Australian Federal Election thread - 2010 edition.

[bobalot]

I think the independents will may go to Labor. If they go with the Coalition, the Coalition will go to the polls within a year and one way or another throw the independents back into obscurity.

Where as if they go with Labor, they be holding balance of power for at least a few years. Besides which, Tony Abbott's promise to cancel the NBN didn't go down too well with the independents. It looked like the Liberals ignoring rural Australia again.

[Archaic`]

Both Labor and the Coalition have now made public promises to go full term if the independents support them. Honestly, I'm inclined to trust them, for the same reason that I'm inclined to trust the Coalition to not bring back WorkChoices. Because it'd be political suicide to do so, and no party aims to get itself voted out. Any party forming government with the independents and going quickly to the polls is going to get savaged.

[bobalot]

Both Labor and the Coalition have now made public promises to go full term if the independents support them. Honestly, I'm inclined to trust them, for the same reason that I'm inclined to trust the Coalition to not bring back WorkChoices. Because it'd be political suicide to do so, and no party aims to get itself voted out. Any party forming government with the independents and going quickly to the polls is going to get savaged.

Ah, I wasn't aware of that promise. I still can't bear the thought of Abbott as PM, though. Why couldn't they have stuck with Turnbull? They would have won this in a landslide if it was anybody but Abbott.

WorkChoices was political suicide from the beginning, I always wondered why they decided to go down that road. They would still probably be in power now if it wasn't for WorkChoices.

[Stofsk]

Wait I thought you guys already knew who the victors were.

One thing to note is that this election was really bizarre for the fact that both leaders of the major parties were replaced relatively recently and both are controversial as a result. Had Tony Abbott not replaced Malcolm Turnbull last year, we might be looking at a Coalition government right now that isn't retarded. Or, if that had taken place, Krudd would not have been embarrassed by failing to sign into law an emissions trading scheme - which would have kept his popularity high, so he may well not have been poleaxed by his own party a couple months ago. Unfortunately we can't say either way.

But it's probably the biggest reason why Labor has suffered a major swing against it this election, because a lot of people were really put off by Krudd's ousting. Even my mum, who hates Labor, felt that a Prime Minister deserves better than to be knifed in the back by his own party in his own first term. Not surprisingly, Labor suffered a massacre in Queensland where Krudd is from. I can confidently say that if Rudd hadn't been ousted he would have won this election. So Labor has no one to blame but themselves for this result.

[adam_grif]

Just quoting this for posterity.

Note to 'Muhricans. We'll show you how this is done. Four, maybe five weeks until we vote and we'll know that night who the victors are.

[Lusankya]

Well, actually, we did know the result that night. It's just that the result this time was "hung parliament". Weemadando's mistake was not in the bit where he said "and then we'll know that night", but rather in the part where he assumed there would be a victor.

[adam_grif]

Postal votes etc means we "didn't know" the final result until... well we still don't. I heard that some seats have moved back into "undecided" because postals pushed them back into uncertain territory, but they themselves haven't been fully counted yet. Even with a hung parliament, we don't know who our leaders are going to be until the independents finish waving their dicks around and actually decide to side with someone.

It's just funny that with any election in the past 50 years, the statement would have been entirely appropriate, but just this one time...

[weemadando]

Well, actually, we did know the result that night. It's just that the result this time was "hung parliament". Weemadando's mistake was not in the bit where he said "and then we'll know that night", but rather in the part where he assumed there would be a victor.

Yeah, I was thinking about that quote the other day.

But for the most part we know who the victors are. Don't blame me if no one has the balls to just go for it and for a minority gov't without the 76 onside.

[Archaic`]

Ah, I wasn't aware of that promise. I still can't bear the thought of Abbott as PM, though. Why couldn't they have stuck with Turnbull? They would have won this in a landslide if it was anybody but Abbott.

The ironic thing is...if Turnbull had stayed on and the ETS was passed, Rudd would've likely stayed high in the polls, stayed on, and have won the election outright. Though we would at least have gotten debates that were a lot more interesting.

WorkChoices was political suicide from the beginning, I always wondered why they decided to go down that road. They would still probably be in power now if it wasn't for WorkChoices.

Honestly, the law itself was never all that bad. The vast majority of WorkChoices was essentially just merging a lot of the old laws into one document, as you basically had a bunch of old laws which were still relevant, but which had also been superseded in part by later laws, meaning you had cases where only one paragraph or clause of the original law might have still been in force.

The real problem with WorkChoices was the same problem as with the introduction of the GST. People just didn't understand it, and unscrupulous companies took advantage of it. In the former, prices were put up 10% even when the price should have fallen due to the GST being lower than the sales tax it eliminated. In this instance, because people believed their jobs could be taken away just like that, they basically let bad employers get away with it. They blamed the law, instead of the employer, and often never reported them to the body that WorkChoices set up to punish these bad employers.

[bobalot]

The real problem with WorkChoices was the same problem as with the introduction of the GST. People just didn't understand it, and unscrupulous companies took advantage of it. In the former, prices were put up 10% even when the price should have fallen due to the GST being lower than the sales tax it eliminated. In this instance, because people believed their jobs could be taken away just like that, they basically let bad employers get away with it. They blamed the law, instead of the employer, and often never reported them to the body that WorkChoices set up to punish these bad employers.

That's rubbish. WorkChoices stripped away a whole lot of protections for workers, it made abuses by employers bound to happen. For any company with less than 100 people (which employs the most people in Australia), you could get virtually sacked for no reason. Sure, there were a list of reasons they couldn't sack you for, but they never had to give their reasoning. A vague reason "operational concerns" would suffice. The whole point was to cut the real wages of low paid workers.

You just have to look at the figures.

Similarly, 88 per cent of AWAs abolished or 'modified' overtime rates; 89 per cent of AWAs either abolished or 'modified' shiftwork loading; 91 per cent abolished or 'modified' monetary allowances; 85 per cent abolished or 'modified' incentive payments; 82 per cent abolished or 'modified' public holiday payments; and 83 per cent abolished or 'modified' rest breaks.

Compensation

Were workers compensated? Some 22 per cent of AWAs paid on or below the award, so no compensation there. The remaining 78 per cent paid above the award, but we do not know by how much. Some, like the Spotlight AWAs, may have only been 2 cents an hour above the award.

We know that AWAs last for up to five years, and that while a majority of AWAs gave at least one wage increase, for only 14 per cent was it a guaranteed, quantifiable increase.

For 52 per cent the wage increase was unquantifiable and/or not guaranteed, at the discretion of management, and 34 per cent had no increase at all. So it seems likely that many AWA workers were not fully compensated for loss of conditions.

This loss of conditions translates into lower pay. In May 2006, average hourly earnings of workers under registered individual contracts were 3.3 per cent lower than those of workers under registered collective agreements. For women the gap was 11 per cent.

And that exaggerates the position of people on AWAs, because the data are muddied by low-paying non-union collective agreements and highly paid state individual agreements and Western Australian miners. Take WA out of the picture, and everywhere else AWA workers average 11 per cent less than workers on collective agreements.

Source

[mr friendly guy]

http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2010 ... 994988.htm

Abbott shoots down Fielding's supply threat
Updated 2 hours 13 minutes ago


The Coalition has ruled out joining forces with Family First Senator Steve Fielding to block supply if a Labor government is formed.

Senator Fielding is almost certain to have lost his seat and be leaving the Upper House next July.

Now the outspoken Family First senator says he believes voters are "not happy" with Labor and says he could decide to block a Labor government's bills in the Senate.

But Opposition Leader Tony Abbott's spokeswoman has indicated that if there is a Labor administration, the Coalition would be responsible and not combine with Senator Fielding to block supply.

She says the Coalition is working hard to form Government.

Senator Fielding is set to lose his seat to the Greens' Richard Di Natale after Family First received just 2.69 per cent of the Victorian Senate vote in Saturday's election. The Greens received 14.28 per cent of the vote.

The three incumbent independents who will decide who forms the next government - Rob Oakeshott, Tony Windsor and Bob Katter - are negotiating with Prime Minister Julia Gillard and Coalition Leader Tony Abbott.

Senator Fielding told the ABC's AM program that the trio and Governor-General Quentin Bryce must take his position into account when determining which party should form government.

"Over the last couple of days I've had people come to me [and ask] 'Steve, what are you going to do with your vote over the next year?" he said.

"[People say], 'you could determine whether there's a stable government or not'."

Please have fascist Family First confined to the dust notes of history. Steve Fielding is an idiot as he again demonstrates. Just for those who missed it the first time.

Mr Fielding has
a) ask if climate change is real why is it not hotter EVERY year.
b) demonstrates he doesn't know the difference between the words PHYSICAL and FISCAL, when referring to government policy. To those non Australians, he talked about government PHYSICAL policy.
c) Cannot spell the word Fiscal, he spells it fisKal. But thats ok, its due to a learning disability, thus showing that Mr Fielding has insulted every person with a disability who can do things despite their limitations, and who don't use excuses.

Now the election has some good things.
1. The Greens holding the balance of power in the senate. *
2. Wilson "iron bar" Tuckey losing his seat. Good riddance to bad rubbish.
3. The major parties humbled, with neither able to form government in their own right.
4. Steve Fielding losing his seat. The man's 15 minutes of fame couldn't end soon enough.

Now I just need to wait a week to find out the result.

* before someone whines about their anti nuclear stance being worse than the major parties anti nuclear stance, they have already indicated which of their agendas they are going to push this term, which includes gay rights, parliament approving a declaration of war etc, and the anti nuclear part isn't in it, most probably because the major parties are already apathetic or anti nuclear enough anyway.

[bobalot]

* before someone whines about their anti nuclear stance being worse than the major parties anti nuclear stance, they have already indicated which of their agendas they are going to push this term, which includes gay rights, parliament approving a declaration of war etc, and the anti nuclear part isn't in it, most probably because the major parties are already apathetic or anti nuclear enough anyway.

The whole nuclear debate in Australia is pointless, if you think about it.

Coal is so cheap here compared to Nuclear, it would never make any economic sense unless there was some sort of Emissions trading scheme or carbon tax.

[atg]

So apparently labor wins

JULIA Gillard has survived the scare of a lifetime to remain as prime minister.
NSW Independent MPs Rob Oakeshott and Tony Windsor have announced they will back Labor in minority government, after Bob Katter (QLD) announced earlier - and alone - that he would go with the Coalition. That gives Ms Gillard a one-seat majority in the parliament, 76 votes to 74.

Scroll down for live blogging from The Australian's Jack the Insider.

Mr Windsor - who announced his decision first - has said broadband and renewable energy policies were deciding factors for him, as well as producing a government most likely to last a full-term. "We've also looked at issues of stability - if a government is formed, how long could it last? What sort of relationship would there be with the Senate?"

Start of sidebar. Skip to end of sidebar.
Related Coverage.FAQ: It's decision day, at last ..End of sidebar. Return to start of sidebar.
Mr Oakeshott has said all the Independents have struggled with a "wicked dilemma". "This is not a mandate for any government," he has said, adding that the election result showed an overwhelming rejection of the major parties.

He has said it was "line-ball, six of one, half a dozen of the other" in making his decision and that the job ahead of both sides of politics now is to "bring Australia together". "If we can have a country that is as much as possible unified on the back of this decision, then that is a good job done."

Both men have praised the Labor and Coalition teams for how they engaged in negotiations, and have said either leader would have been a good prime minister.

They had been scheduled to hold a joint press conference at Parliament House to announce their decision, but Mr Katter pre-empted that with a solo appearance 90 minutes beforehand.

Labor won 72 seats in the election, with the Coalition on 73 including WA National Tony Crook. Greens MP Adam Bandt and Independent Andrew Wilkie had already announced they would support Labor in the next Parliament.



Rudd factor

Mr Katter has said the removal of Kevin Rudd has prime minister was a key factor in his decision and "it would have been a different outcome" in Mr Rudd was still Labor leader.

"I was extremely angry and so was my state" when Mr Rudd was ousted, he has said, although he has also said he likes Ms Gillard and Wayne Swan and would have no problem working with them. "I like Julia Gillard and Wayne Swan, you know, I've been lavish in my praise for him, so I would have no difficulty in working with their government whatsoever," he has said.

It is unclear if that means Mr Katter would back a confidence motion in Labor if Ms Gillard emerges with a workable majority. But he has insisted he will act as an Independent above all else in the next parliament.

He has denied he was offered any personal political gain from Mr Abbott in return for his backing: "I went for north Queensland, I went for my tribe, my homeland".

He has listed the mining tax, mandated ethanol and the future of the emissions trading scheme as other factors. He has said there did not appear to be much difference between the parties on broadband, but acknowledged he was "not an expert".



Read more: http://www.news.com.au/features/federal ... z0yor1M6Qe

[thejester]

Fuck me dead, could Oakeshott have dragged out his speech any longer?

That said I was pretty impressed with both candidates. As much as they dressed it up in 'country people looking after country people' the fact that they came out in favour of broadband, highlighted the specific targeting of one small demographic in a relatively small geographic area and emphasised climate change was all positive. Windsor in particular struck me as understanding that the various problems facing Australia at the moment could potentially have enormous benefits to rural areas if the right solutions are put into place.

[bobalot]

Fuck me dead, could Oakeshott have dragged out his speech any longer?

That said I was pretty impressed with both candidates. As much as they dressed it up in 'country people looking after country people' the fact that they came out in favour of broadband, highlighted the specific targeting of one small demographic in a relatively small geographic area and emphasised climate change was all positive. Windsor in particular struck me as understanding that the various problems facing Australia at the moment could potentially have enormous benefits to rural areas if the right solutions are put into place.

Who would have thought that the NBN would have saved Labor its government because country people wanted broadband.

Tony Abbott's $11 Billion Black hole didn't do the Coalition any favors either. Now we know why he refused to get his figures costed by the Treasury throughout the entire election. If that had come out earlier Labor might have hung onto a reduced majority.

[LionElJonson]

DAMMIT DAMMIT DAMMIT.

Fucking Labor. Fucking Independants, going against the will of the Australian people in exchange for political horse-trading. WE VOTED AGAINST LABOR, YOU TOSSERS!

Fucking Coalition for not doing the sensible thing and not joining up with the Family First senator to block supply.

Fuck you, politicians! Fuck you all!

[Fingolfin_Noldor]

DAMMIT DAMMIT DAMMIT.

Fucking Labor. Fucking Independants, going against the will of the Australian people in exchange for political horse-trading. WE VOTED AGAINST LABOR, YOU TOSSERS!

Fucking Coalition for not doing the sensible thing and not joining up with the Family First senator to block supply.

Fuck you, politicians! Fuck you all!

Funny. This twerp is supporting... a fundie?

[loomer]

DAMMIT DAMMIT DAMMIT.

Fucking Labor. Fucking Independants, going against the will of the Australian people in exchange for political horse-trading. WE VOTED AGAINST LABOR, YOU TOSSERS!

Fucking Coalition for not doing the sensible thing and not joining up with the Family First senator to block supply.

Fuck you, politicians! Fuck you all!

Plenty of the people also voted against the Coalition, retard.

[Zed]

Every time I see somebody mention "going in against the will of the people" in regards to the building of a governmental coalition, I feel the need to point out that, by definition, a coalition that has a majority governs with the consent of the people.

[JointStrikeFighter]

The idea that you vote "against" a party is fucking laughable

[Stark]

I sure do wish we had Abbott + Family First in government, that'd be great.

Largely because I'm white, not in a homosexual relationship or obviously muslim.

But yeah the idea that xyz party getting less votes than last time makes votes 'negative' party xyz is a fundamental misunderstanding of democracy.

Regardless of what Today Tonight may tell you, elections are NOT horse races.

[weemadando]

Wow. I come in here this morning and someone has taken a giant idiotic shit all over the thread. Thanks Lion'el. Now we can be sure that you are in fact totally insane.

[weemadando]

Wow. I come in here this morning and someone has taken a giant idiotic shit all over the thread. Thanks Lion'el. Now we can be sure that you are in fact totally insane.

[JointStrikeFighter]

Amusingly by retard boys argument Howard's entire governmental period was against the will of the people cause of their coalition with the national party.


DAMMIT DAMMIT DAMMIT.

Fucking Liberals. Fucking Nationals, going against the will of the Australian people in exchange for political horse-trading. WE VOTED AGAINST LIBERAL, YOU TOSSERS!

Fucking Labor for not doing the sensible thing and not joining up with the Democrats senator to block supply.

Fuck you, politicians! Fuck you all!

[weemadando]

Every parliament ever was ruling against the will of the people because some people didn't vote for them.

Winston Churchill was right! Democracy is the worst form of government. Except for all the others.