Creative Bankrupcy: Bioshock 3 (this time it's in the sky!)

[Patroklos]

Ahah! I was right, It's neo-con criticism the game as Bioshock hit up Libertarianism.

There isn't really much about neoconservatism here, you really have to bend over backwards to make it work. While its American adherents might be religious, there is very little religious about the tenents of the neoconservatism itself. Neo conservatism is in its entiretly a foriegn policy based approach to playing power politics on the nation state stage (a stage many think barely exists) and applying a self declared universal script for political rights, for that reason it is entirely divorced from some shoehorned accusation of racism or sexism as well.

Just because you dislike neoconservatism and whatever concept of conservatism that auto includes racism and sexism for good measure, and its easier for you to just lump them all together in one package to hate, does not mean it exists outside your imagination.

As is clearly alluded to with the story of Commodore Perry, the analogy seems to be taking on late nineteenth century empire building and manifest destiny/white mans burden themes (which is NOT the same thing as neoconservatism for the politically inept in the audience), which are applicable to any major power of the day. It very clearly talks about opening markets for industrialization purposes, making a clear link between the goobling up of Aftica and Asia by the powers of the day. It seems to me this would be what would happen if America had the opportunity to participate in that scramble for colonies and resources as an equal instead of a late comer taking the scraps, taken to the extreme using our own political culture of the time.

It makes more sense anyways. American exceptionalism plays to some political elements today, but it is not a new concept either for America or for many other nations as any look at the age of colonialsm will tell you. Every nation or influence walked around with a chip on its sholder far greater than anything we know today, and they took it out on their colonial subjects with unhidden glee. Then on each other, killing millions.

[Patroklos]

Sorry, couldn't edit anymore.

I think the time frame being captured is made clear in this interview, as well as pointing out they wanted a relevant but hardly set piece link to the present:

BioShock 1 wasn't historical, but it was set in the context of history. There was a feeling in America that we were trying to represent. And very much the same here. At the turn of the century, there was this feeling of optimism. All these technologies came in place in the span of twenty years. You go from people with cows and outhouses and growing wheat in fields, to having radios and cars and movie stars, and all these incredible things. It's almost as if they felt a city was suddenly floating in the sky. That's how much the world had changed.

There's a lot of books you could read. I think Teddy Roosevelt is a great place to start. He really is the center of where America was at the time, and America's role from being a small provincial power to placing itself on the world's stage. This feeling of optimism -- we can do all these huge things -- we have the technology, we have this incredible democratic system, which really was a beacon of hope at the time. It was a world filled with monarchies and despots. And Columbia [Ed's note: fictional city of Infinite] came out of that. We really wanted to base something on that time, which people haven't really seen before, but also, in a lot of ways, feels very familiar to some things that are very much in our consciousness today.

http://www.joystiq.com/2010/08/12/video ... -infinite/

[Sarevok]

What is this "deep" plot some of you are talking here ? Forgive me for being insolent but I just started playing Bioshock 2. All I see is poorly lit corridors and zombie like critters jumping at me out of nowhere. Where can I find this deep intellectual part of Bioshock ? Is there a patch I have to install ? Please help me because I was told if I buy Bioshock I would get an artistic experience with philosophy and literary narrative. I was not expecting a shoot zombies in the dark game.

[General Zod]

What is this "deep" plot some of you are talking here ? Forgive me for being insolent but I just started playing Bioshock 2. All I see is poorly lit corridors and zombie like critters jumping at me out of nowhere. Where can I find this deep intellectual part of Bioshock ? Is there a patch I have to install ? Please help me because I was told if I buy Bioshock I would get an artistic experience with philosophy and literary narrative. I was not expecting a shoot zombies in the dark game.

The fact that you're playing Bioshock 2 and not Bioshock 1 is part of the problem. (Bioshock 2 was made by a different studio who mostly recycled large chunks of the first game while leaving huge gaping plotholes you could plow a truck through.)

[Mr Bean]

There isn't really much about neoconservatism here, you really have to bend over backwards to make it work. While its American adherents might be religious, there is very little religious about the tenents of the neoconservatism itself. Neo conservatism is in its entiretly a foriegn policy based approach to playing power politics on the nation state stage (a stage many think barely exists) and applying a self declared universal script for political rights, for that reason it is entirely divorced from some shoehorned accusation of racism or sexism as well.

Just because you dislike neoconservatism and whatever concept of conservatism that auto includes racism and sexism for good measure, and its easier for you to just lump them all together in one package to hate, does not mean it exists outside your imagination.

It makes more sense anyways. American exceptionalism plays to some political elements today, but it is not a new concept either for America or for many other nations as any look at the age of colonialsm will tell you. Every nation or influence walked around with a chip on its sholder far greater than anything we know today, and they took it out on their colonial subjects with unhidden glee. Then on each other, killing millions.

Neo conservatism as it is practiced in America is all about American exceptionalism. I'm not sure from which country you hail from or your exposure to American politics but here in America as it is practiced. Neo-conservatism is a weird hybrid of standard conservative principles plus the standing assumption that America IS exceptional in the world. When I say Neo-conservatism is going to be the main style feature of the game as Libertarian total free market principles were the feature of Bioshock 1, I'm referring to American Neo-conservatism. Just as what a Democratic party differs from country to country, American Neo-conservatism is it's own special bundle of crazy.

It's members embrace traditional conservative principles such as being anti-immigration, English only government. Hands off my guns but by all means tell me what positions I'm allowed to use in the bedroom. To which they then add the Neo-conservative principles of "prompting democracy" (Read 18th century resource invasions) all of the world. An American Neo-conservative is not just a Neo-conservative. He is often a Conservative in 70% of things, to which is added on the emphasis of the foriegn police objectives of Neo-conservative objectives. While the "white mans burden" is not spelled out in their beliefs it can be found in the groups that conservatives go to for support, the think tanks and modern fake research groups they go to produce studies that "blacks inherently more violent then whites". The white man's burden belief relies in turn on the belief that the white man is best at all things and must uplift/look after those lesser branches of humanity. Now if your conservative position is that whites are superior to the other races is it really so far off?

In America Neo-conservatives are simply a shade of conservative.
You seem to think I have some great hate against them, no sir I do not. I do not agree with nearly any policy position they hold but that's why I said Ah-ha! Neo-conservative is this game's whipping boy.

Why? Because that's what they did for Bioshock 1, they took Libertarian beliefs to to there extreme, look at what men have done to themselves woe!
Bioshock 2 was another visit to Rapture this time with a dictator, benevolent or not.
Bishock 3 as I have predicted will be a visit to Neo-conservative/Conservative beliefs to there extreme, look at what men have done to themselves woe!
Bishock 4 it's too soon to say
But if Bioshock 5 follows this pattern it will be some left side of the scale belief system taken to the extreme (In space!... hopefully) woe!

The Bioshock team has a style, and that style is to build a world backed and run by an extreme belief system and then show how such extremist systems go to hell in their own unique ways. If it is not Neo-conservatives what belief system do you believe is up on the chopping block for game 3?

[Patroklos]

You honestly have no idea what you are talking about. Neoconservatism has nothing to do with any domestic issue whatsoever, it is a foriegn policy initiative, you are simply parroting talking points. There are plenty or reasons to critisize neoconservatism but at ther very least you can take the effort to actually learn what it is. The very reason it is called NEOconservatism is that it differs from previous conservative tenents concerning interventionalism.

A definition for you:

Neoconservatism is a political philosophy that emerged in the United States of America, which supports using modern American economic and military power to bring liberalism, democracy, and human rights to other countries.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neoconservatism

Again, it has NOTHING to do with domestic issues, and in your haste to lump all your hated conservatives into one easily smeared pile you seem to be oblivous to the fact that there is a deep divide amongst conservatives of the older economic style and newer religious breed and neoconservatives themselves, primarily because neoconservatives are willing to sacrifice manstream conservative economic and social planks on the alter of foriegn policy.

You are shoehorning in a concept you obviously don't understand so you can use a video game for some lame political statment. Why you feel thats necessary in the first place let alone when I just quoted you a leading developer framing the time period intended to be referenced (turn of the century 1900ish) is odd to say the least.

An American Neo-conservative is not just a Neo-conservative. He is often a Conservative in 70% of things, to which is added on the emphasis of the foriegn police objectives of Neo-conservative objectives. While the "white mans burden" is not spelled out in their beliefs it can be found in the groups that conservatives go to for support, the think tanks and modern fake research groups they go to produce studies that "blacks inherently more violent then whites". The white man's burden belief relies in turn on the belief that the white man is best at all things and must uplift/look after those lesser branches of humanity. Now if your conservative position is that whites are superior to the other races is it really so far off?

Alright, I am now sorry I took you seriously for a minute there. 70% eh? Modern white man's burden eh? I bet their hearts of of ice and pumps blood of thick black ooze. They eat babies too I bet.

I am sorry I barged into rantings. Seriously, why do people feel the need to make up complete fabrications about something like neoconservatism when there are such easily exploitable faults that exist in reality?

[Zaune]

I think we're putting a lot more thought into the underlying political message than the actual developers are, and they're just ripping the piss out of people who take Fox News seriously rather than any specific political ideology.
To which my first thought is, "And why not?", but then I was fortunate enough to miss out on Haze.