Are teenage pregnancies hurting American culture?

[Superman]

What do you guys think? The statistics do seem to bear out the fact that teenage mothers are more likely to remain on welfare, stay uneducated, use drugs, etc., but what do you think?

[Darth Wong]

Teen pregnancies are bad, but the cause/effect relationship is not clear. They may be a symptom of social problems rather than a cause.

Yes, teen mothers tend to be on welfare, white-trash, etc. But conversely, white-trash teens on welfare are much more likely to become teen mothers. Chicken and egg.

[Superman]

Agreed. No causation has, or really can be, established.

[Stormbringer]

Teen pregnancies are bad, but the cause/effect relationship is not clear. They may be a symptom of social problems rather than a cause.

Actually, they're simply both. Most teen mother come from some sort of emotionally flawed home setting (ofter broken or single parent families) themselves. But a teen mothers themselves are more likely to produce maladjusted kids which in turn are more likely to engage in teen sex with the obvious results.

Yes, teen mothers tend to be on welfare, white-trash, etc. But conversely, white-trash teens on welfare are much more likely to become teen mothers. Chicken and egg.

That's about it. It's a cyclical behaviour like so many destructive societal problems (gangs, domestic abuse, etc)

[InnerBrat]

Biologically, childhood is becoming shorter and shorter. One study i read said boys are becoming sexually mature at about 13, now. Another said that about 20% of girls are starting their periods before 12.
We have emotional children running around with adult genatalia and hormones.

Add to that the taboo on sex education - for some reason people seem to think that teaching a girl what a condom is will get her pregnant ....?
My sis is a biology teacher. She has to teach kids reporductive biology from KS2 (yrs 6-7, ages 10-11) but can't mention contraception until GCSE (yrs 10-11, ages 15-16) - and parents can opt their child out if they want.

Personally, I will always blame a lack of education on social issues like this.

[Superman]

Well innerbrat, you know, if we start teaching these kids about sex education... they might just start having sex.

That was sarcasm.

[Stormbringer]

Personally, I will always blame a lack of education on social issues like this.

Innerbrat, I don't think there's anyway ignorance can be the sole or even primary cause for it. No girl is so ignorant to think that getting knocked up at 15 doesn't carry a risk of pregnancy. It's more complicated than mere ignorance.

[InnerBrat]

Personally, I will always blame a lack of education on social issues like this.

Innerbrat, I don't think there's anyway ignorance can be the sole or even primary cause for it. No girl is so ignorant to think that getting knocked up at 15 doesn't carry a risk of pregnancy. It's more complicated than mere ignorance.

First off nitpick - knocked up means getting pregnant.

Secondly, of course it's more complicated, but I doubt teenagers who shag want to be parents. Basic knowledge of birth control techniques, and the hassles of child rearing would help.
Additionally, a girl who thinks she has a decent future in the academic sense is less likely to want to be a teen mother than someone who doesn't think she has a shot of graduating high school...

[Stormbringer]

First off nitpick - knocked up means getting pregnant.

I've heard it as a love 'em and leave thing or pregnant. Whatever.

Secondly, of course it's more complicated, but I doubt teenagers who shag want to be parents. Basic knowledge of birth control techniques, and the hassles of child rearing would help.

A lot of the girls that getting pregnant are simply those that don't care. If they really were worried about pregnancy they wouldn't be fucking at 15, or would at least use birht control. If she really took it seriously this stuff isn't to hard to look up, especially in today's world. Most teen mothers (and fathers) simply don't think or care about the consequences. It's a case "Can't Happen to Me" Syndrome.

Additionally, a girl who thinks she has a decent future in the academic sense is less likely to want to be a teen mother than someone who doesn't think she has a shot of graduating high school...

Of course, but they have the same educational oppurtunities as alm ost everyone else. Anyone has a shot at acutally graduating. A girl that decides she can't or won't clearly has issues way beyong anything schools could possibly be responsible for. That's something parents (or as is often the case a parent) need to be responsible for. That's something far beyond the scope of merely an education.

[Rubberanvil]

Stormbringer you are forgetting the male half of the equation.

[Stormbringer]

Stormbringer you are forgetting the male half of the equation.

No, men just don't get pregnant. And ultimately a woman is responsible for her pregancy (excepting rape). The male half of the equation is certainly something to consider but it's a much more complicated thing and has a lot less bearing on the topic anyways.

[AdmiralKanos]

Actually, there are a lot of kids who honestly have no clue about contraception. Sex education is critical, and I agree with innerbrat on this one. I've seen TV interviews with kids who think that if you go to the bathroom right after sex, you won't get pregnant (I'm not making this up).

[Raoul Duke, Jr.]

Biologically, childhood is becoming shorter and shorter. One study i read said boys are becoming sexually mature at about 13, now. Another said that about 20% of girls are starting their periods before 12.
We have emotional children running around with adult genatalia and hormones.

Add to that the taboo on sex education - for some reason people seem to think that teaching a girl what a condom is will get her pregnant ....?
My sis is a biology teacher. She has to teach kids reporductive biology from KS2 (yrs 6-7, ages 10-11) but can't mention contraception until GCSE (yrs 10-11, ages 15-16) - and parents can opt their child out if they want.

Personally, I will always blame a lack of education on social issues like this.

It also has a lot to do with the urge for gratification and a lack of personal responsibility, IMHO. In modern America, if something isn't fun, by and large, we're not going to do it. And of course, we have to have our fun Right Now. What comes Later too often is not taken into account.

Technical education on reproduction is important, of course... but kids still seem to have this idea that when Teacher calls it the "Human Reproductive System" what Teacher is really saying is "Human Entertainment System." and the fact that the biology behind it actually has a function is just a footnote.

[TrailerParkJawa]

Teen pregnancies are a burden to society. Rarely does the teen have the resources to raise a child without govt help and the child tends to repeat the life of the mother.

Speaking for my area teen pregnancy is largely a poor black or poor latino problem. Its almost like they just dont care or see it as normal. Poor Chinese kids have much lower teen age birth rates. I tend to think that it is related to family structure. Every Chinese person I know, knows that you JUST DONT come home pregnant. Im not saying it does not happen, but that there is a cultural role to play in rates of pregnancy.

[AdmiralKanos]

Teen pregnancies are a burden to society. Rarely does the teen have the resources to raise a child without govt help and the child tends to repeat the life of the mother.

Speaking for my area teen pregnancy is largely a poor black or poor latino problem. Its almost like they just dont care or see it as normal. Poor Chinese kids have much lower teen age birth rates. I tend to think that it is related to family structure. Every Chinese person I know, knows that you JUST DONT come home pregnant. Im not saying it does not happen, but that there is a cultural role to play in rates of pregnancy.

Asian immigrants are very big on education. You won't find Asians spouting this idiotic right-wing mantra that ignorance of certain subjects can be a good thing.

[Joe]

Well, many fundie parents will raise their children to basically hate sex, be a good Christian by saving it for marriage yadda yadda yadda. Not a healthy world view, for sure, but it least it keeps them from getting pregnant.

[AdmiralKanos]

Well, many fundie parents will raise their children to basically hate sex, be a good Christian by saving it for marriage yadda yadda yadda. Not a healthy world view, for sure, but it least it keeps them from getting pregnant.

At the cost of fucking up their sex lives throughout their entire married lives with these horrid inhibitions and hangups. I think the number of marital problems that are caused by a poor sex life is greatly understated in the psychology field.

This moronic attitude that sex is strictly for reproduction rather than entertainment has to be dealt with. It's like saying that food is strictly for sustenance and not enjoyment. Thorough sex education would solve these problems without all of the social side-effects of widespread sexual hang-ups. The Madonne/Whore complex, for example, is obviously due to sexual hang-ups, and it's cited as the primary cause of a huge number of male/female interaction problems, up to and including abusive behaviour.

[Rubberanvil]

You won't find Asians spouting this idiotic right-wing mantra that ignorance of certain subjects can be a good thing.

Considering the sheer number of Christian Korean churches in 200 km radius where I live, that is impressive.

[InnerBrat]

A lot of the girls that getting pregnant are simply those that don't care. If they really were worried about pregnancy they wouldn't be fucking at 15, or would at least use birht control. If she really took it seriously this stuff isn't to hard to look up, especially in today's world. Most teen mothers (and fathers) simply don't think or care about the consequences. It's a case "Can't Happen to Me" Syndrome.

But I think that hammering it into them that it might would actually have an effect. The reason they don't think about the consequences is often because the adults in their lives have an ostrich approach to sex ed... and the kids just aren't reminded.

Additionally, a girl who thinks she has a decent future in the academic sense is less likely to want to be a teen mother than someone who doesn't think she has a shot of graduating high school...

Of course, but they have the same educational oppurtunities as alm ost everyone else. Anyone has a shot at acutally graduating. A girl that decides she can't or won't clearly has issues way beyong anything schools could possibly be responsible for. That's something parents (or as is often the case a parent) need to be responsible for. That's something far beyond the scope of merely an education.

Yeah, it's a cultural thing as well. But a cultural thing based on the quality of local education (I'm comparing the inner city to the 'burbs here - in a general sense)
A good education can give a teenager more confidence in herself, and thus more ambition to succeed in life before kids.

[Rubberanvil]

No, men just don't get pregnant.

But given how they needed to make females pregnant and dump them as they please. I do find males to be a big part of the problem.

[Illuminatus Primus]

Actually, there are a lot of kids who honestly have no clue about contraception. Sex education is critical, and I agree with innerbrat on this one. I've seen TV interviews with kids who think that if you go to the bathroom right after sex, you won't get pregnant (I'm not making this up).

He's right.

I know girls having sex who thought "withdrawl" was a dependable and useful method.

I know plenty of couples that regularly juggle the girl's cycle so they can have unprotected sex most of the time. One girl I hooked up once suggested this possibility. Needless to say, I'm glad I got away from that.

No, men just don't get pregnant.

But given how they needed to make females pregnant and dump them as they please. I do find males to be a big part of the problem.

Unrealistic sex equality babble. Women need to be responsible for what they do with their bodies. They can cry and complain and condemn the asshole who knocked them up....but more often than not it was really clear what kind of guy this was before anyway.

[Stormbringer]

But I think that hammering it into them that it might would actually have an effect. The reason they don't think about the consequences is often because the adults in their lives have an ostrich approach to sex ed... and the kids just aren't reminded.

You can educate them but you can't make them care. Most teens have that ostrich approach when it comes to the risks they run. Any girl fucking at 15 knows she's risking pregnancy at least

Yeah, it's a cultural thing as well. But a cultural thing based on the quality of local education (I'm comparing the inner city to the 'burbs here - in a general sense)
A good education can give a teenager more confidence in herself, and thus more ambition to succeed in life before kids.

Of course. But there are any number of social factors at work there. The ghettos are the end result of a lot of problems, poor education being just one . You won't take that away, and the resulting problems like teen motherhood, simpyl by making the people educated.

No, men just don't get pregnant.

But given how they needed to make females pregnant and dump them as they please. I do find males to be a big part of the problem.

They are a problem but a woman or girl is ultimately responsible for her own body and they are the own responsible for a the child, one way or the other.

[Joe]

Teen pregnancies are a burden to society. Rarely does the teen have the resources to raise a child without govt help and the child tends to repeat the life of the mother.

Speaking for my area teen pregnancy is largely a poor black or poor latino problem. Its almost like they just dont care or see it as normal. Poor Chinese kids have much lower teen age birth rates. I tend to think that it is related to family structure. Every Chinese person I know, knows that you JUST DONT come home pregnant. Im not saying it does not happen, but that there is a cultural role to play in rates of pregnancy.

Asian immigrants are very big on education. You won't find Asians spouting this idiotic right-wing mantra that ignorance of certain subjects can be a good thing.

Asian culture doesn't really have a history of sexual puritanism, either, or at least not nearly to the extent of Christian culture (I say Christian culture because the founders of Western culture, the Greeks, were quite sexually open).

[Illuminatus Primus]

Asian culture doesn't really have a history of sexual puritanism, either, or at least not nearly to the extent of Christian culture (I say Christian culture because the founders of Western culture, the Greeks, were quite sexually open).

Bzzt. Wrong.

With possibly one or two exceptions, every Asian girl I've ever met has been exceedingly focused on grades as opposed to learning to the point where many of them are socially stunted, and most of them are completely purtianical about sex.

Indians are especially bad in these ways.

However, I will concede that for one reason or another, most Asians do not seem to have the psychological issues surrounding sex that pollutes some groups into adulthood.

[Joe]

Asian culture doesn't really have a history of sexual puritanism, either, or at least not nearly to the extent of Christian culture (I say Christian culture because the founders of Western culture, the Greeks, were quite sexually open).

Bzzt. Wrong.

With possibly one or two exceptions, every Asian girl I've ever met has been exceedingly focused on grades as opposed to learning to the point where many of them are socially stunted, and most of them are completely purtianical about sex.

Indians are especially bad in these ways.

However, I will concede that for one reason or another, most Asians do not seem to have the psychological issues surrounding sex that pollutes some groups into adulthood.

Sexual Puritanism is hatred and hostility towards sex, not placing it low on your list of priorities. From what I know of Asian culture, it doesn't appear to be hostile towards sex, which is what Puritanism is. I think the attitude you're speaking of above is not so much motivated by hatred and disgust of sex as it is by a concern with other things that are considered to be of greater importance than sex.