the same thing?

They don't have the same effect at all.

This is not the same as this. They are not the same special effects. Next you'll be saying that the 'ray shield' used to capture the Jedi on board Invisible Hand was the same as the 'door' on the Gungan city, and they didn't step through it because they have an irrational fear of shields.

In any case, EU is canon, so provide proof that unarmoured personnel can step through a theatre shield, not an underwater bubble shield or fuck off.

Why was the grass not on fire?

The grass under the theatre shield actually reflects blaster bolts repeatedly during the battle. Seriously. Go watch it.

The grass in that scene is therefore more thermally resistant than stormtrooper armour.

Somehow.

[Stofsk]

Yeah sure, grass is resistant to blaster fire. It couldn't possibly be a special effects goof.

[Shroom Man 777]

If it's in the movie, it's canon. So we must strive to reconcile these things with other canon sources and not just discard it with out-of-universe rationalizations like "SFX goofs" or something as intellectually lazy as that.

[Grandmaster Jogurt]

Yeah sure, grass is resistant to blaster fire. It couldn't possibly be a special effects goof.

We're not just talking about them hitting the grass and fizzling out or something; they actually reflect like light hitting a mirror, and far enough away from anything else and at angles low enough that it's obviously hitting the grass. They also leave small scorch marks where they bounce. If continuing to animate the bolts along an entirely new course rather than having them vanish is a special effects goof, that's quite the weird mistake to make. It's a very strange effect, but I can't see it as not deliberately included.

[Stofsk]

Yeah sure, grass is resistant to blaster fire. It couldn't possibly be a special effects goof.

We're not just talking about them hitting the grass and fizzling out or something; they actually reflect like light hitting a mirror, and far enough away from anything else and at angles low enough that it's obviously hitting the grass. They also leave small scorch marks where they bounce. If continuing to animate the bolts along an entirely new course rather than having them vanish is a special effects goof, that's quite the weird mistake to make. It's a very strange effect, but I can't see it as not deliberately included.

You're suggesting the animators intentionally meant to convey that blaster bolts can bounce off of grass?

[Cykeisme]

The shields over the door of the Gungan city are meant to keep out water, whereas the shield to cover the Gungan army was meant to keep out enemy troops and weapon fire. However, properly shielded troops (or droids) can get through without damage.
Is that so hard to stomach?

Anyway, if I'm not mistaken Gungan shields are supposed to be different from the more common shield technology used in SW.

[Grandmaster Jogurt]

You're suggesting the animators intentionally meant to convey that blaster bolts can bounce off of grass?

As far as I know it only happens inside the Gungan area shielding and it may only happen to bolts that have already been reflected off the hand shields, so it's at least able to be rationalised one way or another. And the alternative is that they accidentally on multiple occasions (but only in one scene) forgot to have the bolts vanish and instead continued to animate them on new, perfectly mirrored courses, which I find a bit hard to believe. In fact, some frames show the bolts bending mid-reflection.

[Stofsk]

And the alternative is that they accidentally on multiple occasions (but only in one scene) forgot to have the bolts vanish and instead continued to animate them on new, perfectly mirrored courses, which I find a bit hard to believe.

I guess this is where you and I differ, because I find it quite easy to believe that some slack animator or his supervisor either missed it or as a joke decided to make blaster bolts reflect off of grass, rather than Naboo grass being somehow able to accomplish such a feat in-universe.

I seem to recall battledroids get hit by reflected blasts as well and the bolts there don't bounce off them.

[NecronLord]

If you are willing to ascribe something that must be outright deliberate on the part of the animators to 'joke' you can apply that to almost anything that's a silly visual. Have you seen the DVD extra on the Ep3 disc that details how many people work on and review a single shot? Unless it's an obvious easter egg, we can assume anything in the prequels that was deliberately inserted was meant to be there.

It's blindingly stupid yes. But huge chunks of TPM are childish and silly. This is one of them.

[Stofsk]

If you are willing to ascribe something that must be outright deliberate on the part of the animators to 'joke' you can apply that to almost anything that's a silly visual.

Actually I'm willing to either ascribe it as a joke or as a mistake, whichever works best.

Have you seen the DVD extra on the Ep3 disc that details how many people work on and review a single shot?

No I haven't, but that doesn't mean mistakes can't happen. It does mean they're unlikely to occur, however.

It's blindingly stupid yes. But huge chunks of TPM are childish and silly. This is one of them.

At least we can agree on something.

[NecronLord]

Have you seen the DVD extra on the Ep3 disc that details how many people work on and review a single shot?

No I haven't, but that doesn't mean mistakes can't happen. It does mean they're unlikely to occur, however.

Well put it this way. It'd have had to have run past dozens of people including Lucas himself before it got put on the screen and animating it would have involved dozens more. There's basically no chance some random artist could slip anything in. If it's there it's been stamp-of-approvaled by several layers of QC.

[LionElJonson]

Or maybe the Gungan energy sheilds ionized the grass, and the electrical field reflected them?

[lord Martiya]

At the battle of Geonosis instead of a horde of droids the Hellmouth from Iraq opens up and Hells legions under Abigor our through with the intent of bringing Geonosis under Satan's fold.

Clone forces remain unchanged from the movie.

Question: how do you think the poor baldricks will be able to face them? I mean, the harpies would face the LAAT gunships, that have enough firepower to clear the sky from them and are tough enough to resist their fireballs, and on the ground we have clone infantry with small arms powerful enough to blast the poor baldricks into pieces and the AT-TE walkers A.K.A. The Iron Beasts, more powerful than modern day tanks and more shocking than mere iron chariots.
Assuming the orbital Republic fleet doesn't detect the opening Hellmouth and mistake it for some Geonosian weapon (and I remember you that Acclamator I-class vessels have 200 gigaton guns), a mere 400,000 baldricks would be no match.

[NecronLord]

One potential explanation for the bouncing blaster bolt is that it literally bounced. Blaster bolts are almost certainly physical projectiles, considering the sum of their characteristics.

I'm going to ignore a lot of this, because in all honesty, blaster bolts are future bullets. It's not consistent with a solid object bouncing. Even if they were made of a solid material they wouldn't bounce at angle-of-reflection like that, they'd rebound off the ground and tumble. I'd also like to know how bouncing off a lightsaber blade is consistent with the behaviour of a solid object.

[Grandmaster Jogurt]

From the angle and direction of travel you can see that all the bolts that reflect off the ground have previously been reflected off the Gungan hand shields. They also bounce within the Gungan's area shielding and I have never seen a case where they reflect off the ground elsewhere or after the shields fall. Thus there are at least two variables involved here beyond simply the grass itself, and since they are not seen elsewhere and neither is the effect, either or both variables are likely involved.

[Cykeisme]

Hmm.. so it may have something to do with the Gungan shield dome, the handheld shields, or both.
That's an interesting observation, and the effect is obviously intentional, but what hypotheses do you guys think can be made about Gungan shields and blaster bolts based on it?

Btw Destructionator XIII, I think you should make a thread to discuss your points.. it'll be more efficient than having it spread over several threads as it is now. Not backseat moderating, mind you, it's probably fine in that regard. I just think it would serve your purposes better.