Home of lesbian couple in Tennessee burned to the ground

[Einzige]

http://www.wate.com/Global/story.asp?S=13134384

The home of Carol and Laura Stutte on County Road 320 in Vonore was destroyed by fire last Saturday.

The word "queers" was also spray painted in large letters on their garage.

The couple feels they're victims of a hate crime, and were targeted because they're gay. They've been together for more than 15 years.

Carol Stutte has an adult daughter from a previous relationship who also lived with them.

At the time of the fire, they were in Nashville celebrating their fifth anniversary in Tennessee.

"My daughter was supposed to be here. She was sick," Carol Stutte said. "I was grateful my baby girl didn't get killed in this fire. She would have been trapped in the basement."

The couple moved to Vonore from Oklahoma.

Carol Stutte says her partner is too afraid to come back to the property since the fire. She says they've been harassed all five years they've lived there by one neighbor.

She also says recently the neighbor threatened to kill them and burn down their house," Stutte said. "I knew we had been threatened, but we never thought anything would be followed through,"

Lora Black, the Stutte's neighbor and friend, was with the couple in Nashville when they learned their home was on fire.

"Right now, they are just terrified that our county is feeling like this about homosexual couples. Most homosexual couples are no different than any other couples," Black said.

I like to see that these redneck assholes can still justify denying to others their basic right to property because of their differences.

[Serafina]

Doesn't the clear homophobic intent behind this push this into hate crime territory and therefore into federal law, thus making this a matter of federal law enforcement?
Or am i expecting too much from hate crime laws again?

[The Romulan Republic]

I hope the perpetrators of this crime get chased down, beaten to near death with sticks, and left hanging until dead in public from whatever tree branch or lamp post is convenient.

Yes. I want these fuckers lynched. It's what scum like them deserve.

Isn't inciting violence a crime? As well as morally despicable.

I want these fuckers dealt with by the law. I want them rounded up, given a fair trial, and put away where they can never harm anyone again. Because I believe that human rights apply to everyone, including criminals and bigots. And because without due process of law, there's a fair chance of the wrong person getting caught. And because the rule of law is a foundation of a civilized society.

There are reasons vigilanteism is against the law, you pathetic son of a bitch.

However, all I expect to happen, since this is the South we're talking about, is a half-assed investigation from the local good olde boys "law enforcement" followed by a lawsuit from whatever inbred, deepwoods church they attend to defend their "religious freedom" at which point the statetheology board court will throw the case out and order the whole thing swept under the rug.

Yeah, as bad as a lot of the South is, I doubt any court is going to rule that burning a house is protected by religious freedom. And if they did, wouldn't it just get appealed to a higher court?

No prosecutions will be made, no charges laid, and no arrests made; as this is the south, and it needed to be walled off and forgotten around 1870.

We'll see, won't we?

Edited for clarity.

[K. A. Pital]

Note to posters: do NOT go down to the level of "Kill them vigilante-style". For all DEXTER-wannabees, the forum policies have not changed.

[wautd]

My condolences to the victims. It must be hell to loose all your things, especially if it happens by some morally bankrupt shitstains like that.



http://www.knoxnews.com/news/2010/sep/1 ... couples-h/]update

VONORE - The Tennessee Bomb and Arson Investigative Section is looking into a fire Sept. 4 that destroyed the home of a lesbian couple in Vonore, the agency confirmed today.

Someone also spraypainted the word "Queers" on the garage of Carol and Laura Strutte.

The couple is staying at a safe house in the area until they know formally if the fire was deliberately set and if there is still a threat of violence, said Ben Byers, the head of the Tennessee Equality Project's Knoxville committee.

"Obviously, support from the entire community goes out to them," said Byers, "and we would like to see this investigated strenuously, and, if it was arson, that the responsible parties are brought to justice. Hopefully, there will be good that comes out of this. This should not happen to anyone, gay or straight."

Organizations and support groups have reached out to the family and are taking donations. So far the various groups have raised close to $2,800, there are plans for a benefit concert in the area, Byers said. The Maryville chapter of Parents, Family and Friends of Lesbians and Gays has a list of the items the family needs most on their website, http://www.pflagmaryville.org.

Nice to know they get support

[KrauserKrauser]

Just to play Devil's advocate, I hope the cops are also looking at this as a potential case of insurance fraud.

A can of spray paint and a timer set to go off after the couple leaves is just as plausible as the angry neighbor that "hates them queers."

What with the guy that killed himself to make it look like someone hates census workers, being gay doesn't remove the possibility of wanting free money.

[dragon]

Doesn't the clear homophobic intent behind this push this into hate crime territory and therefore into federal law, thus making this a matter of federal law enforcement?
Or am i expecting too much from hate crime laws again?

Not always as some states have their own hate crime laws so the feds stay away in those cases. For example New York has hate crime on the books so when it occurs it can stay in house so to say. This is good from the feds stand point as they don't have the resources to investigate all crimes with a possibility of hate involved.

Now in places that have little to none hate crime laws then the feds do get involved more ofter. Hopefully with as much attention as this case is getting the feds will get involved.

[Broomstick]

I'm sure this case is being thoroughly investigated and if it's a deliberate arson, insurance fraud, or just an accident this will be determined. A proper investigation does take time, however.

Yes, this is bad - but back when my lesbian sister was alive and people slashed her tires or threw rocks through her windows or threatened her life the cops just said "What do you expect? You perverts deserve it." so I view the fact this is being seriously investigated as a crime and the local community has some sane people supporting these two and trying to help them out as a positive.

Things could be better, of course. They can always be better.

[Alyrium Denryle]

Just to play Devil's advocate, I hope the cops are also looking at this as a potential case of insurance fraud.

A can of spray paint and a timer set to go off after the couple leaves is just as plausible as the angry neighbor that "hates them queers."

What with the guy that killed himself to make it look like someone hates census workers, being gay doesn't remove the possibility of wanting free money.

Probably the first thing they ruled out numbnuts. Besides, the money is not free. They lose all their worldly possessions, and their homeowners insurance is probably not fantastic.

[Bernkastel]

What a horrible event to happen to this couple. Yet, I find myself feeling fairly apathetic about this already. I really do hope that some justice emerges from this, but such a hope already seems a bit absurd.

[Einhander Sn0m4n]

I'm with Rommie on this one. Get the feds involved, let them investigate the evidence, then find the perps and Due Process their bitch asses. Also, that RAR Insurance Fraud theory sounds a bit Village Idiotic to me. I think the cops are likely investigating this from all the angles they can think of, and some will fit the evidence they see better than others. We need a followup statement from the police before we try to cast any judgment in any direction. Doing so at this point is just silly (read: Fuck you Krauser )

Also, Fuck you Highlord Laan for your retardwebs tuff guy crap

[KrauserKrauser]

Probably the first thing they ruled out numbnuts. Besides, the money is not free. They lose all their worldly possessions, and their homeowners insurance is probably not fantastic.

Yeah, just like that girl that threw acid in her face or that guy that strung himself up in a tree and carved "Feds" in his own chest.

Definitely weren't any judgements thrown around on this same board regarding those stories before the investigation was finished, no sir, none at all.

Sorry if it seems cold hearted but people get desperate and do stupid shit. If the neighbor that stated he would burn their house down, in fact did, then throw the book at him and get the feds involved with hate crimes legislation, it's what it is there for.

If however this is found to be a self made insurance fraud case, then they should be prosecuted accordingly.

The police investigation will reveal what it reveals but something about the story struck me as a possible insurance fraud scam. Maybe I am just jaded by that bitch that threw acid in her own face.

[Big Phil]

Also, Fuck you Highlord Laan for your retardwebs tuff guy crap

I'm betting the irony is shooting about fifty feet over your head on this one

[Crossroads Inc.]

Never thought I'd be defending Krauser, but really the point of "devils advocate" is to give unpopular positions that may be true.

Look back to the "guy hung cause he worked for the government" case. We thought for WEEKS that that was done by a bunch of hicks who carved him up and hung him. We lept in immediatly with high emotions about this being proof of the far right going crazy and lynching people, and then it came out the guy did an elaborate suicide.

Look now to the Acid case. I am sure the people on the Right responded the same way "This is proof of how evil and bad the Liberals are!" yet it comes out she did it to herself and lied about it.

It is NOT outside the relam of chance that this COULD be a similar case. That there ARE people sick enough out there to touch their own house and say "It was a hate crime! It happened because we were Gay!"

In this case it does not seem like that happened, but it COULD have. And to jump on someone, however unpopular it may seem to us, is not warrented.

Right now we do not know all the facts, as a gay person myself I felt pretty strong when hearing about this and I am sure many have pretty inflamed emotions. But part of being "better" then the real nuts out there is accepting that stuff like this might not be as clear cut as it seems.

[Alyrium Denryle]

Yeah, just like that girl that threw acid in her face or that guy that strung himself up in a tree and carved "Feds" in his own chest.

Are there people sick enough to self-inflict this? Yes. Of course there are. However this is a simple matter of probability.

1) This is the south. A place where gay bashers get lighter sentences because the gay person committed the crime of existing.

2) For two people (a couple) to self inflict this you must square the probability that one person would.

3) The couple has a history of being harassed in this area.

4) An arson team will be investigating the house and yes, it is entirely possible to rule out insurance fraud that way

This combines to make the probability that the lesbian couple inflicted this on themselves very very low. While technically possible, the probability is along the lines of me quantum tunneling through my wall to look at my neighbor's (amazingly sexy) ass while he is in the shower.

The police investigation will reveal what it reveals but something about the story struck me as a possible insurance fraud scam. Maybe I am just jaded by that bitch that threw acid in her own face.

Can you pin it down? Are you just that damn jaded? Or maybe there is some other reason...

[Mr Bean]

Wait a tick Alyriumm how would an arson team rule out insurance fraud? You rule out insurance fraud when your claiming the house burned down on accident and you sent a team in to verify it did so. When a bunch of bigots burn your house down, and you burn your own house down. Those things look the same. Unless your talking about the arson team having a time machine it's going to be a matter of them proving they were not in the house the time the fire started nor could have any device delayed the fire starting long enough to account for the missing time.

[Serafina]

Okay, how about not bashing KrauserKrauser for pointing out something that is possible?
Because right now, that's all he is saying - that it is a possibility that this is faked. Perhaps he thinks it is despite there being no evidence for it and plenty of pointers for the contrary - but you can't know that. So essentially, you are bashing someone because you speculate that he is speculating about something which you don't like.


Given that area we are talking about and the rest of the situation, the story being true is the most likely explanation.
Especially since a married couple with a young child seems to be rather unlikely to pull of such a stunt - the other cases that have been pointed out here were acts of single persons who did not put other people at substantial risk or harm by doing so. So really - it's possible that they burned down their own house, but it seems unlikely enough that this should not be given extensive consideration until evidence for it is found.

[Alyrium Denryle]

Wait a tick Alyriumm how would an arson team rule out insurance fraud? You rule out insurance fraud when your claiming the house burned down on accident and you sent a team in to verify it did so. When a bunch of bigots burn your house down, and you burn your own house down. Those things look the same. Unless your talking about the arson team having a time machine it's going to be a matter of them proving they were not in the house the time the fire started nor could have any device delayed the fire starting long enough to account for the missing time.

No, they dont necessarily look the same. When a group of bigots burns down a house, the most likely place they will put an accelerant is on the outside rather than in the garage or kitchen etc. An investigation of finances (admittedly performed by the cops) would be more likely to show distinct financial difficulties etc

[KrauserKrauser]

This just in, Alyrium Denryle has decided to learn the best lessons available from Limbaugh, Hannity and Beck and using insinuation to claim that I am a homophobe.

Great job there genius.

I see you've learned a great lesson there. I hear that Obama's dad is a Muslim, I wonder what that makes him.... (Hint: It doesn't mean shit, just like me playing devil's advocate doesn't == homophobia)

[kouchpotato]

Just nitpicking but his dad wasn't a muslim. He was an atheist.

[Phantasee]

That...doesn't matter, either.

I'm with Krauser here: for all we know they did it to themselves to raise "awareness" about the plight of gay and lesbian couples living in the South. Financial motive can also come into it, with or without the above.

Or it could be bigots. But hey, open minds, right?

[General Zod]

That...doesn't matter, either.

I'm with Krauser here: for all we know they did it to themselves to raise "awareness" about the plight of gay and lesbian couples living in the South. Financial motive can also come into it, with or without the above.

Or it could be bigots. But hey, open minds, right?

In any case the arson investigation should be able to turn up enough evidence to the contrary if there really is foul play involved. But really, saying you're jaded about stuff like this because of a few isolated incidents is ridiculous.

[darthdavid]

2) For two people (a couple) to self inflict this you must square the probability that one person would.

I don't think that necessarily follows. Certainly that would be true if you were to take two, unconnected, randomly selected people, but if they're already in a relationship people tend to have things in common. To claim such a simple model for the probability of this sort of thing seems, at least to me, to ignore a lot of potentially confounding factors.

[Broomstick]

No matter how unlikely, any competent investigation of such a fire will have to consider and rule out/rule in something like insurance fraud. Jumping on Krauser for bringing up the possibility is ridiculous.

And it doesn't have to be both people in the relationship involved in a fraud. It only takes one to start a fire.

It could also just be a plain old fashioned accident, short in the wires, whatever.

Yes, with a neighbor with a history of making threats against them that would appear to be a likely cause, but it's possible the neighbor was all talk and had nothing to do with the first.

Or it could be an actual hate crime.

That's why we have investigations, which, ideally, are done in an unemotional manner in order to find out the actual truth of the situation.

[Serafina]

Actually, given that their house was spray-painted with anti-homosexual slurs, i think we can rule out an ordinary accident.