Design a simple experiment: Debunking Ouija

[Lagmonster]

As part of the universe's ongoing attempt to piss me off, I've been asked by a friend to deflate a couple of smarmy occultists' smug claims about the you'd-think-people-would-be-over-it-by-now Ouija board.

So, because I owe them a favour, I've agreed. I've done similar things before, but I'm trying to construct a simple experiment that will derail their claims.

The claim is that the ouija board uses the human and the planchette as a conductor to recieve messages, in written English, from a supernatural source. What the source is, is not relevant to this experiment, we're just targeting the whole 'recieving messages' part. They insist, that the conditions are that the operator be physically in contact with the planchette and be able to have whatever charms and incense they deem necessary, that they can choose the location, and that they will be able to tell us when and if they have 'contacted' something. I don't particularly like the last one because they can always claim they can't find anyone to contact as a way of weaseling out, but they're already feeling their backs to the wall on this one and I want to make sure I get them to go through with it rather than running away, which is what most of these types do when pressed. So, I made the concessions. They've provided no testable mechanism, obviously, so I'm working pretty much with what any teenager with a Milton Bradley board would have (if they'd hauled off and claimed spirits contact us via electromagnetism or something, this would be open and shut).

They've agreed that the event can be filmed. All I have to do is come up with the actual test. I've got one in mind that I've used before, but I want to poll SDnet and see what, if anything, our other skeptics might suggest. It has to be simple enough that the results will make sense to an audience of laypeople (I'm not concerned about the occultists themselves - true believers wouldn't change their minds even if the ouija board told them to).

[The Spartan]

According to James Randi, whenever the operator(s) are blindfolded, only gibberish is produced.

http://www.randi.org/encyclopedia/Ouija%20board.html

[Oskuro]

I guess using a board with a different character set is out of the question.

[GrandMasterTerwynn]

I guess using a board with a different character set is out of the question.

Nah, all he has to do is just get a big sheet of paper and randomly print letters and numbers all over it. And then blindfold the occultist. After all, presumably, the spirits of the netherworld are apparently literate, so it shouldn't matter where the letters are. The spirits of the netherworld also, presumably, have ectoplasmic eyeballs, so they can see. So, if there were anything at all to Ouija, the occultist should be able to produce coherent messages while blindfolded, on a board with a completely arbitrary arrangement of letters and numbers.

Only no occultist in their right mind would agree to a test like that . . . so the alternative is to blindfold the occultist, and then set up some sort of sheet between them and the Ouija board, so that they can't see their hands, and they can't see the board, even if they've managed to peek under the blindfold. He could set up two cameras; one on the occultist's side of the sheet, and one on the board. And then, hilarity ensues.

[Solauren]

Set things up like this -

#1 - Create a Ouija board where the characters are not in the standard position. Use the pattern on a keyboard as a guide. Hell, duplicate a keyboard. Make sure to make a corresponds to normal position map.

#2 - Before they even see the board, blindfold 'victims'. In this case, I mean as in, put cotton balls over their eyes, followed by the blindfold. The level doctors go to for eye-surgery patients.

#3 - Set up an overhead camera to record the session.

#4 - Do the 'seance' and write down the results.

#5 - Also translate the results into the correspondance, 'in case the spirits move things according to the actual position of the board'.

#6 - Show results. You now have 2 steams of gibberish. One that was the 'message', and one just in case 'well, if it was a proper board, the results would have been different'.

#7 - Be sure to rotate the board several times. i.e 1 set of questions, then another, then another, then another. That way, you have 4 sets of 'test data'. And if someone memorized the character positions, well, you've screwed with them either way.

#8 - Mock them ruthlessly.

[Simon_Jester]

I guess using a board with a different character set is out of the question.

Nah, all he has to do is just get a big sheet of paper and randomly print letters and numbers all over it. And then blindfold the occultist. After all, presumably, the spirits of the netherworld are apparently literate, so it shouldn't matter where the letters are. The spirits of the netherworld also, presumably, have ectoplasmic eyeballs, so they can see. So, if there were anything at all to Ouija, the occultist should be able to produce coherent messages while blindfolded, on a board with a completely arbitrary arrangement of letters and numbers.

You know, if one actually believed in spirits of the netherworld that can interact with the human mind, it would come as no surprise to learn that they did not have eyes, and instead perceived the world in entirely different terms (such as seeing everything as a vacuum filled with big glowy minds). In which case they couldn't use an Ouija board without possessing some conveniently available being with eyeballs.

In that kind of model of how the universe works, where "souls" are real things of a type totally different from things like atoms and electromagnetic fields, knowing that an entity interacts with the human mind doesn't mean it interacts with that mind's surroundings.

A more fatal test to Ouija nuttery would be to get a battery of Ouija board operators and ask them all the same questions, in parallel. That confirms that not only does the board not work when the operator can't read it, but that the board doesn't reliably answer questions the same way each time.

[Lagmonster]

You know, if one actually believed in spirits of the netherworld that can interact with the human mind, it would come as no surprise to learn that they did not have eyes, and instead perceived the world in entirely different terms (such as seeing everything as a vacuum filled with big glowy minds). In which case they couldn't use an Ouija board without possessing some conveniently available being with eyeballs.

Based on that, I'm already predicting that they'll refuse to test blindfolded. I'm also positive they'll refuse to test on a 'fake' Ouija board. I've heard both arguments before; that one needs the eyes, and that only officially spooky boards work well.

I'm trying to design a test they can operate without blindfolds, but it's difficult.

As an aside, and I can't do this in this instance, but I once was witness to a setup where the board was a trick board with an under-table magnetic setup. The occultists used the board, without knowing that one of the participants was in on the gag and was manipulating the tool to give hilarious answers. The results were side-splittingly funny.

A more fatal test to Ouija nuttery would be to get a battery of Ouija board operators and ask them all the same questions, in parallel. That confirms that not only does the board not work when the operator can't read it, but that the board doesn't reliably answer questions the same way each time.

They have an excuse for that, too. They answer that sometimes, the board summons mischevious or decietful spirits, or that different spirits have different ideas, or that ghosts are no more reliable for information or prone to honesty than the humans they used to be.

[Oskuro]

Yeah, the blindfold can be countered by claiming that the spirits use the eyes of the participants to see the board.

Same excuse can be used to handwave away the use of English ("The spirits can only understand the language that the person they posses understands")

If they are given free rein to make up excuses, it'll be hard to test the thing. Aren't there some "Official" rules on how the Ouija board works? It'd be nice to have them in hand to point out whatever bullshit they make that contradicts them.

[Formless]

The more excuses they come up with, the more the principal of Falsification rules out their claims. At some point, what makes it impossible for you to claim that the devil is possessing them and making them write lies?

A good couple ways to test this based on the excuses given so far:

Randomly insert a skeptic in their midst but don't tell them who it is until after the test is over. Have this person think about a specific subject, then see what gets written. Presumably, the spirits don't care whether or not someone believes in this hocus pocus or what they are thinking about at the time, right?

An even better test in a similar vein, but one which you probably don't have the resources to conduct, would be to get together several groups and conduct a proper psychology experiment. Half of them do a séance (or whatever they are called) without any tampering by the experimenters, half of them have a subject or idea subconsciously suggested to them by the experimenters. Obviously its critical that none of them know whether they are in the control group or the experimental group. If the people who had an idea or subject primed to them get messages related to that subject or idea, then it would suggest an alternative hypothesis: that the messages received in a séance are the product of what's on the subject's (subconscious) mind at the time, not the channeled messages of dead spirits.

[Twoyboy]

How many Ouija board operators are there? If there's plenty to choose from, you'll no doubt be able to find two who have very different opinions on other issues. Get two people like this, put them on the board together, ask controversial questions and watch as hilarity ensues with each person trying to surreptitiously and "subconsciously" guide the answer in opposite ways.

It won't prove anything because they can use the excuse of more than one spirit, but they'll look silly and you'll get a good laugh.

[Simon_Jester]

You know, if one actually believed in spirits of the netherworld that can interact with the human mind, it would come as no surprise to learn that they did not have eyes, and instead perceived the world in entirely different terms (such as seeing everything as a vacuum filled with big glowy minds). In which case they couldn't use an Ouija board without possessing some conveniently available being with eyeballs.

Based on that, I'm already predicting that they'll refuse to test blindfolded. I'm also positive they'll refuse to test on a 'fake' Ouija board. I've heard both arguments before; that one needs the eyes, and that only officially spooky boards work well.

Thing is, the first argument (they need the operator's eyes) actually makes sense given the initial premise. If you've got a bodiless spirit floating around, why would it be able to see anything on its own rather than tapping into your "soul" and using the take from your own eyes?

Of course, that argument folds very quickly if the configuration of the board matters, because the spirits should be able to read any board of any random configuration if they're using the operator's eyes to see it. So the second one "only official boards work" is stupid, but untestably stupid, since a cheating operator would be able to use a random board too, given that they can see it.

A more fatal test to Ouija nuttery would be to get a battery of Ouija board operators and ask them all the same questions, in parallel. That confirms that not only does the board not work when the operator can't read it, but that the board doesn't reliably answer questions the same way each time.

They have an excuse for that, too. They answer that sometimes, the board summons mischevious or decietful spirits, or that different spirits have different ideas, or that ghosts are no more reliable for information or prone to honesty than the humans they used to be.

At this point, you do have every reason to invoke Formless's argument and ask them how they can prove that their entire Ouija thing isn't just a scam by malevolent spirits- that the devil isn't possessing them and making them write lies.

Thing is, what you can do with the "battery of operators" technique is prove that the correlation between different operators' answers is no better than chance would indicate. Or that an otherwise "reliable" spirit who gives true information about subjects known to the operator suddenly starts spouting bullshit when you ask questions about your fictitious Aunt Sally, rather than merely politely informing the operator that you don't have an Aunt Sally.

At which point you might as well flip a damn coin as hire an Ouija operator, which is what you're trying to prove: that even if there ARE spirits from the netherworld and that the Ouija board is a viable way to practice necromancy*, they're so colossally unreliable as to make the Ouija operator a sad twisted joke.

*Literally "communication with the dead" in the original Greek.

[GrandMasterTerwynn]

You know, if one actually believed in spirits of the netherworld that can interact with the human mind, it would come as no surprise to learn that they did not have eyes, and instead perceived the world in entirely different terms (such as seeing everything as a vacuum filled with big glowy minds). In which case they couldn't use an Ouija board without possessing some conveniently available being with eyeballs.

Based on that, I'm already predicting that they'll refuse to test blindfolded. I'm also positive they'll refuse to test on a 'fake' Ouija board. I've heard both arguments before; that one needs the eyes, and that only officially spooky boards work well.

I'm trying to design a test they can operate without blindfolds, but it's difficult.

Here's one. Have a trusted friend of the occultist in a separate room try to communicate specific written messages. Ideally, these messages should be designed to both require as little movement on the board as possible, and as much movement on the board as possible. They should also be of different lengths. To make it more appealing to the occultist, they could be comprised of just one or two words. Presumably, the occultist can nicely ask the spirits of the netherworld to possess their friend and act as a courier service.

Said occultist should wear headphones and have no way of seeing the friend until after the session is finished. Said friend should be carefully supervised. Even if the spirits were feeling off, or especially mischievous, or were wholly illiterate; the success rate of the occultist should be higher than would be expected by chance (were there actually spirits of the netherworld, which there are not.) Record the whole thing for hilarity.

[General Zod]

Thing is, the first argument (they need the operator's eyes) actually makes sense given the initial premise. If you've got a bodiless spirit floating around, why would it be able to see anything on its own rather than tapping into your "soul" and using the take from your own eyes?

Of course, that argument folds very quickly if the configuration of the board matters, because the spirits should be able to read any board of any random configuration if they're using the operator's eyes to see it. So the second one "only official boards work" is stupid, but untestably stupid, since a cheating operator would be able to use a random board too, given that they can see it.

A more important question would be, if they can't see without the operator then how can they tell who the operator actually is? They should give every single criteria for summoning the spirit that they can think of so it can be tested, and then be made to agree on the conditions formally. It doesn't seem like this would get very far if they can backpedal their way out of it.

[Formless]

A more important question would be, if they can't see without the operator then how can they tell who the operator actually is?

Or know that this human just happens to be operating an Oujja board?

[General Zod]

A more important question would be, if they can't see without the operator then how can they tell who the operator actually is?

Or know that this human just happens to be operating an Oujja board?

. . .you realize the operator is the person working the ouija board right? I don't see the point in your post besides rephrasing what I just said.

[Formless]

A more important question would be, if they can't see without the operator then how can they tell who the operator actually is?

Or know that this human just happens to be operating an Oujja board?

. . .you realize the operator is the person working the ouija board right?

Eh? Could you clarify? I think you and I are talking past eachother, but I'm not sure.

What I'm thinking is, even if the spirit can somehow detect the presence of humans (presumably they can sense other souls, and thus the souls of living humans) that does not translate into being able to see the board and thus even know that any given human is intent on channeling them. What do you mean?

[General Zod]

Eh? Could you clarify? I think you and I are talking past eachother, but I'm not sure.

What I'm thinking is, even if the spirit can somehow detect the presence of humans (presumably they can sense other souls, and thus the souls of living humans) that does not translate into being able to see the board and thus even know that any given human is intent on channeling them. What do you mean?

That's exactly what I meant by my post. All you did was rephrase me.

[Formless]

Oh. I thought you meant in the sense "how can the spirit answer questions relating to the operator or their family/friends etc. when they cannot see the person's face?"

[General Zod]

Oh. I thought you meant in the sense "how can the spirit answer questions relating to the operator or their family/friends etc. when they cannot see the person's face?"

Yeah, no.

[Spoonist]

I think that you are approaching this with the wrong mindset, ie that of a sceptic. Its bound to collide with a wishwash from the cultists. Like blindfolding, its a sceptics tool not a believers tool.
Instead approach this with the mindset of being a believer that whishes to prove that it works without a doubt. That way you will approach it with tests that they can agree to.

What kind of occultists are they? It helps knowing their belief system. Are they simple new agers, neo-pagans, order of the dragon or organized wiccans for example?

Then you got to use their mindset to help with the setup.

If the spirits can lie you got to offer them something if they are truthful. Like a piece of your power/soul, which you will give willingly IF they give the same answer twice for instance.

If the spirits can see through the eyes of the participants. Then it should be easy for them to assembly a word from two stubs, one visible to each side of the board.

If the spirits are ex-humans it should be easy to ask them something personal which is hard to extrapolate on. Like historical questions to someone from another age.

Working from within their belief system will be much more effective.

[General Zod]

I think that you are approaching this with the wrong mindset, ie that of a sceptic. Its bound to collide with a wishwash from the cultists. Like blindfolding, its a sceptics tool not a believers tool.
Instead approach this with the mindset of being a believer that whishes to prove that it works without a doubt. That way you will approach it with tests that they can agree to.

What kind of occultists are they? It helps knowing their belief system. Are they simple new agers, neo-pagans, order of the dragon or organized wiccans for example?

Then you got to use their mindset to help with the setup.

If the spirits can lie you got to offer them something if they are truthful. Like a piece of your power/soul, which you will give willingly IF they give the same answer twice for instance.

If the spirits can see through the eyes of the participants. Then it should be easy for them to assembly a word from two stubs, one visible to each side of the board.

If the spirits are ex-humans it should be easy to ask them something personal which is hard to extrapolate on. Like historical questions to someone from another age.

Working from within their belief system will be much more effective.

The specific belief system doesn't really matter much as long as they can define the conditions required for the spirit to appear and list things that might "prevent" it from doing so, otherwise they can just backpedal. If they can't agree to that then it's clear they don't actually want their beliefs challenged.

[Spoonist]

The specific belief system doesn't really matter ...

If you are going to test it from within their belief system then of course it matters.

If you are going to test it simply as a sceptic with all that entails then of course it doesnt matter and of course they are going to use a caveat.

[General Zod]

The specific belief system doesn't really matter ...

If you are going to test it from within their belief system then of course it matters.

If you are going to test it simply as a sceptic with all that entails then of course it doesnt matter and of course they are going to use a caveat.

Which is any different from simply getting them to list the conditions required for the spirit to appear . . .how? If anything it just seems like an easier way for them to weasel out of it.

[Solauren]

Get a mutually agreed upon third party to be in the testing group. He will act as the spirits 'eyes'.

As long as he's 'in the circle' around the board, and in physical contact with either the board or the 'users' (i.e hand on shoulders forming the circle), he'll be 'part of things' and be able to act as the spirits eyes.

If they say it doesn't work like that, demand they prove that.

[Alyrium Denryle]

The more excuses they come up with, the more the principal of Falsification rules out their claims. At some point, what makes it impossible for you to claim that the devil is possessing them and making them write lies?

A good couple ways to test this based on the excuses given so far:

Randomly insert a skeptic in their midst but don't tell them who it is until after the test is over. Have this person think about a specific subject, then see what gets written. Presumably, the spirits don't care whether or not someone believes in this hocus pocus or what they are thinking about at the time, right?

An even better test in a similar vein, but one which you probably don't have the resources to conduct, would be to get together several groups and conduct a proper psychology experiment. Half of them do a séance (or whatever they are called) without any tampering by the experimenters, half of them have a subject or idea subconsciously suggested to them by the experimenters. Obviously its critical that none of them know whether they are in the control group or the experimental group. If the people who had an idea or subject primed to them get messages related to that subject or idea, then it would suggest an alternative hypothesis: that the messages received in a séance are the product of what's on the subject's (subconscious) mind at the time, not the channeled messages of dead spirits.

Even better, run more than two groups.

First group will use a standard board, and as is typical will be primed with a local story of a ghost or spirit that haunts the area.

Another group will use a standard board and will be primed with a completely arbitrary ghost story that is made up entirely by the study designer

This set tests for the effects of suggestion vs there being an actual spirit.

Another set using an unmodified board and the "true" ghost story protocol. Unblindfolded

The second group will have the board's orientation or spatial arrangement of letters modified, but will be otherwise identical to the first.

The third group will be identical to the first, but will be blind-folded.

The fourth group will be identical to the second, but blindfolded.

This tests for the effects of the properness of the board (in case there is something special about the arrangement of position), the effects of altered spatial orientation, and the ability to see the tiles.

If gibberish comes out in the second test you can reject the null hypothesis and suppose that the spatial arrangement has an effect and that the board really is mystical in some way. If this does not hold, but gibberish comes out in either of the blindfolded treatments then you know that they are just subconsciously guiding the little square they use for reading.