Canadian PM Harper cracks down on...scientists???

N&P: Discuss governments, nations, politics and recent related news here.

Moderators: Alyrium Denryle, Edi, K. A. Pital

IRG CommandoJoe
Sith Devotee
Posts: 3481
Joined: 2002-07-09 12:51pm

Canadian PM Harper cracks down on...scientists???

Post by IRG CommandoJoe »

Canadian climatology has become a classified matter of state, apparently.
The Vancouver Sun wrote: Tightened muzzle on scientists is 'Orwellian'
Documents reveal federal researchers, whose work is financed by taxpayers, need approval from Ottawa before speaking with media
By Margaret Munro, Postmedia News September 13, 2010


The Harper government has tightened the muzzle on federal scientists, going so far as to control when and what they can say about floods at the end of the last ice age.

Natural Resources Canada (NRC) scientists were told this spring they need "pre-approval" from Minister Christian Paradis' office to speak with journalists. Their "media lines" also need ministerial approval, say documents obtained by Postmedia News through access-to-information legislation.

The documents say the "new" rules went into force in March and reveal how they apply to not only to contentious issues including the oilsands, but benign subjects such as floods that occurred 13,000 years ago.

They also give a glimpse of how Canadians are being cut off from scientists whose work is financed by taxpayers, critics say, and is often of significant public interest -- be it about fish stocks, genetically modified crops or mercury pollution in the Athabasca River.

"It's Orwellian," says Andrew Weaver, a climatologist at the University of Victoria. The public, he says, has a right to know what federal scientists are discovering and learning.

Scientists at NRC, many of them planetary experts, study everything from seabeds to melting glaciers. They have long been able to discuss their research, until the rules changed this spring.

"We have new media interview procedures that require pre-approval of certain types of interview requests by the minister's office," wrote Judy Samoil, NRC's western regional communications manager, in a March 24 e-mail to colleagues.

The policy applies to "high-profile" issues such as "climate change, oilsands" and when "the reporter is with an international or national media organization (such as the CBC or the Canwest paper chain)," she wrote.

The Canwest papers are now part of Postmedia Network Inc.

Samoil later elaborated, saying "the regional communications managers were advised of this change a couple of weeks ago."

The documents show the new rules being so broadly applied that one scientist was not permitted to discuss a study in a major research journal without "pre-approval" from political staff in Paradis' office.

NRC scientist Scott Dallimore coauthored the study, published in the journal Nature on April 1, about a colossal flood that swept across northern Canada 13,000 years ago, when massive ice dams gave way at the end of the last ice age.

The study was considered so newsworthy that two British universities issued releases to alert the international media.

It was, however, deemed so sensitive in Ottawa that Dallimore, who works at NRC's laboratories outside Victoria, was told he had to wait for clearance from the minister's office.

Dallimore tried to tell the department's communications managers the flood study was anything but politically sensitive.

"This is a blue sky science paper," he said noting: "There are no anticipated links to minerals, energy or anthropogenic climate change."

But the bureaucrats in Ottawa insisted. "We will have to get the minister's office approval before going ahead with this interview," Patti Robson, the department's media relations manager, wrote in an e-mail after a reporter from Postmedia News (then Canwest News Service) approached Dallimore.

Robson asked Dallimore to provide the reporter's questions and "the proposed responses," saying: "We will send it up to MO (minister's office) for approval." Robson said interviews about the flood study needed ministerial approval for two reasons: the inquiring reporter represented a "national news outlet" and the "subject has wide-ranging implications."

The documents show several communications managers, policy advisers, political staff and senior officials were involved drafting and vetting "media lines" on the ancient flood study.

Dallimore finally got clearance to talk to reporters from Margaux Stastny, director of communication in Paradis' office, on March 31, a week after NRC communications branch was told the study was appearing in Nature, and two days after reporters began approaching Dallimore for interviews.

By then, the reporters' deadlines had passed and they had already completed their stories about the ancient flood. Canwest News Service, CBC, ABC, Reuters and other organizations based their reports on interviews with co-authors of the study from universities outside Canada that responded to interview requests promptly.

This effectively "muzzled" Dallimore by not allowing him to do timely interviews, says Weaver, at the University of Victoria, who says the incident shows how "ridiculous" the situation has got in Ottawa.

"If you can't get access to a nice, feel-good science story about flooding at the end of last glaciation, can you imagine trying to get access to scientists with information about cadmium and mercury in the Athabasca River? Absolutely impossible," says Weaver, in reference to growing controversy over contaminants downstream from Alberta's oilsands.

Environment Canada and Health Canada now tightly control media access to researchers and orchestrate interviews that are approved.

Environment Canada has even produced "media lines" for federal scientists to stick to when discussing climate studies they have coauthored with Weaver and are based on research paid for through his university grants.

"There is no question that there is an orchestrated campaign at the federal level to make sure that their scientists can't communicate to the public about what they do," says Weaver, adding that the crackdown is seriously undermining morale in federal labs. "Science is about generating new knowledge and communicating it to others."
To me, this sounds outrageous. A real step backwards for Canada and science as a whole. :banghead:

Any thoughts on this, Mr. Wong? Or are you not at liberty to say? :(
Who's the more foolish, the fool or the fool who follows him? -Obi-Wan Kenobi

"In the unlikely event that someone comes here, hates everything we stand for, and then donates a big chunk of money anyway, I will thank him for his stupidity." -Darth Wong, Lord of the Sith

Proud member of the Brotherhood of the Monkey.
User avatar
Alyrium Denryle
Minister of Sin
Posts: 22224
Joined: 2002-07-11 08:34pm
Location: The Deep Desert
Contact:

Re: Canadian PM Harper cracks down on...scientists???

Post by Alyrium Denryle »

Environment Canada has even produced "media lines" for federal scientists to stick to when discussing climate studies they have coauthored with Weaver and are based on research paid for through his university grants.
This is the worst part. Scientists being restricted from speaking to media about research they did while on otherwise independently administered grants through a university. What the fuck canada? Are you trying to spin reality to be most favorable to canada?
GALE Force Biological Agent/
BOTM/Great Dolphin Conspiracy/
Entomology and Evolutionary Biology Subdirector:SD.net Dept. of Biological Sciences


There is Grandeur in the View of Life; it fills me with a Deep Wonder, and Intense Cynicism.

Factio republicanum delenda est
Dillon
Rabid Monkey
Posts: 1017
Joined: 2002-07-03 09:00am
Location: Toronto, Canada

Re: Canadian PM Harper cracks down on...scientists???

Post by Dillon »

Why haven't we voted this fucker out of office yet? I never thought I'd live in a country where scientific discoveries were silenced so that the administration might avoid uncomfortable questions. Disgusting.
User avatar
Solauren
Emperor's Hand
Posts: 10378
Joined: 2003-05-11 09:41pm

Re: Canadian PM Harper cracks down on...scientists???

Post by Solauren »

While a seer mind-boggling crime, this is wonderful ammo to use against him next Federal election.
I've been asked why I still follow a few of the people I know on Facebook with 'interesting political habits and view points'.

It's so when they comment on or approve of something, I know what pages to block/what not to vote for.
User avatar
Aaron
Blackpowder Man
Posts: 12031
Joined: 2004-01-28 11:02pm
Location: British Columbian ExPat

Re: Canadian PM Harper cracks down on...scientists???

Post by Aaron »

Dillon wrote:Why haven't we voted this fucker out of office yet? I never thought I'd live in a country where scientific discoveries were silenced so that the administration might avoid uncomfortable questions. Disgusting.
Because he's good at politics, or the Opposition is a fucking waste of space. Probably both.
M1891/30: A bad day on the range is better then a good day at work.
Image
User avatar
TithonusSyndrome
Sith Devotee
Posts: 2569
Joined: 2006-10-10 08:15pm
Location: The Money Store

Re: Canadian PM Harper cracks down on...scientists???

Post by TithonusSyndrome »

I already posted something about this topic a little while back, albeit before this particular policy had become shaped. The simple fact of the matter is that all of those Bush comparisons people were making towards Harper that used to seem a little hyperbolic, or at least kludgey comparisons of best fit, are becoming more and more apt by the day. He kills the momentum against him each and every time public ire builds with politicking like the proroguing nonsense last winter, and always seems to carry on no worse than before for lack of credible opponents - and in all fairness, I know I certainly feel something amiss in voting for a Liberal party whose leader is an established Iraq war whore.

Just the same, if everyone abroad wanted to start tarring Harper with the Bush brush to damage his reputation and galvanize Canadians from the outside, I'd definitely appreciate it. Americans can consider it repayment of the favor for all the Bush-bashing we did. ;)
Solauren wrote:While a seer mind-boggling crime, this is wonderful ammo to use against him next Federal election.
Yeah, so was the quiet murder of the Afghan torture inquiry in it's crib. When did the opposition ever get the chance to use that to any effect?
Image
User avatar
open_sketchbook
Jedi Master
Posts: 1145
Joined: 2008-11-03 05:43pm
Location: Ottawa

Re: Canadian PM Harper cracks down on...scientists???

Post by open_sketchbook »

There goes the last little bit of respect I have for Harper's government.
1980s Rock is to music what Giant Robot shows are to anime
Think about it.

Cruising low in my N-1 blasting phat beats,
showin' off my chrome on them Coruscant streets
Got my 'saber on my belt and my gat by side,
this here yellow plane makes for a sick ride
IRG CommandoJoe
Sith Devotee
Posts: 3481
Joined: 2002-07-09 12:51pm

Re: Canadian PM Harper cracks down on...scientists???

Post by IRG CommandoJoe »

TithonusSyndrome wrote:He [Harper] kills the momentum against him each and every time public ire builds with politicking like the proroguing nonsense last winter, and always seems to carry on no worse than before for lack of credible opponents - and in all fairness, I know I certainly feel something amiss in voting for a Liberal party whose leader is an established Iraq war whore.
Due to my complete ignorance of Canadian politics, could you explain that a little more? Is the Liberal party the current opposition party to Harper's government?
Just the same, if everyone abroad wanted to start tarring Harper with the Bush brush to damage his reputation and galvanize Canadians from the outside, I'd definitely appreciate it. Americans can consider it repayment of the favor for all the Bush-bashing we did. ;)
While this seems like enough to vote against Harper (if I could since I'm not a Canadian :P ), what else has he done that was bad?
Yeah, so was the quiet murder of the Afghan torture inquiry in it's crib. When did the opposition ever get the chance to use that to any effect?
Another incident I've never heard of. Lil' help? :)
Who's the more foolish, the fool or the fool who follows him? -Obi-Wan Kenobi

"In the unlikely event that someone comes here, hates everything we stand for, and then donates a big chunk of money anyway, I will thank him for his stupidity." -Darth Wong, Lord of the Sith

Proud member of the Brotherhood of the Monkey.
User avatar
TithonusSyndrome
Sith Devotee
Posts: 2569
Joined: 2006-10-10 08:15pm
Location: The Money Store

Re: Canadian PM Harper cracks down on...scientists???

Post by TithonusSyndrome »

IRG CommandoJoe wrote:Due to my complete ignorance of Canadian politics, could you explain that a little more? Is the Liberal party the current opposition party to Harper's government?
Inasmuch as they count as "opposition", yeah. The current leader of the Canadian Liberal party is one Michael Ignatieff, former Harvard professor and author of the Big Book of Why the Iraq War was a Good Thing or something like that. Try reconciling that as a Canadian voter entering the voting station with the intention of wiping Bushism out of Canada.
While this seems like enough to vote against Harper (if I could since I'm not a Canadian :P ), what else has he done that was bad?
He's made a complete cockup of the Chalk River reactor in terms of proceeding with a plausible, realistic replacement for one of Canada's biggest golden gooses, taken us from a surplus to a deficit that has to be at least over $60 billion by now, done his worst to try to finagle some way to reverse the legalization of gay marriage in Canada (and quietly sulked away when it was obvious it wouldn't work), has lent support to the establishment of a "Fox News North" channel, and as alluded to below, he prorogued Parliament just as it looked as though all the other parties were just about ready to take him to task over the issue of the Afghan torture inquiries, killing what brief window of time they were prepared to cooperate under.

There's more, of that I'm certain, but I have to go to class and just thinking about how much longer he's going to be in office without a credible opponent makes me too mad to type.
Image
User avatar
Xisiqomelir
Jedi Council Member
Posts: 1757
Joined: 2003-01-16 09:27am
Location: Valuetown
Contact:

Re: Canadian PM Harper cracks down on...scientists???

Post by Xisiqomelir »

Hilarity.

Can someone familiar with Canadian law tell me if there's a right to freedom of speech that's being violated by this policy?
User avatar
Phantasee
Was mich nicht umbringt, macht mich stärker.
Posts: 5777
Joined: 2004-02-26 09:44pm

Re: Canadian PM Harper cracks down on...scientists???

Post by Phantasee »

What makes you think Harper gives a damn about that? He's the PM who has pretty much eliminated the "scrum" of reporters assailing the PM and other Ministers as they leave the House of Commons by barring them from the hallway (or something like that). Every PM before him would be on the news almost every night having to answer questions with the cameras up in their faces and the microphones close enough to taste.

Harper makes sure he controls all the information going out from his government.
XXXI
User avatar
LaCroix
Sith Acolyte
Posts: 5196
Joined: 2004-12-21 12:14pm
Location: Sopron District, Hungary, Europe, Terra

Re: Canadian PM Harper cracks down on...scientists???

Post by LaCroix »

Aaron wrote: Because he's good at politics, or the Opposition is a fucking waste of space. Probably both.
When I was visiting Toronto, there was this big rage about the '64% Majority', if I remember it right.
What happened to this? Did they break apart before the Parliament had the next session?
A minute's thought suggests that the very idea of this is stupid. A more detailed examination raises the possibility that it might be an answer to the question "how could the Germans win the war after the US gets involved?" - Captain Seafort, in a thread proposing a 1942 'D-Day' in Quiberon Bay

I do archery skeet. With a Trebuchet.
User avatar
Aaron
Blackpowder Man
Posts: 12031
Joined: 2004-01-28 11:02pm
Location: British Columbian ExPat

Re: Canadian PM Harper cracks down on...scientists???

Post by Aaron »

If you mean the Liberals, NDP and BQ teaming up to take him down, then yeah. He suspended Parliament (theres a term for it that I forget) and when they came back the opposition had fallen apart.
M1891/30: A bad day on the range is better then a good day at work.
Image
User avatar
Lagmonster
Master Control Program
Master Control Program
Posts: 7719
Joined: 2002-07-04 09:53am
Location: Ottawa, Canada

Re: Canadian PM Harper cracks down on...scientists???

Post by Lagmonster »

Environment Canada, NR Can, DFO, and Health Canada are the ones who risk leaking information which may challenge the planned conservative political or environmental agendas.
Note: I'm semi-retired from the board, so if you need something, please be patient.
User avatar
SAMAS
Mecha Fanboy
Posts: 4078
Joined: 2002-10-20 09:10pm

Re: Canadian PM Harper cracks down on...scientists???

Post by SAMAS »

Ouch. Sounds like the guy's trying to expand the GOP into Canada. You have my sympathies.
Image
Not an armored Jigglypuff

"I salute your genetic superiority, now Get off my planet!!" -- Adam Stiener, 1st Somerset Strikers
User avatar
MKSheppard
Ruthless Genocidal Warmonger
Ruthless Genocidal Warmonger
Posts: 29842
Joined: 2002-07-06 06:34pm

Re: Canadian PM Harper cracks down on...scientists???

Post by MKSheppard »

Alyrium Denryle wrote:Scientists being restricted from speaking to media about research they did while on otherwise independently administered grants through a university. What the fuck canada?
I dunno, take the king's coin, play by his rules? I believe many corporations and universities also employ this kind of tactic to control what Skientists under their employ can or cannot say.
"If scientists and inventors who develop disease cures and useful technologies don't get lifetime royalties, I'd like to know what fucking rationale you have for some guy getting lifetime royalties for writing an episode of Full House." - Mike Wong

"The present air situation in the Pacific is entirely the result of fighting a fifth rate air power." - U.S. Navy Memo - 24 July 1944
User avatar
Ryan Thunder
Village Idiot
Posts: 4139
Joined: 2007-09-16 07:53pm
Location: Canada

Re: Canadian PM Harper cracks down on...scientists???

Post by Ryan Thunder »

As if I needed another reason not to vote for this fucker. :x
SDN Worlds 5: Sanctum
User avatar
Terralthra
Requiescat in Pace
Posts: 4741
Joined: 2007-10-05 09:55pm
Location: San Francisco, California, United States

Re: Canadian PM Harper cracks down on...scientists???

Post by Terralthra »

MKSheppard wrote:
Alyrium Denryle wrote:Scientists being restricted from speaking to media about research they did while on otherwise independently administered grants through a university. What the fuck canada?
I dunno, take the king's coin, play by his rules? I believe many corporations and universities also employ this kind of tactic to control what Skientists under their employ can or cannot say.
It's not his money. It's the tax-paying public's money, and they should be allowed to actually hear the research for which they paid.
User avatar
Aaron
Blackpowder Man
Posts: 12031
Joined: 2004-01-28 11:02pm
Location: British Columbian ExPat

Re: Canadian PM Harper cracks down on...scientists???

Post by Aaron »

SAMAS wrote:Ouch. Sounds like the guy's trying to expand the GOP into Canada. You have my sympathies.
He's no where near as bad as that.
M1891/30: A bad day on the range is better then a good day at work.
Image
Psawhn
Youngling
Posts: 63
Joined: 2010-08-25 01:33am
Location: Alberta, Canada

Re: Canadian PM Harper cracks down on...scientists???

Post by Psawhn »

Aaron wrote:If you mean the Liberals, NDP and BQ teaming up to take him down, then yeah. He suspended Parliament (theres a term for it that I forget) and when they came back the opposition had fallen apart.
Prorogued.

In case anyone's confused, wants a refresher, or wants to know how the Canadian thing is supposed to work, Rick Mercer had a short on the whole process.

(And there must be something wrong with me because it seems half my posts are links to CBC videos)

And about the OT, it's ridiculous. It sucks that I live in Alberta where the chance of voting the conservatives out is, well, no chance at all.
General Trelane (Retired)
Jedi Knight
Posts: 620
Joined: 2002-07-31 05:27pm
Location: Gothos

Re: Canadian PM Harper cracks down on...scientists???

Post by General Trelane (Retired) »

As has been mentioned by others, Harper is a control freak. But this goes beyond what I expected from him!

Alyrium Denryle wrote:What the fuck canada? Are you trying to spin reality to be most favorable to canada?
No. We're trying to spin reality to be most favourable to the corporations that are felating Harper. Anything inconvenient to that agenda must be suppressed. :wink:

Psawhn wrote:It sucks that I live in Alberta where the chance of voting the conservatives out is, well, no chance at all.
I live in Alberta too, and yet both my MLA and MP are NDP.


Edit: agenda, not adgenda
Time makes more converts than reason. -- Thomas Paine, Common Sense, 1776
User avatar
Einzige
LOLbertarian Douchebag
Posts: 400
Joined: 2010-02-28 01:11pm

Re: Canadian PM Harper cracks down on...scientists???

Post by Einzige »

The State using its monopoly of force (manifested in this case by its power of censorship) to the benefit of the titans of industry and against radicals? Color me shocked.
When the histories are written, I'll bet that the Old Right and the New Left are put down as having a lot in common and that the people in the middle will be the enemy.
- Barry Goldwater

Americans see the Establishment center as an empty, decaying void that commands neither their confidence nor their love. It was not the American worker who designed the war or our military machine. It was the establishment wise men, the academicians of the center.
- George McGovern
User avatar
Alyrium Denryle
Minister of Sin
Posts: 22224
Joined: 2002-07-11 08:34pm
Location: The Deep Desert
Contact:

Re: Canadian PM Harper cracks down on...scientists???

Post by Alyrium Denryle »

Terralthra wrote:
MKSheppard wrote:
Alyrium Denryle wrote:Scientists being restricted from speaking to media about research they did while on otherwise independently administered grants through a university. What the fuck canada?
I dunno, take the king's coin, play by his rules? I believe many corporations and universities also employ this kind of tactic to control what Skientists under their employ can or cannot say.
It's not his money. It's the tax-paying public's money, and they should be allowed to actually hear the research for which they paid.
Agreed. As a matter of fact, it is standard practice for contracted scientists and labs to refuse intellectual property rights for their basic research (as opposed to anything with a patent) to corporations and government offices, and as a result need seek no permission for media interviews. University scientists are also typically never under such a stricture. It is highly unusual (and wrong) for it to be otherwise.
GALE Force Biological Agent/
BOTM/Great Dolphin Conspiracy/
Entomology and Evolutionary Biology Subdirector:SD.net Dept. of Biological Sciences


There is Grandeur in the View of Life; it fills me with a Deep Wonder, and Intense Cynicism.

Factio republicanum delenda est
User avatar
Aaron
Blackpowder Man
Posts: 12031
Joined: 2004-01-28 11:02pm
Location: British Columbian ExPat

Re: Canadian PM Harper cracks down on...scientists???

Post by Aaron »

Einzige wrote:The State using its monopoly of force (manifested in this case by its power of censorship) to the benefit of the titans of industry and against radicals? Color me shocked.
You should be, it's not common in Canada for this to happen.
M1891/30: A bad day on the range is better then a good day at work.
Image
User avatar
Fiji_Fury
Padawan Learner
Posts: 348
Joined: 2006-09-11 12:42am
Location: Alberta, Canada

Re: Canadian PM Harper cracks down on...scientists???

Post by Fiji_Fury »

To those of you asking about Harper's track record I submit the following:

1) Immediately after being first elected, he and his government made a big deal about concensus-building leadership and negotiation. No more than two weeks later, he told Provincial Premiers who demanded he hold firm to his election promises not to interfere with energy royalties that they could take him to court on the issue. No discussion, no debate - just a straight challenge to hash out a legal fight if they wanted to deal with him.

2) The man has a degree from the University of Calgary in Economics. Keep this in mind, because both he and his government adamantly insisted that Canada was not in a recession, and would feel little or no impact from the "Global economic downturn" (the cowards couldn't call it what it was) even into the Fall of 2008, when employment, GDP and other economic data clearly demonstrated that he was wrong. The value of a PM who either blatantly lies about the economy or is utterly incompetent in the field of his educational specialty = 0.

3) His government has silenced and/or dismissed a long string of federal employees who did not hold the Conservative party line on policy. Scientists at Environment Canada have been leashed with the policies noted in the article starting this thread, and they are far from alone.

4) Just recently he and his ministers left the intential impression that their desire to scrap the mandatory long-form census in Canada was supported by the head of Statistics Canada. This is blatantly false, as demonstrated by the resignation of the now former federal employee. On CBC radio Thursday, September 9th that former senior StatCan employee stated that he could not continue as an employee when the government was suggesting he had made a statement no statistician on Earth could call defensible. It was very clear that he did not share the Conservative governments view on scrapping the long-form census, and his decision to quit had been intended to draw attention to the actions of the government and the risk of losing quality, detailed, reliable data that scrapping the long-form census would cause.

5) Proroguing Parliament. Twice. Not only did Harper temporarily suspend the sitting democratically elected government of our nation, but he did it two times in little more than 12 months - both times when opposition parties were preparing publically to vote against confidence measures of his government. In a parliamentary system, if the Parliament defeats a confidence motion (such as a budget for example) the government must resign and an election needs to be called. Consider this point carefully - Stephen Harper effectively ordered that government pause its business at a time when the majority of MP's were prepared to defeat his government. He prevented democratic votes by the legitimately elected representatives of the people of Canada. He did so apparently because those votes would be politically inconvenient and might force him out of power. This is an astonishing lack of accountability for a man and party which ran hard on a values-based ticket of accountable and transparent government.

These incidents are but a sampling of the Harper Government's lack of integrity and contempt for democratic accountability. Rest assured the details are more damning than I have presented and the number of cases indicating Harper's objectionable conduct are in fact longer than presented here. He is a clever political leader, with highly coordinated PR and party messaging. In terms of substantive policies the Conservatives are a mixed bag, like most political parties, but Harper himself has demonstrated what amounts to a shocking lack of accountability or tolerance for contrary opinions. He is poison and his party needs to be voted out of office at the next opportunity.
Post Reply