Dice and other random generators in roleplaying games

[Gunhead]

This was touched upon previously. Modern day RPGs, by modern meaning any and all time periods / settings where hand held automatic weapons are available to PCs and / or NPCs.
I've been tackling this issue for a while now, and while I've reached some acceptable compromises I'm still looking to improve on this. Most RPGs that otherwise have decent or even good combat have autofire that is too powerful or absolutely useless. Problems are, the sheer amount of bullets fired, recoil, the effect on target and keeping track of all this while not spending 10 minutes going through tables and rolling oodles of dice.

-Gunhead

I would look at how dark heresy/rouge trader does it. Auto, just a different action that rewards you for rolling better than the minimum to succeed, while taking up significant time to reload. Between that and the fact that you use exactly as many shots as your gun says you do, no matter how many hit is far superior to most systems in terms of easy of use. Rules light.

Dark Heresy combat is at best a hollywoodish shootem'up and even that it doesn't do terribly well out of the box. This is exactly the kind of over simplified system I'm looking to avoid. As this thread is not about DH, if someone wants to continue discussing DH with me, start another thread or PM me.

-Gunhead

[Spoonist]

This was touched upon previously. Modern day RPGs, by modern meaning any and all time periods / settings where hand held automatic weapons are available to PCs and / or NPCs.
I've been tackling this issue for a while now, and while I've reached some acceptable compromises I'm still looking to improve on this. Most RPGs that otherwise have decent or even good combat have autofire that is too powerful or absolutely useless. Problems are, the sheer amount of bullets fired, recoil, the effect on target and keeping track of all this while not spending 10 minutes going through tables and rolling oodles of dice.

-Gunhead

So are we talking close to Phoenix Command level of simulation? As in you and your friends like the war game simulation as much as the RPG bit?

Give one or more examples of the "RPGs that otherwise have decent or even good combat" and what their flaw is. That way we know which feeling you are looking for and can maybe advice better for you specifically.

[Stark]

Man Phoenix Command was the best. Look up your AHCD and cross-reference with the AF on the BTPR table to find the shot's ADR, then add 40 and look up on the wound table by era and triage.

For modern games, I always liked Millenium's End's overlay system, that allowed a single roll (and a table) to determine to-hit, hit location, damage, and mitigation effects. It even allowed all kinds of flexibility assuming you could draw a man-shape in approximately the pose required.

[Gunhead]

I've played phoenix command, and as a miniature game it works well enough but as a RPG combat system it's not what I'm looking for. Hmm... out of the commercial RPGs I'd have to say GURPS is the closest candidate. I personally like the idea of critical hits as in X amount of damage caused at once causes Y effect and when Z amount of damage is accumulated it hampers the character in some way. I know GURPS doesn't have this but similar systems are easily implemented in it so it doesn't really matter.
Some form of suppressive effect is also a must, my players would whine if it's not there. Since I introduced it, they've liked it as it removes the uber bravery factor from the game. Out of heavy gear I took the notion of treating autofire attacks as "packets" and I've been attempting to improve on that.
I have a copy of the new twilight20XX that does have good rules for RPG small team combat, but I've yet to try them and I'm not sure how universally adaptable they are.

-Gunhead

[Spoonist]

For modern games, I always liked Millenium's End's overlay system, that allowed a single roll (and a table) to determine to-hit, hit location, damage, and mitigation effects. It even allowed all kinds of flexibility assuming you could draw a man-shape in approximately the pose required.

It was deadly as well, so it didn't become bugged down with endless fleshwounds. For "dummies" we used a mannequinn and a spotlight, worked real nice.
Didn't like the autofire effect on the overlay though as it assumed a line.

[Eleas]

Best simulationist RPG I've seen lately in modern day is that used in Twilight 2013. It's scalable, insanely fast for what it can do, and very detailed, with modular rules based on a select few mechanisms.

To the surprise of all, I recommend it.

[Gunhead]

Best simulationist RPG I've seen lately in modern day is that used in Twilight 2013. It's scalable, insanely fast for what it can do, and very detailed, with modular rules based on a select few mechanisms.

To the surprise of all, I recommend it.

I dug this up and it does show some promise, I'll have look into it some more. I like the generalized range system and have been using something similar for some time now.

-Gunhead

[Eleas]

Best simulationist RPG I've seen lately in modern day is that used in Twilight 2013. It's scalable, insanely fast for what it can do, and very detailed, with modular rules based on a select few mechanisms.

To the surprise of all, I recommend it.

I dug this up and it does show some promise, I'll have look into it some more. I like the generalized range system and have been using something similar for some time now.

-Gunhead

There are only three significant parts needing attention, I think, the most significant of which can be fixed in short order:

1. The damage. IIRC, any damage done should be doubled. I think that was our fix. This was in order to truly reflect an environment where pretty much anyone is toast out in the open, and 9mm pistols can kill without it being a miracle.
2. The calorie values are borked, if you use those rules. Particularly athletic high-metabolism types will be physically unable to eat their required amount of food, at least if they try to subsist on hunting-gathering.
3. The rules for psychological damage are, I feel, simplistic. I'd propose a system where you actually voluntarily choose to pick up psychoses and OCD behaviour as a means to cope with insanity (=reduce the negative modifications of stress). This would to my mind more accurately mirror how mental instabilities work in real life.

That's pretty much it. I particularly like how deadly you can make ambushes etc, and that the game supports "rebuilding the wasteland" campaigns just as well as it does "kill the enemy" type affairs.

[Zinegata]

RPGs tend not to use cards because the DM is expected to create a lot of situations outside the scope of cards.

In boardgames however, FFG games very often use cards in place of dice as a resolution mechanic. It has had... mixed results.