how would you redo the prequals

[Havok]

Wait a second... Anakin has trouble 'letting go of his mom' because he, a 9 year old kid, runs back to her teary eyed for a hug and a reassuring word before he leaves and doesn't get to see her again for who knows how long? Raynor, you are fucking nuts.

[Darth Yan]

leaving a parent is difficult if it's for long periods of time. And besides, the films make it clear that unrestrained anger is bad. restrained and controlled anger isn't as destructive. anakin's anger led to him getting cocky, and that resulted in him getting delimbed. Obi's anger briefly served him during his fight with maul, but then when the surge ran out he got his ass kicked and barely won the final duel.

As cheesy as TOTJ was, it did show this admirably as any of the films; ulic's uncontrolled rage leads him to murder Satal Keto (the guy responsible for his mentor's death) even though satal is disarmed and defenseless. It causes his fall to the darkside, because to be honest, his unrestrained rage led to him committing cold blooded murder.

[Darth Yan]

the rots novel makes it clear that controlled anger is fine; unrestrained wrath and hate are not. Luke couldn't usher in the controlled kind because at the end of the day, vader was still has father, and luke was idealistic enough to believe that there was still good in him. It was risky but it did pay off. I'd still love to see a rebuttal of lop eared dipshit.

[Jim Raynor]

Wait a second... Anakin has trouble 'letting go of his mom' because he, a 9 year old kid, runs back to her teary eyed for a hug and a reassuring word before he leaves and doesn't get to see her again for who knows how long? Raynor, you are fucking nuts.

I'm not exactly reaching with that one, because the movie was completely unambiguous about it. It went so far as to have the Jedi use their psychic powers and tell us so.

[jollyreaper]

Episode one.

Ideally it would be nothing like what we saw, but if we are trying to salvage elements of the original plot...

Reposting thoughts I had on it a while ago:

* Completely remove the entire Gungan species from Naboo
* Completely remove the entire Tattoine segments of the film, including the Pod Race.
* MAKE THE DROID ARMIES ACTUALLY MENACING. The droids were lamo comic relief in the film, and they totally undermined the tension from looking stupid, being totally useless and making "funny" dialogue.
* Make Annakin an ACTUAL PILOT, none of this 8 year old pod racing wonder boy garbage. Obi Wan said Annakin was a "great pilot" when he met him, so lets stick with that.
* Remove the Annakin being miraculously conceived garbage, have him be the love child of a powerful Jedi Master or something.

As far as the overarching plot goes, there's nothing inherently wrong with the mystery plot about the Sith and some political stuff.

* Qui Gon and Obi Wan switch places in the story, with Obi Wan being eager and adventurous, and Qui Gon being extremely reserved and set in his ways. Instead of Qui Gon wanting to train Annakin, it would be Obi Wan who did against his Master's wishes.

* Make Annakin like, 17 or 18 years old. Then the audience isn't creeped out when people talk about an 8 year old boy being "too old". This also helps out with some Ep 2 stuff.

* Make the Queen like 17, minimum.

Annakin would be introduced to the plot when they need a daring pilot to blow past the Trade Federation blockade. He's a new pilot in the Naboo defense force, but is never-the-less skilled, and the Jedi sense the force is strong with him.

* Obi Wan is like, 20 or 21, nearly at the end of his training.

* There needs to be an explanation of some kind for why 99% of the Trade Federation Ships just up and left when they came back from Coruscant.

Anyway the rest happens pretty standard, Annakin rallies the pilots who think it can't be done and leads the attack on the Control ship. Darth Maul kills Qui Gon on the planet, then Obi Wan gets worked up and kills him. None of this keeping his composure with flawless choreography, I want some actual emotion.

Finally,

* Qui Gon doesn't want the boy trained, but Obi Wan lies to the council and tells them that he agreed and did want him trained.

IMO, this lends better to the character, because it adds a bit of depth to Obi Wan, who is otherwise basically a conservative, emotionless robot.

I think that having Annakin be only a few years younger than Obi Wan adds believability to the resentment that Annakin feels regarding Obi Wan "holding him back", since he's basically got to look up on and respect somebody the same age as him.

All really sound ideas. I like the bit about lying to the Council, really drives home Obi-Wan's hubris, a fine Greek character flaw. Could explain why he didn't try training Luke and only did so when he saw the war was unavoidable.

The changes I would make in addition to that are as follows:

1. Jedi are too aloof and complacent. They are haughty and consider petty politics beneath them, not realizing this is really an abdication of their responsibility to be leaders and teachers.

2. Old Republic is genuinely suffering from corruption and greed. The problems are significant enough that everyone can admit to them, they just differ in opinion on how to resolve them.

3. The Clone War is nixed, it's the Colonial War. Clone War sounds and is stupid. The Colonial War is about periphery systems -- i.e. the colonies -- trying to establish political and economic independence from the core worlds that founded them.

4. The Colonials are the rebels, the "good guys" are with the loyalists, trying to preserve the Republic.

5. Palpatine is a territorial governor and not yet a Sith.

6. Rebellion is made up of numerous independent efforts across many systems.

6. Charismatic Force user -- not a Jedi or a Sith -- is putting these rebels together into a proper alliance.

7. Charismatic Force user tries to seduce Palpatine into joining him. He shows Palpatine the door and says if he's willing to enter, he will be trained personally by the leader. Gives him texts to read.

8. First movie's main plot is about taking out this leader. The showdown sees Obi-Wan killing the force user hoping that this will end the rebellion. It won't. The Force user tells Obi-Wan "If you strike me down, I shall become more powerful than you can possibly imagine." Obi-Wan says he does not understand. "You will." Obi-Wan kills him.

9. Second movie, Palpatine is building his powers, more pragmatic than evil. War has been going on for years, ends in this movie. Anakin is a warrior now and apprentice still to Obi-Wan. War ends and we believe there will be peace.

10. Third movie, the war is over and the Republic has returned to destroying itself. Anakin is bitterly disillusioned. Palpatine is likewise disgusted and has moved to pure contempt for his fellow beings. He decides to seize power by working from within the system. As a hero of the last war, he becomes a good prospect for election to dictator, a temporary position for the duration of the latest crisis. He enlists the aid of Anakin whom he met in the last movie and was impressed by. Anakin's feelings here are that he still wants to do good whereas Palpatine himself fully accepts that he himself just wants power.

11. The whole process of gathering power is all too easy. The Jedi are blind to the threat. By the time the leaders of the Republic come to see Palpatine as a threat, they resort to illegal methods to thwart him, thus seeming to cement their evil in the eyes of many. Anakin makes some fairly dark choices that puts him directly into conflict with Obi-Wan and they have their fight. Obi-Wan gravely injures Anakin but the course of battle prevents him from making sure. Anakin is rescued by Palpatine and leaves the story at this point.

12. The Jedi pogrom begins and is lead by a Jedi warrior unknown to anyone, a Darth Vader. Knowledge of the Sith is not public and only the inner core of the Jedi know that Darth is a Sith title, a taunt directed at them by Palpatine and his apprentice. Palpy's sith powers remain unknown and he is assumed to be merely a dictator bent on ultimate power over the galaxy.

The plot hole that's difficult to account for is why Obi-Wan wouldn't try to train Luke as a Jedi. Splitting up the twins makes sense but you'd think that Leia would be sent with another surviving master for training as well. Not training Luke would make sense if force powers are not hereditary and there's no expectation that Luke and Leia would be powerful Jedi just because their father was.

Oh, and since droid armies are technologically feasible in this universe but make for poor drama, maybe include background info that explains why combat droids are considered a cultural anathema. Maybe a war further in the past that saw both sides using combat droids and it was so horrific nobody ever dared use them again. The way poison gas was used in WWI but never used in WWII. The way you'd have a hard time convincing the Japanese to develop nuclear weapons today even though they have the means to do so.

[jollyreaper]

The Jedi - The Jedi are an ancient order of Force-users allied with the Republic and devoted to the Light Side of the Force. They aren't the only Force-users in the galaxy, but they are one of the most famous. Their numbers have dwindled in recent times, as they devote themselves to travelling the galaxy and putting down small, local problems instead of guarding the Senate and the Chancellor as they once did. Their strict rules and idealism, along with their declining galactic prominence, have resulted in their numbers dwindling; they're seen as making too many rigid demands in exchange for too little fame or glory for potential members. The Jedi have long opposed clone armies, exhorting the people of the Republic to join its military to defend it. When the next Clone War starts, the Republic will demand the Jedi accept command of clone troops. The Jedi will do so, but will also recruit non-clones into their service as they have always done.

I think that the other thing is that there should be the temples devoted to Jedi teaching and who engage in the high politics as well as the questing Jedi who are out doing good in the galaxy. Fits with the wuxia/wild west trope nicely. The questing Jedi are out in the world, righting wrongs and bringing justice. This would explain how Jedi can gain military rank such as General Kenobi, could become trusted advisers to great rulers, or appear as little more than humble traveling beggars who have surprising powers. These are the Jedi who create the good reputation of the Order while the ones sitting in the temples practicing politics are the ones who are sewing the seeds for the Order's fall.

I'm also partial to the idea of there being many competing Force traditions but them all getting unified under the banner of the Jedi, possibly because of wars with the Sith long ago. This would also explain the weakening of the Jedi because there's no room for questioning or dissent. I like casting the failure of the Jedi as similar to the failure of the Catholic Church, people thinking good things about the priests and missionaries working in the field but horrified with the corruption and greed inside the Vatican.

[Tychu]

I will set down one thing in iron: For the first, the clones will not be the Republic's army (or, at the very, very least, not its regular army), and they will not be based on Boba Fett fanwank Jango Fett. Nor will they be the straight predecessors of the Stormtroopers.

"Clone Wars" it was. It cannot be said any plainer that the war was fought against the clones, not by them.

I have to agree with the following post. Though I originally thought of the Clone Wars differently then the final product but "The Clone Wars" is a fitting title. The War is fought mainly by Clones on both sides. The Droids are really clones of themselves and the war is actually the Clone's War.

My problem with the Prequels (I've said it before) is that since it is already set in stone what has to happen, we already know what is going to happen to these characters. George Lucas is forced to play out events a certain way. Another problem is that the Jedi are made out to look like idiots. If you read all the Clone Wars books and comics as well the Jedi are always searching for Darth Sidious. How could they be that dumb to not know that Palpatine is the Sith Lord? They know that there is a Dark Shadow over the force and that it is eminating from the Senate. Anakin is the biggest idiot of all, he's old enough not to be blind by love why can't he realize that Palpatine is playing him as a fool in the final conversations in RotS?

I could go on but my biggest problems with the Prequels is how the Jedi and the Republic fell

[Jim Raynor]

How could they be that dumb to not know that Palpatine is the Sith Lord? They know that there is a Dark Shadow over the force and that it is eminating from the Senate.

They suspect the Senate, which is why in both AOTC and ROTS they are distrustful of it. Of course they didn't see that it was Palpatine himself, but the movie would end way too soon if they did. Apparently, Palpatine was extremely good at using the Dark Side to cloud the Jedi's senses.

Anakin is the biggest idiot of all, he's old enough not to be blind by love why can't he realize that Palpatine is playing him as a fool in the final conversations in RotS?

He was in a state of physical and emotional trauma, having just been hacked to pieces by Obi-Wan. The last time he even saw Padme, he was strangling her. Now, she was indeed dead. Anakin had already shown himself to be completely irrational when dealing with Padme before. He was indeed blinded.

[Adam Reynolds]

They suspect the Senate, which is why in both AOTC and ROTS they are distrustful of it. Of course they didn't see that it was Palpatine himself, but the movie would end way too soon if they did. Apparently, Palpatine was extremely good at using the Dark Side to cloud the Jedi's senses.

Also it seems to be the case that the Jedi are not as able to do a conventional investigation in the same way as modern law enforcement. They seem to rely too much on the Force to the point of degrading their ability to conduct a normal investigation.

[Darth Yan]

they actually do one in Labyrinth of evil; sidious actually stepped up his plans to derail the investigation (most of the investigators died in the battle of coruscant.)

[JME2]

they actually do one in Labyrinth of evil; sidious actually stepped up his plans to derail the investigation (most of the investigators died in the battle of coruscant.)

That was a minor thing that always bugged me about the ROTS novelization, that the Jedi never followed up on the fate of Captain Dyne's team after they had left them at 500 Republica. Granted, their focus was elsewhere and there was the chaos of the battle's aftermath, but a brief mention that they had disappeared without a trace and the Jedi couldn't find them would have been nice.