It was cool, the only thing that bothers me about that is that it was a very close range shot and yet only very few of the beams are present when actually striking the Wallenstein.
In Overture, however, when the Alliance ship destroys a friendly ship that's about to hit it, all the beams burst right through, which was pretty cool.
I loved that scene:-
Pastoll:- "W-hat are they doing?!"
Fahrenheit:- "What are they doing?"
Legend of the Galactic Heroes: Battles (Spoilers)
Moderator: NecronLord
Re: Legend of the Galactic Heroes: Battles
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Re: Legend of the Galactic Heroes: Battles
WTF?! I didn't know the Spiral Labyrinth Gaiden was 28 episodes, I thought it was 26. The last two episodes - a 2-story arc about the 3rd Battle of Tiamat, was just uploaded. Mine, must watch.
(And skipping through to the credits, I found the names of the two other Imperial bigwigs along with Muckenburger! I'll make the relevant edits tomorrow)
(And skipping through to the credits, I found the names of the two other Imperial bigwigs along with Muckenburger! I'll make the relevant edits tomorrow)
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Re: Legend of the Galactic Heroes: Battles
There's some information about crew compliments on FPA ships in the first episode. There are I think 36 pictures on display at the memorial to the crew of the destroyed FPA ship, but this figure cannot be said to be 100% accurate because we don't know if they had pictures of every crew member on display, I'm pretty convinced the ship in question was a destroyer not a cruiser and Yang says a second escort would have been more helpful than 100 medals. Also several civilian ships we're destroyed and it's unclear did any of the crew on these ships receive medals, but I'd say a crew of 36-100 for a destroyer would fit other estimates made on crew strength.Vympel wrote:WTF?! I didn't know the Spiral Labyrinth Gaiden was 28 episodes, I thought it was 26. The last two episodes - a 2-story arc about the 3rd Battle of Tiamat, was just uploaded. Mine, must watch.
(And skipping through to the credits, I found the names of the two other Imperial bigwigs along with Muckenburger! I'll make the relevant edits tomorrow)
-Gunhead
"In the absence of orders, go find something and kill it."
-Generalfeldmarschall Erwin Rommel
"And if you don't wanna feel like a putz
Collect the clues and connect the dots
You'll see the pattern that is bursting your bubble, and it's Bad" -The Hives
-Generalfeldmarschall Erwin Rommel
"And if you don't wanna feel like a putz
Collect the clues and connect the dots
You'll see the pattern that is bursting your bubble, and it's Bad" -The Hives
Re: Legend of the Galactic Heroes: Battles
Yeah that ship wasn't a cruiser (that's the Ulysses) but a destroyer.
I've reverted Lobos back to a Fleet Admiral (and changed the name to Lazar - not Lazzl!) - every other episode I've seen callls him a Fleet Admiral, and his rank badge is identical to Sitolet, so he must be a Fleet Admiral. I also haven't named the other two Imperial chiefs yet, need to double check who's who.
The Alliance invasion / Imperial counterattack is almost done. It's taken a lot longer than I thought since it really spans three episodes rather than one.
I've reverted Lobos back to a Fleet Admiral (and changed the name to Lazar - not Lazzl!) - every other episode I've seen callls him a Fleet Admiral, and his rank badge is identical to Sitolet, so he must be a Fleet Admiral. I also haven't named the other two Imperial chiefs yet, need to double check who's who.
The Alliance invasion / Imperial counterattack is almost done. It's taken a lot longer than I thought since it really spans three episodes rather than one.
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Re: Legend of the Galactic Heroes: Battles
Alliance Invasion of the Empire
The bloodless capture of Iserlohn Fortress had produced a kind of war intoxication amongst the people of the Free Planets Alliance – a desire for total victory after so many defeats – contrary to the expectations of military officers like Fleet Admiral Sitolet or Vice Admiral Yang.
In this environment, the FPA High Council met to vote on an invasion of Imperial territory, a proposal made by elements within the Alliance military.
Those opposed to the invasion noted that both the Empire and the Alliance had been carrying on the war at a level far in excess of what their economies could sustain, and that the FPA’s economy would collapse if an escalation of the war was undertaken. Furthermore, too much human talent was tied up with the military- the social fabric of the Alliance was in danger of coming undone. With the Imperial invasion base in Alliance hands, peace could be made on favorable terms.
Those for the invasion took the moral high ground, arguing that it was a war against “tyranny and injustice”. That the war was expensive was immaterial – more paper currency could always be issued to pay for it, and the citizens would simply be asked to sacrifice via appeals to their patriotism.
Worse, the High Council’s approval ratings were down in the polls, and the trend indicated they would all be out after the election next year. They argued that if they could win a huge victory against the Empire within the next 100 days, the polls would be turned around.
Protests by João Rebelo against such a base political motivation fell on deaf ears.
The vote was eight in favour to three – being Huang Rui, João Rebelo – and surprisingly, Job Trunicht, Secretary of Defence – against. The invasion would go ahead.
The Opposing Forces / Preparations for Battle
The Free Planets Alliance
The invasion fleet would be commanded by Fleet Admiral Lassalle Lobos.
http://img529.imageshack.us/img529/8219/loboss.jpg
(Erroneously called “High Admiral Lazzll Lobos”)
The Chief of Staff would be Admiral Dwight Greenhill. Leading the eight fleets, totaling 200,000 ships and 30,227,400 men would be:-
3rd Fleet:- Vice Admiral Lefebvre
http://img442.imageshack.us/img442/3686/lufeber.jpg
5th Fleet:- Vice Admiral Bucock
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7th Fleet:- Vice Admiral Hawood
http://img529.imageshack.us/img529/9017/hoghwood.jpg
8th Fleet:- Vice Admiral Appleton
http://img830.imageshack.us/img830/3554/appleton.jpg
9th Fleet:- Vice Admiral Al Salem
http://img842.imageshack.us/img842/8237/salemt.jpg
10th Fleet:- Vice Admiral Ulanhu
http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/3894/ulanfu.jpg
12th Fleet:- Vice Admiral Borodin
http://img830.imageshack.us/img830/7233/borodin.jpg
13th Fleet:- Vice Admiral Yang
http://img801.imageshack.us/img801/2903/yangl.jpg
The 13th Fleet had been formally reorganized into a full fleet, being combined with the survivors of the 2nd Fleet.
Because of the nature of the Alliance invasion, their battle plan will be detailed here.
The staff officer in charge of planning the operation was Commodore Andrew Falk – the head of his class at the Officer’s School in the year following Yang’s graduation. Popular with segments of the top Alliance brass (and in particular Fleet Admiral Lobos), he was an extremely ambitious man, and was eager to prove himself. He took every opportunity to belittle Yang’s achievements for his own self-aggrandizement – with his ultimate goal being a route to a seat on the FPA High Council.
The objective of the plan was stated by Falk to be to strike deep into Imperial territory with a large force with the ultimate goal being the liberation of the Imperial citizenry. Falk’s description of combat deployment was abstract and best, and was succinctly summarized by Vice Admiral Bucock:-
”He means we’re supposed to look for a good chance.”
Vice Admiral Yang objected to the plan on the basis that in an operation of this scale, their supply lines would be very long, causing difficulties in both logistics and communications. Furthermore, Yang reasoned that the Empire could attack the Alliance’s long, thin flank and easily cut their forces apart.
Falk dismissed these arguments, instead reasoning that if the enemy were to attempt that, it would merely be caught between the Alliance’s fleet, and easily be destroyed from front and rear.
In the end, Yang’s call for caution, and the warning that Count Lohengramm would be heading up the Imperial response, fell on deaf ears:-
”It’s not just an offensive! It’s a great crusade! Using Iserlohn Fortress as a bridgehead, we’ll invade deep into Imperial territory. Faced with that, the Imperial Fleet will panic, and not know what to do. The unprecedented, massive fleet of the Alliance will advance flying the flag of righteousness for the Free Planets Alliance. There can’t be anything other than victory!” – Commodore Falk on the merits of his own plan.
”Well now, the goal of this noble cause is to liberate 25 billion citizens of the Galactic Empire who are oppressed by its totalitarian government. Anyone opposing this can’t help but be seen as aiding the Empire. Can anyone say I’m wrong? Suppose they have a geographical advantage or even have a new weapon beyond our imagination – We must not shirk from our duty! If we act for a just cause, as a liberation force, the citizens of the Empire will rush to greet us, cheering and aiding our advance!” – Commodore Falk channeling the neoconservative movement of the early 21st century.
Fleet Admiral Sitolet made clear to Yang in private that he did not think much of Falk or his plan, and that he relied on Yang to do his best to make sure the fate of 30,000,000 soldiers did not rest in his hands.
Galactic Empire
”With this opportunity, I intend to smash the Alliance completely.” – Count Lohengramm
The impending Alliance invasion was leaked to the Empire by way of Fezzan, as usual. Secretary of State Lichtenlade determined the task should go to Count Lohengramm.
Lohengramm’s loyal retainers at his Admiralty were therefore tasked with executing his plans with their respective fleets*:-
Vice Admiral August Samuel Wahlen:-
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Vice Admiral Cornelius Lutz:-
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Vice Admiral Karl Gustav Kempf:-
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Vice Admiral Fritz Josef Bittenfeld:-
http://img525.imageshack.us/img525/9140 ... entral.jpg
Vice Admiral Ernest Mecklinger:-
http://img838.imageshack.us/img838/9140 ... entral.jpg
Vice Admiral Wolfgang Mittermeyer:-
http://img521.imageshack.us/img521/9140 ... entral.jpg
Vice Admiral Oskar von Reuenthal:-
http://img832.imageshack.us/img832/9140 ... entral.jpg
And of course, Vice Admiral Siegfried Kircheis as adjutant general of several of the fleets.
* Unlike the fleets of the Free Planets Alliance, fleets were organized around their commanding officers- hence for example Vice Admiral Wahlen led what was simply known as the “Wahlen Fleet”, and so forth. The only exception was the fleet of Vice Admiral Bittenfeld, known as the Black Lancers, the vanguard of Count Lohengramm’s forces.
Coincidentally, therefore, eight Alliance fleets would be met by eight Imperial fleets.
Count Lohengramm’s plan was to eschew meeting the Alliance Fleet at the mouth of the Iserlohn Corridor and instead lure them deep into Imperial territory – counterattacking when the enemy supply lines reached their limit, and destroy them completely.
Whilst Count Lohengramm and his men were quite content to wait for however long was necessary for the Alliance supply lines to wear thin, they recognized that the high nobles of the Imperial court may not appreciate the nuance of the plan, and might interfere with his conduct of the war.
Count Lohengramm therefore determined to speed up the depletion of the Alliance’s supplies before the high nobles had an opportunity to interfere. Commodore Paul von Oberstein (promoted from Captain) had devised a plan whereby the forces stationed near Iserlohn would evacuate all food and resources from the star systems near that area before the Alliance fleet arrived, and thereby dump the responsibility of supplying those areas onto the Alliance fleet.
Since the Alliance fleet billed itself as a liberation force, they would have no choice but to do so.
Count Lohengramm also fully expected the Alliance Fleet to neglect the citizenry of the occupied areas when the situation became critical – therefore, this plan would also serve to rid the citizens of any illusions they had that the Alliance fleet was their savior.
Responsibility for carrying out this task was given to Commodore Ulrich Kesler, a respected acquaintance of Reinhard's from earlier in his career.
The Alliance Moves
The Alliance began its invasion of Imperial territory on August 22, Space Year 796 (Imperial Year 487).
The task of evacuating all food and resources from soon-to-be-occupied areas was completed just in time – at the Planet Kleingelt, the final Imperial ships left the area just as the massive Alliance fleet approached.
The last Imperial ships depart
Whilst the Alliance approaches
Feeling betrayed, the populace of the occupied region greeted the Alliance forces with jubilation.
Typical scenes from the first hours of the liberation
More than 200 star systems fell into Alliance hands without opposition, some of them inhabited, with 50 million Imperial citizens in all.
The initial jubilation quickly wore off when it became apparent how little food had been left. The Alliance fleet provided assistance from their own food supplies, and sent specialists to the planets to assist in agriculture.
“Before freedom and equality, could we have bread and meat?” – unknown Imperial citizen
In an attempt to save the liberated zones from starvation, the fleet made a requisition to Rear Chief Staff Officer, Rear Admiral Cazellnu at Iserlohn, for 90 days of food rations for 50 million people, seeds for 200 species of edible plants, 40 artificial protein plants, 60 hydroponics plants, and the ships to transport them – as a start. Simply the request for food rations was onerous – grain alone would be 5 billion tons. Iserlohn Fortress itself didn’t have more than 700 million tons of grain on hand.
Rear Admiral Cazerne raised the prospect of an enemy attack on the transport fleet. Such risk was ignored by Commodore Falk, who argued that the fleet would stop any such attack. Facing a crisis, Fleet Admiral Lobos communicated the request to the Alliance government.
The FPA High Council agreed to the request- despite renewed protests from João Rebelo that the Empire was clearly trying to destroy the Alliance economy. The reasoning of the majority was that if they saved the Imperial citizenry from starvation, they would be grateful towards the Alliance. Political considerations also remained paramount – Rebelo and Huang’s recommendations for immediate withdrawal were rejected on the basis that same would result in certain defeat in the next election.
Meanwhile, Vice Admiral Yang made contact with Vice Admiral Ulanhu of the 10th Fleet – expressing his concerns that the troops were already starting to starve, they agreed to both make thorough preparations for a withdrawal whilst under enemy counter-attack. They also agreed to speak to Fleet Admiral Lobos and Vice Admiral Bucock respectively.
But they were too late.
Count Lohengramm cuts the cord
Receiving word of the transport fleet bound from Heinessen, the Alliance capital, Count Lohengramm tasked Vice Admiral Kircheis with its destruction.
The transport fleet, under Admiral Scott, consisted of 500 10-million ton cargo ships, and 26 armed escorts.
A lightning fast mass missile attack by the Kircheis Fleet annihilated the transport fleet in moments.
The Alliance escorts try and intercept the missile swarm
And fails.
Agitation for withdrawal
Commodore Falk advised the fleets that for the time being they could expect no resupply of food. Accordingly, they were to procure supplies on the spot – from the civilian populace. Unsurprisingly the civilian population of the occupied areas would have none of it. Unrest quickly turned to violence and deaths as Alliance soldiers plundered civilian settlements for food – the 3rd, 8th, 7th and 9th fleets all reported the breaking out of mass riots in short order.
7th Fleet flagship Quetzalcoatl in orbit
Vice Admiral Bucock requested an urgent discussion with Fleet Admiral Lobos (safely ensconced at Iserlohn), relaying the request of every fleet commander that they be permitted to withdraw. He instead was forced to speak with Commodore Falk, who with his usual smug manner dismissed their concerns.
Incensed, Vice Admiral Bucock berated him for his incompetence and arrogance. Commodore Falk promptly suffered a nervous breakdown and collapsed. He was promptly wheeled out.
Bucock was then advised by Admiral Greenihill that Lobos couldn’t be disturbed. He was having his usual afternoon nap. The request for withdrawal would be considered when he awoke.
Count Lohengramm strikes
With the Alliance supply lines severed, the time had come. Count Lohengramm gave the order to Reuenthal, Mittermeyer, Bittenfeld, Wahlen, Kempf, Mecklinger, and Lutz that the counterattack would begin (Kircheis already having departed). Accompanying them in the Brunhild, the massive Imperial fleet departed Odin on October 10th. He was so confident of total victory that he gave a victory toast beforehand.
Planet Lügen: The Black Lancers versus the 10th Fleet
The 10th Fleet above Planet Lügen
The Black Lancers, under command of Vice Admiral Bittenfeld from his flagship Königstiger, opened the assault by engaging the 10th Fleet in orbit of Planet Lügen.
Bittenfeld’s flagship, the Königstiger, painted in black like the rest of his fleet
From the flagship Pan-Gu, Vice Admiral Ulanhu sent a message to the 13th Fleet, noting that they had engaged the enemy, and hoping for assistance. Unfortunately, the assistance never came.
The 10th Fleet flagship Pan-Gu
Numbers wise, casualties between the fleets were equal – unfortunately the Black Lancers had started out with more ships. Further, low on supplies, the 10th Fleet was not operating at top efficiency. The Black Lancers succeeded in surrounding the 10th Fleet.
Doomed 10th Fleet ships plunge towards the planet
With fleet losses at 40% and the remaining 60% in no position to continue fighting, Ulanfu had no choice but to choose between surrender or retreat. He decided to try and break through the Black Lancer line and withdraw.
Putting the damaged vessels inside his formation, he organized the remains of the 10th fleet to take a spindle formation, with the intent of breaking through one corner of the Black Lancers’ siege.
Holding the Pan-Gu back to let as many damaged ships get through the breach, a breakthrough was achieved.
Ulanfu then ordered the launch of all remaining missiles – unfortunately, an energy beam struck the Pan-Gu’s missile launcher mid-launch, causing a massive warhead detonation and destroying the ship. Ulanhu was killed, but died knowing that he had saved almost 50% of his remaining forces.
Jafnhár System: Kempf Fleet versus the 13th Fleet
Yang’s flagship Hyperion and the 13th Fleet
Vice Admiral Kempf on his flagship Jotunheim opened his attack on the 13th Fleet with a missile swarm, whilst the Spartanian and Valkyrie fighters of the respective combatants fought for supremacy between and around them.
Kempf’s flagship, the Jotunheim.
Kempf’s missiles
Yang’s decoys detonate the missiles as Spartanians begin to launch
Yang’s Spartanian squadrons did well, outmatching the skill of the opposing Valkyrie pilots. In response, Kempf (a former Valkyrie pilot himself) ordered his pilots to half surround the enemy Spartanian’s from behind, and lure them into range of the main guns of the fleet. Considerable casualties amongst the Spartanians resulted.
Spartanians get close to one of Kempf’s cruisers
Taking a semi-circular formation, the 13th Fleet concentrated its attack on Kempf’s right flank. Once he shifted his line of defence, Yang shifted his focus to the left flank – and then the right again. Realising he was being taken in, Kempf ordered the fleet to take its own semi circular formation and respond to the enemy movements.
Yang admires Fischer’s work
With the expert coordination of the 13th Fleet afforded by the skill of (now) Rear Admiral Fischer, the 13th Fleet was able to get ahead of Kempf’s reaction times. It became apparent that soon they would be able to shave away the Imperial fleet’s line of defence.
Realizing the battle was turning into a bloody pummeling match, Kempf ordered a pullback to reorganize the fleet’s formation. Yang eschewed a counter-attack and instead ordered an immediate retreat, noting that the battle was pointless – even if he defeated the fleet in front of him, it would change nothing. The first consideration was to survive against the Imperial Fleet’s overwhelming superiority.
Surprised, Kempf did not follow too far, wary of a trap.
Bilrost System: Reuenthal Fleet vs the 5th Fleet
Vice Admiral Bucock was at an immediate disadvantage against Vice Admiral Reuenthal. Outmatched, he withdrew at full speed. The 5th Fleet suffered nearly 30% casualites.
Dverger System: Kircheis Fleet vs the 7th Fleet
Vice Admiral Kircheis succeeded in encircling and defeating the 7th Fleet. With Kircheis suggesting surrender, Vice Admiral Hawood accepted.
The remains of the 7th Fleet, surrounded
Alviss System: Mittermeyer Fleet vs the 9th Fleet
In the Alviss System, the Mittermeyer Fleet, led by the flagship Beowulf warped in at extreme close range to the 9th Fleet. Taken unawares, Vice Admiral Al Salem had no time to react before the Imperial fleet pulled back and opened fire.
A hit near the bridge of the his flagship, the Palamedes, sent a support cable loose and flying about the bridge, severely wounding Vice Admiral Al Salem. Turning over command to Rear Admiral Morton, Morton managed to save the fleet from complete destruction. The 9th Fleet suffered over 50% losses in the action.
The Beowulf, of a similar design to the Tristan, Reuenthal's flagship
Wänsteidt System: Mecklinger Fleet vs 8th Fleet
The 8th Fleet managed to escape from the Mecklinger Fleet, but sustained heavy losses (again, nearly 30%) in doing so.
The 8th Fleet struggles
Vice Admiral Mecklinger directs the battle from his flagship, the Kvasir
Planet Lesing: Wahlen Fleet vs the 3rd Fleet
The 3rd Fleet was decisively defeated by Vice Admiral Wahlen. The 3rd Fleet flagship, the Cu Chulainn, collided with a nearby friendly battleship, out of control from a pair of missile hits.
The impact sent the Cu Chulainn, and the battleship slamming into a nearby planetoid, destroying both ships, and killing Vice Admiral Lefebvre instantly. The 3rd Fleet was then wiped out.
The ill-fated Cu Chulainn
The Salamander and Vice Admiral Wahlen are bathed in the glow of the Cu Chulainn’s demise
Bolthorn System: Lutz Fleet vs the 12th Fleet
The Lutz Fleet achieved total victory over the 12th Fleet. With only 9 ships left, including the flagship Perun, Vice Admiral Borodin committed suicide on the bridge when his officers weren’t looking.
Vice Admiral Lutz’s flagship, the Skirnir, in the distance
Vice Admiral Borodin could not live with the catastrophe
His second in command ordered all ships to cease fire and stop their engines, and surrendered to Lutz.
Dverger System: Kircheis Fleet vs 13th Fleet
The 13th Fleet arrived in the Dwelg System, where the 7th Fleet had been stationed, with no sign of the 7th Fleet anywhere. The Kircheis Fleet, fresh from its victory, immediately approached.
With Kircheis’ fleet approximately four times the size of Yang’s, Kircheis, always magnanimous in battle, suggested surrender. Yang briefly considered doing so, before being shamed by the shocked reactions of his staff.
Kircheis’ flagship, the Barbarossa- a modified version of the supreme flagship Brunhild’s design
Kircheis’ formulated a battle plan where his fleet would divide into four parts, delivering continuous attacks, one at a time, in 2 hour shifts – he did not intend to annihilate Yang, but force the 13th Fleet to surrender, fatiguing the enemy via continuous battle.
Yang was impressed- Kircheis offered Yang no opportunity to seize the advantage or withdraw. With their inferior numbers, food and munitions shortage, as well as damage from battle with Kempf’s fleet, Yang’s defeat was inevitable.
Hyperion engaged
Calling Rear Admiral Fischer to the Hyperion, he asked him to arrange the fleet into a “U” formation, hoping to lure the enemy within and counterattack from three sides. Yang hoped that Kircheis would be daunted, reverse course at high speed, and give the 13th Fleet an opportunity to withdraw.
With the plan put into action, in the early stages it appeared to be going well, when all Alliance fleets were given the order to regroup at the Amritsar system. The 13th Fleet managed to effect a hasty withdrawal.
Finale at Amritsar
Back at Iserlohn, Admiral Dwight Greenhill had reported the situation to Fleet Admiral Lobos, recommending immediate withdrawal of what remained of the fleets to Iserlohn.
Lobos, refusing to accept reality, would have none of it. He ordered all ships to regroup at the Amritsar system for a decisive battle.
Intercepting the communications, Count von Lohengramm on the Brunhild couldn’t help but be amused.
"If they choose Amritsar as their grave, shall I not grant their wish?"
The remaining Alliance fleets – primarily the 5th, the 8th, and the 13th, gathered in close orbit of the Amlitzer star, with their rear protected by approximately 40 million space mines.
Hyperion bathed in Amritsar’s light
Soon after the Alliance fleet had assembled, the Mecklinger, Kempf, Bittenfeld, Reuenthal, and Mittermeyer fleets arrived and commenced their attack, with the Brunhild looking on.
Yang opened the defence by dropping fusion bombs into the Amritsar star, causing a stellar detonation that sent the 13th Fleet speeding upward towards Mittermeyer’s fleet, bringing it within close range.
Hyperion launches a salvo of fusion bombs
Caught on the backfoot, the Beowulf’s port hull was damaged, and Mittermeyer was forced to pull back, whilst preparing a counterattack should the 13th Fleet attempt to exploit its advantage.
Beowulf under heavy fire
Yang did not press his advantage too far. At this stage, the Black Lancers charged, aiming to flank the 13th Fleet from its 2 o’clock position.
The 13th Fleet responded by lining up its heavily armored battleships into a defensive wall, whilst having the smaller ships fire through the ‘seams’ in the wall.
The Black Lancers’ fast battleships attack as Alliance cruisers return fire, shielded by friendly battleships
Having defended itself against the onslaught, the 13th Fleet pulled back. Bittenfeld, annoyed at having been dodged, ordered the Black Lancers forward to attack the 8th Fleet, now in front of them.
Forward! Forward! The goddess of victory is waving her underwear in your faces!
The 8th Fleet flagship, the Krishna, suffered a hit in its engine room. Unable to maintain orbit, Vice Admiral Appleton ordered all hands to abandon ship. Witnessing the destruction of his fleet, he remained aboard as the ship plunged into the star.
The Krishna right before the end
Krishna falls
The situation after the 8th Fleet’s collapse
Meanwhile continuing pressure from Mecklinger was starting to tell against Yang’s fleet.
Bittenfeld, eager to conclude the victory, ordered the Black Lancers to reverse course and attack the 13th Fleet, hoping to destroy it from both sides with Mecklinger. He ordered the guns switched to close range and for the Valkyries to be launched.
It was what Yang had been waiting for – as the Black Lancers turned the 13th fired on them at their most vulnerable, causing significant casualties and destroying many of the Valkyrie fighters just as they left their hangar bays.
The Black Lancers come under fire mid-turn
Valkyries caught whilst launching
Count Lohengramm was furious. Upon hearing Bittenfeld’s request for reinforcements, Reinhard fumed that he had no spare battle strength. He was to perform his duty as a warrior and defend his post to the death. To ram the point home, all further communications from Bittenfeld were ignored.
At the same time, Lohengramm couldn’t help but admire the activity of the 13th Fleet and Yang Wenli. Although the battle was still going well, Commodore Oberstein noted the situation was becoming such that damage to the fleet couldn’t be overlooked. Lohengramm was waiting for Kircheis to arrive.
Oberstein needn’t have worried – Kircheis, along with Lutz and Wahlen, were just entering the battle.
Moving to attack the enemy from behind, Kircheis had deployed his forces with the Alliance space mines ahead of them. A way through the field was cleared by the use of directional Seffle particle generators – a new Imperial technology.
Engineering ships emit directional Seffle particles
Barbarossa does the honors
Gunfire detonates the particles, clearing a way through the minefield
Now the Alliance fleet had an additional 30,000 enemy ships attacking from the rear, and was in danger of complete annihilation. By 2300 hours on October 15th, the battle was over. The shattered remnants of the Alliance fleet began to retreat, with the Imperial fleet in hot pursuit. Count Lohengramm declined to advance the flagship and enter the battle, reasoning that entering the battle now would be viewed as an attempt to usurp his subordinates’ glory.
The Alliance fleet is torn up as it flees
Reinhard enjoys the view
Yang knew it was too early for him to withdraw – he had to save the remains of the other fleets. Taking the position of rearguard, he told Bucock to use the respite to regroup each fleet’s command system and retreat to Iserlohn.
Putting the fleet in a swarm formation, the 13th concentrated its fire at the head of the Imperial formation whilst retreating, doing considerable damage. If it could hold out against the enemy for just a short while, the allied forces could finalise their retreat.
Both impressed and annoyed, Lohengramm determined not to let Yang have things his own way, and ordered the wings of the fleet spread out in a siege formation to contain and destroy the 13th Fleet.
Unfortunately, the Black Lancers were too depleted to contribute effectively to the formation, leaving a weakness in the Imperial line. Kircheis would have to reinforce Bittenfeld.
Yang chose that moment to break through – aiming right for the Black Lancers, the 13th Fleet broke through and escaped. Bittenfeld was forced to give way, but only after being implored to by his subordinates to wait for another battle to have his revenge.
Reinhard gave the order for all fleets to eliminate the remaining enemy, and start for home.
Aftermath
The Alliance
The invasion of Imperial territory was a complete catastrophe for the Free Planets Alliance. Though their fleet had avoided complete annihilation thanks to Yang, the magnitude of the Imperial victory was indisputable – 20,000,000 men had been lost out of the more than 30,000,000 mobilized. Reinhard had dealt the Alliance military a blow that would cripple it for the foreseeable future.
Politically, Job Trunicht– by simultaneously opposing the dispatch of troops (when same was already a foregone conclusion) and controlling the fleet - came out with greatly increased influence - being appointed temporary head of the High Council.
The consequences for numerous Alliance top brass was severe. Rear Admiral Cazerne, though he was not especially responsible for the supply failure, was relegated to the colonized frontier’s Supply Base #14.
Fleet Admiral Sitolet was forced into retirement. He was replaced as HQ Chief by Admiral Kubersly. Fleet Admiral Lobos was replaced as Space Fleet Commander by Admiral Bucock.
Both Kubersly and Bucock valued Yang highly – with Admiral Greenhill being moved from Chief of Staff to Chief of Investigations, Yang was tipped for the position.
Yang preferred to take up the position of commander of Iserlohn Fortress. He was promoted to full Admiral, and Iserlohn became the permanent base of what had now officially become the 'Yang Fleet'. Rear Admiral Murai was appointed Chief of Staff, with Commodore Patrichev as Vice Chief of Staff. Rear Admiral Fischer became Vice Fleet Commander. Fleet squadron commanders were Commodore Nguyen Van Huu and Commodore Dusty Attenborough. Aerial Corps Chiefs were Lt Commanders Olivier Poplin and Ivan Konev. Fortress Defence Commander was Brigadier General Walter von Schenkopp.
Yang told Rear Admiral Cazerne that it wouldn’t be long before he was reassigned from rear duty to Iserlohn, as Fortress Business Inspector General.
Finally, Julian Mintz, Yang’s ward, was assigned as an Officer’s Orderly.
The Empire
On the personnel level, Reinhard determined to punish Bittenfeld for his recklessness, and hold an enquiry into his accountability upon their return to Odin.
Kircheis interceded – he knew that Reinhard was more angry at himself – and Yang – who had made a name for himself completely on his own - than at Bittenfeld.
”Tiamat … Astarte … And now Amritsar. Why does that bastard show up and interfere whenever I’m about to win completely?!”
Noting that Reinhard had enemies in Yang in front of him and the high nobles behind, Kircheis persuaded him he should not make enemies of his own subordinates as well. Vice Admiral Bittenfeld was not punished.
On the way home, Count Lohengramm learned that Kaiser Friedrich IV had died of a heart attack. The consequences for the Empire, and the galaxy, would not be long in coming.
The bloodless capture of Iserlohn Fortress had produced a kind of war intoxication amongst the people of the Free Planets Alliance – a desire for total victory after so many defeats – contrary to the expectations of military officers like Fleet Admiral Sitolet or Vice Admiral Yang.
In this environment, the FPA High Council met to vote on an invasion of Imperial territory, a proposal made by elements within the Alliance military.
Those opposed to the invasion noted that both the Empire and the Alliance had been carrying on the war at a level far in excess of what their economies could sustain, and that the FPA’s economy would collapse if an escalation of the war was undertaken. Furthermore, too much human talent was tied up with the military- the social fabric of the Alliance was in danger of coming undone. With the Imperial invasion base in Alliance hands, peace could be made on favorable terms.
Those for the invasion took the moral high ground, arguing that it was a war against “tyranny and injustice”. That the war was expensive was immaterial – more paper currency could always be issued to pay for it, and the citizens would simply be asked to sacrifice via appeals to their patriotism.
Worse, the High Council’s approval ratings were down in the polls, and the trend indicated they would all be out after the election next year. They argued that if they could win a huge victory against the Empire within the next 100 days, the polls would be turned around.
Protests by João Rebelo against such a base political motivation fell on deaf ears.
The vote was eight in favour to three – being Huang Rui, João Rebelo – and surprisingly, Job Trunicht, Secretary of Defence – against. The invasion would go ahead.
The Opposing Forces / Preparations for Battle
The Free Planets Alliance
The invasion fleet would be commanded by Fleet Admiral Lassalle Lobos.
http://img529.imageshack.us/img529/8219/loboss.jpg
(Erroneously called “High Admiral Lazzll Lobos”)
The Chief of Staff would be Admiral Dwight Greenhill. Leading the eight fleets, totaling 200,000 ships and 30,227,400 men would be:-
3rd Fleet:- Vice Admiral Lefebvre
http://img442.imageshack.us/img442/3686/lufeber.jpg
5th Fleet:- Vice Admiral Bucock
http://img835.imageshack.us/img835/6451/bucock.jpg
7th Fleet:- Vice Admiral Hawood
http://img529.imageshack.us/img529/9017/hoghwood.jpg
8th Fleet:- Vice Admiral Appleton
http://img830.imageshack.us/img830/3554/appleton.jpg
9th Fleet:- Vice Admiral Al Salem
http://img842.imageshack.us/img842/8237/salemt.jpg
10th Fleet:- Vice Admiral Ulanhu
http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/3894/ulanfu.jpg
12th Fleet:- Vice Admiral Borodin
http://img830.imageshack.us/img830/7233/borodin.jpg
13th Fleet:- Vice Admiral Yang
http://img801.imageshack.us/img801/2903/yangl.jpg
The 13th Fleet had been formally reorganized into a full fleet, being combined with the survivors of the 2nd Fleet.
Because of the nature of the Alliance invasion, their battle plan will be detailed here.
The staff officer in charge of planning the operation was Commodore Andrew Falk – the head of his class at the Officer’s School in the year following Yang’s graduation. Popular with segments of the top Alliance brass (and in particular Fleet Admiral Lobos), he was an extremely ambitious man, and was eager to prove himself. He took every opportunity to belittle Yang’s achievements for his own self-aggrandizement – with his ultimate goal being a route to a seat on the FPA High Council.
The objective of the plan was stated by Falk to be to strike deep into Imperial territory with a large force with the ultimate goal being the liberation of the Imperial citizenry. Falk’s description of combat deployment was abstract and best, and was succinctly summarized by Vice Admiral Bucock:-
”He means we’re supposed to look for a good chance.”
Vice Admiral Yang objected to the plan on the basis that in an operation of this scale, their supply lines would be very long, causing difficulties in both logistics and communications. Furthermore, Yang reasoned that the Empire could attack the Alliance’s long, thin flank and easily cut their forces apart.
Falk dismissed these arguments, instead reasoning that if the enemy were to attempt that, it would merely be caught between the Alliance’s fleet, and easily be destroyed from front and rear.
In the end, Yang’s call for caution, and the warning that Count Lohengramm would be heading up the Imperial response, fell on deaf ears:-
”It’s not just an offensive! It’s a great crusade! Using Iserlohn Fortress as a bridgehead, we’ll invade deep into Imperial territory. Faced with that, the Imperial Fleet will panic, and not know what to do. The unprecedented, massive fleet of the Alliance will advance flying the flag of righteousness for the Free Planets Alliance. There can’t be anything other than victory!” – Commodore Falk on the merits of his own plan.
”Well now, the goal of this noble cause is to liberate 25 billion citizens of the Galactic Empire who are oppressed by its totalitarian government. Anyone opposing this can’t help but be seen as aiding the Empire. Can anyone say I’m wrong? Suppose they have a geographical advantage or even have a new weapon beyond our imagination – We must not shirk from our duty! If we act for a just cause, as a liberation force, the citizens of the Empire will rush to greet us, cheering and aiding our advance!” – Commodore Falk channeling the neoconservative movement of the early 21st century.
Fleet Admiral Sitolet made clear to Yang in private that he did not think much of Falk or his plan, and that he relied on Yang to do his best to make sure the fate of 30,000,000 soldiers did not rest in his hands.
Galactic Empire
”With this opportunity, I intend to smash the Alliance completely.” – Count Lohengramm
The impending Alliance invasion was leaked to the Empire by way of Fezzan, as usual. Secretary of State Lichtenlade determined the task should go to Count Lohengramm.
Lohengramm’s loyal retainers at his Admiralty were therefore tasked with executing his plans with their respective fleets*:-
Vice Admiral August Samuel Wahlen:-
http://img375.imageshack.us/img375/9140 ... entral.jpg
Vice Admiral Cornelius Lutz:-
http://img59.imageshack.us/img59/9140/l ... entral.jpg
Vice Admiral Karl Gustav Kempf:-
http://img831.imageshack.us/img831/9140 ... entral.jpg
Vice Admiral Fritz Josef Bittenfeld:-
http://img525.imageshack.us/img525/9140 ... entral.jpg
Vice Admiral Ernest Mecklinger:-
http://img838.imageshack.us/img838/9140 ... entral.jpg
Vice Admiral Wolfgang Mittermeyer:-
http://img521.imageshack.us/img521/9140 ... entral.jpg
Vice Admiral Oskar von Reuenthal:-
http://img832.imageshack.us/img832/9140 ... entral.jpg
And of course, Vice Admiral Siegfried Kircheis as adjutant general of several of the fleets.
* Unlike the fleets of the Free Planets Alliance, fleets were organized around their commanding officers- hence for example Vice Admiral Wahlen led what was simply known as the “Wahlen Fleet”, and so forth. The only exception was the fleet of Vice Admiral Bittenfeld, known as the Black Lancers, the vanguard of Count Lohengramm’s forces.
Coincidentally, therefore, eight Alliance fleets would be met by eight Imperial fleets.
Count Lohengramm’s plan was to eschew meeting the Alliance Fleet at the mouth of the Iserlohn Corridor and instead lure them deep into Imperial territory – counterattacking when the enemy supply lines reached their limit, and destroy them completely.
Whilst Count Lohengramm and his men were quite content to wait for however long was necessary for the Alliance supply lines to wear thin, they recognized that the high nobles of the Imperial court may not appreciate the nuance of the plan, and might interfere with his conduct of the war.
Count Lohengramm therefore determined to speed up the depletion of the Alliance’s supplies before the high nobles had an opportunity to interfere. Commodore Paul von Oberstein (promoted from Captain) had devised a plan whereby the forces stationed near Iserlohn would evacuate all food and resources from the star systems near that area before the Alliance fleet arrived, and thereby dump the responsibility of supplying those areas onto the Alliance fleet.
Since the Alliance fleet billed itself as a liberation force, they would have no choice but to do so.
Count Lohengramm also fully expected the Alliance Fleet to neglect the citizenry of the occupied areas when the situation became critical – therefore, this plan would also serve to rid the citizens of any illusions they had that the Alliance fleet was their savior.
Responsibility for carrying out this task was given to Commodore Ulrich Kesler, a respected acquaintance of Reinhard's from earlier in his career.
The Alliance Moves
The Alliance began its invasion of Imperial territory on August 22, Space Year 796 (Imperial Year 487).
The task of evacuating all food and resources from soon-to-be-occupied areas was completed just in time – at the Planet Kleingelt, the final Imperial ships left the area just as the massive Alliance fleet approached.
The last Imperial ships depart
Whilst the Alliance approaches
Feeling betrayed, the populace of the occupied region greeted the Alliance forces with jubilation.
Typical scenes from the first hours of the liberation
More than 200 star systems fell into Alliance hands without opposition, some of them inhabited, with 50 million Imperial citizens in all.
The initial jubilation quickly wore off when it became apparent how little food had been left. The Alliance fleet provided assistance from their own food supplies, and sent specialists to the planets to assist in agriculture.
“Before freedom and equality, could we have bread and meat?” – unknown Imperial citizen
In an attempt to save the liberated zones from starvation, the fleet made a requisition to Rear Chief Staff Officer, Rear Admiral Cazellnu at Iserlohn, for 90 days of food rations for 50 million people, seeds for 200 species of edible plants, 40 artificial protein plants, 60 hydroponics plants, and the ships to transport them – as a start. Simply the request for food rations was onerous – grain alone would be 5 billion tons. Iserlohn Fortress itself didn’t have more than 700 million tons of grain on hand.
Rear Admiral Cazerne raised the prospect of an enemy attack on the transport fleet. Such risk was ignored by Commodore Falk, who argued that the fleet would stop any such attack. Facing a crisis, Fleet Admiral Lobos communicated the request to the Alliance government.
The FPA High Council agreed to the request- despite renewed protests from João Rebelo that the Empire was clearly trying to destroy the Alliance economy. The reasoning of the majority was that if they saved the Imperial citizenry from starvation, they would be grateful towards the Alliance. Political considerations also remained paramount – Rebelo and Huang’s recommendations for immediate withdrawal were rejected on the basis that same would result in certain defeat in the next election.
Meanwhile, Vice Admiral Yang made contact with Vice Admiral Ulanhu of the 10th Fleet – expressing his concerns that the troops were already starting to starve, they agreed to both make thorough preparations for a withdrawal whilst under enemy counter-attack. They also agreed to speak to Fleet Admiral Lobos and Vice Admiral Bucock respectively.
But they were too late.
Count Lohengramm cuts the cord
Receiving word of the transport fleet bound from Heinessen, the Alliance capital, Count Lohengramm tasked Vice Admiral Kircheis with its destruction.
The transport fleet, under Admiral Scott, consisted of 500 10-million ton cargo ships, and 26 armed escorts.
A lightning fast mass missile attack by the Kircheis Fleet annihilated the transport fleet in moments.
The Alliance escorts try and intercept the missile swarm
And fails.
Agitation for withdrawal
Commodore Falk advised the fleets that for the time being they could expect no resupply of food. Accordingly, they were to procure supplies on the spot – from the civilian populace. Unsurprisingly the civilian population of the occupied areas would have none of it. Unrest quickly turned to violence and deaths as Alliance soldiers plundered civilian settlements for food – the 3rd, 8th, 7th and 9th fleets all reported the breaking out of mass riots in short order.
7th Fleet flagship Quetzalcoatl in orbit
Vice Admiral Bucock requested an urgent discussion with Fleet Admiral Lobos (safely ensconced at Iserlohn), relaying the request of every fleet commander that they be permitted to withdraw. He instead was forced to speak with Commodore Falk, who with his usual smug manner dismissed their concerns.
Incensed, Vice Admiral Bucock berated him for his incompetence and arrogance. Commodore Falk promptly suffered a nervous breakdown and collapsed. He was promptly wheeled out.
Bucock was then advised by Admiral Greenihill that Lobos couldn’t be disturbed. He was having his usual afternoon nap. The request for withdrawal would be considered when he awoke.
Count Lohengramm strikes
With the Alliance supply lines severed, the time had come. Count Lohengramm gave the order to Reuenthal, Mittermeyer, Bittenfeld, Wahlen, Kempf, Mecklinger, and Lutz that the counterattack would begin (Kircheis already having departed). Accompanying them in the Brunhild, the massive Imperial fleet departed Odin on October 10th. He was so confident of total victory that he gave a victory toast beforehand.
Planet Lügen: The Black Lancers versus the 10th Fleet
The 10th Fleet above Planet Lügen
The Black Lancers, under command of Vice Admiral Bittenfeld from his flagship Königstiger, opened the assault by engaging the 10th Fleet in orbit of Planet Lügen.
Bittenfeld’s flagship, the Königstiger, painted in black like the rest of his fleet
From the flagship Pan-Gu, Vice Admiral Ulanhu sent a message to the 13th Fleet, noting that they had engaged the enemy, and hoping for assistance. Unfortunately, the assistance never came.
The 10th Fleet flagship Pan-Gu
Numbers wise, casualties between the fleets were equal – unfortunately the Black Lancers had started out with more ships. Further, low on supplies, the 10th Fleet was not operating at top efficiency. The Black Lancers succeeded in surrounding the 10th Fleet.
Doomed 10th Fleet ships plunge towards the planet
With fleet losses at 40% and the remaining 60% in no position to continue fighting, Ulanfu had no choice but to choose between surrender or retreat. He decided to try and break through the Black Lancer line and withdraw.
Putting the damaged vessels inside his formation, he organized the remains of the 10th fleet to take a spindle formation, with the intent of breaking through one corner of the Black Lancers’ siege.
Holding the Pan-Gu back to let as many damaged ships get through the breach, a breakthrough was achieved.
Ulanfu then ordered the launch of all remaining missiles – unfortunately, an energy beam struck the Pan-Gu’s missile launcher mid-launch, causing a massive warhead detonation and destroying the ship. Ulanhu was killed, but died knowing that he had saved almost 50% of his remaining forces.
Jafnhár System: Kempf Fleet versus the 13th Fleet
Yang’s flagship Hyperion and the 13th Fleet
Vice Admiral Kempf on his flagship Jotunheim opened his attack on the 13th Fleet with a missile swarm, whilst the Spartanian and Valkyrie fighters of the respective combatants fought for supremacy between and around them.
Kempf’s flagship, the Jotunheim.
Kempf’s missiles
Yang’s decoys detonate the missiles as Spartanians begin to launch
Yang’s Spartanian squadrons did well, outmatching the skill of the opposing Valkyrie pilots. In response, Kempf (a former Valkyrie pilot himself) ordered his pilots to half surround the enemy Spartanian’s from behind, and lure them into range of the main guns of the fleet. Considerable casualties amongst the Spartanians resulted.
Spartanians get close to one of Kempf’s cruisers
Taking a semi-circular formation, the 13th Fleet concentrated its attack on Kempf’s right flank. Once he shifted his line of defence, Yang shifted his focus to the left flank – and then the right again. Realising he was being taken in, Kempf ordered the fleet to take its own semi circular formation and respond to the enemy movements.
Yang admires Fischer’s work
With the expert coordination of the 13th Fleet afforded by the skill of (now) Rear Admiral Fischer, the 13th Fleet was able to get ahead of Kempf’s reaction times. It became apparent that soon they would be able to shave away the Imperial fleet’s line of defence.
Realizing the battle was turning into a bloody pummeling match, Kempf ordered a pullback to reorganize the fleet’s formation. Yang eschewed a counter-attack and instead ordered an immediate retreat, noting that the battle was pointless – even if he defeated the fleet in front of him, it would change nothing. The first consideration was to survive against the Imperial Fleet’s overwhelming superiority.
Surprised, Kempf did not follow too far, wary of a trap.
Bilrost System: Reuenthal Fleet vs the 5th Fleet
Vice Admiral Bucock was at an immediate disadvantage against Vice Admiral Reuenthal. Outmatched, he withdrew at full speed. The 5th Fleet suffered nearly 30% casualites.
Dverger System: Kircheis Fleet vs the 7th Fleet
Vice Admiral Kircheis succeeded in encircling and defeating the 7th Fleet. With Kircheis suggesting surrender, Vice Admiral Hawood accepted.
The remains of the 7th Fleet, surrounded
Alviss System: Mittermeyer Fleet vs the 9th Fleet
In the Alviss System, the Mittermeyer Fleet, led by the flagship Beowulf warped in at extreme close range to the 9th Fleet. Taken unawares, Vice Admiral Al Salem had no time to react before the Imperial fleet pulled back and opened fire.
A hit near the bridge of the his flagship, the Palamedes, sent a support cable loose and flying about the bridge, severely wounding Vice Admiral Al Salem. Turning over command to Rear Admiral Morton, Morton managed to save the fleet from complete destruction. The 9th Fleet suffered over 50% losses in the action.
The Beowulf, of a similar design to the Tristan, Reuenthal's flagship
Wänsteidt System: Mecklinger Fleet vs 8th Fleet
The 8th Fleet managed to escape from the Mecklinger Fleet, but sustained heavy losses (again, nearly 30%) in doing so.
The 8th Fleet struggles
Vice Admiral Mecklinger directs the battle from his flagship, the Kvasir
Planet Lesing: Wahlen Fleet vs the 3rd Fleet
The 3rd Fleet was decisively defeated by Vice Admiral Wahlen. The 3rd Fleet flagship, the Cu Chulainn, collided with a nearby friendly battleship, out of control from a pair of missile hits.
The impact sent the Cu Chulainn, and the battleship slamming into a nearby planetoid, destroying both ships, and killing Vice Admiral Lefebvre instantly. The 3rd Fleet was then wiped out.
The ill-fated Cu Chulainn
The Salamander and Vice Admiral Wahlen are bathed in the glow of the Cu Chulainn’s demise
Bolthorn System: Lutz Fleet vs the 12th Fleet
The Lutz Fleet achieved total victory over the 12th Fleet. With only 9 ships left, including the flagship Perun, Vice Admiral Borodin committed suicide on the bridge when his officers weren’t looking.
Vice Admiral Lutz’s flagship, the Skirnir, in the distance
Vice Admiral Borodin could not live with the catastrophe
His second in command ordered all ships to cease fire and stop their engines, and surrendered to Lutz.
Dverger System: Kircheis Fleet vs 13th Fleet
The 13th Fleet arrived in the Dwelg System, where the 7th Fleet had been stationed, with no sign of the 7th Fleet anywhere. The Kircheis Fleet, fresh from its victory, immediately approached.
With Kircheis’ fleet approximately four times the size of Yang’s, Kircheis, always magnanimous in battle, suggested surrender. Yang briefly considered doing so, before being shamed by the shocked reactions of his staff.
Kircheis’ flagship, the Barbarossa- a modified version of the supreme flagship Brunhild’s design
Kircheis’ formulated a battle plan where his fleet would divide into four parts, delivering continuous attacks, one at a time, in 2 hour shifts – he did not intend to annihilate Yang, but force the 13th Fleet to surrender, fatiguing the enemy via continuous battle.
Yang was impressed- Kircheis offered Yang no opportunity to seize the advantage or withdraw. With their inferior numbers, food and munitions shortage, as well as damage from battle with Kempf’s fleet, Yang’s defeat was inevitable.
Hyperion engaged
Calling Rear Admiral Fischer to the Hyperion, he asked him to arrange the fleet into a “U” formation, hoping to lure the enemy within and counterattack from three sides. Yang hoped that Kircheis would be daunted, reverse course at high speed, and give the 13th Fleet an opportunity to withdraw.
With the plan put into action, in the early stages it appeared to be going well, when all Alliance fleets were given the order to regroup at the Amritsar system. The 13th Fleet managed to effect a hasty withdrawal.
Finale at Amritsar
Back at Iserlohn, Admiral Dwight Greenhill had reported the situation to Fleet Admiral Lobos, recommending immediate withdrawal of what remained of the fleets to Iserlohn.
Lobos, refusing to accept reality, would have none of it. He ordered all ships to regroup at the Amritsar system for a decisive battle.
Intercepting the communications, Count von Lohengramm on the Brunhild couldn’t help but be amused.
"If they choose Amritsar as their grave, shall I not grant their wish?"
The remaining Alliance fleets – primarily the 5th, the 8th, and the 13th, gathered in close orbit of the Amlitzer star, with their rear protected by approximately 40 million space mines.
Hyperion bathed in Amritsar’s light
Soon after the Alliance fleet had assembled, the Mecklinger, Kempf, Bittenfeld, Reuenthal, and Mittermeyer fleets arrived and commenced their attack, with the Brunhild looking on.
Yang opened the defence by dropping fusion bombs into the Amritsar star, causing a stellar detonation that sent the 13th Fleet speeding upward towards Mittermeyer’s fleet, bringing it within close range.
Hyperion launches a salvo of fusion bombs
Caught on the backfoot, the Beowulf’s port hull was damaged, and Mittermeyer was forced to pull back, whilst preparing a counterattack should the 13th Fleet attempt to exploit its advantage.
Beowulf under heavy fire
Yang did not press his advantage too far. At this stage, the Black Lancers charged, aiming to flank the 13th Fleet from its 2 o’clock position.
The 13th Fleet responded by lining up its heavily armored battleships into a defensive wall, whilst having the smaller ships fire through the ‘seams’ in the wall.
The Black Lancers’ fast battleships attack as Alliance cruisers return fire, shielded by friendly battleships
Having defended itself against the onslaught, the 13th Fleet pulled back. Bittenfeld, annoyed at having been dodged, ordered the Black Lancers forward to attack the 8th Fleet, now in front of them.
Forward! Forward! The goddess of victory is waving her underwear in your faces!
The 8th Fleet flagship, the Krishna, suffered a hit in its engine room. Unable to maintain orbit, Vice Admiral Appleton ordered all hands to abandon ship. Witnessing the destruction of his fleet, he remained aboard as the ship plunged into the star.
The Krishna right before the end
Krishna falls
The situation after the 8th Fleet’s collapse
Meanwhile continuing pressure from Mecklinger was starting to tell against Yang’s fleet.
Bittenfeld, eager to conclude the victory, ordered the Black Lancers to reverse course and attack the 13th Fleet, hoping to destroy it from both sides with Mecklinger. He ordered the guns switched to close range and for the Valkyries to be launched.
It was what Yang had been waiting for – as the Black Lancers turned the 13th fired on them at their most vulnerable, causing significant casualties and destroying many of the Valkyrie fighters just as they left their hangar bays.
The Black Lancers come under fire mid-turn
Valkyries caught whilst launching
Count Lohengramm was furious. Upon hearing Bittenfeld’s request for reinforcements, Reinhard fumed that he had no spare battle strength. He was to perform his duty as a warrior and defend his post to the death. To ram the point home, all further communications from Bittenfeld were ignored.
At the same time, Lohengramm couldn’t help but admire the activity of the 13th Fleet and Yang Wenli. Although the battle was still going well, Commodore Oberstein noted the situation was becoming such that damage to the fleet couldn’t be overlooked. Lohengramm was waiting for Kircheis to arrive.
Oberstein needn’t have worried – Kircheis, along with Lutz and Wahlen, were just entering the battle.
Moving to attack the enemy from behind, Kircheis had deployed his forces with the Alliance space mines ahead of them. A way through the field was cleared by the use of directional Seffle particle generators – a new Imperial technology.
Engineering ships emit directional Seffle particles
Barbarossa does the honors
Gunfire detonates the particles, clearing a way through the minefield
Now the Alliance fleet had an additional 30,000 enemy ships attacking from the rear, and was in danger of complete annihilation. By 2300 hours on October 15th, the battle was over. The shattered remnants of the Alliance fleet began to retreat, with the Imperial fleet in hot pursuit. Count Lohengramm declined to advance the flagship and enter the battle, reasoning that entering the battle now would be viewed as an attempt to usurp his subordinates’ glory.
The Alliance fleet is torn up as it flees
Reinhard enjoys the view
Yang knew it was too early for him to withdraw – he had to save the remains of the other fleets. Taking the position of rearguard, he told Bucock to use the respite to regroup each fleet’s command system and retreat to Iserlohn.
Putting the fleet in a swarm formation, the 13th concentrated its fire at the head of the Imperial formation whilst retreating, doing considerable damage. If it could hold out against the enemy for just a short while, the allied forces could finalise their retreat.
Both impressed and annoyed, Lohengramm determined not to let Yang have things his own way, and ordered the wings of the fleet spread out in a siege formation to contain and destroy the 13th Fleet.
Unfortunately, the Black Lancers were too depleted to contribute effectively to the formation, leaving a weakness in the Imperial line. Kircheis would have to reinforce Bittenfeld.
Yang chose that moment to break through – aiming right for the Black Lancers, the 13th Fleet broke through and escaped. Bittenfeld was forced to give way, but only after being implored to by his subordinates to wait for another battle to have his revenge.
Reinhard gave the order for all fleets to eliminate the remaining enemy, and start for home.
Aftermath
The Alliance
The invasion of Imperial territory was a complete catastrophe for the Free Planets Alliance. Though their fleet had avoided complete annihilation thanks to Yang, the magnitude of the Imperial victory was indisputable – 20,000,000 men had been lost out of the more than 30,000,000 mobilized. Reinhard had dealt the Alliance military a blow that would cripple it for the foreseeable future.
Politically, Job Trunicht– by simultaneously opposing the dispatch of troops (when same was already a foregone conclusion) and controlling the fleet - came out with greatly increased influence - being appointed temporary head of the High Council.
The consequences for numerous Alliance top brass was severe. Rear Admiral Cazerne, though he was not especially responsible for the supply failure, was relegated to the colonized frontier’s Supply Base #14.
Fleet Admiral Sitolet was forced into retirement. He was replaced as HQ Chief by Admiral Kubersly. Fleet Admiral Lobos was replaced as Space Fleet Commander by Admiral Bucock.
Both Kubersly and Bucock valued Yang highly – with Admiral Greenhill being moved from Chief of Staff to Chief of Investigations, Yang was tipped for the position.
Yang preferred to take up the position of commander of Iserlohn Fortress. He was promoted to full Admiral, and Iserlohn became the permanent base of what had now officially become the 'Yang Fleet'. Rear Admiral Murai was appointed Chief of Staff, with Commodore Patrichev as Vice Chief of Staff. Rear Admiral Fischer became Vice Fleet Commander. Fleet squadron commanders were Commodore Nguyen Van Huu and Commodore Dusty Attenborough. Aerial Corps Chiefs were Lt Commanders Olivier Poplin and Ivan Konev. Fortress Defence Commander was Brigadier General Walter von Schenkopp.
Yang told Rear Admiral Cazerne that it wouldn’t be long before he was reassigned from rear duty to Iserlohn, as Fortress Business Inspector General.
Finally, Julian Mintz, Yang’s ward, was assigned as an Officer’s Orderly.
The Empire
On the personnel level, Reinhard determined to punish Bittenfeld for his recklessness, and hold an enquiry into his accountability upon their return to Odin.
Kircheis interceded – he knew that Reinhard was more angry at himself – and Yang – who had made a name for himself completely on his own - than at Bittenfeld.
”Tiamat … Astarte … And now Amritsar. Why does that bastard show up and interfere whenever I’m about to win completely?!”
Noting that Reinhard had enemies in Yang in front of him and the high nobles behind, Kircheis persuaded him he should not make enemies of his own subordinates as well. Vice Admiral Bittenfeld was not punished.
On the way home, Count Lohengramm learned that Kaiser Friedrich IV had died of a heart attack. The consequences for the Empire, and the galaxy, would not be long in coming.
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Re: Legend of the Galactic Heroes: Battles
EDIT: Forgot to take a screencap of Beowulf. Fixed.
I expect to edit that again when I watch the later episodes to see if the aftermath in terms of casualties is discussed in more detail.
One interesting thing I got from the 3rd Tiamat 2-parter in Spiral Labyrinth is that the reason the 11th Fleet didn't' participate in the invasion is because it was probably still recovering from the beatdown it got at Reinhard's hands at 3rd Tiamat. That Admiral Holland was a lunatic.
I expect to edit that again when I watch the later episodes to see if the aftermath in terms of casualties is discussed in more detail.
One interesting thing I got from the 3rd Tiamat 2-parter in Spiral Labyrinth is that the reason the 11th Fleet didn't' participate in the invasion is because it was probably still recovering from the beatdown it got at Reinhard's hands at 3rd Tiamat. That Admiral Holland was a lunatic.
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Re: Legend of the Galactic Heroes: Battles
You good sir, are awesome.
Battle at Amlitzer is one of the best if not the best example how to depict massive space battles over several fronts. This should be mandatory material to anyone who portrays space battles in writing, film or otherwise. Just for the cool factor, music is Dvorak's 9th symphony. That is so cool, and the action is paced to the music so well, I'm sure it's illegal in some parts of the world.
Just noticed something interesting. In the bottom half of the picture titled "Hyperion engaged" it looks like there is three beams coming from a single firing port of the imperial ship. It's highly likely that imperial ships can combine those beams into one in similar fashion done elsewhere in the series, and it would even seem probable this is done when converting guns to short range fire. I'm not 100% sure, but I don't recall any instances where FPA ships we're ordered to convert to short range fire.
In addition this would seem logical considering how long range fights are more about saturating the area with cannon fire rather than trying to hit individual ships.
-Gunhead
Battle at Amlitzer is one of the best if not the best example how to depict massive space battles over several fronts. This should be mandatory material to anyone who portrays space battles in writing, film or otherwise. Just for the cool factor, music is Dvorak's 9th symphony. That is so cool, and the action is paced to the music so well, I'm sure it's illegal in some parts of the world.
Just noticed something interesting. In the bottom half of the picture titled "Hyperion engaged" it looks like there is three beams coming from a single firing port of the imperial ship. It's highly likely that imperial ships can combine those beams into one in similar fashion done elsewhere in the series, and it would even seem probable this is done when converting guns to short range fire. I'm not 100% sure, but I don't recall any instances where FPA ships we're ordered to convert to short range fire.
In addition this would seem logical considering how long range fights are more about saturating the area with cannon fire rather than trying to hit individual ships.
-Gunhead
"In the absence of orders, go find something and kill it."
-Generalfeldmarschall Erwin Rommel
"And if you don't wanna feel like a putz
Collect the clues and connect the dots
You'll see the pattern that is bursting your bubble, and it's Bad" -The Hives
-Generalfeldmarschall Erwin Rommel
"And if you don't wanna feel like a putz
Collect the clues and connect the dots
You'll see the pattern that is bursting your bubble, and it's Bad" -The Hives
-
montypython
- Jedi Master
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Re: Legend of the Galactic Heroes: Battles
The logistics issue would have made more sense in terms of munitions and spare parts expenditures rather than food, I mean even modern technology is capable of synthesizing artificial foodstuffs, and a fleet not having such equipment on hand is just asinine to begin with.
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Darksider
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Re: Legend of the Galactic Heroes: Battles
Watching this series makes me wish the Free Planets Alliance wasn't so goddamn incompetent so the bad guys don't win every single time.
Yes, I know Reinhard isn't as evil as most villains in fiction, but he's still trying to conquer the entire universe and bring it under his personal control. In my book, that makes him a villain.
Yes, I know Reinhard isn't as evil as most villains in fiction, but he's still trying to conquer the entire universe and bring it under his personal control. In my book, that makes him a villain.
And this is why you don't watch anything produced by Ronald D. Moore after he had his brain surgically removed and replaced with a bag of elephant semen.-Gramzamber, on why Caprica sucks
Re: Legend of the Galactic Heroes: Battles
Reinhard's a benevolent dictator, it's hard for me to think as him in a villain. Given that all he's seen of the Free Planets Alliance is incompetence and corruption, and given the society in which he grew up, its unsurprising that his solution to the problem was to take control himself.Darksider wrote:Watching this series makes me wish the Free Planets Alliance wasn't so goddamn incompetent so the bad guys don't win every single time.
Yes, I know Reinhard isn't as evil as most villains in fiction, but he's still trying to conquer the entire universe and bring it under his personal control. In my book, that makes him a villain.
One thing I liked about the show is the subtle hints that Kaiser Friedrich IV really wasn't as bad as Reinhard thought he was. He recognised Reinhard's potential and ambition immediately - and nurtured it without reservation. He very clearly wanted Reinhard to succeed him.
Yeah one of the best parts is where Mittermeyer jumps that Alliance Fleet- the timing with the music is just perfect.Battle at Amlitzer is one of the best if not the best example how to depict massive space battles over several fronts. This should be mandatory material to anyone who portrays space battles in writing, film or otherwise. Just for the cool factor, music is Dvorak's 9th symphony. That is so cool, and the action is paced to the music so well, I'm sure it's illegal in some parts of the world.
We know from certain episodes (as well as the 3rd Tiamat battle) that the fleets can do "artillery fire" where all/a lot of the fleet's beams combine into one massive beam - it may be the reason we so often see only individual beams striking ships when they're firing so many at a time is that over long range they may combine into one?Just noticed something interesting. In the bottom half of the picture titled "Hyperion engaged" it looks like there is three beams coming from a single firing port of the imperial ship. It's highly likely that imperial ships can combine those beams into one in similar fashion done elsewhere in the series, and it would even seem probable this is done when converting guns to short range fire. I'm not 100% sure, but I don't recall any instances where FPA ships we're ordered to convert to short range fire.
In addition this would seem logical considering how long range fights are more about saturating the area with cannon fire rather than trying to hit individual ships.
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Ford Prefect
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Re: Legend of the Galactic Heroes: Battles
Yeah, it's pretty obvious that despite being presented in a favourable light, a lot of Reinhard's beliefs are largely his own naivety in play. The Kaiser is just oneo f these things: Reinhard thinks of him as a terrible tyrant but he's ... obviously not. It's interesting to compare him to Yang, who is presented as being much more in tune with how things actually are. Reinhard is in part blinded by his own ambition, which is driven by stuff from his childhood etc. The show isn't exactly even handed given that it favours the main characters and their subordinates, and Reinhard has more subordinates.Vympel wrote:Reinhard's a benevolent dictator, it's hard for me to think as him in a villain. Given that all he's seen of the Free Planets Alliance is incompetence and corruption, and given the society in which he grew up, its unsurprising that his solution to the problem was to take control himself.
One thing I liked about the show is the subtle hints that Kaiser Friedrich IV really wasn't as bad as Reinhard thought he was. He recognised Reinhard's potential and ambition immediately - and nurtured it without reservation. He very clearly wanted Reinhard to succeed him.
That said, as much as I would prefer the FPA over the Empire, you have to admit that any nation which elects Job Trunhit into power is fucked.
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Here's to a certain mostly harmless nutcase.
Here's to a certain mostly harmless nutcase.
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Darksider
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Re: Legend of the Galactic Heroes: Battles
I was practically screaming at the screen when that fucking pussy ordered Yang to stand down to save his own sorry ass rather than let him take out Reinhard. If the FPA's ruling council had actually had balls, the Alliance could have been saved then and there. I haven't quite reached the end of the series yet, but I seriously hope that bastard gets what's coming to him.
The only reason the Empire is even a remotely palatable option is because the series goes out of it's way to show that nearly everyone in power in the FPA is either A: a coward, or B: a corrupt asshole.
The only reason the Empire is even a remotely palatable option is because the series goes out of it's way to show that nearly everyone in power in the FPA is either A: a coward, or B: a corrupt asshole.
And this is why you don't watch anything produced by Ronald D. Moore after he had his brain surgically removed and replaced with a bag of elephant semen.-Gramzamber, on why Caprica sucks
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Ford Prefect
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Re: Legend of the Galactic Heroes: Battles
To be fair, it's not like the Empire is free from that sort of presentation either. Remember how Muckenburger considered sacrificing the entire Musel Fleet as a good price to pay to off Reinhard? And how the Astate battle was basically a calculated attempt to get Reinhard killed? There's all sorts of behind-the-scenes politicking and backstabbing that goes on amongst the nobility; Reinhard himself engages in it following Yang's capture of Iserlohn.
What is Project Zohar?
Here's to a certain mostly harmless nutcase.
Here's to a certain mostly harmless nutcase.
Re: Legend of the Galactic Heroes: Battles
You're heavily missing the point of the series if you insist on looking at the sides in black and white terms.Darksider wrote:Watching this series makes me wish the Free Planets Alliance wasn't so goddamn incompetent so the bad guys don't win every single time.
Yes, I know Reinhard isn't as evil as most villains in fiction, but he's still trying to conquer the entire universe and bring it under his personal control. In my book, that makes him a villain.
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Tornado Ninja Fan
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Re: Legend of the Galactic Heroes: Battles
After seeing those huge fleets annihilated and millions of soldiers dead, it strikes me as odd how small the population of the planets are.More than 200 star systems fell into Alliance hands without opposition, some of them inhabited, with 50 million Imperial citizens in all.
50 million divided by 200 is just 250,000 people per planet. Or do they count uninhabitated star systems too? Even if there were only ten inhabitated planets, a population of 5 million for a complete planet sounds very sparse.
And if I remember correctly, in the fourth season it was mentioned that the complete population of the empire was circa 60 billion people.
Re: Legend of the Galactic Heroes: Battles
Those 200 planets include uninhabited worlds. And the population of the empire is 25 billion, with the Alliance's population being less than that, though can't remember how many off the top of my head.After seeing those huge fleets annihilated and millions of soldiers dead, it strikes me as odd how small the population of the planets are.
50 million divided by 200 is just 250,000 people per planet. Or do they count uninhabitated star systems too? Even if there were only ten inhabitated planets, a population of 5 million for a complete planet sounds very sparse.
And if I remember correctly, in the fourth season it was mentioned that the complete population of the empire was circa 60 billion people.
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Uraniun235
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Re: Legend of the Galactic Heroes: Battles
I think I recently saw it listed in an episode as 12 billion. Phezzan has 2 billion.
Additionally, I was re-watching the pilot and noticed something:
It appears the cruiser Ulysses may be 624 meters long.
Additionally, I was re-watching the pilot and noticed something:
It appears the cruiser Ulysses may be 624 meters long.
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What is Project Zohar?
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Marcus Aurelius
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Re: Legend of the Galactic Heroes: Battles
Those are probably fairly recently colonized planets. Because the empire (and other societies in LoGH) are reasonably advanced, there is no reason for the people to breed like rabbits. So it probably takes a long time for a planet to get to a population of 1 billion even with continuous immigration. Some of those planets may not even be suitable for very large populations without extensive terraforming, which may been seen as unnecessary expense if there are still other planets suitable for colonization available and no significant population pressure in the more established worlds, as population of only 25 billion would suggest.Tornado Ninja Fan wrote: 50 million divided by 200 is just 250,000 people per planet. Or do they count uninhabitated star systems too? Even if there were only ten inhabitated planets, a population of 5 million for a complete planet sounds very sparse.
And if I remember correctly, in the fourth season it was mentioned that the complete population of the empire was circa 60 billion people.
Re: Legend of the Galactic Heroes: Battles
LoGH has some weird population issues.
-The known Galaxy had a population of about 400 billion at the time of the foundation of the Goldenbaum dynasty, which was reduced to about 1/16th of what it is by the series. (Possibly explained by Rudolf's Eugenics programs, but i don't know if those were continued after his death).
-The FPA was established from some 160,000 original settlers which had over the course of a century managed to expand its population and industrial base to the point where they could fight off the Empire's attempts at reconquest.
Zor
-The known Galaxy had a population of about 400 billion at the time of the foundation of the Goldenbaum dynasty, which was reduced to about 1/16th of what it is by the series. (Possibly explained by Rudolf's Eugenics programs, but i don't know if those were continued after his death).
-The FPA was established from some 160,000 original settlers which had over the course of a century managed to expand its population and industrial base to the point where they could fight off the Empire's attempts at reconquest.
Zor
HAIL ZOR! WE'LL BLOW UP THE OCEAN!
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Uraniun235
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Re: Legend of the Galactic Heroes: Battles
The history-lecture episodes actually openly state that billions of people were killed by Goldenbaum's policies. I'd have to review the episode to see just how many were killed, although if you're right about it starting at four hundred billion, it wouldn't surprise me if the numbers didn't quite add up.
"There is no "taboo" on using nuclear weapons." -Julhelm
What is Project Zohar?
"On a serious note (well not really) I did sometimes jump in and rate nBSG episodes a '5' before the episode even aired or I saw it." - RogueIce explaining that episode ratings on SDN tv show threads are bunk
"On a serious note (well not really) I did sometimes jump in and rate nBSG episodes a '5' before the episode even aired or I saw it." - RogueIce explaining that episode ratings on SDN tv show threads are bunk
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Grandmaster Jogurt
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Re: Legend of the Galactic Heroes: Battles
It's also been centuries since the population was that high. Maybe Goldenbaum himself only killed five billion, but there were a lot of successors to keep it up, and it could also just manifest as a largely suppressed birth rate.
Re: Legend of the Galactic Heroes: Battles
I'd have to check but as I recall the eugenics program was quietly buried after Goldenbaums death and I pretty sure his son was also handicapped in some way. Or even to a point the dynasty survived but not by direct lineage.Zor wrote:LoGH has some weird population issues.
-The known Galaxy had a population of about 400 billion at the time of the foundation of the Goldenbaum dynasty, which was reduced to about 1/16th of what it is by the series. (Possibly explained by Rudolf's Eugenics programs, but i don't know if those were continued after his death).
-The FPA was established from some 160,000 original settlers which had over the course of a century managed to expand its population and industrial base to the point where they could fight off the Empire's attempts at reconquest.
Zor
-Gunhead
"In the absence of orders, go find something and kill it."
-Generalfeldmarschall Erwin Rommel
"And if you don't wanna feel like a putz
Collect the clues and connect the dots
You'll see the pattern that is bursting your bubble, and it's Bad" -The Hives
-Generalfeldmarschall Erwin Rommel
"And if you don't wanna feel like a putz
Collect the clues and connect the dots
You'll see the pattern that is bursting your bubble, and it's Bad" -The Hives
Re: Legend of the Galactic Heroes: Battles
So ok I went back and checked, After Rudolf Goldenbaum came his grandson Sieggst I his father as regent. Rudolf's only son was illegitimate and mentally retarded. He never produced legitimate male heir.
As to the population part. I checked and the narrator says population ratios are 25 billion Empire 13 billion FPA 2 billon Phezzan so taking that 300 billion estimate earlier we'd get population of around 300 billion Empire, 156 billion FPA 24 billion Phezzan. So I'm sort of convinced he's not talking about absolute population figures but relative amount of people.
Now this is again somewhat dodgy at best and maybe have to dig a little deeper. But I do firmly believe both major nations have populations well excess of the numbers given because otherwise casualties from a single major battle would be perhaps as high as 2% of total population and I just don't think either side could maintain that sort of casualty rate over a war that lasts decades.
Even if major battles are fought once every few years.
Oh yeah more numbers Rudolf's reign caused 4 billion dead and according to narrator that's 1.3 % of the total imperial population.
2nd emperor Sigissmund I caused 500 million casualties and stripped citizenship + rights from 10 billion people.
-Gunhead
As to the population part. I checked and the narrator says population ratios are 25 billion Empire 13 billion FPA 2 billon Phezzan so taking that 300 billion estimate earlier we'd get population of around 300 billion Empire, 156 billion FPA 24 billion Phezzan. So I'm sort of convinced he's not talking about absolute population figures but relative amount of people.
Now this is again somewhat dodgy at best and maybe have to dig a little deeper. But I do firmly believe both major nations have populations well excess of the numbers given because otherwise casualties from a single major battle would be perhaps as high as 2% of total population and I just don't think either side could maintain that sort of casualty rate over a war that lasts decades.
Even if major battles are fought once every few years.
Oh yeah more numbers Rudolf's reign caused 4 billion dead and according to narrator that's 1.3 % of the total imperial population.
2nd emperor Sigissmund I caused 500 million casualties and stripped citizenship + rights from 10 billion people.
-Gunhead
"In the absence of orders, go find something and kill it."
-Generalfeldmarschall Erwin Rommel
"And if you don't wanna feel like a putz
Collect the clues and connect the dots
You'll see the pattern that is bursting your bubble, and it's Bad" -The Hives
-Generalfeldmarschall Erwin Rommel
"And if you don't wanna feel like a putz
Collect the clues and connect the dots
You'll see the pattern that is bursting your bubble, and it's Bad" -The Hives
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Marcus Aurelius
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Re: Legend of the Galactic Heroes: Battles
You mean that casualties in a single battle are as high as 26 million people? Because that would be 2% of the 13 billion population of the FPA... I haven't seen the whole series, but I remember casualties in space battles are typically somewhere around few hundred thousand. That is still a lot, but with a population nearly twice that of modern Earth casualties in the low millions do not seem like too much if spread over several years.Gunhead wrote: Now this is again somewhat dodgy at best and maybe have to dig a little deeper. But I do firmly believe both major nations have populations well excess of the numbers given because otherwise casualties from a single major battle would be perhaps as high as 2% of total population and I just don't think either side could maintain that sort of casualty rate over a war that lasts decades.
Even if major battles are fought once every few years.
-Gunhead
Re: Legend of the Galactic Heroes: Battles
Aww fuck. Well serves me right for trying to do several things at the same time. It's should be 0.2 percent of the total population roughly because the highest total number of casualties from any operation / battle is about 2 million.
Well anyway might as well put it here. In addition to me not being able to do math, there's this: When Lohengram suggest a prisoner exchange the total number of prisoners swapped is 2 million and to that Yang comments it's an obvious trap, but since there's a general election coming those 2 million repatriates equal roughly 5 million votes and this would suggest it's a significant amount of people considering Yang doesn't believe that even if he warned the government the exchange would be stopped.
So I'm retracting some of the previous post since the only number that doesn't really add up is the 4 billion casualties caused by Rudolf and this being 1.3% of the total imperial population.
-Gunhead
Well anyway might as well put it here. In addition to me not being able to do math, there's this: When Lohengram suggest a prisoner exchange the total number of prisoners swapped is 2 million and to that Yang comments it's an obvious trap, but since there's a general election coming those 2 million repatriates equal roughly 5 million votes and this would suggest it's a significant amount of people considering Yang doesn't believe that even if he warned the government the exchange would be stopped.
So I'm retracting some of the previous post since the only number that doesn't really add up is the 4 billion casualties caused by Rudolf and this being 1.3% of the total imperial population.
-Gunhead
"In the absence of orders, go find something and kill it."
-Generalfeldmarschall Erwin Rommel
"And if you don't wanna feel like a putz
Collect the clues and connect the dots
You'll see the pattern that is bursting your bubble, and it's Bad" -The Hives
-Generalfeldmarschall Erwin Rommel
"And if you don't wanna feel like a putz
Collect the clues and connect the dots
You'll see the pattern that is bursting your bubble, and it's Bad" -The Hives