Roger Ebert: Put Up or Shut Up

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Aaron
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Roger Ebert: Put Up or Shut Up

Post by Aaron »

Linky

Apologies in advance, I'm not sure if this belongs in N&P or OT.
Ebert wrote: We already know the numbers. Pew finds that 18% of Americans believe President Obama is a Muslim. A new Newsweek poll, taken after the controversy over the New York mosque, places that figure at 24%. Even if he's not a Muslim, Newsweek finds, 31 percent think it's "definitely or probably" true that Obama "sympathizes with the goals of Islamic fundamentalists who want to impose Islamic law around the world."

When the focus is narrowed to Republicans, a Harris poll finds 57 percent of party members believe he is a Muslim, 22% believe he "wants the terrorists to win," and 24% believe he is the Antichrist.

These figures sadden me with the depth of thoughtlessness and credulity they imply. A democracy depends on an informed electorate to survive. An alarming number of Americans and a majority of Republicans are misinformed. The man who was swept into office by a decisive majority is now considered by many citizens to be the enemy. Some fundamentalists believe he is the Antichrist named by Jesus in the Bible.

This many Americans did not arrive at such conclusions on their own. They were persuaded by a relentless process of insinuation, strategic silence and cynical misinformation. Most of the leaders in this process have been cautious to avoid actually saying Obama is a Muslim. They speak in coded words and allow the implications to sink in. I recently watched Glenn Beck speaking at great length about Obama's Muslim father, but you would not have learned from Beck that the father, who Obama met only once, was not a practicing Muslim in any sense.


Rush Limbaugh has told his listeners he can find "no evidence" that Obama is a Christian. In Paul Krugman's op-ed column in the New York Times on 8/29, Limbaugh is quoted: "Imam Hussein Obama, is probably the best anti-American president we've ever had." Limbaugh obviously doesn't believe Obama is an imam. How many of his listeners realize that? Is he concerned that his words will be taken seriously?

These opinions have an agenda. They seek to demonize the Obama Presidency and mainstream liberal politics in general. The conservatism they prefer is not the traditional conservatism of such figures as Taft, Nixon, Reagan, Buckley or Goldwater. It is a frightening new radical fringe movement, financed by such as the newly notorious billionaire Koch brothers, whose hatred of government extends even to opposition to tax funding for public schools.

The money behind the movement has been shaken in its boots by the recent exposure of criminal activities in the money markets. Our economy has collapsed and it seemed clear to many Americans that the unregulated greed of Wall Street trading, especially in derivatives, was responsible. These were not investments in industry, the economy or the future. They were investments in a bold Ponzi scheme which defrauded home owners into fronting for a pyramid of worthless loans. Citizens lost their homes, investment houses went bankrupt, but the criminals responsible continued to pay themselves multi-million-dollar bonuses.

From the same column by Krugman: "Wall Street has turned on Mr. Obama with a vengeance: last month Steve Schwarzman, the billionaire chairman of the Blackstone Group, the private equity giant, compared proposals to end tax loopholes for hedge fund managers with the Nazi invasion of Poland."

Say what? Proposals to end loopholes? Read that again. Our recession and the collapse of the housing and jobs markets squeezed through those loopholes. And if you agree with the Democratic attempts to close them, you are compared to Hitler? Republicans in Washington vote nearly as a block against financial reform. Shouldn't the implications be clear to an informed electorate?

This process may soon be arriving at a moment of truth. The new issue of Vanity Fair mentions in its profile of Sarah Palin, as a casual aside, that Glenn Beck has booked the Dena'ina Center, the largest venue in Anchorage, for the date of September 11, 2010. What do you think that means? It could mean Beck simply wants to hold a rally in the home state of the woman who shared his podium on the steps of the Lincoln Memorial on the anniversary of Martin Luther King's famous speech.

Beck says he chose that date without realizing its significance. But it cannot be a coincidence that he has chosen 9/11. Nor does it take special insight to connect that date with Palin's many statements about the "Ground Zero Mosque" and the even more pointed "9/11 Mosque." The association is obvious: "9/11" feeds into "mosque" feeds into "Muslims" feeds into the misperception that Obama is a Muslim. Beck and Palin speak about "taking back America." The buried message is that they will take it back from Muslims. This is a heartless misuse of the tragedy of 9/11 and its victims.


If Beck had planned to come to Anchorage on another date, it wouldn't have excited much notice. But any meeting in Alaska on 9/11 without Palin also present will be anticlimactic. It's too far to go not to feature her. The symbolic date of 9/11 invests this event with the inescapable possibility that he and Palin plan to announce their Presidential candidacy for 2012.

This is their privilege, and is not exactly unexpected. What is inescapable, given the timing, is that their candidacy would benefit from the paranoia already infecting so many Americans about Obama's fictitious Islamic religion. Palin and Beck have so far both been content to let this process work without specific comment on their part. Their silence is a symptom of a cancer infecting American democracy. Our political immune system has only one antibody, and that is the truth.

The time is here for responsible Americans to put up or shut up. I refer specifically to those who have credibility among the guileless and credulous citizens who have been infected with notions so carefully nurtured. We cannot afford to allow the next election to proceed under a cloud of falsehood and delusion.

We know, because they've said so publicly, that George W. Bush, his father and Sen. John McCain do not believe Obama is a Muslim. This is the time -- now, not later -- for them to repeat that belief in a joint statement. Other prominent Republicans such as Mitt Romney, Newt Gingrich and Ron Paul also certainly do not believe it. They have a responsibility to make that clear by subscribing to the statement. Glenn Beck, Sarah Palin and Rush Limbaugh must join, or let their silence indict them. Limbaugh in particular must cease his innuendos and say, flat out, whether he believes the President is a Muslim or not. Yes or no. Does he have evidence, or does he have none? Yes or no.

To do anything less at this troubled time in our history would be a crime against America.


[ 11:39 p.m. 9/1/1010: Many readers have made the same point: What if Obama were a Muslim? What would be wrong with that? There would be nothing wrong. There is no religious test in this nation for holders of office. This is not a "Christian nation," although you often hear that, because of what is specified in the Constitution. America was founded by refugees from religious persecution, and the Founding Fathers deliberately wrote in safeguards to prevent an Established Religion.
Personally I find the footnote the most interesting. Why does it matter if Obama is Muslim or not? And why would it be wrong if he is? Perhaps the US ought to decide what it wants to be, and now seems like a fine time to figure it out.
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Re: Robert Ebert: Put Up or Shut Up

Post by Dalton »

This just proves the point that those who claim to support the Constitution haven't actually read it - they know only the Constitution as filtered through countless politicians, pundits and media networks.
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Re: Robert Ebert: Put Up or Shut Up

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If they are serious, if Ebert is right, if he's fucking right that Sara Palin and Glenn Beck are running for the Presidency as some sort of unholy President/Vice President group... I'm not sure I could deal with that... seriously. I'm not sure I could mentally process that. It might be off to the funny farm with me because obviously I've been traded in my own little world for the past few years and have not know it. Let me just hope it's what we expected and that's Palin announcing her run with Glenn Beck and a friendly crowd to give her a great start.

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Re: Robert Ebert: Put Up or Shut Up

Post by The Romulan Republic »

Mr Bean wrote:If they are serious, if Ebert is right, if he's fucking right that Sara Palin and Glenn Beck are running for the Presidency as some sort of unholy President/Vice President group... I'm not sure I could deal with that... seriously. I'm not sure I could mentally process that. It might be off to the funny farm with me because obviously I've been traded in my own little world for the past few years and have not know it. Let me just hope it's what we expected and that's Palin announcing her run with Glenn Beck and a friendly crowd to give her a great start.
I think the leaps Mr. Ebert makes regarding the implications of the date and location of this meeting strain credulity. That said, this is a possibility.

The good news is, such a ticket would almost certainly suffer one of the most decisive electoral defeats in history. I would honestly kind of expect an Obama victory in the 60/40 range.

The bad news is that it would signal the death of a major, credible political opposition in America (though its been going that way for a while). Also, given the fanaticism of their base and the kind of rhetoric that would probably be employed, this might well be the ugliest, most violent campaign since the Civil War.

And of course, there's the horrible possibility that they might somehow, against all sanity and plausibility, win.
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Re: Robert Ebert: Put Up or Shut Up

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The Romulan Republic wrote:
Mr Bean wrote:If they are serious, if Ebert is right, if he's fucking right that Sara Palin and Glenn Beck are running for the Presidency as some sort of unholy President/Vice President group... I'm not sure I could deal with that... seriously. I'm not sure I could mentally process that. It might be off to the funny farm with me because obviously I've been traded in my own little world for the past few years and have not know it. Let me just hope it's what we expected and that's Palin announcing her run with Glenn Beck and a friendly crowd to give her a great start.
I think the leaps Mr. Ebert makes regarding the implications of the date and location of this meeting strain credulity. That said, this is a possibility.

The good news is, such a ticket would almost certainly suffer one of the most decisive electoral defeats in history. I would honestly kind of expect an Obama victory in the 60/40 range.

The bad news is that it would signal the death of a major, credible political opposition in America (though its been going that way for a while). Also, given the fanaticism of their base and the kind of rhetoric that would probably be employed, this might well be the ugliest, most violent campaign since the Civil War.

And of course, there's the horrible possibility that they might somehow, against all sanity and plausibility, win.
They'd have to get through the preliminaries first, and Palin wouldn't have McCain's coattails to ride. A halfway competent Republican candidate could slaughter them with all the baggage those two assclowns have. (Unless they announced themselves as Teabagger candidates . . . which would be interesting.)
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Re: Robert Ebert: Put Up or Shut Up

Post by spaceviking »

I kind of want to see Glen Beck run just for the spectacle of the democrat/republican debate, maybe they will let him bring his dry erase board.
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Re: Robert Ebert: Put Up or Shut Up

Post by Count Chocula »

Don't know about Rush, but Glenn Beck has not called Obama a Muslim. He has said that Obama's words (especially at the Ramadan dinner last month about the Cordoba mosque) seem to indicate he is favoring them. Obama's father is a Muslim, which (at least according to Muslims) means he's Muslim. NASA's administrator said his foremost mission is to improve relations with the Muslim world, at Obama's urging. He went to school in Indonesia for a while as a child. His half-brother's a devout Muslim. The Pakistani Minister of State for Industries called for Obama to become Caliph. Hell, his first TV interview was on Al-Arabiya, not ABCBSNBC. It's enough to confuse anyone! But (oh pesky fact) he attended Pastor Wright's Christian church. So, no.

And even if he's a Muslim, so what? As long as he doesn't try to have us follow the Koran, or implement Sharia law, it doesn't matter. To the crazy beard Muslims, half of the Muslim world is infidel anyway because they don't practice Sharia law or stone their women.

I'm guessing that the 9/11 date is deliberate, and the event will be an America-Fuck-Yeah!-fest, and not some "we're running for the White House in '12" campaign launch like Ebert seems to think. Ebert's completely wrong on the 8/28 event Beck had, too: he chose that date because he couldn't book the Kennedy Center for any other date in August, and didn't want to do it Labor Day weekend. The only part of Ebert's column that didn't strike me as a typical left/liberal "viewing with alarm" piece was the poll results. Some people are dumb. Some people look at surface items and not facts. Some people reach opinions based solely on what their preferred media outlet says. Film at 11.
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Re: Robert Ebert: Put Up or Shut Up

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sharia law is actually complex to the point where muslims have argued about it for centuries.
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Re: Robert Ebert: Put Up or Shut Up

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And lo, Chocula stampedes into the thread with the might of a hundred stallions to defend the Tea Baggers and their asininity. I really have to question why any sane, self-concerned economic conservative would want to associate themselves with such collectivists. Implicit in questioning Obama's Christianity is the statement, "He isn't one of us." And, of course, the emphasis is on the us, the we, the group, the collective, the conglomerate. It gives the lie to the insane idea that these are the defenders of individualism in American politics.
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Re: Robert Ebert: Put Up or Shut Up

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I really, really hope Palin will run. Because it will provide the Democrats with an easy victory.

That said, I doubt Beck will run himself. He makes far too much money right now, I really doubt he will exchange that for a job where he actually has to do hard work. Him announcing Palin's intention to run - yeah, I can see that.
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Re: Robert Ebert: Put Up or Shut Up

Post by The Romulan Republic »

Thanas wrote:I really, really hope Palin will run. Because it will provide the Democrats with an easy victory.
You know, I'm one of those people who just can't share such sentiments, both because there's always that "what if" where she actually wins, and because it would probably be one of the most dirty, ugly, and possibly violent campaigns in recent American history.
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Re: Robert Ebert: Put Up or Shut Up

Post by Thanas »

The Romulan Republic wrote:
Thanas wrote:I really, really hope Palin will run. Because it will provide the Democrats with an easy victory.
You know, I'm one of those people who just can't share such sentiments, both because there's always that "what if" where she actually wins, and because it would probably be one of the most dirty, ugly, and possibly violent campaigns in recent American history.
So what? Better to expose her and the teabaggers as the lunatics they are now instead of letting her cash in on this for the next ten years. The goal is to get moderate people to see that she is a whackjob and an election campaign would easily do that.
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Re: Robert Ebert: Put Up or Shut Up

Post by The Romulan Republic »

If they haven't figured it out yet, they're probably not likely to. The world got a pretty good look at what sort of person she is over the last couple years.
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Re: Robert Ebert: Put Up or Shut Up

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The Romulan Republic wrote:If they haven't figured it out yet, they're probably not likely to. The world got a pretty good look at what sort of person she is over the last couple years.
Hate to break it to you - but most people do not know the nasty stuff about her. Most just see her on TV, where there is virtually nothing bad on her.
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Re: Robert Ebert: Put Up or Shut Up

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For election possibilities? Only in the mind of the insane. Consider that the 2008 campaign and given her relatively light and tiny exposure that brought out so little, bolstered with a candidate that at least had a record, against a greenhorn? She did abyssmal but got a fanbase amongst the ones who wanted her.

Push her now into the whole year long process? I'm sure, we'll have some story of her eating babies with only her fanbase still in love with her.

As for the story, it just highlights how fucking stupid some people are given these were likely the same fucking retards disliking Obama's church of choice back in 08.
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Re: Robert Ebert: Put Up or Shut Up

Post by Terralthra »

Can someone change the thread title? His name is Roger Ebert.
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Re: Robert Ebert: Put Up or Shut Up

Post by Aaron »

Huh, how the fuck did I manage that? :oops:
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Re: Robert Ebert: Put Up or Shut Up

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Count Chocula wrote:Don't know about Rush, but Glenn Beck has not called Obama a Muslim.
Sure, because before he spouts all the tripe that suggests to the viewers that Obama is a Muslim, he says "I haven't made my mind up about this but" or somesuch bullshit. Which means he is totally innocent if people take away the message that Obama is a Muslim!

Fuck you for buying into and defending his weaselly semantics, Chocula.
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Re: Robert Ebert: Put Up or Shut Up

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Count Chocula wrote:Don't know about Rush, but Glenn Beck has not called Obama a Muslim.
It's funny you pay people out for listening to the media, but the whole fucking point of this article (in case you missed it) is that they AREN'T coming out and saying it. They're hinting, being strategically silent, joining ideas, and allowing the dots to be connected in the minds of listeners. That's the WHOLE POINT.

Can you even fucking READ?
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Re: Robert Ebert: Put Up or Shut Up

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Count Chocula wrote:Don't know about Rush, but Glenn Beck has not called Obama a Muslim. He has said that Obama's words (especially at the Ramadan dinner last month about the Cordoba mosque) seem to indicate he is favoring them.
Oh, that motherfucker! He favours not infringing people's rights! Can't you yanks impeach him over that?
Count Chocula wrote:Obama's father is a Muslim, which (at least according to Muslims) means he's Muslim.
Nope! Obama's dad was an atheist. Originally a muslim, but later an atheist. So, that would make Obama the child of an apostate.
Count Chocula wrote:NASA's administrator said his foremost mission is to improve relations with the Muslim world, at Obama's urging.


"It is a matter of trying to reach out and get the best of all worlds, if you will, and there is much to be gained by drawing in the contributions that are possible from the Muslim (nations)," he said. He held up the International Space Station as a model, praising the contributions there from the Russians and the Chinese. "
Count Chocula wrote:His half-brother's a devout Muslim.
His father was an atheist as I've said and his mother was an agnostic/atheist. I would say they had much more influence on his life than a half-brother.
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Re: Robert Ebert: Put Up or Shut Up

Post by GrandMasterTerwynn »

kouchpotato wrote:
Count Chocula wrote:Obama's father is a Muslim, which (at least according to Muslims) means he's Muslim.
Nope! Obama's dad was an atheist. Originally a muslim, but later an atheist. So, that would make Obama the child of an apostate.
The notion that a godless apostate could be President of the United States just doesn't compute with those sorts of people. To them, atheists are merely tree-hugging Darwinist cranks and aberrations who don't amount to much. To them, when they think that Obama is secretly something, it's going to be an Abrahamic religion. Since he's a half black man, and has a middle name like "Hussein," that means he's got to be a ZOMG Manchurian Candidate for Al Q'aeda!

The sad thing, of course, is that there's no way anyone who doesn't nominally describe themselves as Christian, is likely to be electable as President of the United States in my lifetime . . . and that's an improvement! Hell, not fifty years ago, some Americans were spazzing out over the fact that one John F. Kennedy was a Catholic.
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Re: Roger Ebert: Put Up or Shut Up

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Mr Bean wrote:If they are serious, if Ebert is right, if he's fucking right that Sara Palin and Glenn Beck are running for the Presidency as some sort of unholy President/Vice President group... I'm not sure I could deal with that... seriously. I'm not sure I could mentally process that. It might be off to the funny farm with me because obviously I've been traded in my own little world for the past few years and have not know it. Let me just hope it's what we expected and that's Palin announcing her run with Glenn Beck and a friendly crowd to give her a great start.
Palin may well be announcing a 2012 run. Beck is probably not running alongside her.
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Re: Roger Ebert: Put Up or Shut Up

Post by Pelranius »

Someone ought to start a fanfic about Sarah Palin becoming POTUS in 2012 or 2016, and see how bad things could go from there (not me, I'm working on some AH and also a Batman Returns/It's Always Sunny in Philadelphia crossover).

I can't see her announcing Beck as her running mate on 9/11/10 though. The primaries and conventions are a long ways off, and often the VP slot could be used for to horsetrade for political favors, something which Palin is definitely political enough to understand.
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Re: Roger Ebert: Put Up or Shut Up

Post by Alphawolf55 »

About Palin winning in 2012, I don't know, it would go along with 2012 predictions. I mean, the world was suppose to end in 2000 and Bush got elected.
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Re: Roger Ebert: Put Up or Shut Up

Post by RedImperator »

Beck has a 30 year broadcasting career behind him, much of it spent as a morning drive time zoo host. If there isn't some awful statement in there that would sink a national campaign before it got started, I'll eat my hat.

Anyway, nobody announces VP candidates before the primaries, let alone two years before the primaries. And this is assuming Sarah Palin is actually planning to announce a presidential run, which I don't believe anyway.
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