US Gen. Petraeus Decries "Burn A Koran Day"

[Master of Ossus]

That said the korans meaning to oneself entirely depends on ones interpretation. You can interpret it to justify evil as well as good.

Yeah, but one interpretation is obviously more powerful in the text of the Koran.

Like christian theological circles there is no lack of intense scholarly debates on what individual verses mean.

So what? That doesn't mean that I can't give my opinion on it as a reader of the text. No one who sat down and read the thing in a vacuum would come out thinking that the text advocates peaceful co-existence with non-Muslims.

Now I don't why MoO chose to interpret the verses as evil. He should go around and meet some the muslims in America - the people who drive cabs in NY, students at UCLA, shop owners etc. They are not from mordor as MoO would like to have you all believe.

I went to UCLA, dumbass, and I've been to New York regularly. I'm not claiming that all Muslims are evil--indeed, the vast majority that I've met have been good people. I'm saying that their holy book illustrates dramatically less tolerance and significantly more cruelty than even the Bible. No one here would bat an eyelash if I stated that the Bible exhibits extraordinary intolerance and cruelty. I don't understand how there can be serious argument among readers of the text that the Koran is similar, but that the magnitude is even worse.

[FSTargetDrone]

And now, Pastor Pissant's former Church (among others) condemns his idea:

Even pastor’s old church condemns Quran-burning

By Liz Goodwin

Wed Sep 8, 12:14 pm ET

It's increasingly looking as though the only spiritual or political figure who will not denounce Florida pastor Terry Jones' plan to commemorate Sept. 11 by burning copies of the Quran is Jones himself. Wednesday brings the news that even the church Jones founded in Germany in the 1980s is condemning the upcoming Quran-burning at his small place of worship in Gainesville, Fla.

"We are surprised and shocked at the extreme radicalism being displayed [by Jones] right now on this issue," Stephan Baar of the Christian Community of Cologne told the Associated Press. The 60-member church kicked out Jones in 2008. Jones' estranged daughter says the eviction arose from her father's reported penchant for dipping into the church's till to pay his own expenses.

Jones' wish to burn hundreds of copies of the Islamic holy book has drawn a wide chorus of protests. Gen. David Petraeus said on Monday the action could hurt U.S. troops, while hundreds of Afghans protested in Kabul and burned Jones in effigy. The Gainesville Fire Department has denied Jones a permit for the event -- but the pastor says he plans to go ahead with it anyway.

Indeed, so many high-profile people have spoken out against the plan that they may now outnumber the fringe church's 50-member congregation, raising the question of whether the condemnations are magnifying the cause of a very small group of extremists.

Here's a partial list of people who have condemned the planned bonfire:

* "It could endanger troops and it could endanger the overall effort," top commander in Afghanistan Gen. David Petraeus told the media. "It is precisely the kind of action the Taliban uses and could cause significant problems.

* As "an act of patriotism," the media should not cover the burning, Secretary of State Hillary Clinton said. She also said, "It's regrettable that a pastor in Gainesville, Florida, with a church of no more than 50 people can make this outrageous and distressful, disgraceful plan, and get the world's attention":

* The terrorist attacks of 9/11, says the Vatican, "cannot be counteracted by an outrageous and grave gesture against a book considered sacred by a religious community."

* Attorney General Eric Holder called the plan "idiotic and dangerous."

* Presumed presidential candidate Mitt Romney told Politico
"Burning the Quran is wrong on every level. It puts troops in danger, and it violates a founding principle of our republic."

* "I do not think well of the idea of burning anybody's Koran, Bible, Book of Mormon or anything else," Mississippi Gov. Haley Barbour told reporters. "I don't think there is any excuse for it. I don't think it's a good idea."

* "Any type of activity like that that puts our troops in harm's way would be a concern," White House spokesman Robert Gibbs said Tuesday.

* "I appeal to people who are planning to burn the Quran to reconsider and drop their plans because they are inconsistent with American values and, as General Petraeus has warned, threatening to America's military," Connecticut Sen. Joe Lieberman said in a statement.

* House Minority Leader John Boehner spoke out against the event, comparing it to the planned Islamic center near Ground Zero. "Well, listen, I just think it's not wise to do this in the face of what our country represents. ... Just because you have the right to do something in America, doesn't mean it's the right thing to do."

* New York Mayor Michael Bloomberg called it "boneheaded and wrong" but said the protesters are protected by the First Amendment. "He has a right to do it," he said.

* Actress Angelina Jolie spoke out against the plan while visiting Pakistan to raise awareness about the devastating floods. "I have hardly the words that somebody would do that to somebody's religious book," she said.

[Simon_Jester]

So, to paraphrase, your position is that Mohammed tried to set himself up as the mouthpiece of God, but didn't intend for his statements to be recorded and used after his death?

No. That is wrong.

What is true about what I said is that I suspect he did not specify which of his statements were to be recorded and used as holy law and which were just off-the-cuff. Granted, all we really have to go on is Muslim hagiography, but my impression is that Muhammed did not plan very effectively for his own death. He did not appoint a successor, and I would not be surprised to learn that he didn't actually have a plan for what Muslims would use as guiding lights after he died.

Thus, saying that Muhammed is responsible for the highly Levitical approach Muslim theology took after his death is somewhat misleading. It's like saying Marx is responsible for Leninism. In some sense true, and there's certainly a causal relationship (no Muhammed, no Leviticus-style Islam; no Marx, no Leninism). But the idea of what would happen was not present in the mind of the person it's being blamed on.

I think it's worth bearing that in mind.

Moreover, whatever he intended, it's obvious that the Koran has been taken to have been accurate after his death by the followers of the religion he created (and I say this for good or for bad).

To be sure.

But to go back to my original post that seems to have sparked all of this, I never said that Muhammed had personally written down the text with the obvious intent to found a new religion. Rather I said it was "almost like," and then made a semi-satirical point about the actual contents and the writing style of the modern Koran by analogizing to a portion of the Bible to which I found it analogous. It's obviously meant in jest, guys, not as a literal statement that he wrote down the Koran because he was making a conscious effort to expand on Leviticus or to imitate its style of writing.

I am not sure "obvious" is the word; I think you underestimate your own subtlety. Though I did recognize that you were taking a humorous approach to the whole "selectively ignore" issue.

[FSTargetDrone]

Unsurprisingly, he still intends to do this:

Fla. minister determined to hold 9/11 Quran burn

By MITCH STACY, Associated Press Writer Mitch Stacy, Associated Press Writer 26 mins ago

GAINESVILLE, Fla. – A top general, the secretary of state, the White House and political and religious leaders from around the world have decried a plan by the leader of a small Florida church to burn copies of Islam's holiest text to mark the 9/11 attacks. The Rev. Terry Jones is not backing down.

Despite the mounting pressure to call off Saturday's bonfire, Jones said at a Wednesday news conference that he also has received much encouragement, with supporters mailing copies of the Quran to his Dove Outreach Center of about 50 followers. The plan comes as an emotional debate continues over a proposed Islamic center near the ground zero site of the 2001 terrorist attacks in New York.

"As of right now, we are not convinced that backing down is the right thing," said Jones, 58, who took no questions.

Jones was flanked by an armed escort and said he has received more than 100 death threats since announcing in July that he would stage "International Burn-a-Quran Day." Muslims consider the Quran the word of God and insist it be treated with the utmost respect.

The book, according to Jones, is evil because it espouses something other than biblical truth and incites radical, violent behavior among Muslims.

Fearing the burning could spark anti-American violence, the State Department ordered U.S. embassies around the world to assess their security. The posts are to warn American citizens in countries where protests may occur.

The move came a day after Gen. David Petraeus, the top U.S. and NATO commander in Afghanistan, e-mailed The Associated Press to say the burning would endanger troops and that "images of the burning of a Quran would undoubtedly be used by extremists in Afghanistan — and around the world — to inflame public opinion and incite violence."

Petraeus spoke Wednesday with Afghan President Karzai about the matter, according to a military spokesman Col. Erik Gunhus.

"They both agreed that burning of a Quran would undermine our effort in Afghanistan, jeopardize the safety of coalition troopers and civilians," Gunhus said, and would "create problems for our Afghan partners ... as it likely would be Afghan police and soldiers who would have to deal with any large demonstrations."

Secretary of State Hillary Rodham Clinton said that the pastor's plans were outrageous, and along with Defense Secretary Robert Gates, urged Jones to cancel the event.

"It is regrettable that a pastor in Gainesville, Florida, with a church of no more than 50 people can make this outrageous and distrustful, disgraceful plan and get the world's attention, but that's the world we live in right now," Clinton said in remarks to the Council on Foreign Relations.

Not just the Democratic administration has weighed in. Ex-Alaska governor and former Republican candidate for vice president Sarah Palin said in a Facebook post that though people have the constitutional right to burn the Quran if they choose, doing so would be an "insensitive and an unnecessary provocation — much like building a mosque at ground zero."

"I would hope that Pastor Terry Jones and his supporters will consider the ramifications of their planned book-burning event," she wrote. "It will feed the fire of caustic rhetoric and appear as nothing more than mean-spirited religious intolerance. Don't feed that fire."

Conservative radio and television host Glenn Beck wrote in an Internet blog that burning the Quran is like burning the flag or the Bible — something people can do in the United States, but shouldn't. Legal experts have said the burning would likely be protected by the First Amendment's right to free speech.

"Our good Muslim friends and neighbors will be saddened," Beck wrote. "It makes the battle that they face inside their own communities even harder."

Pakistan's ambassador to the United States, Husain Haqqani, called on Beck to denounce the plan that he said would set off a massive reaction in parts of the Muslim world.

In Afghanistan, the plan provoked outrage.

"It is the duty of Muslims to react," said Mohammad Mukhtar, a cleric and candidate for the Afghan parliament in the Sept. 18 election. "When their holy book Quran gets burned in public, then there is nothing left. If this happens, I think the first and most important reaction will be that wherever Americans are seen, they will be killed. No matter where they will be in the world they will be killed."

Muslims consider the Quran along with any printed material containing its verses or the name of Allah or the Prophet Muhammad to be sacred. Any intentional damage or show of disrespect Quran is deeply offensive.

Jones' Dove Outreach Center is independent of any denomination. It follows the Pentecostal tradition, which teaches that the Holy Spirit can manifest itself in the modern day. Pentecostals often view themselves as engaged in spiritual warfare against satanic forces.

The Vatican also denounced the protest and a religious watchdog group, Military Religious Freedom Foundation, said it would send a copy of the Quran to the Afghan National Army for every one that might be burned.

Actress Angelina Jolie, in her capacity as a goodwill ambassador for the U.N.'s refugee agency, condemned the protest during a trip to Pakistan to raise awareness about the floods in the largely Muslim country.

Jones' neighbors in Gainesville, a city of 125,000 anchored by the sprawling University of Florida campus, also have said they disapprove. At least two dozen Christian churches, Jewish temples and Muslim organizations in the city have mobilized to plan inclusive events — some will read from the Quran at their own weekend services. A student group is organizing a protest across the street from the church on Saturday.

And Gov. Charlie Crist, who is running as an independent candidate for U.S. Senate, said he'd be closely monitoring what happens to try to ensure safety.

"In addition to being offensive, the Gainesville protest puts at risk those brave Americans who are fighting abroad for the freedoms and values that we believe in as Americans," Crist said in a statement.

___

Associated Press writers Kimberly Dozier and Robert Reid in Kabul, Curt Anderson in Miami and Matthew Lee, Mark Sherman and Anne Flaherty in Washington contributed to this report.

Wonder if this will be televised. I will be surprised if it doesn't hit the interwebs, somehow.

[Darth Yan]

in fairness, quite a few of the violent war verses were advocated after the muslims had been forced to flee mecca due to persecution. It also does have clear rules of war (don't kill women, children, infirm, monks, or surrendering soldiers, treat prisoners of war humanely, make peace with the enemy if they show genuine willingness for it, don't attack unless in self defense) etc. Also, the Quran says that oath breakers will be punished severely, and even the conservative theologins of the past have made it quite clear that violating a citizenship or visa would qualify as breaking such an oath. It does technically forbid treason against your home country. Therefore the hijackers did break islamic law when they destroyed the world trade center

[Kanastrous]

The burning's off.

Pastor Attention-Whore got the attention for which he was whoring, and decided to look 'magnanimous,' or something.

Whatever.

[FSTargetDrone]

The burning's off.

Pastor Attention-Whore got the attention for which he was whoring, and decided to look 'magnanimous,' or something.

Whatever.

So much the better.

Story:

By ANTONIO GONZALEZ, Associated Press Writer Antonio Gonzalez, Associated Press Writer – 1 min ago

GAINESVILLE, Fla. – The leader of a small Florida church that espouses anti-Islam philosophy says he is canceling plans to burn copies of the Quran on Sept. 11.

Pastor Terry Jones said Thursday that he decided to cancel his protest because the leader of a planned Islamic Center near ground zero has agreed to move its controversial location. The agreement couldn't be immediately confirmed.

Jones' plans to burn Islam's holiest text Saturday sparked an international outcry.

President Barack Obama, the top U.S. general in Afghanistan and several Christian leaders had urged Jones to reconsider his plans. They said his actions would endanger U.S. soldiers and provide a strong recruitment tool for Islamic extremists. Jones' protest also drew criticism from religious and political leaders from across the Muslim world.

When did this happen?

Pastor Terry Jones said Thursday that he decided to cancel his protest because the leader of a planned Islamic Center near ground zero has agreed to move its controversial location. The agreement couldn't be immediately confirmed.

[KrauserKrauser]

You missed the fun part. The burning is off because Imam Raouff agreed to move the mosque near ground zero.

Can't cite sources right now but Hannity is cureently reporting it that way.

[Skylon]

Pastor Terry Jones said Thursday that he decided to cancel his protest because the leader of a planned Islamic Center near ground zero has agreed to move its controversial location. The agreement couldn't be immediately confirmed.

.....

So, if this is true he is essentially declaring victory.

And terror wins.

Let's HOPE this isn't true.

[General Zod]

Pastor Terry Jones said Thursday that he decided to cancel his protest because the leader of a planned Islamic Center near ground zero has agreed to move its controversial location. The agreement couldn't be immediately confirmed.

.....

So, if this is true he is essentially declaring victory.

And terror wins.

Let's HOPE this isn't true.

AP

GAINESVILLE, Fla. (AP) -- The leader of a small Florida church that espouses anti-Islam philosophy says he is canceling plans to burn copies of the Quran on Sept. 11.

Pastor Terry Jones said Thursday that he decided to cancel his protest because the leader of a planned Islamic Center near ground zero has agreed to move its controversial location. The agreement couldn't be immediately confirmed.

Jones' plans to burn Islam's holiest text Saturday sparked an international outcry.

President Barack Obama, the top U.S. general in Afghanistan and several Christian leaders had urged Jones to reconsider his plans. They said his actions would endanger U.S. soldiers and provide a strong recruitment tool for Islamic extremists. Jones' protest also drew criticism from religious and political leaders from across the Muslim world.

THIS IS A BREAKING NEWS UPDATE. Check back soon for further information. AP's earlier story is below.

GAINESVILLE, Fla. (AP) - A Christian minister in Florida is canceling plans to burn Qurans on Sept. 11, heeding an international outcry that drew criticism from President Barack Obama and religious and political leaders across the Muslim world.

[CaptainChewbacca]

Interesting bit there, Zod:

GAINESVILLE, Fla. (AP) - A Christian minister in Florida is canceling plans to burn Qurans on Sept. 11, heeding an international outcry that drew criticism from President Barack Obama and religious and political leaders across the Muslim world.

See how they did that there? Anyone else catch it?

[Kodiak]

Interesting bit there, Zod:

GAINESVILLE, Fla. (AP) - A Christian minister in Florida is canceling plans to burn Qurans on Sept. 11, heeding an international outcry that drew criticism from President Barack Obama and religious and political leaders across the Muslim world.

See how they did that there? Anyone else catch it?

Implying that Obama is a leader in the Muslim world? I think you're reading too much into it. If it had said

"an international outcry that drew criticism from President Barack Obama and other religious and political leaders across the Muslim world."

I might cry shenanigans. Is that what you were getting at?

[General Zod]

Interesting bit there, Zod:

GAINESVILLE, Fla. (AP) - A Christian minister in Florida is canceling plans to burn Qurans on Sept. 11, heeding an international outcry that drew criticism from President Barack Obama and religious and political leaders across the Muslim world.

See how they did that there? Anyone else catch it?

It could simply be a poor choice of wording than anything intentional.

[Mr. Tickle]

The organisation behind the cultural centre/mosque/super fun happy place (whatever you want to call it) are denying they have agreed to move location... from the bbc

[FSTargetDrone]

Now, is the good Reverend going change his mind again?

Expect this story to be confused for a bit.

[Master of Ossus]

No. That is wrong.

What is true about what I said is that I suspect he did not specify which of his statements were to be recorded and used as holy law and which were just off-the-cuff. Granted, all we really have to go on is Muslim hagiography, but my impression is that Muhammed did not plan very effectively for his own death. He did not appoint a successor, and I would not be surprised to learn that he didn't actually have a plan for what Muslims would use as guiding lights after he died.

How do you know? What evidence do you have to support your view?

Thus, saying that Muhammed is responsible for the highly Levitical approach Muslim theology took after his death is somewhat misleading. It's like saying Marx is responsible for Leninism. In some sense true, and there's certainly a causal relationship (no Muhammed, no Leviticus-style Islam; no Marx, no Leninism). But the idea of what would happen was not present in the mind of the person it's being blamed on.

What is being "blamed on him" is not some "approach" to Islamic theology that became predominant after his death, but rather the text of the Koran itself. You cannot deny that the Koran is an astoundingly intolerant text that deliberately incites its followers to violence. It would be easy to dismiss this if the Koran consisted primarily of peaceful or tolerant text coupled with a few scattered instances of intolerance. In that case, those could be attributed to others after his death. But the entire book is violent and intolerant. That's not some mere "interpretation" placed upon Muhammed's teachings: those were his teachings, and holding a religious prophet responsible for his (very consistent) teachings is entirely reasonable.

There is no evidence that the recorders had any particular biases in recording Muhammed's teachings. For instance, it's hard to argue that they preferentially recorded the instances in which he advocated violence or intolerance. If the text of the Koran reflects, to any real extent, the teachings of Muhammed then the conclusion is undeniable. The great bulk of the Koran is a highly violent, intolerant text that advocates destruction, derision, and dismissal of nonbelievers. This reflects upon the original religious leader whose teachings the Koran records, rather than some particular "spin" adopted by everyone who followed his teachings after his death.

If you set yourself up as a mouthpiece of god and then preach (more or less) nothing but hatred and violence and intolerance, you cannot profess surprise when your words are later compiled and your teachings are presented as violent and hateful.

[The Spartan]

Now, is the good Reverend going change his mind again?

Expect this story to be confused for a bit.

According to Yahoo's front page, Rev Whathisface "expects" the mosque to be moved in return for his magnanimity.

[Kodiak]

Now, is the good Reverend going change his mind again?

Expect this story to be confused for a bit.

According to Yahoo's front page, Rev Whathisface "expects" the mosque to be moved in return for his magnanimity.

Am I the only one here who feels this has transformed into a hostage situation?

"Move the mosque or the Koran gets it!"

[General Zod]

Now, is the good Reverend going change his mind again?

Expect this story to be confused for a bit.

According to Yahoo's front page, Rev Whathisface "expects" the mosque to be moved in return for his magnanimity.

Am I the only one here who feels this has transformed into a hostage situation?

"Move the mosque or the Koran gets it!"

Sounds like the setup for a South Park episode to me.

[Skylon]

Now, is the good Reverend going change his mind again?

Expect this story to be confused for a bit.

According to Yahoo's front page, Rev Whathisface "expects" the mosque to be moved in return for his magnanimity.

Am I the only one here who feels this has transformed into a hostage situation?

"Move the mosque or the Koran gets it!"

Until we hear from an official source that it is indeed moving, it does sound like it.

In which case, the counter-discussion becomes "Would you move a Church just because someone threatened to burn Bibles?"

[Broomstick]

Can't link to it 'cause I heard it on TV, but the latest update was that Pastor Attention-Whore spoke to a local Florida imman, apparently unaware said imman had ZERO connection to the folks in NYC. Pastor insists the Florida imman promised the NYC "mosque" (which is, if I recall, a community center and not a mosque, or at least not just a mosque) would be moved. The NYC crowd say they hadn't talked to Pastor Attention-Whore or the Florida imman, whom they had never heard of, nor would they be speaking to either tonight since they were busy with Ramadan observances.

I'm wondering if a Florida imman pulled a fast one on the Pastor in the interests of defusing the situation.

Also heard the Secretary of Defense called Pastor Attention-Whore and spoke with him, saying canceling the burning was a matter of national security.

[FSTargetDrone]

Details details details (of sorts):

Pastor nixes Quran-burning, claims NYC mosque deal

By ANTONIO GONZALEZ, Associated Press Writer Antonio Gonzalez, Associated Press Writer

37 mins ago

GAINESVILLE, Fla. – The anti-Muslim leader of a tiny Florida church backed off his threat to burn the Quran, defusing an international firestorm Thursday after he said he was promised that a planned Islamic center and mosque would be moved away from New York's ground zero. The imam planning the center, however, quickly denied such a deal.

The Rev. Terry Jones had been under intense pressure to abandon his plan to burn the Quran on Saturday, the ninth anniversary of the Sept. 11, 2001, terrorist attacks. President Barack Obama urged him to listen to "those better angels" and give up his "stunt," saying it would endanger U.S. troops and give Islamic terrorists a recruiting tool. Defense Secretary Robert Gates took the extraordinary step of calling Jones personally.

Standing outside his 50-member Pentecostal church, the Dover Outreach Center, alongside Imam Muhammad Musri, the president of the Islamic Society of Central Florida, Jones said he relented when Musri assured him that the New York mosque will be moved.

Jones had never invoked the mosque controversy as a reason for his planned protest. He cited his belief that the Quran is evil because it espouses something other than biblical truth and incites radical, violent behavior among Muslims.

But he said Thursday that that he prayed about the decision and concluded that if the mosque was moved, it would be a sign from God to call off the Quran burning.

"We are, of course, now against any other group burning Qurans," Jones said. "We would right now ask no one to burn Qurans. We are absolutely strong on that. It is not the time to do it."

Musri thanked Jones and his church members "for making the decision today to defuse the situation and bring to a positive end what has become the world over a spectacle that no one would benefit from except extremists and terrorists" who would use it to recruit future radicals.

After the news conference, however, Musri told The Associated Press there is no deal to move the mosque. He said there was only an agreement for him and Jones to travel to New York and meet Saturday with the imam overseeing plans to build a mosque near ground zero.

"I told the pastor that I personally believe the mosque should not be there, and I will do everything in my power to make sure it is moved," Musri said. "But there is not any offer from there (New York) that it will be moved. All we have agreed to is a meeting, and I think we would all like to see a peaceful resolution."

In New York, the leader of the Islamic center project, Imam Feisal Abdul Rauf, said he was surprised by Jones' announcement.

"I am glad that Pastor Jones has decided not to burn any Qurans. However, I have not spoken to Pastor Jones or Imam Musri," Rauf said in a statement. "We are not going to toy with our religion or any other. Nor are we going to barter. We are here to extend our hands to build peace and harmony."

Jones later insisted that he had struck a deal, without suggesting that he would go back to his Quran-burning plan in light of the imams' denials. He said Musri told him that officials would guarantee that the mosque would be moved.

"We are canceling the event because we have agreed, I take him at his word, he has agreed to move the Ground Zero mosque," Jones said. "I verified that three or four times with witnesses. I trust that man who gave me that. I believe he is a man of integrity, a man of his word, I do not believe that he lied to me."

Jones said that if the mosque is not moved, "then I think Islam is a very poor example of religion. I think that would be very pitiful. I do not expect that."

His decision comes after a firestorm of criticism from leaders around the world. The pope and several other Christian leaders were among those urging him to reconsider his plans, which generated a wave of anger and criticism across the Muslim world. In Afghanistan, hundreds of angry Afghans burned an American flag and chanted "Death to the Christians" to protest the planned Quran burning.

The cancellation was welcomed in Gainesville, a city of 125,000 anchored by the sprawling University of Florida campus.

"It's very good news for Gainesvilile and good news for everyone involved," said City Manager Russ Blackburn.

Jones' neighbors also have said they disapprove. At least two dozen Christian churches, Jewish temples and Muslim organizations in the city had mobilized to plan inclusive events, including Quran readings at services, as a counterpoint to Jones' protest.

Jones' Dove Outreach Center is independent of any denomination. It follows the Pentecostal tradition, which teaches that the Holy Spirit can manifest itself in the modern day. Pentecostals often view themselves as engaged in spiritual warfare against satanic forces.

Adding to the confusion Thursday was the sudden injection of Donald Trump into the debate over the New York mosque, which is planned to go up two blocks north of the trade center site.

Opponents argue it is insensitive to families and memories of Sept. 11 victims to build a mosque so close to where Islamic extremists flew planes into the World Trade Center and killed nearly 2,800 people. Proponents support the project as a reflection of religious freedom and diversity and say hatred of Muslims is fueling the opposition.

Trump, who made a fortune in real estate, offered Thursday to buy out a major investor in the real estate partnership that controls the site where the 13-story Islamic center would be built.

In a letter released Thursday by Trump's publicist, Trump told Hisham Elzanaty that he would buy his stake in one of the two lower Manhattan buildings involved in the project for 25 percent more than whatever he paid.

"I am making this offer as a resident of New York and citizen of the United States, not because I think the location is a spectacular one (because it is not), but because it will end a very serious, inflammatory, and highly divisive situation that is destined, in my opinion, to only get worse," the letter said.

Trump also attached a condition to his offer: He said that as part of the deal, the backers of the mosque project would need to promise that any new mosque they constructed would be at least five blocks farther away from the World Trade Center site.

Elzanaty's response: No sale.

"This is just a cheap attempt to get publicity and get in the limelight," said his lawyer, Wolodymyr Starosolsky.

He added that the offer's lack of seriousness was evident in the price.

The group collectively paid $4.8 million for the building Trump offered to buy. The other is being leased.

Starosolsky said the real estate partnership had already received two offers in the ballpark of $20 million.

"He knows what the value of the building is. If he were really interested in buying the building, he would have come forward with at least $20 million," Starosolsky said.

Elzanaty added that he remains committed to the idea of having a mosque built on at least part of the property.

It's unclear how much control Elzanaty has over the property, which is owned by an eight-member investment group led by El-Gamal's real estate company, Soho Properties.

El-Gamal said Soho Properties controls the site, but didn't elaborate. His spokesman said he couldn't answer questions about the investment team or ownership issues.

In a pair of interviews with the AP this week, Elzanaty said he had invested in the site with an intention of making a profit and was willing to half the land for private development, and maybe all of it if a Muslim group doesn't come forward with enough money to build the mosque.

Call me cynical, but I think there is a chance of some good to come from all of this nonsense. For a man who says Islam is of the devil, there is a photo of him shaking the hand of a local imam:

[hongi]

He has a congregation of 30. Talk about blowing things up out of proportion.

[FSTargetDrone]

Burn back on! Or not!

Quran burning on again? Florida pastor says maybe

'Back to square one,' Jones says after imam denies there's a deal to move NYC Islamic center

NBC, msnbc.com and news services

updated 21 minutes ago

GAINESVILLE, Fla. — The Florida pastor whose plan to burn Qurans on Sept. 11 generated worldwide outrage among Muslims and pressure by the U.S. government to relent said late Thursday that he might not call off the protest after all.

Pastor Terry Jones told NBC News that "we are a little back to square one" after a supposed deal involving a proposed Islamic cultural center in New York evaporated.

At a press conference Thursday afternoon, Jones had said he was canceling the Quran burning because a Muslim imam had assured him that the proposed Islamic center could be moved away from the World Trade Center site in return.

But the imam proposing to build the Islamic center near the World Trade Center denied that a deal had been struck to move the project.

"I am glad that Pastor Jones has decided not to burn any Qurans," Imam Feisal Abdul Rauf said in a statement. "However, I have not spoken to Pastor Jones or Imam Musri (of Florida). I am surprised by their announcement. We are not going to toy with our religion or any other. Nor are we going to barter. We are here to extend our hands to build peace and harmony."

After that statement, Jones said the Quran burning had only been suspended.

"Given what we are now hearing, we are forced to rethink our decision," Jones said. "So as of right now, we are not canceling the event, but we are suspending it."

Jones wouldn't say if the church would burn Qurans but said "I'm praying" to decide what to do next.

At Jones' first press conference, he appeared with Imam Muhammad Musri of the Islamic Society of Central Florida and said that Musri had told him that the mosque would be moved.

"We are canceling the event because we have agreed, I take him at his word, he has agreed to move the Ground Zero mosque," Jones said. "I verified that three or four times with witnesses. I trust that man who gave me that. I believe he is a man of integrity, a man of his word, I do not believe that he lied to me."

Musri thanked Jones and his church members "for making the decision today to defuse the situation and bring to a positive end what has become the world over a spectacle that no one would benefit from except extremists and terrorists."

But later on "Countdown with Keith Olbermann," Musri said that Jones was wrong about what he had said about the mosque. He said what he offered was a meeting among Jones, the New York imam and himself to talk about moving the mosque if Jones agreed to cancel the Quran burning.

Musri said that he had told Jones that with the ending of the Ramadan holiday, Muslims around the world would be praying at mosques and radical clerics might exploit the Quran burning to foment hatred against Americans. Musri said he told Jones that "time was of the essence" if he was going to cancel the burning.

"I told him clearly I am not in any way connected to the event in New York. I have no control over it. I cannot promise you that it will be moved. But my position is for it to be relocated to a more ideal somewhere we can avoid the controversy that's going on on that site."

Musri said he told Jones he was willing to go to New York to advocate for such a move and that Jones clearly understood there was no deal.

But after the statements by the New York imam and Musri, Jones said they "clearly, clearly lied to us" about moving the mosque.

Jones had been under pressure from the U.S. government to cancel the protest. President Barack Obama, Defense Secretary Robert Gates, Gen. David Petraeus and others had warned that the protest could bring attacks against U.S. troops in Afghanistan and elsewhere.

Earlier Thursday, Obama implored Jones to call off his Quran-burning "stunt," telling ABC's "Good Morning America" in an interview aired Thursday that he hopes Jones listens to "those better angels."

"And as a very practical matter, I just want him to understand that this stunt that he is talking about pulling could greatly endanger our young men and women who are in uniform," Obama said.

Jones, leader of a small Pentecostal church with about 30 members in Gainesville, had been planning to burn copies of the Islamic holy book on Saturday, the ninth anniversary of the Sept. 11 attacks.

"Look, this is a recruitment bonanza for al-Qaida," Obama said of the planned burning. "You could have serious violence in places like Pakistan and Afghanistan." The president also said Jones' plan, if carried out, could serve as an incentive for terrorist-minded individuals "to blow themselves up" to kill others.

Jones had said that a call from the Pentagon, State Department or White House might make him reconsider his plan.

On Thursday, Jones said Pentagon chief Robert Gates had called him to urge he back off.

Pentagon Press Secretary Geoff Morrell confirmed the call took place.

"They had a very brief conversation during which he expressed to the pastor his grave concern that going forward would put lives at risk, especially in Iraq and Afghanistan. And he urged him not to proceed with it," Morrell said.

The decision for Gates to make the call was a "collective" one, according to Morrell, but he did not elaborate.

"If that phone call could potentially save the life of one man or woman in uniform then it is a call worth placing," he said.

Obama has gotten caught up in the burgeoning controversy surrounding the practice of Islam in America, saying at one point that he believed that Muslims had a right to build a mosque near the site of the Sept. 11 terror attacks in New York City.

The State Department is cautioning Americans worldwide that there is a "high potential" for violent anti-American demonstrations if the church goes through with its plans. Officials noted that demonstrations have already been reported in Afghanistan and Indonesia and they urged Americans abroad to avoid areas where protesters might gather.

NBC News' Kerry Sanders and Courtney Kube contributed to this article, which includes reporting from The Associated Press and Reuters.

I wonder how much it hurts when he thinks.

[Solauren]

If they honestly believe it's a national security issue...

Why not walk up to the church with a group of say, 200 national guard.

And tell him: They will not prevent him from attempting the burning, as it's his right. However, if he decides to go ahead and do it, they will stop him, as that action puts the lives of the United States servicepeople, and it's citizens aboard, in danger.

If he calls them on it, arrest him. I'm sure between now and Saturday, the proper people could come up with a charge to nail him with.