Is 40k Fluff moving towards an End Game?

[Stravo]

I've been reading the current codexes and something in the Blood Angels Codex made me think. In the Main Rule Book there is this mention of an End Time and there were little bits on the timeline like the Golden Throne has begun to fail and hiccups in the Astronomicon have sent thousands of ships into hell. Then in the Blood Angels codex the last entry in the time line for the chapter mentions the Blood Angels are currently making a last stand on Baal against the combined forces of a tendril from Leviathan and Demonic host led by Khbunga (whatever the name of the demon that fought Sanginius at the gates of the Emperor's palace) and that Dante had sent out a call for all successor chapters to come to their aid which all responded including one rogue chapter yet he still doubted they would win and then it just ended.

So is 40K fluff sort of shuffling around a concept of end times for the universe? Maybe I'm readng too much into these examples since I've only seriously began reading the fluff this year so the vets may want to let me know this has been going on since 2nd edition but what do you think?

[Stark]

The fluff has always had stuff like this in it, and events like 'xyz guys are fighting a doomed battle against the forces of tupperware and will lose ANY DAY NOW' are almost a self-caricature. Do you think they'll be doing a kind of White Wolf fluff reset or actually changing the setting?

[Stravo]

The fluff has always had stuff like this in it, and events like 'xyz guys are fighting a doomed battle against the forces of tupperware and will lose ANY DAY NOW' are almost a self-caricature. Do you think they'll be doing a kind of White Wolf fluff reset or actually changing the setting?

Funny you should mention that my thoughts immediatley went to what happend with the White Wolf line and their End Times event when they rebooted everything so I just thought it might be what they were getting at here but if it's always happened then I guess that's that.

[Srelex]

Yeah, it's pretty much always been like this. GW doesn't want to be in a position where it has to discontinue popular models and their variations.

[Stark]

Don't worry, when I started reading 40k stuff I thought it was more interesting than it actually was too. Turns out the emperor really is Jesus and Ghoulman really is healing in stasis, it's not just a culture in decay being controlled by ignorance

Oh well.

[Ghost Rider]

Sadly, it'll just keep creeping to 41K...but let's be honest.

We'll have yet another Black Crusade, in which nothing will happen. Possibly some unknown look alike chapter get eaten by Slaanesh/Khorne, and new redesigns with maybe...maybe a new race. I believe the Tau and Necron sell well enough that they are not going the way of the Squat. We might get another few Chapter Master models and new whatnots.

[Sinewmire]

Given that GW is actually a business, I can't imagine they'll do anything to sever lines of revenue, like say, wipe out the blood angels. That said, the timeline is moving and things do happen.

We'll have yet another Black Crusade, in which nothing will happen.

Eldrad Ulthran died. The surface of Cadia was melted. The Blackstone fortresses were taken forever from the hands of the Eldar. Typhon now has his own Daemon World. The Orks made massive gains.

Because the entire Imperium didn't come crashing down "nothing happened"?

[Connor MacLeod]

Don't worry, when I started reading 40k stuff I thought it was more interesting than it actually was too. Turns out the emperor really is Jesus and Ghoulman really is healing in stasis, it's not just a culture in decay being controlled by ignorance

Oh well.

Depends entirely on what you read and what you like I suppose. I like the smaller scale stuff myself. Large scale tends to be too grimdark and silly.

But then again 40K never quite got over its fantasy roots, so there ya go.

[IvanTih]

Sadly, it'll just keep creeping to 41K...but let's be honest.

We'll have yet another Black Crusade, in which nothing will happen. Possibly some unknown look alike chapter get eaten by Slaanesh/Khorne, and new redesigns with maybe...maybe a new race. I believe the Tau and Necron sell well enough that they are not going the way of the Squat. We might get another few Chapter Master models and new whatnots.

Necrons are too powerful to go the way of squats or simply they can't get exterminated(with their FTL they can just go to another galaxy).

[Ghost Rider]

We'll have yet another Black Crusade, in which nothing will happen.

Eldrad Ulthran died.

Maybe. Which is done purely for the fact they didn't want to confirm it. Oh wait, you really think they permanently killed him off?

The surface of Cadia was melted.

Same as the last other great super wars. And?

The Blackstone fortresses were taken forever from the hands of the Eldar.

And? Oh wait, you think that cannot be fluffed to find new ones or you really, really think that is the end all be all?

Typhon now has his own Daemon World.

Meaningless. Another wannabe Chaos Lord that's getting hype only to get buttfucked by whatever to make his fall look cooler.

The Orks made massive gains.

LMAO...yeah...okey doke. Come back when that shit holds after a new sourcebook or two.

Because the entire Imperium didn't come crashing down "nothing happened"?

So after five editions, numerous fucking revisions, retcons and other nonsense, you think anything that happened with the worldwide 13th BC meant shit other then to go "So...for the 14th are giving Abaddon a new planet buster or something bigger the fucker can lose?". All of it is small gains that only matter if you love the minutae and means nothing to the whole.

[Ghost Rider]

Sadly, it'll just keep creeping to 41K...but let's be honest.

We'll have yet another Black Crusade, in which nothing will happen. Possibly some unknown look alike chapter get eaten by Slaanesh/Khorne, and new redesigns with maybe...maybe a new race. I believe the Tau and Necron sell well enough that they are not going the way of the Squat. We might get another few Chapter Master models and new whatnots.

Necrons are too powerful to go the way of squats or simply they can't get exterminated(with their FTL they can just go to another galaxy).

You really have either a very very idealistic and naive viewpoint or you don't grasp that if GW wants some race to suddenly vanish, they just go "Meh...they were destr...devour...never existed as a major player."

Fluff is there to make you want to get interested in said models. In universe power is meaningless to them.

[Junghalli]

The impression I've always gotten is that 40K metaplot is largely an exercise in trying to continuously inject ever more impending doom and grimdark without ever actually delivering on the promised apocalypse, in an effort to ratchet up tension and keep the fans coming back without ever having to actually make the kind of radical changes to the universe that an endgame scenario would logically involve.

TL;DR: they like to pretend apocalyptic grimdark is imminent but really the status quo is god so it'll never actually happen.

[IvanTih]

You really have either a very very idealistic and naive viewpoint or you don't grasp that if GW wants some race to suddenly vanish, they just go "Meh...they were destr...devour...never existed as a major player."

Fluff is there to make you want to get interested in said models. In universe power is meaningless to them.

Well yeah I forgot about the power of Jervis and the company.

[Sinewmire]

Maybe. Which is done purely for the fact they didn't want to confirm it. Oh wait, you really think they permanently killed him off?

Same as the last other great super wars. And?

Nope. Cadia's been invaded on foot but nothing like having the Blackstone Fortress guns turned on it. BDZ doesn't happen often in 40k and en virus bombs dont actual melt planets.

The Blackstone fortresses were taken forever from the hands of the Eldar.

And? Oh wait, you think that cannot be fluffed to find new ones or you really, really think that is the end all be all?

LOL, FIND new blackstone fortresses? Right, and while they're at it, they find a backup Golden Throne and the Emperor's Long Lost twin brother.

Typhon now has his own Daemon World.

Meaningless. Another wannabe Chaos Lord that's getting hype only to get buttfucked by whatever to make his fall look cooler.

Like... when? When has a Dark Lord fallen since the Horus heresy? As a result of this Typhon and his ship, the Terminus Est, get to be in the Horus Heresy books.

LMAO...yeah...okey doke. Come back when that shit holds after a new sourcebook or two.

Well, I can't answer that until new sourcebooks are released, can I?

Because the entire Imperium didn't come crashing down "nothing happened"?

So after five editions, numerous fucking revisions, retcons and other nonsense, you think anything that happened with the worldwide 13th BC meant shit other then to go "So...for the 14th are giving Abaddon a new planet buster or something bigger the fucker can lose?". All of it is small gains that only matter if you love the minutae and means nothing to the whole.

What would you want to see happened? You complain that in a campaign based around Cadia only Cadia was affected, that the narrow margin of victory hasn't translated to a crushing defeat for any side. What do you expect, a new codex, tapdancing monkeys from the Eye of Terror?

The Blackstone fortresses are almost certainly the Talismans of Vaul, designed to kill the C'tan. Eldrad's death have proven that they are now far beyond the reach of the Eldar, making the Necrons that little bit more dangerous and the universe that little bit more fucked. Endgame progressed.

We were promised the result for the Imperium would govern important things in the Imperial Faith. Biggest news in the new rulebook after 13th BC is that the Golden Throne is failing. Endgame progressed.

[Sinewmire]

The impression I've always gotten is that 40K metaplot is largely an exercise in trying to continuously inject ever more impending doom and grimdark without ever actually delivering on the promised apocalypse, in an effort to ratchet up tension and keep the fans coming back without ever having to actually make the kind of radical changes to the universe that an endgame scenario would logically involve.

Couldn't agree more.

My answer to any 40k question is "would it be better or worse for humanity?" If it makes it worse, then that is probably the case.

[Junghalli]

Endgame progressed.

We were promised the result for the Imperium would govern important things in the Imperial Faith. Biggest news in the new rulebook after 13th BC is that the Golden Throne is failing. Endgame progressed.

I get the strong impression the endgame in 40K is a little like moving at c for a massive object.

You can get arbitrarily close to it but it will never actually be reached.

[Stark]

You'd think they'd just pull Mr 'healing in a stasis field' into a medical unit and help the process along. Poor old GW.

[Srelex]

LOL, FIND new blackstone fortresses? Right, and while they're at it, they find a backup Golden Throne and the Emperor's Long Lost twin brother.

I actually wouldn't put it past GW to pull such stuff in the future if they start running out of ideas.

[Connor MacLeod]

They can't decide whether he's still healing or he's dying and removing him from stasis would kill him.

Then again, they also can't quite decide where Leman Russ went and Why, either.

[Gunhead]

LOL, FIND new blackstone fortresses? Right, and while they're at it, they find a backup Golden Throne and the Emperor's Long Lost twin brother.

I actually wouldn't put it past GW to pull such stuff in the future if they start running out of ideas.

Ummm Start? Well if you count bad ones as ideas then I think they'll come up with something even more stupid than undead space egyptian machine terminator things from the past.


-Gunhead

[Commander 598]

You'd think they'd just pull Mr 'healing in a stasis field' into a medical unit and help the process along. Poor old GW.

Turn him into a Dread.

[Connor MacLeod]

LOL, FIND new blackstone fortresses? Right, and while they're at it, they find a backup Golden Throne and the Emperor's Long Lost twin brother.

I actually wouldn't put it past GW to pull such stuff in the future if they start running out of ideas.

I doubt they're actually going to do much "new" stuff. Since 4th edition or so they've mostly been "status quo" 3rd seemed to be a downslide but they were still refining what had been "set down" in 2nd edition. 5th has been "filling in the bakcstory and resurrecting some old stuff to fill it out but still maintaining the status quo." About the only time new stuff enters in is when they borrow something from the Black Library division (or sometimes Forge World, although that bit is debatalbe.) I'd say the FFG stuff is also generally more innovative than the main line.

I expect in the future we'd see incremental changes and mostly deriving from the other branches (EG stuff written by Abnett, McNeill, or popping up in some video game, or whatever cropping into the next edition canon, but that's it.)

That said, if one had imagination they could pull out some new blackstone like super weapon if they wanted. God knows that its been shown before the Eldar have lots of leftover uberweapons hidden away, lying around, or just plain lost. Hell who knows how much might be stashed away in the webway for all we know. Or in some planet. Or buried in a star. Or whatnot. Its not like the Necrons don't start pulling out new shit from beneath planets after all.

[Stark]

They can't decide whether he's still healing or he's dying and removing him from stasis would kill him.

Then again, they also can't quite decide where Leman Russ went and Why, either.

If he's healing in stasis you obviously don't need to turn it off to perform surgery.

It's just a shame that the whole setting is just amateurish brinksmanship, where they only thing they can think to do is just increase the stakes without ever going anywhere with anything because the stakes are too high and the setting would die.

If they'd had a clue to start with they wouldn't have painted themselves into a 40-foot tall jesus-shaped corner.

[Connor MacLeod]

If he's healing in stasis you obviously don't need to turn it off to perform surgery.

That assumes they know how to heal a Primarch. They've long implied that only the Emperor is ccapable of understanding ow the Primarchs were made, much less how to re-do it. hell they can't even figure out the gene-seed.

It's just a shame that the whole setting is just amateurish brinksmanship, where they only thing they can think to do is just increase the stakes without ever going anywhere with anything because the stakes are too high and the setting would die.

Well actually given the timing of a number of the stories and such its been implied on more than one occasion the Imperium has lasted at least partway into the 42nd millenium without any new or drastic changes.

But as far as the game goes people I doubt pay much attention to the fluff anyhow, they pay attention to the game rules, so doing anything to change or fix it is pretty pointless (its not like a 40K wargame has an actual story in it after all )

I'm also not sure I want them to actualyl dare trying to do a reboot. I can already dread what is going to happen to Star Wars once Lucas dies and someone "reboots" it (How can STar Wars be made into more of a big dumb action movie? OH YEAH HAVE ANAKIN SKYDIVE ON A REPULSOR SURFBOARD WHILE RUSHING TO SAVE PALAPTINE FROM A SKYDIVING GRIEVOUS) or something.

If they'd had a clue to start with they wouldn't have painted themselves into a 40-foot tall jesus-shaped corner.

I dont think they painted themselves into a corner simply as they have no economic (or other) incentive to actually move the universe forward.

[Simon_Jester]

You'd think they'd just pull Mr 'healing in a stasis field' into a medical unit and help the process along. Poor old GW.

Turn him into a Dread.

That would work great normally, but he was poisoned. If they yank him out to put him in a dreadnought, he might well die of the poison for all they know. They can't cure the poison; that's why they didn't just shoot him full of antidote back when he got wounded. So they did the equivalent of sticking him in cryo-suspension, only without the whole "maybe we will find a way to cure him in the future" thing, just because they didn't want the guy to die.

It's useless as a way to allow Guilliman to become a military asset of the Imperium again, but that wasn't the point; the point was that his Marine chapter wasn't going to let the guy who'd just saved the galaxy and who was pretty much the granddaddy of all Space Marines die on their watch, even if they couldn't patch him up.