Quantum Conqueror

[RTM]

Actually, only direct descendants can be possessed/melded with the QC after the first leader of that nation/tribe. And I doubt someone would allow the son or daughter of a psycho become the president. That is if they're known to the public and the like. Still, I get what you're saying PeZook.

Though after that the QC could just possess another country's leader, but what would be the point, half the world is in shambles, either anarchy will follow or it'll be a complete [CENSORED] to recover.

[PeZook]

Actually, only direct descendants can be possessed/melded with the QC after the first leader of that nation/tribe. And I doubt someone would allow the son or daughter of a psycho become the president.

Bah, THE CURSE OF THE WHITE HOUSE is way cooler

[RTM]

Until everyone decides just to firebomb the place and leave the country.

[Chaotic Neutral]

No, actually you'll kill lots of people for questionable gain and everybody would hate you and try to kill as many Americans as they could after seeing their homelands eradicated for the terrible offence of "Not kowtowing to American desires".

Fortunately I have the worlds most powerful military and the only nuclear arsenal to stop just that.

That's assuming they wouldn't just make a beeline for their own nukes in order to neuter your dominance. What, you're going to pre-emptively wipe out the USSR at the first slight? What about Britain, Germany, France, Iran, China? Australia? There's plenty of countries that can make nukes ; Hell, communist Poland had a nuclear weapons program.

I will have anti-nuke systems far before and more advanced than any of them. Besides, the first country developing their own nukes get nuked themselves. Even what they can make will likely not be able to hit my country effectively, and their only other targets would be the countries I have bases in. (All of them)

At least half (give or take) of the population would believe that. The rest would start protesting, rioting and god knows what else. And if you take what PeZook said into account, then the number of your supporters would get halved or more. In fact, even the military would probably quit/revolt/rebel. And after that the only supporters you would have would be the blindingly (in my opinion at least) fanatical and then it's only a matter of time after you have to either get off the ruling seat or instigate a regime change into something authoritarian or worse.

Regime change is definitely possible. As for the protesters, a combination of massive numbers of new technologies, a vibrant economy, and machine gun fire should keep them in line.

The only thing to worry about is a military revolt.

Then, the whole surviving world nations would probably decide to gang up on you, or not if you still have enough nukes after the previous events and also still be able to control the country after the rebellion of at least half of your population and military.

Again, I have nukes pointed at them, and any coup stupid enough to use nukes against itself will never get off of the ground.

Until everyone decides just to firebomb the place and leave the country.

They die of radiation poisoning first.

[Chaotic Neutral]

Hmmm, this is reminding me of Fallout and some other things. Definitely good material for a fictional story, like PeZook said.

If you write something, tell me and I'll tell you how the madman responds.

[PeZook]

Fortunately I have the worlds most powerful military and the only nuclear arsenal to stop just that.

The world's most powerful military failed to stop 9/11 ; Your strategy will impoverish and give a massive grudge to a staggering amount of people. Expect waves of terrorism, possibly state-sponsored terrorism using WMDs.

I will have anti-nuke systems far before and more advanced than any of them. Besides, the first country developing their own nukes get nuked themselves. Even what they can make will likely not be able to hit my country effectively, and their only other targets would be the countries I have bases in. (All of them)

They will simply need to hit your will to fight ; You will have ABM, but that's not the only way to deliver nukes to your targets. Destroy even a single American city, and your strategy will fall apart, since it requires your own people to feel safe from attack. Also, there are more WMDs than nukes: you can easily hide a bioweapon research program, for example, and deliver them using really simply measures, like running a ship aground in New York and opening fire with a simple rocket artillery system aboard. If you start nuking people for slight offenses, somebody will do just that, if only to spite you.

Not to mention: Americans didn't support Vietnam ; What makes you think they will automatically support murdering millions in the name of Mom, God and Apple Pie? Because they earn good money (somehow, without exports to eat up your industrial production)?

Regime change is definitely possible.

Not in the way necessary to prevent social unrest ; America is pretty authoritarian right now, but it's also full of anti-government types whose organizations would swell with fresh numbers.

As for the protesters, a combination of massive numbers of new technologies, a vibrant economy, and machine gun fire should keep them in line.

Machinegunning protesters in a country full of guns, whose population has an obstinately independent mindset is a good way to trigger open revolt.

Again, I have nukes pointed at them, and any coup stupid enough to use nukes against itself will never get off of the ground.

Why would the coup need to use nukes? They'd just arrest and execute "you".

They die of radiation poisoning first.

Protesters firebombing the white house die of radiation poisoning? How?

[Chaotic Neutral]

The world's most powerful military failed to stop 9/11 ; Your strategy will impoverish and give a massive grudge to a staggering amount of people. Expect waves of terrorism, possibly state-sponsored terrorism using WMDs.

9/11 level terrorism? That's all I need to worry about, a few thousand dead every 5 - 10 years? That's nothing. And WMDs would never be used against me due to their creation facilities being DESTROYED.

They will simply need to hit your will to fight ; You will have ABM, but that's not the only way to deliver nukes to your targets. Destroy even a single American city, and your strategy will fall apart, since it requires your own people to feel safe from attack. Also, there are more WMDs than nukes: you can easily hide a bioweapon research program, for example, and deliver them using really simply measures, like running a ship aground in New York and opening fire with a simple rocket artillery system aboard. If you start nuking people for slight offenses, somebody will do just that, if only to spite you.

There are different size nukes for different sized offenses, bioweapons would probably require destruction of a country depending on its effectiveness.

Not to mention: Americans didn't support Vietnam ; What makes you think they will automatically support murdering millions in the name of Mom, God and Apple Pie? Because they earn good money (somehow, without exports to eat up your industrial production)?

Vietnam was very different than Pre-WWII. As for exports, I will come up with something (The British banned the creation of salt in India and sold their own, why not something like that, but on a massive scale with certain industries?)

Not in the way necessary to prevent social unrest ; America is pretty authoritarian right now, but it's also full of anti-government types whose organizations would swell with fresh numbers.

But we must fight the foreign threat, comrade! (I'll find someone to fight, and make an excuse for why we can't kill them.)

Machinegunning protesters in a country full of guns, whose population has an obstinately independent mindset is a good way to trigger open revolt.

Ah, but it was the protesters that fired first

Why would the coup need to use nukes? They'd just arrest and execute "you".

Ah, I read that wrong sorry.

Protesters firebombing the white house die of radiation poisoning? How?

I though you meant and attack by another country. Lead poisoning then. The damn Communists/Socialists/Jews/Athiests tried to kill the president!

[PeZook]

9/11 level terrorism? That's all I need to worry about, a few thousand dead every 5 - 10 years? That's nothing. And WMDs would never be used against me due to their creation facilities being DESTROYED.

It created a massive scar in the collective consciousness and made people live in fear. That's the point: you can only maintain dominance-via-genocide as long as you can't be attacked. The moment you can, your people stop feeling safe and start questioning your strategy of antagonizing everybody.

And WMDs will be used. A random Japanese sect managed to make Sarin gas ; A nation-state could arrange proper secrecy for, say, bioweapon manufacture.

There are different size nukes for different sized offenses, bioweapons would probably require destruction of a country depending on its effectiveness.

What will you have gained? America will be struck with bioweapons eventually, because everyone will despise you and think nothing of murdering your citizens and spend their days thinking of ways to do that. So your brilliant strategy will gain a ruined world, with most of it ravaged by rampant nuclear destruction, and America itself by horrible pathogens.

I'm kind of missing the part where the world you're creating is somehow better, rather than a postapocalyptic dystopia.

Vietnam was very different than Pre-WWII. As for exports, I will come up with something (The British banned the creation of salt in India and sold their own, why not something like that, but on a massive scale with certain industries?)

Do you have any reason to believe your people will keep accepting mass murder and genocide? Why won't attitudes change over decades, especially if we accept your idea America will be magically prosperous? Prosperous people start thinking.

But we must fight the foreign threat, comrade! (I'll find someone to fight, and make an excuse for why we can't kill them.)

Yeah, sure. You will have plenty of reasons, what with millions of Americans dying from custom-made smallpox, delivered overnight from Russia with best wishes.

Ah, but it was the protesters that fired first

I'm sure the people will see it that way, too.

I though you meant and attack by another country. Lead poisoning then. The damn Communists/Socialists/Jews/Athiests tried to kill the president!

No, we meant when people start thinking the white house to be cursed because newly elected presidents keep turning into bloodthirsty psychos

[Chaotic Neutral]

It created a massive scar in the collective consciousness and made people live in fear. That's the point: you can only maintain dominance-via-genocide as long as you can't be attacked. The moment you can, your people stop feeling safe and start questioning your strategy of antagonizing everybody.

I don't know when I said my country is invulnerable to attacks, so that goes out the window. The question remaining, is how much propaganda would it take to make people stop being a bunch of pussies?

And WMDs will be used. A random Japanese sect managed to make Sarin gas ; A nation-state could arrange proper secrecy for, say, bioweapon manufacture.

What will you have gained? America will be struck with bioweapons eventually, because everyone will despise you and think nothing of murdering your citizens and spend their days thinking of ways to do that. So your brilliant strategy will gain a ruined world, with most of it ravaged by rampant nuclear destruction, and America itself by horrible pathogens.

Hey, remember all those times you were reading about the great bio-wars a few decades ago? No? Me neither.

Do you have any reason to believe your people will keep accepting mass murder and genocide? Why won't attitudes change over decades, especially if we accept your idea America will be magically prosperous? Prosperous people start thinking.

These people haven't even accepted that the blacks next door are equal yet, why would they care about terrorists attacking military bases in foreign countries?

Yeah, sure. You will have plenty of reasons, what with millions of Americans dying from custom-made smallpox, delivered overnight from Russia with best wishes.

Yeah, sure I will.

I'm sure the people will see it that way, too.

Where else did all of those weapons come from?

[PeZook]

I don't know when I said my country is invulnerable to attacks, so that goes out the window. The question remaining, is how much propaganda would it take to make people stop being a bunch of pussies?

A few generations of social engineering ought to do it.

Hey, remember all those times you were reading about the great bio-wars a few decades ago? No? Me neither.

You know how most of the world isn't insane or slowly dying from radiatoin poisoning after having millions of their people killed? Russia has stockpiles of smallpox, the marburg virus and anthrax. Any nation state could make those in complete secret ; A single doctor managed to secretly produce anthrax in his home. You guys are just lucky he sucked at devising a good delivery mechanism.

You're saying that because these weapons haven't been used, they don't exist ; There was no nuclear war, either. Does it mean nukes don't exist?

These people haven't even accepted that the blacks next door are equal yet, why would they care about terrorists attacking military bases in foreign countries?

Why because racism is comparable to approving wanton slaughter of millions!

Where else did all of those weapons come from?

There's dead people in the street. The Boston Massacre happened in part because the colonists were provoking the redcoats to fire ; It didn't really stop people from getting fucking angry.

[RTM]

So let's say, after everything Chaotic has done, he managed to stay in control, calm down the population and the military, intercept a metric ton of domestic and international terrorists and so on. And from there it's an uphill struggle against economic collapse, glowing clouds of radiation or dust, probable ice-age or global warming, annexation efforts and god knows what else.



Personally, I would take it slow and rewrite history from the beginning. I would uplift every tribe while making sure their cultures and such would be almost completely diametrically opposing, making sure that they separate religion and matters of the state completely, be as xenophobic as possible and make sure their battles would always be for resources and the like, never for anything else and never use anything like WMD's or anything similar unless the other side uses them. Then I'd fast-forward a century or so and check up on them, making sure they wouldn't deviate and from that point it's rinse & repeat. I wonder how would the world by 2000...

[PeZook]

Frankly, I doubt anybody would be able to "uplift" a stone-age tribe much. What are you going to teach them? And more importantly, how are you going to make them apply that knowledge, seeing as the tribes will be really tiny?

It could be more worthwhile to do something like preventing the destruction of the Library Of Alexandria, which you could do with a single edict after posessing one person ; Better yet, have the contents copied and distributed as widely as possible, allow people to access education, etc.

That could be done with many a powerful ruler ; The consequences could be staggering if just one powerful country pushes towards free and common education, even without any particular technological innovations. You could possibly jump-start the Enlightement that way, if you managed to navigate the fundamentalist environment of the times.

Another good point could be to jump into the Apollo era and attempt to preserve the push for space exploration from getting murdered, as well as trying to turn America towards a more environmentally friendly future. These would require significant political skill on the part of the Conqueror, though, since you'd be working as a democratic President. That, or some creative people-jumping to manufacture, say, another fuel crisis.

But that's hard, I guess it's easier to murder millions with nuclear weapons and build an empire on fear and hate.

[RTM]

But that's hard, I guess it's easier to murder millions with nuclear weapons and build an empire on fear and hate.

That would be very hard for me to do, or at least until the meldings snap me and turn me into a cold 'Complete Monster' or something.

Frankly, I doubt anybody would be able to "uplift" a stone-age tribe much. What are you going to teach them? And more importantly, how are you going to make them apply that knowledge, seeing as the tribes will be really tiny?

You've got a point there, but the reason I chose the tribes was that they were sort of, the lowest starting point (or at least I think so) for the QC to begin from. As for uplifting, it would probably take several leaders just to have somekind of effect and make them learn and apply knowledge and at that point uplifting every tribe is just a hassle and it's just easier to stick with the tribes that respond the most to the "uplift" effort...

[Chaotic Neutral]

But that's hard, I guess it's easier to murder millions with nuclear weapons and build an empire on fear and hate.

This will easily be made up for by all of the starving Third-Worlders(Bye Africa!) that are never born.


PS. I love time travel.

[PeZook]

You've got a point there, but the reason I chose the tribes was that they were sort of, the lowest starting point (or at least I think so) for the QC to begin from. As for uplifting, it would probably take several leaders just to have somekind of effect and make them learn and apply knowledge and at that point uplifting every tribe is just a hassle and it's just easier to stick with the tribes that respond the most to the "uplift" effort...

I guess you could teach them hygiene, how to start fires and maybe writing, and then fast-forward. Since I doubt you could tell them much else: do you know how to make a bow?

Agriculture would probably be a waste ; The first tribes were tiny, and better off as hunter-gatherers. It's only as populations increased and semi-settled that agriculture became necessary for anything.

This will easily be made up for by all of the starving Third-Worlders(Bye Africa!) that are never born.


PS. I love time travel.

You'll get lots of other starving people around the world.

[RTM]

I guess you could teach them hygiene, how to start fires and maybe writing, and then fast-forward.

Aside from checking on them every couple of centuries or when something happens to them that manages to grab my attention, by how many years, decades or centuries? When would be the earliest time period during which the effort to uplift them becomes easier?

Since I doubt you could tell them much else: do you know how to make a bow?

Yes I do, sort of...

This will easily be made up for by all of the starving Third-Worlders(Bye Africa!) that are never born.


PS. I love time travel.

You'll get lots of other starving people around the world.

And the irradiated, mutants, bandits, rouge military and so on.

[PeZook]

Aside from checking on them every couple of centuries or when something happens to them that manages to grab my attention, by how many years, decades or centuries? When would be the earliest time period during which the effort to uplift them becomes easier?

Depends on the time period you get thrown into ; I suppose the neolithic revolution would be the first time when you could try doing something more advanced, like metalworking. But...how much do you really know about metalworking? Or agriculture?

For myself, the Mediterrenean around 500 B.C. would be the earliest point to start, unless I get a library of books to take with me. That's when I could draw on existing infrastructure and know-how to deliver some actual technological improvements without needing to redevelop everything from scratch.

It's too bad you can only possess leaders, though: it would be good to possess some rich yet not very important guy, spend his life working out all the basics, write them down, put them in a library, then possess an emperor and send a flunky to retrieve those writings and make use of them

I wonder how much of a cascade you could do with that ; Possessing important people and having them build infrastructure, impose education, develop the sciences, etc.

When some prominent guy arises and tries to counter your works with ideology, or raises and army to depose your avatar, etc - possess him too and make him fall off a cliff

Yes I do, sort of...

I suppose you could experiment a bit with the materials and stuff, unless the locals would think you got possessed by a demon and cast you out (heh )

And the irradiated, mutants, bandits, rouge military and so on.

Heh...a bunch of ill-trained third world wannabes managed to pull off 9/11 ; I wonder what trained, hateful Spetznaz saboteurs could do?

[RTM]

Heh...a bunch of ill-trained third world wannabes managed to pull off 9/11 ; I wonder what trained, hateful Spetznaz saboteurs could do?

I really don't want to even consider just how much casualties and collateral damage even one of their operations could do.

I suppose you could experiment a bit with the materials and stuff, unless the locals would think you got possessed by a demon and cast you out (heh )

That is a distinct possibility...

It's too bad you can only possess leaders, though: it would be good to possess some rich yet not very important guy, spend his life working out all the basics, write them down, put them in a library, then possess an emperor and send a flunky to retrieve those writings and make use of them

But then most people would just fast forward to possess scientists and the like, philosophers and the like. After that it's either conquering the world through technology and such or simply initiating a technological singularity.

[Chaotic Neutral]

You'll get lots of other starving people around the world.

Yes, but billions of them either don't exist or die in a nuclear fireball, not having children.

[RTM]

Yes, but billions of them either don't exist or die in a nuclear fireball, not having children.

I' am confused here, you're saying that like it's a good thing...

[PeZook]

If I murder a poor person it's okay, since he won't have children who would likely become criminals or a drain on public resources.

[Star Wars 888]

@Chaotic Neutral:

Would you seriously do that? At the risk of sounding rude, do you have any morals? At all?

[Chaotic Neutral]

Would you seriously do that? At the risk of sounding rude, do you have any morals? At all?

Kill one person with a shitty life, and stop generations of people from having a shitty life. Besides, since we are using time travel, I can curb the population by other methods too.

The lower drain on resources, leaving me with more, is nice too.

[Star Wars 888]

Would you seriously do that? At the risk of sounding rude, do you have any morals? At all?

Kill one person with a shitty life, and stop generations of people from having a shitty life. Besides, since we are using time travel, I can curb the population by other methods too.

The lower drain on resources, leaving me with more, is nice too.

How is nuking civilians supposed to stop generations of people from having a shitty life?

Also, maybe I didn't read this thread well enough, but how do you plan to get this uber advanced tech by WW2 era?

[Chaotic Neutral]

Also, maybe I didn't read this thread well enough, but how do you plan to get this uber advanced tech by WW2 era?

How do I get nuclear weapons by WWII? Let me think about that....