A company of Space Marines and World War 2

[Serafina]

So, you have got a company of (40K) Space Marines (Ultramarines for sake of simplicity), transported aboard a Strike Cruiser.
That cruiser is stuffed with as many supplies and vehicles as you want, and is equiped with a teleporter. You can also have a few specialists if required (say, you want a special psyker or expert on non-Space Marine tactics (an imperial officer) or an experienced administrator).

Your orders are to subjugate Earth under imperial rule while causing as little damage as possible. Hence, Codex Astartes doctrine prohibits excessive use of orbital bombardments.

You arrive on August 15, 1941. Since no one has the technology to detect you when you arrive, you have total surprise initially, tough earth will figure out what's going on within a month.
Oh, and Earth is not Terra, no time travel is involved etc. The warp is also fully functional for you, but you don't have to worry about demonic incursions or anything (unless your psykers get possessed, which is unlikely with librarians).


So, what are you going to do?
Here are a couple of possible strategies:
-Ally with the Nazis and disrupt allied and soviet command structure, critical facilites etc. with quick strikes from orbit. Make them dependant on you, since they will be anyway.
-Do the same with the Allies, but make plans to disrupt their diplomatic governments later on in order to install imperial rule.
-Overthrow soviet government by making yourself heroes (by fighting the germans) and killing the current one. Use their vast resources and try to build some STK-constructs such as tanks. Either way, overrun Europe with soviet forces.
Which one of those is the best or most viable, or are there any other good options?

[IvanTih]

Ups sorry didn't read that about orbital bombardment.

[Serafina]

Ups sorry didn't read that about orbital bombardment.

You can do limited bombardment, but you are not supposed to do it on a significant scale (do not wipe out major cities and industrial centers and the like). The capability is there, you are just supposed to hold back and rely on the usage of Space Marines (mostly because it's more interesting that way and fits Astartes doctrines).

[IvanTih]

Ups sorry didn't read that about orbital bombardment.

You can do limited bombardment, but you are not supposed to do it on a significant scale (do not wipe out major cities and industrial centers and the like). The capability is there, you are just supposed to hold back and rely on the usage of Space Marines (mostly because it's more interesting that way and fits Astartes doctrines).

What about doing a Lance Strike on some uninhabited location to scare hell out of them?

[Star Wars 888]

LOL I started a new trend.

[IvanTih]

@Serafina
What is more canon,Space Marine chapter can conquer a Star System or a Chapter can conquer single planet.
I think that second one is,even if Marines only do leadership strikes they can't hold vs enemy until Imperial force arrives with more than hundred men(besides 10 squads,company has Captain,Chaplain and other officers).

[Serafina]

LOL I started a new trend.

Hardly, we had such threads way back and i was contemplating about this particular one for quite a while. Furthermore, my szenario makes sense.

What about doing a Lance Strike on some uninhabited location to scare hell out of them?

Technically, you do not have lances - only Macrocannons and Bombardment Cannons. But yes, you can do that if you want. Just don't count solely on it.

What is more canon,Space Marine chapter can conquer a Star System or a Chapter can conquer single planet.
I think that second one is,even if Marines only do leadership strikes they can't hold vs enemy until Imperial force arrives with more than hundred men(besides 10 squads,company has Captain,Chaplain and other officers).

Ah, yes.
Sorry, i forgot to add:
You do not get any further troops, at least not within several decades. You are supposed to subjugate the planet all on your own. Hence you will need to recruit extra troops, rule by fear or something like that.

[NecronLord]

I, a citizen of the Twenty First century know what the Nazis are. I'm totally fucking up their day. And indeed the rest of their existance.

I send a Thunderhawk to each concentration camp and POW facility with a squad of marines and chapter-serf support staff (they'll still fuck up WW2 soldiers without trouble) to eradicate the guards, arm the population and tell them to hold out on evacuation. I'd also go rescue the jews in Kovno and various other places massacred on this day, though I don't actually know that off the top of my head so that's just from googling the date. Space marine technical advisers to be kept on-site.

Simultaneously the company commander and his squad can then go and bring me Hitler, and Himmler, alive. They are going to be incarcerated until I can get around to grandstanding it. Broadcasts of all this will be made by the emissary of the Missionarius Galaxia I shall of course have with me.

Next up we're going to pay a visit to occupied China. We can take a resonably skilled Magos Biologis to try and help people in that area too because as soon as we locate japanese biowarfare testing areas the staff shall if possible be captured. The doctors will be made into servitors. POW camps will also be hit.

Satellites will be deployed in orbit of the planet to ensure each liberated location remains liberated, and orbital fire, thunderhawk-transporters and Space Marine tanks employed to ensure this.

I will leave Hirohito and his ministers alive for now, because I don't know how essential any particular ministers or leaders would be in forcing a surrender, but I think Hirohito himself will be.

Next we're pretty much doing the same to Soviet Russia.

Then I'm going to requisition myself a conversion field, teleport myself the Brother Captain and his guards to the League of Nations, whereupon the company champion will behead Hitler, Himmler, Stalin and any other malefactors caught along the way after I read out a declaration of their crimes.

Returning to my ship, I will then unload a bombardment cannon volley on the moon, several times over so everyone on Earth gets a good look, and tell them all to buck up their ideas, and that henceforth the planet is Annexus Imperialis.

Twenty four to thirty six hours and we're done (I'm not waiting for Heads of Government at the LON).

-----

Oh yes. I'm also offering Roosevelt juvent treatments, a fix for his paralysis, and possibly the post of Imperial Commander, if the governments of Earth don't sort out a constitution for the ratification of Imperial Commander I can take to the Administratum and get approved.

[Serafina]

Okay, this is my personal strategy, quite different and more long-term (since i am not in a hurry, and i assume that i do not have historical knowledge here):

I start with supporting the soviet troops against the german invasion. At this point, they are still in a lot of trouble. My Space Marines can easily bail them out by breaking enemy assaults and killing enemy officers behind enemy lines (better yet, capture them). Basically, i am aiming to impress the local troops. For that purpose, my Marine will also fight along their sides.

A month later, i should have halted most of the german advance and gained a lot of respect from most of the soviet troops.
At that point, i strike at the heart of soviet leadership and take off it's head. I will either make an experienced commander of my Marines the new head of state or an experienced administrator or cleric i brough with me.
With that newfound power base, i will attempt several things. First, spread the imperial cult. Second, solve some of the problems with replicable advanded technology (such as agriculture). Third, try to replicate some of the simpler imperial weapons and equip my armies with them.

During the winter, i will demoralize Germany by continous strikes in it's heartland. I aim mostly at leadership targets in order to do so.
After the winter, my armies will advance with Space Marines as spearheads and orbital bombardements agaisnt dug-in enemies (unless they are in cities). Germany should fall within the year. I then attempt to modernize it's industry the same way and have most of Europe.

America is no thread at that point, since their airforce is no match for mine. Neither is their navy any use. Within another year, i have cemented my leadership in Imperial Europe and i am ready to launch an invasion on the already crippled (by my own forces) USA.

Basically, all conquered territories will be heavily indoctrinated in the imperial cult. Daily life will depend on it, other religions and not following mine will be punished. That will ensure loyalty in leadership figures, since they are chosen by that criteria.
I will ensure that i bring some specialists that can plan all of that, my Marine forces will be used as strike forces to break any notable resistance.



I think that this plan does insure minimal damage and can be reasonable expected from a Space Marine commander against an unknown target. If i was actually in command myself, my strategy would be more similar to NecronLords.

[NecronLord]

You realise the Imperium does not *have* to impose grimdark on everyone, right? We've seen democratic planets in the Imperium. It can simply roll up, kill uncooperative leaders, co-opt the local religion, and then let the natives run themselves until the Administratum tithe assessors arrive? They certainly wouldn't oppress local religions unless they had to. They'd much rather identify the Emperor with Jesus/Allah/Khrishna than have to fight other religions.

Also, your strategy completely ignores the pacific war.

And you're Space Marines, there's always something else you could be doing!

[Serafina]

You realise the Imperium does not *have* to impose grimdark on everyone, right? We've seen democratic planets in the Imperium. It can simply roll up, kill uncooperative leaders, co-opt the local religion, and then let the natives run themselves until the Administratum tithe assessors arrive? They certainly wouldn't oppress local religions unless they had to. They'd much rather identify the Emperor with Jesus/Allah/Khrishna than have to fight other religions.

Also, your strategy completely ignores the pacific war.

And you're Space Marines, there's always something else you could be doing!

Yes, i know that. I was trying to extrapolate the strategy of an actual Space Marine commander.

Stopping the pacific war will not be difficult, since it's rather easy to sink those fleets, and i think you can afford to bombard a couple of strategic marine bases as well.

[NecronLord]

Yes, i know that. I was trying to extrapolate the strategy of an actual Space Marine commander.

Ultramarines are pretty decent folks. I would imagine they'd just step on the war as fast as possible and that'd be that.

Of course, once the actual death camps appear the Marines may just ignore you and take them and the Nazi leadership out. A company of Black Templars did exactly this when they encountered something similar, ignoring their actual orders and ruthlessly purging the wrong doers; and those wrongdoers were loyal to the Imperium too.

[Darth Hoth]

You realise the Imperium does not *have* to impose grimdark on everyone, right? We've seen democratic planets in the Imperium. It can simply roll up, kill uncooperative leaders, co-opt the local religion, and then let the natives run themselves until the Administratum tithe assessors arrive? They certainly wouldn't oppress local religions unless they had to. They'd much rather identify the Emperor with Jesus/Allah/Khrishna than have to fight other religions.

Democratic planets seem to be rather rare, though, with most of the fluff I have seen on Imperial Commanders indicating that the office is usually a hereditary dictatorship, and the examples of them that I have seen tend to back this up (although I admit to not having read all that many BL books, so that sample size is fairly small).

And Space Marines from all I know are bona fide psychofanatics, at least some of them. The short story about the Exterminatus of Cyrene that ran in Inferno! was replete with immolation, crucifixion, gassing and mass murder in general . . . for the purpose of ruling by fear. And the Space Marine protagonist condemned his own planet and family to it.

The Blood Ravens probably think the Nazis are too tame for their taste. Or, they think they have the right idea and back them all the way. ("Hey 'Jew' sounds almost like 'mutant,' doesn't it? And Jehovah . . . ? That sounds like a Chaos Daemon. Not to mention this Godless philosophy the almost-Valhallan guys the almost-Kriegans are fighting have. Blasphemy! They deny the divinity of the Emperor!" "Yeah, let's kill the lot just to be sure. And tell the Inquisitor these guys in the black uniforms will make great Storm Troopers.")

Ultramarines, I cannot say, it was too long since I read the books. But I do remember Uriel striking me as the "carrying out my orders is a sacred duty" type.

[Darth Hoth]

My option: Cheating, by brainwashing people with psychic powers that no one on Earth has any understanding of, or defence against.

[Ford Prefect]

The Blood Ravens probably think the Nazis are too tame for their taste.

Space Marines have actually encountered a civillisation which had wiped out some ludicrously huge portion of the population based on pretty obviously Nazi reasoning. As I recall, the Space Marines wiped them out for being dickheads.

[Darth Hoth]

The Blood Ravens probably think the Nazis are too tame for their taste.

Space Marines have actually encountered a civillisation which had wiped out some ludicrously huge portion of the population based on pretty obviously Nazi reasoning. As I recall, the Space Marines wiped them out for being dickheads.

Well, no one said that the IoM was not hypocritical. They would obviously condemn other people's atrocities while supporting their own.

[Black Admiral]

And Space Marines from all I know are bona fide psychofanatics, at least some of them. The short story about the Exterminatus of Cyrene that ran in Inferno! was replete with immolation, crucifixion, gassing and mass murder in general . . . for the purpose of ruling by fear. And the Space Marine protagonist condemned his own planet and family to it.

Exterminatus is not supposed to be pleasant - it's literally the most extreme sanction in the Imperium's arsenal. Granted I haven't read that particular story, but I presume it was justified, because Exterminatus strikes have to be; and the personal consequences for anyone who orders one that can't be justified would be extreme. The Inquisition doesn't like people who do that.

(mind you, to my recollection the Blood Ravens are pretty big dicks, by SM standards - not quite so much so as the Marines Malevolent, but that's not saying much)

Ultramarines, I cannot say, it was too long since I read the books. But I do remember Uriel striking me as the "carrying out my orders is a sacred duty" type.

Uriel very nearly murders Inquisitor Kryptmann in Warriors of Ultramar for behaving like a complete jackass (specifically, virus bombing a world without (in Uriel's view) good reason and after giving his word that he wouldn't).

[Purple]

That cruiser is stuffed with as many supplies and vehicles as you want, and is equipped with a teleporter. You can also have a few specialists if required (say, you want a special psyker or expert on non-Space Marine tactics (an imperial officer) or an experienced administrator).

Can I get one or several techmarines with that? Preferably with STC's for imperium grade vehicles (say Leaman Russ or Predator).
The idea is that we know that the IOM has STCs that are capable of allowing it to manufacture equipment from just about anything.

I know this is probably the worst possible source but I can't find my codex right not so:

http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/STC

The STC system was an evolved computer designed to provide construction details for colonists. Each group of colonists carried such a system. It enabled the colonists to build efficient shelters, generators and transports without any prior knowledge and using almost any locally available materials. The user simply asked how to built a house or a tractor and the computer supplied all the necessary plans.

Now we know that the IOM has templates for their base vehicles and equipment (lasguns, bolters, predator tanks etc.)

Another thing I would want is at least one competent commander. Count him as the company commander of my marines, and several librarians or at least one librarian that can teach the navigator psyhers the minimum required for telepathic communications.

So what I would do is land covertly either physically or via telepathy and make contact with the major forces of the world. All of them, axis and allied alike. I would supply both sides with weapons, equipment and orbital observation and let them fight each other into oblivion. However, I would at all times try to use telepathy and indirect contact as much as possible and include any sort of stealth that I can (as in don't have the chapter master parade through berlin in Hitlers car.)

I don't really care who wins, but if at all possible, I would want the Germans, Japanese or Soviets to hold some 70-80% of the globe, preferably committing as many atrocities as they can to antagonize the world population. The democratic peace loving, freedom spreading powers are to be annihilated as they would provide no such propaganda benefit.


After the war is over, (At least the year 1950 due to my intervening and prolonging it) I would land in force and capture the now decimated population of planet earth. A band of supersoldiers coming down from the sky to clean up the mess and remove the evil dictators that have enslaved humanity would be seen as liberators. And the newly conquered planet would become instantly loyal to the Emperor.


A bit unortodox I know, but I think it would work out.

[Darth Hoth]

Exterminatus is not supposed to be pleasant - it's literally the most extreme sanction in the Imperium's arsenal. Granted I haven't read that particular story, but I presume it was justified, because Exterminatus strikes have to be; and the personal consequences for anyone who orders one that can't be justified would be extreme. The Inquisition doesn't like people who do that.

The explicitly stated purpose was sending a message to other nearby worlds that the Imperium would not tolerate rebellion, and they specifically did not care if the people who were killed were innocent or guilty. In their mind, everyone who lived on a world where there was a Chaos cult was automatically guilty. It was no Tyranid invasion or any such; the planet as such was more or less under control, and afterwards they just crucified and gassed people out of spite before bombarding the surface to cinders, one city at a time. (They used a mass driver that fired statues of the Emperor.) I guess that campaign was commanded by the Grimdark^3 Warhammer version of Commander Tarkin.

Although the Space Marine guy did feel a little uncomfortable with the mass crucifixions and immolations, so I might have been a little harsh on him. He still thought it was the perfectly right and proper thing to do, though, and that it was he who was in the wrong for being too squeamish . . . kind of like the Einsatzgruppen.

Uriel very nearly murders Inquisitor Kryptmann in Warriors of Ultramar for behaving like a complete jackass (specifically, virus bombing a world without (in Uriel's view) good reason and after giving his word that he wouldn't).

That would be the one with the Tyranid invasion, right?

[Ugolino]

Ultramarines? They'd love their "purity". At most, they'd shake their head and tell the Nazis to be more efficient. That, and they're not ruthless enough.

[MKSheppard]

The mission starts out going cautiously well; then goes to fucking hell after you lose quite a few NCOs and officers to snipers, and things spiral out of control after that.

[NecronLord]

Idea that WW2 snipers have a weapon capable of reliably hurting a Space Marine, or that doing so would not result in, in Shep's terms, nukey nukey nukey.

Snrk. Funny.

[MKSheppard]

Snrk. Funny.

I'm sorry; but Space Marines have been shown so many times in 40k Artwork as being unhelmeted, even while in the midst RAR SRS BATTLE -- and this disease seems to occur more frequently the more important a space marine is. So it's entirely possible that the Space Marine Company shows up and tries to be all nice-like, then loses their beloved company sergeant to Major König; and they all go space marine killy on the nazis.

I believe that is covered in my original post under "things spiral out of control after that".

[Shroom Man 777]

The best thing a WW2 sniper can hope for is that his rounds punch through the outer bulletproof bone of the Marine and enter the sinus cavity. Then the Space Marine can do that hacking-thing you do when you suck snot out of the back of your nose and make it go into your mouth, except instead of snot it will be the sniper round. Then the Marine can just spit the round back at the sniper, and since Space Marines are superhuman, that spat-out sniper round will be fast enough to penetrate the sniper's face and since the sniper's face isn't bullet proof, well, the sniper's face explodes.

EDIT:
If the sniper used an anti-tank gun, the Marine will have to use a hanky

[Simon_Jester]

Eh, dunno.

One thing to remember is that a lot of the artwork is deliberately iconographic: it's "art depicting" the battle, not a photorealistic image of the battle. Thus the lack of helmets.

In the written material, Space Marines are a lot better about remembering to wear their helmets, at least in most chapters.