Regulating indoor tanning?

SLAM: debunk creationism, pseudoscience, and superstitions. Discuss logic and morality.

Moderator: Alyrium Denryle

User avatar
Mayabird
Storytime!
Posts: 5970
Joined: 2003-11-26 04:31pm
Location: IA > GA

Regulating indoor tanning?

Post by Mayabird »

The New England Journal of Medicine wrote:Indoor Tanning — Science, Behavior, and Policy
David E. Fisher, M.D., Ph.D., and William D. James, M.D.
N Engl J Med 2010; 363:901-903September 2, 2010


An estimated 1 million times per day, someone in the United States uses ultraviolet (UV) radiation for skin tanning. According to the indoor tanning industry, tanning beds are used by 30 million Americans, or about 10% of the U.S. population, each year (http://www.theita.com/indoor). These users include minors, who often have ready access to tanning beds. In response to considerable grassroots and political opposition to indoor tanning, in late March the Food and Drug Administration (FDA) convened an advisory panel to review the safety of the procedure. The FDA is expected to announce a decision soon on whether and how to reclassify tanning lamps and possibly to address minors' access to them.

The concern arises from increases in the incidence of melanoma and its related mortality. In the United States, the incidence of melanoma is increasing more rapidly than that of any other cancer. From 1992 through 2004, there was a particularly alarming trend in new melanoma diagnoses among girls and women between the ages of 15 and 39. Data from the National Cancer Institute's Surveillance, Epidemiology, and End Results registry show an estimated annual increase of 2.7% in this group.1 Researchers suspect that the increase results at least partially from the expanded use of tanning beds. The possibility that changes in diagnostic criteria may have contributed to the increased incidence is lessened by the fact that the trend is specific to a certain age range and sex. The incidence of thicker cutaneous melanomas (>1 mm) has also increased, and the incidence of regional and distant tumors has increased at an estimated annual rate of 9.2% — a change that could portend a surge in advanced melanomas in young women. Although substantial advances have been made in melanoma therapies, the risk of death from advanced disease remains high.

Abundant epidemiologic data have been examined to assess potential connections between indoor tanning and both melanoma and non-melanoma cutaneous cancers. According to a 2006 meta-analysis by the International Agency for Research on Cancer (IARC), among people who first used indoor tanning before 35 years of age, the relative risk of melanoma was 1.75 — a finding that prompted the World Health Organization to classify tanning beds as a group I carcinogen. Similarly, a recent case–control study in Minnesota showed an adjusted odds ratio of 1.74; the risk of melanoma increased as the number of years of tanning and hours of tanning sessions increased.2

An even more dramatic association has been found between exposure to UV radiation and non-melanoma skin cancers. In the IARC study, history of any indoor tanning was associated with a relative risk of 2.25 for squamous-cell carcinoma. Although most of these lesions are successfully treated at an early stage, metastasis persistently occurs in a small minority of such lesions, at which point cure is rare. Although the overall rate of death from squamous-cell carcinoma is low, the high incidence of this form of cancer means that it accounts for 25 to 35% of skin-cancer–related deaths.

In response to such data, numerous countries have tightened their restrictions on indoor tanning; France, Germany, Austria, Finland, and Britain, for instance, ban indoor tanning for people under the age of 18. Some U.S. states have also enacted restrictions on access for minors, but many have not. The FDA classifies tanning beds as medical devices and designates them as class I, the same class as tongue depressors and adhesive bandages — in contrast to tampons, for example, which are considered class II devices. Although no formal vote was reported at the March meeting of the FDA advisory committee, its members appeared to be unanimous in suggesting a change of classification.

Advances in the molecular understanding of signaling pathways in skin have yielded insights into the relationship between tanning and cancer, showing that the common molecular intermediate for both is DNA damage, which activates melanin synthesis, even when triggered by the singular, precise activity of restriction endonucleases.3 Studies have also revealed the involvement of p53 and proopiomelanocortin in the processing and secretion of melanocyte-stimulating hormone (MSH), which activates pigment production in epidermal melanocytes4 (see diagramMolecular Mechanism of Skin Pigmentation Induced by UV Radiation.). The tanning response is thus an offshoot of the p53 tumor-suppressor pathway. A striking example of the carcinogenic activity of UV radiation is also seen in xeroderma pigmentosum, a condition involving a DNA-repair deficiency.

The tanning industry argues that indoor tanners avoid sunburn better than outdoor tanners. This difference could arise from increased use of UVA, rather than UVB, wavelengths, but UVA radiation also damages DNA and induces discrete mutations. Moreover, UV radiation may be carcinogenic without causing sunburn. The precise roles of specific UV wavelengths in both tanning and carcinogenesis remain to be fully elucidated, but since DNA damage appears to be the key intermediate for both, tanning induced by UV radiation that is devoid of carcinogenic risk may be scientifically impossible.

Some evidence suggests that repeated UV irradiation, and the use of indoor tanning beds specifically, may have important systemic and behavioral consequences, including mood changes, pain, and physical dependency. In a series of studies, Feldman and colleagues identified the ability of frequent tanners to perceive the difference between UV-radiating and sham devices, suggesting the presence of a reinforcing stimulus, and found that the administration of an opiate-receptor blocker induced withdrawal-like symptoms among frequent tanners, suggesting the presence of opiate-like addiction. More recent data have shown addictive features of indoor tanning in a large cohort of college-age tanning-bed users.5 A mechanistic explanation may lie in the fact that MSH production in the UV-tanning response is accompanied by the release of β-endorphin, which shares the same precursor peptide (proopiomelanocortin)4 (see diagram).

One plausible model for the evolution of such behavioral sun-seeking effects involves the participation of UV radiation in the cutaneous production of vitamin D. In settings such as high latitudes, where exposure to such radiation is limited, a behavioral inclination toward sun exposure might have historically provided a survival advantage by averting lethal vitamin D deficiency at prereproductive ages.

Is cutaneous vitamin D synthesis a justifiable defense of indoor tanning in 2010? In addition to the tight overlap between UV radiation's action spectra for DNA damage and vitamin D synthesis, a key reason why such radiation is a poor choice for vitamin D replacement is the many (sometimes uncontrollable) variables involved in its use, including the quantity of skin exposed, the darkness or pigmentation of that skin, the wavelength or energy of the source (which varies with the time of year and latitude), and the degree of one's vitamin D deficiency. It is difficult to consume sufficient vitamin D from typical diets, but oral supplements and intermittent testing of blood levels would appear to be significantly more effective than tanning, without carcinogenic risk.

An estimated six of every seven melanomas are now being cured, thanks to early detection, but the U.S. Preventive Services Task Force does not recommend skin-cancer screening, since the evidence for its benefit has not been validated in large, prospective, randomized trials. Meanwhile, a number of promising new drugs for metastatic melanoma are progressing slowly through clinical trials to satisfy the FDA's stringent safety and efficacy criteria — requirements that, remarkably, have not been applied to indoor tanning devices. Relatively few human cancers are tightly linked to a known environmental carcinogen. Given the mechanistic and epidemiologic data, we believe that regulation of this industry may offer one of the most profound cancer-prevention opportunities of our time.

Disclosure forms provided by the authors are available with the full text of this article at NEJM.org.
Source Information

From the Department of Dermatology and Cancer Center, Massachusetts General Hospital and Harvard Medical School, Boston (D.E.F.); and the Department of Dermatology, University of Pennsylvania School of Medicine, Philadelphia (W.D.J.).
The tl;dr version:
1) A shitton of Americans use tanning beds, a lot, including minors.
2) Melanoma cases in girls and younger women have been increasing by 2.7% a year since 1992.
3) Many other countries have banned the use of tanning beds for people under age 18. Some states have also. Others suck.
4) Aside from the skin cancer, tanning beds can cause issues with behavior changes and physical dependency. Yes, people can get addicted to it.
5) Some people say "oh, but what about Vitamin D" as a desperate measure to justify it, even though tanning beds are a shitty way of going about it (see: cancer, addiction.)

My opinion: it's a freaking cancer coffin that causes addiction. Why are we letting fourteen year olds use them multiple times a week when we try to keep them from smoking for basically the same reasons? Yes, regulate and tax the hell out of it.

Now let's all yell at each other for a while.

Link
DPDarkPrimus is my boyfriend!

SDNW4 Nation: The Refuge And, on Nova Terra, Al-Stan the Totally and Completely Honest and Legitimate Weapons Dealer and Used Starship Salesman slept on a bed made of money, with a blaster under his pillow and his sombrero pulled over his face. This is to say, he slept very well indeed.
User avatar
The Duchess of Zeon
Gözde
Posts: 14566
Joined: 2002-09-18 01:06am
Location: Exiled in the Pale of Settlement.

Re: Regulating indoor tanning?

Post by The Duchess of Zeon »

The only thing I want to yell about is why they aren't banned entirely, rather than regulated and taxed, except with a doctor's prescription and being run in a doctor's office under the supervision of a doctor for limited and controlled legitimate purposes (severe vitamin D deficiency and SAD).
The threshold for inclusion in Wikipedia is verifiability, not truth. -- Wikipedia's No Original Research policy page.

In 1966 the Soviets find something on the dark side of the Moon. In 2104 they come back. -- Red Banner / White Star, a nBSG continuation story. Updated to Chapter 4.0 -- 14 January 2013.
User avatar
Losonti Tokash
Sith Devotee
Posts: 2916
Joined: 2004-09-29 03:02pm

Re: Regulating indoor tanning?

Post by Losonti Tokash »

SAD is not a legitimate use for tanning beds. My light therapy lamp explicitly does not emit UV rays.
HMS Conqueror
Crybaby
Posts: 441
Joined: 2010-05-15 01:57pm

Re: Regulating indoor tanning?

Post by HMS Conqueror »

This is stupid. Minor risk to desirable service = warning label at the very most.
User avatar
Solauren
Emperor's Hand
Posts: 10338
Joined: 2003-05-11 09:41pm

Re: Regulating indoor tanning?

Post by Solauren »

Regulate the use of it. It's addictive after all.

Beyond that, persons choice. And unlike smoking, there are no second hand effects.
I've been asked why I still follow a few of the people I know on Facebook with 'interesting political habits and view points'.

It's so when they comment on or approve of something, I know what pages to block/what not to vote for.
User avatar
Broomstick
Emperor's Hand
Posts: 28822
Joined: 2004-01-02 07:04pm
Location: Industrial armpit of the US Midwest

Re: Regulating indoor tanning?

Post by Broomstick »

The Duchess of Zeon wrote:The only thing I want to yell about is why they aren't banned entirely, rather than regulated and taxed, except with a doctor's prescription and being run in a doctor's office under the supervision of a doctor for limited and controlled legitimate purposes (severe vitamin D deficiency and SAD).
Also treatment of psoriasis.

Indoor tanning is like tobacco - potentially addictive, conducive to cancer, and completely unnecessary (except for a few medical purposes). I agree with the Duchess.
A life is like a garden. Perfect moments can be had, but not preserved, except in memory. Leonard Nimoy.

Now I did a job. I got nothing but trouble since I did it, not to mention more than a few unkind words as regard to my character so let me make this abundantly clear. I do the job. And then I get paid.- Malcolm Reynolds, Captain of Serenity, which sums up my feelings regarding the lawsuit discussed here.

If a free society cannot help the many who are poor, it cannot save the few who are rich. - John F. Kennedy

Sam Vimes Theory of Economic Injustice
User avatar
Skgoa
Jedi Master
Posts: 1389
Joined: 2007-08-02 01:39pm
Location: Dresden, valley of the clueless

Re: Regulating indoor tanning?

Post by Skgoa »

Yes, it can be dangerous - but people who do it don't hurt anyone else. Thus I don't see any justification for forbiding adults from doing it however and how often they want. I would of course implement a "mandatory health warning" (i.e. if they don't warn the user that he is overdoing it, they can be sued) or such. Minors on the other hand should not be banned.
http://www.politicalcompass.org/test
Economic Left/Right: -7.12
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -7.74

This is pre-WWII. You can sort of tell from the sketch style, from thee way it refers to Japan (Japan in the 1950s was still rebuilding from WWII), the spelling of Tokyo, lots of details. Nothing obvious... except that the upper right hand corner of the page reads "November 1931." --- Simon_Jester
User avatar
Broomstick
Emperor's Hand
Posts: 28822
Joined: 2004-01-02 07:04pm
Location: Industrial armpit of the US Midwest

Re: Regulating indoor tanning?

Post by Broomstick »

"They don't hurt anyone else"

Really? Well, not physically, but cancer certainly does affect relatives and friends of the ill person. If skin cancer is caught early it's not too bad, but a major bout of melanoma, particularly one that ends in death, is another matter. It does hurt loved ones when someone dies a preventable death. In the US, such an illness also drains an enormous amount of family resources, resources that in some instances could go to housing or education.

Given that I do think adults should be allowed to take informed risks maybe I'm not in favor of a complete ban, but this notion that giving yourself a potentially fatal disease doesn't hurt anyone else is false. It certainly can hurt others.
A life is like a garden. Perfect moments can be had, but not preserved, except in memory. Leonard Nimoy.

Now I did a job. I got nothing but trouble since I did it, not to mention more than a few unkind words as regard to my character so let me make this abundantly clear. I do the job. And then I get paid.- Malcolm Reynolds, Captain of Serenity, which sums up my feelings regarding the lawsuit discussed here.

If a free society cannot help the many who are poor, it cannot save the few who are rich. - John F. Kennedy

Sam Vimes Theory of Economic Injustice
User avatar
Shroom Man 777
FUCKING DICK-STABBER!
Posts: 21222
Joined: 2003-05-11 08:39am
Location: Bleeding breasts and stabbing dicks since 2003
Contact:

Re: Regulating indoor tanning?

Post by Shroom Man 777 »

Man, vanity and materialistic image-conscious culture sure is stupid. Of course, UV radiation = increased risk of cancer, who knew, lol, am i rite, etc. It's really morbidly surprising how people just flock to unhealthy shit just for the sake of improving their body images. It's not really just about cancer-machines. It's about a shitty society that causes cancer-machines to be wanted in the first place.

I wonder how dangerous glutathione injections are. Over here it's the rave since a lot of female brown people want to be whiter.
Image "DO YOU WORSHIP HOMOSEXUALS?" - Curtis Saxton (source)
shroom is a lovely boy and i wont hear a bad word against him - LUSY-CHAN!
Shit! Man, I didn't think of that! It took Shroom to properly interpret the screams of dying people :D - PeZook
Shroom, I read out the stuff you write about us. You are an endless supply of morale down here. :p - an OWS street medic
Pink Sugar Heart Attack!
User avatar
Broomstick
Emperor's Hand
Posts: 28822
Joined: 2004-01-02 07:04pm
Location: Industrial armpit of the US Midwest

Re: Regulating indoor tanning?

Post by Broomstick »

Last I heard, while glutathione does not cause cancer, elevated levels of glutathione can make cancer cells resistant to treatment - which is not a good thing.
A life is like a garden. Perfect moments can be had, but not preserved, except in memory. Leonard Nimoy.

Now I did a job. I got nothing but trouble since I did it, not to mention more than a few unkind words as regard to my character so let me make this abundantly clear. I do the job. And then I get paid.- Malcolm Reynolds, Captain of Serenity, which sums up my feelings regarding the lawsuit discussed here.

If a free society cannot help the many who are poor, it cannot save the few who are rich. - John F. Kennedy

Sam Vimes Theory of Economic Injustice
User avatar
GrandMasterTerwynn
Emperor's Hand
Posts: 6787
Joined: 2002-07-29 06:14pm
Location: Somewhere on Earth.

Re: Regulating indoor tanning?

Post by GrandMasterTerwynn »

Skgoa wrote:Yes, it can be dangerous - but people who do it don't hurt anyone else.
Yeah, until they get aggressive skin cancer and take health care money away from people who got cancers that weren't easily avoidable. Or away from people who need health care money for things that aren't their fault.

Except for the one or two conditions which a tanning bed legitimately treats, tanning beds ought to be banned.
[R_H]
Sith Devotee
Posts: 2894
Joined: 2007-08-24 08:51am
Location: Europe

Re: Regulating indoor tanning?

Post by [R_H] »

If Vitamin D is an "argument", why not just take a supplement?
HMS Conqueror
Crybaby
Posts: 441
Joined: 2010-05-15 01:57pm

Re: Regulating indoor tanning?

Post by HMS Conqueror »

Broomstick wrote:"They don't hurt anyone else"

Really? Well, not physically, but cancer certainly does affect relatives and friends of the ill person.
So does adultery. Let's stone them to death! (Sorry, I couldn't resist)
GrandMasterTerwynn wrote:Yeah, until they get aggressive skin cancer and take health care money away from people who got cancers that weren't easily avoidable. Or away from people who need health care money for things that aren't their fault.
Most that justifies is charging them for the treatment privately, in countries where this isn't already done.
User avatar
Wyrm
Jedi Council Member
Posts: 2206
Joined: 2005-09-02 01:10pm
Location: In the sand, pooping hallucinogenic goodness.

Re: Regulating indoor tanning?

Post by Wyrm »

HMS Conqueror wrote:
Broomstick wrote:"They don't hurt anyone else"

Really? Well, not physically, but cancer certainly does affect relatives and friends of the ill person.
So does adultery. Let's stone them to death! (Sorry, I couldn't resist)
Said as if marital infidelity doesn't already carry social consequences, like divorce and stuff.
HMS Conqueror wrote:
GrandMasterTerwynn wrote:Yeah, until they get aggressive skin cancer and take health care money away from people who got cancers that weren't easily avoidable. Or away from people who need health care money for things that aren't their fault.
Most that justifies is charging them for the treatment privately, in countries where this isn't already done.
There's no such thing as truly private treatment, unless the patient is footing the bill completely by himself and without the benefit of insurance in any form. Cancer treatments will bankrupt the average person without insurance — only the very rich can afford cancer treatment out of their own pocket, and we have enough problems with health insurance in this country already. If the insurance company foots the bill (assuming it does, it's likely not to assume all of the cost), the cost of covering the consequences of tanning bed abuse must be paid for by higher insurance premiums for all in the program.
Darth Wong on Strollers vs. Assholes: "There were days when I wished that my stroller had weapons on it."
wilfulton on Bible genetics: "If two screaming lunatics copulate in front of another screaming lunatic, the result will be yet another screaming lunatic. 8)"
SirNitram: "The nation of France is a theory, not a fact. It should therefore be approached with an open mind, and critically debated and considered."

Cornivore! | BAN-WATCH CANE: XVII | WWJDFAKB? - What Would Jesus Do... For a Klondike Bar? | Evil Bayesian Conspiracy
Shaun
Youngling
Posts: 55
Joined: 2009-12-11 03:45pm
Location: Scotland

Re: Regulating indoor tanning?

Post by Shaun »

I'd really hate to be a doctor and tell people that, because they used the sun bed too much, they now have skin cancer. Really. I'd facepalm myself to death.
User avatar
General Zod
Never Shuts Up
Posts: 29211
Joined: 2003-11-18 03:08pm
Location: The Clearance Rack
Contact:

Re: Regulating indoor tanning?

Post by General Zod »

Skgoa wrote:Yes, it can be dangerous - but people who do it don't hurt anyone else. Thus I don't see any justification for forbiding adults from doing it however and how often they want. I would of course implement a "mandatory health warning" (i.e. if they don't warn the user that he is overdoing it, they can be sued) or such. Minors on the other hand should not be banned.
At the very least they should require parental consent, just like getting a piercing. What the fuck does a 14 year old need a tan for anyway? They've clearly never looked at pictures of people whose skin got all wrinkly from too much sun exposure later on in their lives.
"It's you Americans. There's something about nipples you hate. If this were Germany, we'd be romping around naked on the stage here."
HMS Conqueror
Crybaby
Posts: 441
Joined: 2010-05-15 01:57pm

Re: Regulating indoor tanning?

Post by HMS Conqueror »

Wyrm wrote:
HMS Conqueror wrote:
Broomstick wrote:"They don't hurt anyone else"

Really? Well, not physically, but cancer certainly does affect relatives and friends of the ill person.
So does adultery. Let's stone them to death! (Sorry, I couldn't resist)
Said as if marital infidelity doesn't already carry social consequences, like divorce and stuff.
Divorce isn't a criminal matter, just a contractual one. If you signed a contract with your parents and friends saying you'd try to not get cancer then you would indeed be liable to be sued. But doing that would be just weird, frankly.
HMS Conqueror wrote:
GrandMasterTerwynn wrote:Yeah, until they get aggressive skin cancer and take health care money away from people who got cancers that weren't easily avoidable. Or away from people who need health care money for things that aren't their fault.
Most that justifies is charging them for the treatment privately, in countries where this isn't already done.
There's no such thing as truly private treatment, unless the patient is footing the bill completely by himself and without the benefit of insurance in any form. Cancer treatments will bankrupt the average person without insurance — only the very rich can afford cancer treatment out of their own pocket, and we have enough problems with health insurance in this country already. If the insurance company foots the bill (assuming it does, it's likely not to assume all of the cost), the cost of covering the consequences of tanning bed abuse must be paid for by higher insurance premiums for all in the program.
The insurance is a private agreement. For instance, the insurance company could say it will refuse claims for skin cancer from people who used tanning beds, or charge higher premiums just for the people who use tanning beds. If it doesn't, then all the participants agree for the insurance to also apply to tanning-related costs. It's like how you might insure yourself against injury if you decide to climb mount everest. The insurance company may charge you a higher premium for the added risk, but there's nothing non-private about it. The whole point of insurance is to voluntarily share risk. Insurance isn't like single-payer healthcare where everyone is charged the same regardless of their risk and where everyone is forced into the programme even if they don't like the terms.

Banning tanning beds crosses the line from making people pay for externalities to directly controlling their behaviour.
User avatar
Skgoa
Jedi Master
Posts: 1389
Joined: 2007-08-02 01:39pm
Location: Dresden, valley of the clueless

Re: Regulating indoor tanning?

Post by Skgoa »

General Zod wrote:
Skgoa wrote:Yes, it can be dangerous - but people who do it don't hurt anyone else. Thus I don't see any justification for forbiding adults from doing it however and how often they want. I would of course implement a "mandatory health warning" (i.e. if they don't warn the user that he is overdoing it, they can be sued) or such. Minors on the other hand should not be banned.
At the very least they should require parental consent, just like getting a piercing. What the fuck does a 14 year old need a tan for anyway? They've clearly never looked at pictures of people whose skin got all wrinkly from too much sun exposure later on in their lives.
Fuck, where did that last "not" come from? :banghead: Minors should be banned from using them.
http://www.politicalcompass.org/test
Economic Left/Right: -7.12
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -7.74

This is pre-WWII. You can sort of tell from the sketch style, from thee way it refers to Japan (Japan in the 1950s was still rebuilding from WWII), the spelling of Tokyo, lots of details. Nothing obvious... except that the upper right hand corner of the page reads "November 1931." --- Simon_Jester
User avatar
Wyrm
Jedi Council Member
Posts: 2206
Joined: 2005-09-02 01:10pm
Location: In the sand, pooping hallucinogenic goodness.

Re: Regulating indoor tanning?

Post by Wyrm »

HMS Conqueror wrote:The insurance is a private agreement. For instance, the insurance company could say it will refuse claims for skin cancer from people who used tanning beds, or charge higher premiums just for the people who use tanning beds. If it doesn't, then all the participants agree for the insurance to also apply to tanning-related costs. It's like how you might insure yourself against injury if you decide to climb mount everest. The insurance company may charge you a higher premium for the added risk, but there's nothing non-private about it. The whole point of insurance is to voluntarily share risk. Insurance isn't like single-payer healthcare where everyone is charged the same regardless of their risk and where everyone is forced into the programme even if they don't like the terms.

Banning tanning beds crosses the line from making people pay for externalities to directly controlling their behaviour.
Okay, it seems you advocate raising insurance premiums for specifically risky behavior. Now tell me:

1) Do you advocate raising insurance premiums for people who sunbathe?
2) Do you raise insurance premiums for people who habitually don't wear sunblock?
3) Are the people claiming to regularly wear sunblock actually wearing sunblock, rather than tanning oil? Only the former protects against sun damage, but people routinely confuse the two and their effects.
4) Are the people wearing actual sunblock wearing the sunblock correctly? (It's easy to wear sunblock incorrectly — if you're rubbing it in, you're doing it wrong! If you're not applying it regularly, you're doing it wrong!)
5) How strong is the sunblock compared to your skin type? Fair skinned people need more sun protection than darker skinned folk, but do they know that?

I have described above an actuarial nightmare. Sun exposure is not all or nothing. Each of these factors can run the gamut of no additional risk to greatly increased risk, and given people's willingness to lie or be mistaken on these kinds of questions (no one's going to follow these folks around for ten years to find out if their clients are on level), there is risk to even assuming the risk. You'd have to up insurance premiums just to cover that risk.

Or the insurance company will take the obvious shortcut and say, "If you're breathing, you're exposed to the sun and taking avoidable risk. Up everyone's premiums!"
Darth Wong on Strollers vs. Assholes: "There were days when I wished that my stroller had weapons on it."
wilfulton on Bible genetics: "If two screaming lunatics copulate in front of another screaming lunatic, the result will be yet another screaming lunatic. 8)"
SirNitram: "The nation of France is a theory, not a fact. It should therefore be approached with an open mind, and critically debated and considered."

Cornivore! | BAN-WATCH CANE: XVII | WWJDFAKB? - What Would Jesus Do... For a Klondike Bar? | Evil Bayesian Conspiracy
User avatar
Broomstick
Emperor's Hand
Posts: 28822
Joined: 2004-01-02 07:04pm
Location: Industrial armpit of the US Midwest

Re: Regulating indoor tanning?

Post by Broomstick »

HMS Conqueror wrote:
Broomstick wrote:"They don't hurt anyone else"

Really? Well, not physically, but cancer certainly does affect relatives and friends of the ill person.
So does adultery. Let's stone them to death! (Sorry, I couldn't resist)
While I don't approve of tanning beds (outside of medical reasons) I don't think it is deserving of a death sentence
HMS Conqueror wrote:
GrandMasterTerwynn wrote:Yeah, until they get aggressive skin cancer and take health care money away from people who got cancers that weren't easily avoidable. Or away from people who need health care money for things that aren't their fault.
Most that justifies is charging them for the treatment privately, in countries where this isn't already done.
Forcing people to pay for melanoma treatment out of pocket is tantamount to a death sentence for all but the very, very rich. Again, I don't think the use of a tanning bed is capital offense.
A life is like a garden. Perfect moments can be had, but not preserved, except in memory. Leonard Nimoy.

Now I did a job. I got nothing but trouble since I did it, not to mention more than a few unkind words as regard to my character so let me make this abundantly clear. I do the job. And then I get paid.- Malcolm Reynolds, Captain of Serenity, which sums up my feelings regarding the lawsuit discussed here.

If a free society cannot help the many who are poor, it cannot save the few who are rich. - John F. Kennedy

Sam Vimes Theory of Economic Injustice
User avatar
Broomstick
Emperor's Hand
Posts: 28822
Joined: 2004-01-02 07:04pm
Location: Industrial armpit of the US Midwest

Re: Regulating indoor tanning?

Post by Broomstick »

Wyrm wrote:Cancer treatments will bankrupt the average person without insurance — only the very rich can afford cancer treatment out of their own pocket, and we have enough problems with health insurance in this country already. If the insurance company foots the bill (assuming it does, it's likely not to assume all of the cost), the cost of covering the consequences of tanning bed abuse must be paid for by higher insurance premiums for all in the program.
Typically, the best of US health insurance will pay 80% of approved/covered costs. The remaining 20% is the patient's responsibility.

Treatment for cancer is typically in the six digits. Thus, if treatment costs $100,000 USD then the patient needs to pay $20,000. If the treatment is $500,000 then the patient needs to come up with $100,000 of their own money. If the money stops, so does treatment. Keep in mind, the 80/20 split is the BEST of US insurance - I've seen policies with a 50/50 split (meaning a "cheap" cancer of $100,000 puts a $50,000 bill on the patient).

Keep in mind, as well, that that is covered costs - not everything is covered. And some of the new cancer medications coming out - drugs which really do work - have co-pays of $10,000 or more. That's the co-pay per dose. The actual cost is, of course, much much higher.

In short, even with insurance cancer can and does bankrupt Americans on a regular basis.
A life is like a garden. Perfect moments can be had, but not preserved, except in memory. Leonard Nimoy.

Now I did a job. I got nothing but trouble since I did it, not to mention more than a few unkind words as regard to my character so let me make this abundantly clear. I do the job. And then I get paid.- Malcolm Reynolds, Captain of Serenity, which sums up my feelings regarding the lawsuit discussed here.

If a free society cannot help the many who are poor, it cannot save the few who are rich. - John F. Kennedy

Sam Vimes Theory of Economic Injustice
User avatar
The Duchess of Zeon
Gözde
Posts: 14566
Joined: 2002-09-18 01:06am
Location: Exiled in the Pale of Settlement.

Re: Regulating indoor tanning?

Post by The Duchess of Zeon »

HMS Conqueror wrote:
Banning tanning beds crosses the line from making people pay for externalities to directly controlling their behaviour.
The average person needs to have their behaviour controlled so that they don't hop in their car after tanning and weave through the gates at a level crossing at 100mph an hour in a 35 zone with a cellphone in one hand and the open bottle of beer they're halfway through guzzling in their cupholder.
The threshold for inclusion in Wikipedia is verifiability, not truth. -- Wikipedia's No Original Research policy page.

In 1966 the Soviets find something on the dark side of the Moon. In 2104 they come back. -- Red Banner / White Star, a nBSG continuation story. Updated to Chapter 4.0 -- 14 January 2013.
User avatar
PeZook
Emperor's Hand
Posts: 13237
Joined: 2002-07-18 06:08pm
Location: Poland

Re: Regulating indoor tanning?

Post by PeZook »

Broomstick wrote: In short, even with insurance cancer can and does bankrupt Americans on a regular basis.
Why does reading about American health care always cause my blood pressure to spike?
Image
JULY 20TH 1969 - The day the entire world was looking up

It suddenly struck me that that tiny pea, pretty and blue, was the Earth. I put up my thumb and shut one eye, and my thumb blotted out the planet Earth. I didn't feel like a giant. I felt very, very small.
- NEIL ARMSTRONG, MISSION COMMANDER, APOLLO 11

Signature dedicated to the greatest achievement of mankind.

MILDLY DERANGED PHYSICIST does not mind BREAKING the SOUND BARRIER, because it is INSURED. - Simon_Jester considering the problems of hypersonic flight for Team L.A.M.E.
User avatar
Shroom Man 777
FUCKING DICK-STABBER!
Posts: 21222
Joined: 2003-05-11 08:39am
Location: Bleeding breasts and stabbing dicks since 2003
Contact:

Re: Regulating indoor tanning?

Post by Shroom Man 777 »

Because privatized American health care is structured so that even just by hearing/reading about it, you'll develop unhealthy conditions that will cost a lot to treat at your expense (and at the health companies' profit)? :D
Image "DO YOU WORSHIP HOMOSEXUALS?" - Curtis Saxton (source)
shroom is a lovely boy and i wont hear a bad word against him - LUSY-CHAN!
Shit! Man, I didn't think of that! It took Shroom to properly interpret the screams of dying people :D - PeZook
Shroom, I read out the stuff you write about us. You are an endless supply of morale down here. :p - an OWS street medic
Pink Sugar Heart Attack!
User avatar
Broomstick
Emperor's Hand
Posts: 28822
Joined: 2004-01-02 07:04pm
Location: Industrial armpit of the US Midwest

Re: Regulating indoor tanning?

Post by Broomstick »

PeZook wrote:
Broomstick wrote: In short, even with insurance cancer can and does bankrupt Americans on a regular basis.
Why does reading about American health care always cause my blood pressure to spike?
Try living with it - uncontrolled high blood pressure is all too common these days. Among other ills.
A life is like a garden. Perfect moments can be had, but not preserved, except in memory. Leonard Nimoy.

Now I did a job. I got nothing but trouble since I did it, not to mention more than a few unkind words as regard to my character so let me make this abundantly clear. I do the job. And then I get paid.- Malcolm Reynolds, Captain of Serenity, which sums up my feelings regarding the lawsuit discussed here.

If a free society cannot help the many who are poor, it cannot save the few who are rich. - John F. Kennedy

Sam Vimes Theory of Economic Injustice
Post Reply