Another victim of genital barbarism

[Superboy]

But, do I wish I HAD my Foreskin? Hell yes. Does virtually all men I know wish they had their foreskin back? Also Hell yes.

The practice of circumcision is indeed barbaric and should be stopped, but let's not paint the argument as something it's not. Given the incredibly common, almost ubiquitous practice of circumcision in North America, I don't think you can really make an argument that most circumcised men wish they had their foreskin back. It will certainly vary depending on location but in my particular part of Canada, most men are happy to be circumcised and those uncircumcised men are often embarrassed by it. It's a stupid societal stigma but let's not pretend it doesn't exist.

[Cairber]

Which part of Canada are you in? The current highest rate in canada is 44% in Newfoundland. Overall the rate is below 30% if you take all of Canada as a whole. This reflects current sentiments it would seem. If so many were upset with not being circumcised, you would think they would have their kids done. Yet, even if we add 10% for circumcisions not reported (which is generous in your system), below 50% of the population chooses circumcision for their children and only 54% in the area with the highest rate.

(i should note by "current" I mean 2006. I would bet rates are even lower now)

[Kanastrous]

I can't speak for others but I've had the mod and it's a non-issue. I understand what a foreskin is and how it works and the hypotheses as to its development and function but I don't feel a loss for not presently having one attached. Of course I got snipped in infancy; my father-in-law got it done at fifteen and didn't say much beyond it having been unpleasant for a couple of days (of course he's a cultivated hardass, so...)

What about someone who has had it done to correct a phimosis? That would be someone who had it done for good reason, probably well within adult memory who can make an informed report as to whether they feel 'mutilated' post-process as compared to before.

[Cairber]

Of course in the USA, doctors will throw out the phimosis diagnosis from the day of birth to get that circumcision done. I volunteered for a NOCIRC call center for a while and there was at least one a day when I helped them concerning a doctor who tried to use phimosis as a diagnosis on an infant. Of course, they all turn out to be natural connection between the prepuce and penis head. retraction doesn't happen for a while, sometimes into the tween and teen years. Doctors are just quick to call it and recommend circumcision without even giving the option of other methods such as creams or stretching exercises.

[Superboy]

Which part of Canada are you in? The current highest rate in canada is 44% in Newfoundland. Overall the rate is below 30% if you take all of Canada as a whole. This reflects current sentiments it would seem. If so many were upset with not being circumcised, you would think they would have their kids done. Yet, even if we add 10% for circumcisions not reported (which is generous in your system), below 50% of the population chooses circumcision for their children and only 54% in the area with the highest rate.

My point was that personal anecdotes about people we know and how they feel are useless, including my own. In the United States, circumcised men are still in the majority. I was just pointing out that it's ridiculous to try to paint the situation as though circumcised men all wish they had their foreskins back. That doesn't in any way justify circumcising an infant, but let's make that point in a better way than saying "he'll miss his foreskin when he grows up".

[Kanastrous]

Of course in the USA, doctors will throw out the phimosis diagnosis from the day of birth to get that circumcision done. I volunteered for a NOCIRC call center for a while and there was at least one a day when I helped them concerning a doctor who tried to use phimosis as a diagnosis on an infant. Of course, they all turn out to be natural connection between the prepuce and penis head. retraction doesn't happen for a while, sometimes into the tween and teen years. Doctors are just quick to call it and recommend circumcision without even giving the option of other methods such as creams or stretching exercises.

When you say that 'of course, they all turn out to be...' is that based upon second medical opinions obtained by examining the patients?

How's the average effectiveness of the creams and stretching exercises at delivering relief, compared to circumcision?

[Cairber]

We had a running list of physicians that displayed good knowledge of intact care and the normal development of the prepuce. We would recommend them doctors and many would call back to thank or or use the email system. Time and time again it was the same: my son is normal. He is urinating normally. His foreskin is normal. etc. In all my time there, I never had nor heard of one of the infant cases actually being phismosis as first diagnosed; well, actually there was one that had a "pinpoint opening" but it turned out to be another condition and steroid cream did the trick for him.

Creams and stretching are things used at later ages, of course. 4/5 year olds and older typically would be recommended this. Are you looking for studies on their effectiveness? If so:

http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1 ... x/abstract

http://www.jurology.com/article/S0022-5 ... 3/abstract

http://www.goldjournal.net/article/S009 ... 8/abstract

[Aaron]

But, do I wish I HAD my Foreskin? Hell yes. Does virtually all men I know wish they had their foreskin back? Also Hell yes.

The practice of circumcision is indeed barbaric and should be stopped, but let's not paint the argument as something it's not. Given the incredibly common, almost ubiquitous practice of circumcision in North America, I don't think you can really make an argument that most circumcised men wish they had their foreskin back. It will certainly vary depending on location but in my particular part of Canada, most men are happy to be circumcised and those uncircumcised men are often embarrassed by it. It's a stupid societal stigma but let's not pretend it doesn't exist.

Just as a side note, circumcision isn't covered by OHIP anymore. If you want it done at brith, you pay for it out of pocket. Not sure how the other Provinces do it but I'm pretty sure that BC is the same way. I was born in the late seventies mind you, when it was still standard. My mother apparently had quite the argument over it with the doc.

Personally I've never been embarrassed about being uncut, in fact it only ever came up once and it was more the GF embarrassing herself.

[Marcus Aurelius]

Personally I've never been embarrassed about being uncut, in fact it only ever came up once and it was more the GF embarrassing herself.

She thought there was something wrong with your penis, because she had never seen an uncut one? I imagine that could have been somewhat embarrassing for her...

In Finland and many other countries in Europe circumcision is so rare that I think the first circumcised penis I saw was in porn. I don't remember anyone of my classmates in school having one; the city where I spent my childhood didn't even have much of a Jewish population.

[Cairber]

Just wanted to add that "stretching" is something they usually recommend to teenagers or nearby that age, though I think typically it probably is a lot like that Scrubs episode where they tell the kid to masturbate once a day. but here is a study that addresses stretching:

http://www.jpeds.com/article/S0022-3476 ... 0/abstract

And here is some information and studies on the natural connection between prepuce and penis (physiological phiomsis, which needs no treatment because it is the natural state of the infant male) and overdiagnosis of pathological phimosis:

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15877942

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/9304043

I wouldn't try to generalize about a group of mens' feelings on being cut or uncut. A lot has to do with the society you are in I would think. I try to use the ambiguity to argue against circumcision because, if there are men on both sides of the issue, then it would seem to be yet another reason to leave it up to the owner of the penis.

[Aaron]

Personally I've never been embarrassed about being uncut, in fact it only ever came up once and it was more the GF embarrassing herself.

She thought there was something wrong with your penis, because she had never seen an uncut one? I imagine that could have been somewhat embarrassing for her...

Nah, she blurted out that I was cut at a party, and I went "no I'm not." So there was lots of "haha, you've never seen a cock before?" comments.

In Finland and many other countries in Europe circumcision is so rare that I think the first circumcised penis I saw was in porn. I don't remember anyone of my classmates in school having one; the city where I spent my childhood didn't even have much of a Jewish population.

I don't think its as common here as it once was, my Dads generation and before, it was pretty common (he's cut) but it seems to be dwindling. It seemed about 50/50 when I was in Basic. None of us where Jewish either, so I'm not really all that sure why it was common in Canada at all, save for perhaps hygiene when it was being colonized.

[General Zod]

None of us where Jewish either, so I'm not really all that sure why it was common in Canada at all, save for perhaps hygiene when it was being colonized.

Purportedly it gained a lot of traction in the Victorian era for being a supposed method to reduce masturbation among boys thanks to quacks in England and spread from there.

[Liberty]

But, do I wish I HAD my Foreskin? Hell yes. Does virtually all men I know wish they had their foreskin back? Also Hell yes.

The practice of circumcision is indeed barbaric and should be stopped, but let's not paint the argument as something it's not. Given the incredibly common, almost ubiquitous practice of circumcision in North America, I don't think you can really make an argument that most circumcised men wish they had their foreskin back.

Surlethe does. Of course, that's just one more anecdote...

Is there any actual way to restore a foreskin? Cairber, somehow I feel like you would be able to answer this question...

[Cairber]

You can use tape, weights, etc to full the shaft skin down over the head..it takes a really long time but the skin will eventually stretch. There's a lot lost that you won't get back though like the frenulum. NORM put together what they call the "lost list" that talks about the different functions and parts that are lost forever and those that can be regained through "restoration":

http://www.norm.org/lost.html

I was at a demonstration a few years back and we had some men come up and join us out the blue who had been restoring. Two of them were friends and then a couple others just happened by. They shared a lot of their experiences and, overall, it seems like it is a process that takes years.

ETA: I would also assume it depends on the circumcision. Some doctors are more conservative than others...

[Justforfun000]

Liberty Wrote:

Surlethe does. Of course, that's just one more anecdote...

Is there any actual way to restore a foreskin? Cairber, somehow I feel like you would be able to answer this question...

Second that for me.

I've actually been doing restoration. It's been off and on for years and I'm kicking myself for being so lazy because I've had some permanent benefits that I'm definitely happy with. Not anywhere near proper coverage yet, but Whereas I couldn't even pull the shaft skin over the beginning of the head while hard, I can do so completely now. It's encouraging. It takes a long time, this is true. Even with a tugger device I bought that's immensely easier then tapes or weights. http://www.catstretcher.com/

I feel a little funny discussing this so personally..but I figure if anyone wants to know more about it and start I should at least let them know it does work and it's possible. The ones who have gotten full coverage testify that the inside restored sheath becomes naturally moist and (they claim) much more sensitive so they feel like they are getting back a bit of what they lost. Time will tell. If I ever get there I'll update.

[Kanastrous]

re: increased apparent sensitivity you could probably accomplish the same end by wearing a condom all day, every day to reduce friction of the glans against...whatever. Fakir Musafar practiced genital negation of that general sort and reported tremendous increases in sensitivity...

[Molyneux]

The practice of circumcision is indeed barbaric and should be stopped, but let's not paint the argument as something it's not. Given the incredibly common, almost ubiquitous practice of circumcision in North America, I don't think you can really make an argument that most circumcised men wish they had their foreskin back. It will certainly vary depending on location but in my particular part of Canada, most men are happy to be circumcised and those uncircumcised men are often embarrassed by it. It's a stupid societal stigma but let's not pretend it doesn't exist.

Emphasis mine; it appears that someone didn't read the OP article:

In the United States, infant male circumcision peaked in the 1960s at about 75 percent and has dropped to under 60 percent today, according to the National Health and Social Life Survey and other sources. Newer studies suggest rates may have fallen to as low as 33 percent, said Dr. Lee Sanders, associate professor of pediatrics at the University of Miami Miller School of Medicine.

[Superboy]

That article is the first I've heard of any study placing the number as low as 33% and I have my doubts about how accurate it is given how many other studies place the number closer to 60%, and I would expect that number to be higher among people old enough to regret whatever their parents decided.

[Broomstick]

Circumcision rates may have dropped as low as 33% in recent years yet still result in 60% (or more) of men being circumcised in North America because, of course, the men of prior years when the rate was much higher are still around.