Another victim of genital barbarism

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Another victim of genital barbarism

Post by Justforfun000 »

At least it's getting more media attention everytime someone has a cause to bring out the arguments. I get so angry and frustrated that people dig their heels in about this subject so much. You can see it in many comments left by readers on the different news agencies. I am tolerant with people who honestly think it's better, cleaner and all of those bullshit lies that were propogated in the past...but I see red when I read people's comments that boil down to..."Yeah I hear that it's painful, I see it's not necessary and it's something he can do later anyway...but ultimately it's not HIS decision it should be the parent and I support someone else's right to make that decision for them".

ARRRRRGGGHH. :banghead:

http://www.miamiherald.com/2010/09/15/1 ... babys.html
Accidental circumcision leads to lawsuit, protest

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BY FRED TASKER
ftasker@MiamiHerald.com

Vera Delgado says she was shocked when she learned last month that her infant son, Mario Viera, was accidentally circumcised without her consent at South Miami Hospital when he was 8 days old.

``Oh, my God,'' Delgado said. ``How could this happen?''

No male in her family has been circumcised for years, she said.

``I didn't want this for him. I'm opposed to circumcision. They didn't have the right to do it.''

The hospital has said it is ``deeply sorry'' and vowed to take steps to prevent the mistake from happening again, but Delgado says that's not enough. She filed suit against the hospital Monday and a criminal battery report with South Miami police Wednesday.

The case of the accidental circumcision quickly created controversy: Delgado's attorney was invited to speak at a national conference on crime victims and has been contacted by media as far away as the United Arab Emirates and anti-circumcision groups, including a local organization planning a demonstration at the hospital Friday.

``It's a big deal,'' Delgado said Wednesday, in her attorney's office. ``In the future, he's going to ask why his dad is one way and he's different.''

Delgado says she signed no consent form for the circumcision, and told doctors and nurses she didn't want it. The hospital said it misread a consent form.

Her Coral Gables attorney, Spencer Aronfeld, filed a civil personal injury lawsuit against the hospital in Miami-Dade Circuit Court Monday, claiming unspecified damages, and a civil battery suit against Dr. Mary Jean Pazos, who Aronfeld said performed the circumcision. Pazos could not be reached for comment Wednesday.

The boy at the center of the dispute is still less than 2 months old. Mario Viera was born at South Miami Hospital July 24, and kept in the intensive care unit so doctors could fight an infection, Delgado says. On Aug. 2, she says she entered his hospital room and noticed a vial lying beside him in his bed. A nurse told her it was Tylenol for the pain from his circumcision.

The hospital later apologized in a prepared statement: ``The baby's circumcision was an unfortunate mistake caused by a misread consent form. As soon as the error was discovered, the doctor and nurses let the family know what had occurred. We also immediately implemented new processes to ensure this mistake will not occur again. The procedure itself was performed following appropriate surgical guidelines and the baby didn't have any complications. Nevertheless, we're all deeply sorry that this happened.''

Male circumcision dates to antiquity, especially among Jewish and Muslim groups. Today, many medical groups take a neutral position on it.

In the United States, infant male circumcision peaked in the 1960s at about 75 percent and has dropped to under 60 percent today, according to the National Health and Social Life Survey and other sources. Newer studies suggest rates may have fallen to as low as 33 percent, said Dr. Lee Sanders, associate professor of pediatrics at the University of Miami Miller School of Medicine.

``As a practicing pediatrician, my rates have dropped steadily ever since 1999, when the American Academy of Pediatrics changed its position from positive to something more neutral,'' he said.

The AAP website today says: ``Scientific studies show some medical benefits of circumcision. However, these benefits are not sufficient for the AAP to recommend that all infant boys be circumcised.''

The American Academy of Family Physicians website takes a similar position: ``Studies about the benefits of circumcision have provided conflicting results. The AAFP believes parents should discuss with their son's doctor the potential benefits and the risks involved when making their decision.''

NOCIRC South Florida, a local anti-circumcision group, plans an all-day demonstration Friday at South Miami Hospital, according to member Enith Hernandez. The group's website, www.asnatureintended.info, calls infant circumcision ``very painful'' and ``not medically necessary.''

Georganne Chapin, president of Intact America, another anti-circumcision group that has contacted Aronfeld, said her group opposes the procedure even for religious purposes.

``Nobody has the right to remove a healthy body part from another person,'' she said. ``Babies are not born with a set of religious beliefs.'' The U.S. Centers for Disease Control and Prevention has added to the controversy by initiating a process to come up with its own recommendation about infant male circumcision -- with hints it might become more favorable to it because research has shown it can reduce the risk of HIV infection during sex.

Aronfeld, who spoke on the topic of circumcision at the annual conference of the National Center for Victims of Crime in New Orleans on Tuesday, said he is trying to not to express his own opinion on the procedure.

But he added: ``So many people are opposed to circumcision,'' he said. ``I think there's a groundswell here.''


Read more: http://www.miamiherald.com/2010/09/15/1 ... z0znqSTo3r
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Re: Another victim of genital barbarism

Post by Liberty »

Oh my god. If that were my kid, I would be so freaking angry I'm afraid I might actually hurt someone!
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Re: Another victim of genital barbarism

Post by Kanastrous »

It seems to me that the source of upset revolves around the parent's decision not being honored, rather than anything to do with circumcision itself. So this is still a parent-wanting-to-make-a-decision-on-their-child's-behalf, just from the other direction.

If it's practical and the kid wants it, I hope that foreskin-restoration is possible. And of course the hospital should pick up the tab, should the time come to do it.
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Re: Another victim of genital barbarism

Post by Skgoa »

``In the future, he's going to ask why his dad is one way and he's different.''
I don't want to derail the thread, but does this actually ever happen? :wtf:
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Re: Another victim of genital barbarism

Post by Terralthra »

Skgoa wrote:
``In the future, he's going to ask why his dad is one way and he's different.''
I don't want to derail the thread, but does this actually ever happen? :wtf:
I haven't ever heard of it happening, though I was circumsized for that exact same reason. Very irritating reason to perform surgery.
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Re: Another victim of genital barbarism

Post by Crossroads Inc. »

I really can't think of anyone I know who is upset that they were NOT circumcised.

I mean... If you arn't, you can do it latter if you want. Want yourself snipped? No problem... But when you ARE snipped, its not exactly somethign that is easy to fix. Restoration is a long and costly process.

Of course as others have said this is a situation of the hospital not following what seems to have been CLEARLY laid out by the parent. Even if it was reversed, let us say the aprent DID what her kid cicumcised, and he wasn't. Well she would be upset, but then get it fixed and the kid cut.

But it is a different story the other way around.

I am sure there are others out there who know this far better then I, but hopsitals in the US have a histroy of doing this and then going "Golly gee whiz, our bad! We sure won't let it happen again!" Until it does. The fact that they put out "We are sorry it happend, but the operation was ok and no problems happened!" Just makes me rolls my eyes because there ARE kids out there were a circumcision goes wrong and they recieve Terrible Terrible damage that lasts a lifetime.
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Re: Another victim of genital barbarism

Post by Kanastrous »

Every time I read the thread title I am beset by visions of a horde of penises wearing furs and little horned helmets storming the gates of Rome. I guess 'genital barbarism' suggests different things to different people...

...not that I don't understand the intent of the title. But still...
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Re: Another victim of genital barbarism

Post by Justforfun000 »


Every time I read the thread title I am beset by visions of a horde of penises wearing furs and little horned helmets storming the gates of Rome. I guess 'genital barbarism' suggests different things to different people...

...not that I don't understand the intent of the title. But still...
Hehe. Sorry. Don't exactly know where I came up with that. It seemed to flow at the time... :D
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Re: Another victim of genital barbarism

Post by loomer »

Skgoa wrote:
``In the future, he's going to ask why his dad is one way and he's different.''
I don't want to derail the thread, but does this actually ever happen? :wtf:
I asked mine when I was like, 4.
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Re: Another victim of genital barbarism

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Kanastrous wrote:Every time I read the thread title I am beset by visions of a horde of penises wearing furs and little horned helmets storming the gates of Rome. I guess 'genital barbarism' suggests different things to different people...

...not that I don't understand the intent of the title. But still...
Damn you, Kanastrous, now that image is in my head, and I'm overcome by giggling fits. Oh god, the Romans are walking vaginae in a legion, all of them equipped with those medieval penis-trap anti-rape condom thingies now. Arrrgh! >_<




That aside, I hope the hospital in the OP gets the cocks sued off of them. The idea that you can perform surgery by accident is as infuriating as the fact that this barbarity is allowed to progress on sheer fucking inertia.
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Re: Another victim of genital barbarism

Post by Kanastrous »

ShadowDragon8685 wrote:


That aside, I hope the hospital in the OP gets the cocks sued off of them.
Or at least the last half-inch or so, of their cocks...

...to the degree there's a bright side, at least a limb didn't get removed by mistake. That's been known to happen.
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Re: Another victim of genital barbarism

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Please, please please tell me you're speaking of a fuck-up in a different context, not that hospitals have ever botched a circumcision so horribly that it turned into the amputation of a limb.
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Re: Another victim of genital barbarism

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ShadowDragon8685 wrote:Please, please please tell me you're speaking of a fuck-up in a different context, not that hospitals have ever botched a circumcision so horribly that it turned into the amputation of a limb.
My little brother had a botched circumcision. He was an identical twin, and that's how my mom told the two of them apart when they were babies. I don't think the botching was bad enough to actually impair any function, though.
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Re: Another victim of genital barbarism

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Crossroads Inc. wrote:I am sure there are others out there who know this far better then I, but hopsitals in the US have a histroy of doing this and then going "Golly gee whiz, our bad! We sure won't let it happen again!" Until it does. The fact that they put out "We are sorry it happend, but the operation was ok and no problems happened!" Just makes me rolls my eyes because there ARE kids out there were a circumcision goes wrong and they recieve Terrible Terrible damage that lasts a lifetime.
Yes, there is somewhat a history of hospitals in US both circumcising without asking first, and circumcising against parental wishes. It is much less common and event than a few decades ago, but it does happen.
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Re: Another victim of genital barbarism

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ShadowDragon8685 wrote:Please, please please tell me you're speaking of a fuck-up in a different context, not that hospitals have ever botched a circumcision so horribly that it turned into the amputation of a limb.
Um... yes, that has happened. The most notable case occurred in Canada. If you really want to know more I can tell you, but since you seemed squicked already I refrain from volunteering any further information.

If you're curious, though, google on "David Reimer".
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Re: Another victim of genital barbarism

Post by Liberty »

Broomstick wrote:
Crossroads Inc. wrote:I am sure there are others out there who know this far better then I, but hopsitals in the US have a histroy of doing this and then going "Golly gee whiz, our bad! We sure won't let it happen again!" Until it does. The fact that they put out "We are sorry it happend, but the operation was ok and no problems happened!" Just makes me rolls my eyes because there ARE kids out there were a circumcision goes wrong and they recieve Terrible Terrible damage that lasts a lifetime.
Yes, there is somewhat a history of hospitals in US both circumcising without asking first, and circumcising against parental wishes. It is much less common and event than a few decades ago, but it does happen.
Oh geez. I am going to be REALLY careful the next time Surlethe and I have a baby. That is NOT going to happen on MY watch!
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Re: Another victim of genital barbarism

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Broomstick wrote:
ShadowDragon8685 wrote:Please, please please tell me you're speaking of a fuck-up in a different context, not that hospitals have ever botched a circumcision so horribly that it turned into the amputation of a limb.
Um... yes, that has happened. The most notable case occurred in Canada. If you really want to know more I can tell you, but since you seemed squicked already I refrain from volunteering any further information.

If you're curious, though, google on "David Reimer".
While the penis is not a limb, that is... I knew that there was such a case, but... Argh! This forum doesn't have an angry enough emoticon to express the boiling rage reading about that again brings up. >_<
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Re: Another victim of genital barbarism

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Liberty wrote:
Broomstick wrote: Yes, there is somewhat a history of hospitals in US both circumcising without asking first, and circumcising against parental wishes. It is much less common and event than a few decades ago, but it does happen.
Oh geez. I am going to be REALLY careful the next time Surlethe and I have a baby. That is NOT going to happen on MY watch!
Ideally, you want a situation where the baby is kept with you, next to you in the same room and not parked in a nursery. However, this sort of thing is very rare these days.

And if you have a girl you won't have to worry about an accidental circumcision at all.
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Re: Another victim of genital barbarism

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Kanastrous wrote:It seems to me that the source of upset revolves around the parent's decision not being honored, rather than anything to do with circumcision itself. So this is still a parent-wanting-to-make-a-decision-on-their-child's-behalf, just from the other direction.
Except the reasons she's angry are the usual arguments against circumcision, and she specifically says she's against it. I think you're just not reading the article carefully enough.
``I didn't want this for him. I'm opposed to circumcision. They didn't have the right to do it.''
``Nobody has the right to remove a healthy body part from another person,'' she said. ``Babies are not born with a set of religious beliefs.''
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Re: Another victim of genital barbarism

Post by K. A. Pital »

I thought the thread would be about a small boy in Russia who recently died during surgery, because his family insisted on circumcision at home for religious reasons.
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Re: Another victim of genital barbarism

Post by Skgoa »

loomer wrote:
Skgoa wrote:
``In the future, he's going to ask why his dad is one way and he's different.''
I don't want to derail the thread, but does this actually ever happen? :wtf:
I asked mine when I was like, 4.
And did it do any terrible terrible damage to you?
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Re: Another victim of genital barbarism

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Nope, though that wasn't really my point. Just saying kids do ask in response to your disbelief.
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Re: Another victim of genital barbarism

Post by Skgoa »

Hm, I didn't actually try to attack you. Its just that I heard that argument from women before. It seems so outlandish to me that it would hurt the child's developpement.
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Re: Another victim of genital barbarism

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Attorneys for the Rights of the Child, an organization that represents families affected by circumcision, has handled over 20 cases of "accidental" circumcision in the past two years. I can only imagine how many really happen if that's the number that seek legal council from their organization.

Someone once said to me "every baby boy born in the USA has a 200 dollar coupon attached to the end of their penis. All the doctor has to do to collect is cut it off." How many other surgeries are performed "by accident" this many times in a 2 year period?
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Re: Another victim of genital barbarism

Post by Crossroads Inc. »

Skgoa wrote:Hm, I didn't actually try to attack you. Its just that I heard that argument from women before. It seems so outlandish to me that it would hurt the child's developpement.[i/]


That... That is a very touche subject,
On the one hand,having your foreskin removed may not change your development, especially if done as a baby.
I didn't even know what foreskin WAS till sex-ed class in 8th grade. Did it change me? How I grew up? Who can say.
But, do I wish I HAD my Foreskin? Hell yes. Does virtually all men I know wish they had their foreskin back? Also Hell yes.

Now, the REAL sticker is, as others have mentioned, when circumcisions "Go wrong". As a baby, having a circumcisions may or may not change how that child grows up, BUT, when it goes wrong, as other have said you have everything from a mutilated penis to having it totally amputated.

THAT is the main point, that something that is totally unnecessary in terms of health to a person,. can lead to the amputation of your sexual organ.
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