Why Nothing About the Pakistan Flood?

[Sarevok]

The real question is why has not Pakistan disintegrated by now ?

[Fingolfin_Noldor]

The real question is why has not Pakistan disintegrated by now ?

That's obvious, isn't it? The military.

Not least, Pakistan gets substantial aid from China.

[Zaune]

You might all be interested to know that interest in the plight of millions of starving, desperate Pakistani refugees has tailed off abruptly in the British media on account of three of their national cricket team taking backhanders from a crooked bookmaker to provide foul balls on demand.

Oh, how I love my country...

[weemadando]

You might all be interested to know that interest in the plight of millions of starving, desperate Pakistani refugees has tailed off abruptly in the British media on account of three of their national cricket team taking backhanders from a crooked bookmaker to provide foul balls on demand.

Oh, how I love my country...

Reallly? It took that long for the British press to lose interest?

Then again, we've had a run of casualties in Afghanistan of late, so any sympathy for the devil news stories would have seemed incongruous to all those wonderful folks at 7, 9 and 10. Thankfully we still have ABC and SBS.

[Fingolfin_Noldor]

I have a suspicion that the cricket scandal has more sound bites in Pakistan than the flooding.

[Sarevok]

I have a suspicion that the cricket scandal has more sound bites in Pakistan than the flooding.

You should check out the premier pakistani military forum at defense.pk for an idea of what diehard nationalists think. They want money for the military to buy JF-17 fighters, F-22P Frigates, upgraded their OHP vessels etc. The floods are to quote them "a minor issue", "we survived worst", "a true muslim does not lay down his sword even when starving". It would be surreal if not matched by the American right wing who also demand the US military receive increased funding in midst of great economic trouble. Idiot members of the masses think alike even when continents apart.

Any hope I had for Pakistan has vanished. Pakistanis have no one to blame but themselves. They were handed a great chance at building a great nation and they set a world class example in how to fail.

[Pelranius]

The Chinese will probably end up propping up the country somehow, though I don't think they will go so far as to send in soldiers of their own.

[Fingolfin_Noldor]

I have a suspicion that the cricket scandal has more sound bites in Pakistan than the flooding.

You should check out the premier pakistani military forum at defense.pk for an idea of what diehard nationalists think. They want money for the military to buy JF-17 fighters, F-22P Frigates, upgraded their OHP vessels etc. The floods are to quote them "a minor issue", "we survived worst", "a true muslim does not lay down his sword even when starving". It would be surreal if not matched by the American right wing who also demand the US military receive increased funding in midst of great economic trouble. Idiot members of the masses think alike even when continents apart.

Any hope I had for Pakistan has vanished. Pakistanis have no one to blame but themselves. They were handed a great chance at building a great nation and they set a world class example in how to fail.

They failed because they decided to invest in a nuclear weapons project that essentially bankrupted them all for the fool's dream of keeping up with India.

The sanctions hit them hard, and the end result still resonates. These days they live off charity.

[Sarevok]

I think the unhealthy idea Pakistan can and should compete with India ruined the country from start. It is defeatism in Pakistan to admit "we are damn too small and poor to overcome India". Today the gulf between Pakistan and India has widened to enormous proportion. India is now one of the most important countries in the world and a future global power. Pakistan has degenerated into an economically broke terrorism infested shithole. Yet you have plenty of Pakistanis sincerely believing Pakistan can at least match India militarily and it is the nations destiny to keep the balance of power that way. I think the idea of being rival to a far larger nation as opposed to a cautious small neighbor is what sowed the seeds of Pakistans destruction.

[Zaune]

They might equally have been motivated by the not totally irrational fear that without that nuclear program and their not insignificant conventional forces, India would have either outright annexed them or made them a vassal.
And frankly, they might have been better off that way.

And stories about the Indian sub-continent tend to stay current for quite a while in Britain because we've got strong demographic links with the region; a lot of British citizens have cousins and grandparents in those refugee camps.
Mind you, it was hinted in a few news broadcasts from Pakistan that the cricket scandal has eclipsed news of the flooding there as well; the game seems to have been elevated to just below the level of a religion. That most of the victims seem to have been from the rural working class is probably a contributing factor as well.

[Pelranius]

I think the unhealthy idea Pakistan can and should compete with India ruined the country from start. It is defeatism in Pakistan to admit "we are damn too small and poor to overcome India". Today the gulf between Pakistan and India has widened to enormous proportion. India is now one of the most important countries in the world and a future global power. Pakistan has degenerated into an economically broke terrorism infested shithole. Yet you have plenty of Pakistanis sincerely believing Pakistan can at least match India militarily and it is the nations destiny to keep the balance of power that way. I think the idea of being rival to a far larger nation as opposed to a cautious small neighbor is what sowed the seeds of Pakistans destruction.

Interestingly the Indian military is sort of doing the same thing with buying all these foreign military toys and developing home made versions (the cost will probably be made worse by the nightmare that is the Indian MoD procurement system), though they're still at the point that they could reverse some of the more idiotic purchases if they had the willpower.

[Fingolfin_Noldor]

Interestingly the Indian military is sort of doing the same thing with buying all these foreign military toys and developing home made versions (the cost will probably be made worse by the nightmare that is the Indian MoD procurement system), though they're still at the point that they could reverse some of the more idiotic purchases if they had the willpower.

India is motivated by the need to have parity with China. Pakistan is on the radar, but rates as a lower importance to China.

[Pelranius]

Interestingly the Indian military is sort of doing the same thing with buying all these foreign military toys and developing home made versions (the cost will probably be made worse by the nightmare that is the Indian MoD procurement system), though they're still at the point that they could reverse some of the more idiotic purchases if they had the willpower.

India is motivated by the need to have parity with China. Pakistan is on the radar, but rates as a lower importance to China.

There's really not much the Chinese can do conventionally to India anyways. The PLA troop levels in the TAR are a joke.

[Zaune]

There's really not much the Chinese can do conventionally to India anyways. The PLA troop levels in the TAR are a joke.

Which, in fairness to India, can change very fast if relations with China turn sour. And China's been around long enough that if they needed a casus belli to draw attention away from domestic political woes then they could probably find one.
You can fairly criticise India for doing a bad job of balancing defence spending with healthcare and education and so forth, or for spending too much money on the wrong things, but the strategic threat they're buying all this stuff to protect themselves against does not exist solely in their imaginations.

[Fingolfin_Noldor]

India hasn't forgotten the border war it lost to China. There's no way they are going to forget that.

[UnderAGreySky]

Indeed, Fingolfin - it will be 50 years since then in 2012.

About Pakistan, here's an interesting anecdote.

The 1996 cricket world cup was held in India, Pakistan and Sri Lanka. The finals were in Lahore, and Australia was playing Sri Lanka. My father was a guest there, his only visit to Pakistan yet.

In the break, the floodlights winked out briefly. And yet, in the darkness all he could hear was not "When will the lights be fixed?" but "What will the Indians think of us?".

[Fingolfin_Noldor]

Indeed, Fingolfin - it will be 50 years since then in 2012.

Didn't stop both sides from having missiles aimed at each other.

[Pelranius]

There's really not much the Chinese can do conventionally to India anyways. The PLA troop levels in the TAR are a joke.

Which, in fairness to India, can change very fast if relations with China turn sour. And China's been around long enough that if they needed a casus belli to draw attention away from domestic political woes then they could probably find one.
You can fairly criticise India for doing a bad job of balancing defence spending with healthcare and education and so forth, or for spending too much money on the wrong things, but the strategic threat they're buying all this stuff to protect themselves against does not exist solely in their imaginations.

It's what their spending money on items that are completely extraneous to whatever threat that could come from China and/or Pakistan.

Ten C-17 Globemaster IIIs
280 Su-30 MKI Flankers (150-200 should have been enough, especially if they want to get the PAK-FA and MCA in the future).
P-75 SSK (the Scorpenes are already enough. The PN is a bad joke and fat chance of the PLAN ever coming out to the Indian Ocean on a combat mission. Just concentrate on nuclear submarines).
Now they're trying to buy both the T-90 and the Arjun main battle tanks. I predict a disaster is in the making.
PAK-FA and MCA, again I'm still trying to figure out the rationale for those two R&D programs.
They're also building too many P15A and P15B destroyers. I would suggest cutting down on the P15A procurement and use it as a proof of concept platform, like the IN is sensibly doing with the ATV.

[Aaron]

I'd say the C-17's are money well spent, regardless of the threat from Pakistan or China. If all they wind up doing is flying supplies from one disaster zone to the next for thirty years, they've got their monies worth.