Earth in the 2nd to 30th Millenium (40k)

[Stravo]

In the 40k rulebook there is a timeline describing events in human history up through the current 40th millenium. Of course the earliest stuff is foggy as to be expected but I noticed a distinct lack of contact with xenos races or Chaos during this time frame. It's almost as if none of the major antagonists of mankind decided to rear their heads until humanity had already established itself as a major power.

If you look at some of the fluff maps you will see that the Eye of Terror is in the same galactic arm as Terra and pretty much a figurative hop skip and a jump away. But wait Stravo, you say, the Eye of Terror was not created until the Eldar Fall so it shouldn't figure in earlier human history. You're correct but my point is related to what was there before the EoT which would be the very heart of the Eldar empire which in the fluff is stated to be a galactic spanning empire at the time and right before the Fall they were very much like the Dark Eldar - nasty, brutish and in it for pleasure. Why weren't they raiding puny little Earth right next door then?

And we come to the Orks. A current Ork Codex map shows Ork Waaghs raging throughout the galaxy. Their numbers are vast. Yet in the distant past not a peep. Why didn't an Ork Waagh descend on poor hapless Earth in the 21st century? In Medieval times even? Where were the Orks?

Then there is Chaos. Current fluff makes it seem like Chaos is banging down the front door of the Imperium. You can't throw a stone and not hit three psykers who are channelling some sort of demon threat. Yet not a peep out of Chaos during such dark times as the Mongol Invasions, WWI, WWII, Black Death. The current Chaos Space Marine Codex does make mention of a demon Prince who was creeping around on Earth since medival times but that's the only mention

In essence I'm asking why Earth was relatively sheltered from all of these potential threats until they started the Great Crusade?

[Interlord1]

I think the Chaos one was explained with the fact that there were very few psykers on Earth in that timeframe, I think anyway. I could be wrong. But for the others, i'm not sure.

[Sinewmire]

As for Chaos, I believe the fall of the Eldar civilisation calmed the warp for some time, Slaanesh's existance putting the four powers into a sort of balance. As previously suggested, psykers were a lot rarer, but you can probably trace a lot of earth stories - "Seytaan" witchcraft, and so forth, to the warp. In the 40k universe, those burned as witches in the medieval period, may have been witches.

[OmegaChief]

If you look at some of the fluff maps you will see that the Eye of Terror is in the same galactic arm as Terra and pretty much a figurative hop skip and a jump away. But wait Stravo, you say, the Eye of Terror was not created until the Eldar Fall so it shouldn't figure in earlier human history. You're correct but my point is related to what was there before the EoT which would be the very heart of the Eldar empire which in the fluff is stated to be a galactic spanning empire at the time and right before the Fall they were very much like the Dark Eldar - nasty, brutish and in it for pleasure. Why weren't they raiding puny little Earth right next door then??

Not quite like the Dark Eldar, after all those who would become the Craftworld Eldar lived with them in that exact same civilsiation for thousands of years.

Simpley put the Eldar empire was decadent, with machines and so one to take care of all thier labour, jsut sitting back and enjoying whatever they want, as time went on they gradualy became more pervetered adn extreme, until eventually it led to the split between the. Eldar factions and the Fall, with the little Slaaneshi voice in teh back of teh Dark Eldars mind steadly exagerating and further perverting the Dark Eldar.

And we come to the Orks. A current Ork Codex map shows Ork Waaghs raging throughout the galaxy. Their numbers are vast. Yet in the distant past not a peep. Why didn't an Ork Waagh descend on poor hapless Earth in the 21st century? In Medieval times even? Where were the Orks?

Entirly possible that the pre-fall Eldar Empire kept Ork numbers in check, or perhaps it was blind luck? Who knows.

Then there is Chaos. Current fluff makes it seem like Chaos is banging down the front door of the Imperium. You can't throw a stone and not hit three psykers who are channelling some sort of demon threat. Yet not a peep out of Chaos during such dark times as the Mongol Invasions, WWI, WWII, Black Death. The current Chaos Space Marine Codex does make mention of a demon Prince who was creeping around on Earth since medival times but that's the only mention

Because the Warp wasn't always as it was now, it was actually reletivly calm for most of galactic history, it only seems to be have rendered into it's current state post Eldar Fall, which triggered massive warp storms galaxy wide, which contributed to the fall of the previous human civiisations.

And indeed after that it became reletivly quiet and peacful again until the horus heresy happened, which the Imperium is still feeling the effects of in the 41st Millenium.

In essence I'm asking why Earth was relatively sheltered from all of these potential threats until they started the Great Crusade?

Hey the Emperor was around after all, maybe His will protected Earth or somthing.

[Ghost Rider]

In the 40k rulebook there is a timeline describing events in human history up through the current 40th millenium. Of course the earliest stuff is foggy as to be expected but I noticed a distinct lack of contact with xenos races or Chaos during this time frame. It's almost as if none of the major antagonists of mankind decided to rear their heads until humanity had already established itself as a major power.

If you look at some of the fluff maps you will see that the Eye of Terror is in the same galactic arm as Terra and pretty much a figurative hop skip and a jump away. But wait Stravo, you say, the Eye of Terror was not created until the Eldar Fall so it shouldn't figure in earlier human history. You're correct but my point is related to what was there before the EoT which would be the very heart of the Eldar empire which in the fluff is stated to be a galactic spanning empire at the time and right before the Fall they were very much like the Dark Eldar - nasty, brutish and in it for pleasure. Why weren't they raiding puny little Earth right next door then?

Either was never a real consideration or the Emperor of Man working his mojo.

And we come to the Orks. A current Ork Codex map shows Ork Waaghs raging throughout the galaxy. Their numbers are vast. Yet in the distant past not a peep. Why didn't an Ork Waagh descend on poor hapless Earth in the 21st century? In Medieval times even? Where were the Orks?

Actually they do note the Eldar keeping the Orks down to a pitiful level. Something to consider in comparison for IoM and the Eldar.

Then there is Chaos. Current fluff makes it seem like Chaos is banging down the front door of the Imperium. You can't throw a stone and not hit three psykers who are channelling some sort of demon threat. Yet not a peep out of Chaos during such dark times as the Mongol Invasions, WWI, WWII, Black Death. The current Chaos Space Marine Codex does make mention of a demon Prince who was creeping around on Earth since medival times but that's the only mention

In essence I'm asking why Earth was relatively sheltered from all of these potential threats until they started the Great Crusade?

Sadly, the only real idea is that there were not many psykers, and the Emperor working his mojo.

[Star Wars 888]

Semi off topic: IDK much about 40K, but is the Imperium or whatever they call themselves the good guys or the bad guys?

[Black Admiral]

Semi off topic: IDK much about 40K, but is the Imperium or whatever they call themselves the good guys or the bad guys?

40K doesn't really do factions who're good in totality. Some of the Space Marine Chapters, Guard regiments, parts of the Adeptus Mechanicus & Inquisition could be called good, but by modern standards, the Imperium as a whole is horrific - and only saved by the fact that its' enemies are, usually, worse. A lot worse.

[Ghost Rider]

Semi off topic: IDK much about 40K, but is the Imperium or whatever they call themselves the good guys or the bad guys?

We use this thing called google instead of spamming posts. But to answer it because I'm bored.

Space Elves/Eldar: Consider all races below them. Willing to have billions killed as long as their kin survive. Angsty bunch of snotheads.

Dark Elves/Dark Eldar: Add sex and bondage to above.

Orks: Drunken Soccer fans with lasers.

Imperium: An empire ruled by fear and religion making anything we have look rather tame

Chaos: Demons and other happy stuff.

Tau: Space Commies

Tyranids: Space Ants on crack.

Necrons: Super AI mindless drone soldiers mixed with star gods

There is no *good*, it's all a matter of which aesthetic you like best and which idealogy you agree with more.

[Imperial528]

Well, the Tau are really the closest to "good", since they're pretty much the lightest shade of gray in the mix. Mostly because they will not destroy civilizations they encounter outright as they others in the mix will.

[IvanTih]

Well, the Tau are really the closest to "good", since they're pretty much the lightest shade of gray in the mix. Mostly because they will not destroy civilizations they encounter outright as they others in the mix will.

If you disagree they'll invade you and force you to be part of them(I think that it's mentioned in the Heroes of the Space Marines that Tau did commit genocides).

[Hawkwings]

And once they take over, they'll allow you to join up or continue living your normal life. Except that they've sterilized your entire population so that in a generation or two, it won't matter anyways.

[Bedlam]

My understanding of the pre imperium history mostly from the Rogue Traider history is something like: -

Today to 10K - Slow sublight expansion via sleeper ship into the nearby systems. Humanity might have been to small to be noticable, got lucky, or protected by the Emperor.

10K-20K - Warp travel invented, discovered, stolen, etc. Humanity starts to spread out meets other races, fights other races, wins, looses etc. Later the Navigator gene and STC is invented and humanity quickly spreads out throughout the galaxy to be found everywhere.

20K - 30K - Things go very, very, bad

> 30K - Things get even worse

I remember something about Humans and Orcs meeting for the first time and just not likeing each other.

[Black Admiral]

Well, the Tau are really the closest to "good", since they're pretty much the lightest shade of gray in the mix. Mostly because they will not destroy civilizations they encounter outright as they others in the mix will.

If you disagree they'll invade you and force you to be part of them(I think that it's mentioned in the Heroes of the Space Marines that Tau did commit genocides).

Not mentioned in HotSM that I can recall, but it is in Sons of Dorn (the infamous dick Commander Brightsword massacring the entire population of Nimbosa for, well, no particular reason that I know of - maybe he was just feeling murderous that morning). Yes, though, the Tau don't really offer a choice; you either join the Greater Good, or you'll be made to join it.

[IvanTih]

Not mentioned in HotSM that I can recall, but it is in Sons of Dorn (the infamous dick Commander Brightsword massacring the entire population of Nimbosa for, well, no particular reason that I know of - maybe he was just feeling murderous that morning). Yes, though, the Tau don't really offer a choice; you either join the Greater Good, or you'll be made to join it.

Yeah,I confused that due the fact that an Imperial Fist said that.

I remember something about Humans and Orcs meeting for the first time and just not likeing each other.

That from Rogue Trader Rulebook,1st edition fluff.

[Darksider]

And once they take over, they'll allow you to join up or continue living your normal life. Except that they've sterilized your entire population so that in a generation or two, it won't matter anyways.

Is there actual fluff depicting the forced sterilization? Because the only place I can ever recall it being mentioned is in the Tau Epilogue to Dark Crusade, and that's a statement from an imperial source, which can hardly be considered un-biased.

[dworkin]

My bet is based on the Eldar being big on fortelling the future and all. They knew something horrible, truly horrible would come boiling out of the system one day and just declared it off-limits to everything they thought might cause such a thing. The 'keep of the grass' sign was enforced by warships. As a result, nothing disturbed Sol and her planets except the occasional Eldar guard taking a picture of Saturn because it looks pretty.

The idea that the truly horrible thing would actually evolve on one of the planets independant of any outside meddling never occured to them.

[starfury]

And once they take over, they'll allow you to join up or continue living your normal life. Except that they've sterilized your entire population so that in a generation or two, it won't matter anyways.

That doesn't change the fact that they are polite enough to ask before blasting you to smithermeens and sterlizing you right from the start, something the imperium finds even the pretense of to be too much of a hassle, they do the same for smaller alien powers after all and then exterminate them later, The Tau behavior seems more a matter of good form then any real difference in morality, they were just more polite about grinding you into the dirt then the Imperium.

[Imperial528]

Well, the Tau are really the closest to "good", since they're pretty much the lightest shade of gray in the mix. Mostly because they will not destroy civilizations they encounter outright as they others in the mix will.

If you disagree they'll invade you and force you to be part of them(I think that it's mentioned in the Heroes of the Space Marines that Tau did commit genocides).

As compared to what happens when everyone else disagrees with you: death. Tau are still gray, just a lighter gray.

[fgalkin]

I fail to see the distinction between genocide now, and genocide a generation down the road. Obviously, there's a difference to the Tau, as it's massively easier for them. But for the victims of genocide? Extinction is extinction.

Have a very nice day.
-fgalkin

[Commander 598]

And once they take over, they'll allow you to join up or continue living your normal life. Except that they've sterilized your entire population so that in a generation or two, it won't matter anyways.

Is there actual fluff depicting the forced sterilization? Because the only place I can ever recall it being mentioned is in the Tau Epilogue to Dark Crusade, and that's a statement from an imperial source, which can hardly be considered un-biased.

To say nothing of the fact that the planet had turned traitor back to the Imperium as soon as anyone showed up.

Also this would fly right in the face of the all humans and their descendant that were left behind after the Damocles Gulf Crusade.

[dworkin]

Does it say anywhere why Tau sterilise captured populations? Is it a case of, "Welcome to the Greater Good, <hiss>", or "As a result of your continued attempts to resist the Greater Good we sterilise you so that you won't raise future disruptions.", or is it even the first with the promise of a counter-agent when the indiviual reaches some level of trustworthiness / understanding of the GG?

[Stravo]

IMO Tau are simply another version of evil with a sugary sweet topping to make them seem more palatable but just because their methods are a little less objectionable doesn't mean their goals are not the same as the Imperium's. In fact it's almost like a twisted mirror version of the Imperium on the Great Crusade. "We're reuniting humanity - whether they like it or not."

[IvanTih]

IMO Tau are simply another version of evil with a sugary sweet topping to make them seem more palatable but just because their methods are a little less objectionable doesn't mean their goals are not the same as the Imperium's. In fact it's almost like a twisted mirror version of the Imperium on the Great Crusade. "We're reuniting humanity - whether they like it or not."

Yeah,but they're alien(pro-human sarcasam),Imperium although opressive during the Great Crusade was progressive in sense of advancing technology and freeing humanity from the superstition and chaos.
Even better it was lead by the Emperor the man who only wanted best for humanity(Legion has a different view on him and remember short story The Last Church and although he was opressive he was the only who could protect countless human planets).

[Ghost Rider]

IMO Tau are simply another version of evil with a sugary sweet topping to make them seem more palatable but just because their methods are a little less objectionable doesn't mean their goals are not the same as the Imperium's. In fact it's almost like a twisted mirror version of the Imperium on the Great Crusade. "We're reuniting humanity - whether they like it or not."

But they haz the mecha!!!

Really, the only faction that didn't seem as completely fucking assholish was the dwarv...I mean Squats. But then they got hit by the GW beam, and thus lost into the void.

[IvanTih]

IMO Tau are simply another version of evil with a sugary sweet topping to make them seem more palatable but just because their methods are a little less objectionable doesn't mean their goals are not the same as the Imperium's. In fact it's almost like a twisted mirror version of the Imperium on the Great Crusade. "We're reuniting humanity - whether they like it or not."

But they haz the mecha!!!

Really, the only faction that didn't seem as completely fucking assholish was the dwarv...I mean Squats. But then they got hit by the GW beam, and thus lost into the void.

Personally I think that the Imperium and Inquisition eliminated them(how the hell are Nids are going to attack planets which appear to have no life).
Another theory from this guy is that they run the Adeptus Mechanicus(read his fanfluff sometimes it can be good and he's an awesome artist).
http://philipsibbering.com/blog/2010/07/retcon-squats/