China launches Moon mission

[Temujin]

Just saw this on the news. It's nice to see them continue to push forward. I kind of hope they can shame the US into getting it's shit together; though I doubt it will amount to anything.

China launches Moon mission

By Katia Moskvitch
Science reporter, BBC News
1 October 2010 Last updated at 11:22 ET

The latest launch, to test key technologies and gather data, is China's second lunar mission

A Chinese rocket carrying a probe destined for the Moon has blasted into space.

A Long March 3C rocket with the Chang'e-2 probe took off from Xichang launch centre at about 1100 GMT.

The rocket will shoot the craft into the trans-lunar orbit, after which the satellite is expected to reach the Moon in about five days.

Chang'e-2 will be used to test key technologies and collect data for future landings.

China says it will send a rover on its next mission, and it also has ambitions to put humans on the surface of the lunar body at some future date.

The Xinhua News Agency said Chang'e-2 would circle just 15km (nine miles) above the rocky terrain in order to take photographs of possible landing locations.

It is China's second lunar probe - the first was launched in 2007. The craft stayed in space for 16 months before being intentionally crashed on to the Moon's surface.

China launched its first manned flight into low-Earth orbit in 2003; and two more followed, with the most recent one in 2008.

So far, only three countries have managed to independently send humans into space: China, Russia and the US.

In 2008, a Chinese astronaut, fighter pilot Zhai Zhigang, performed a spacewalk - the first in his country's history.

He stayed outside the Shenzhou-7 capsule for 15 minutes; the exercise was seen as key to China's ambition to build an orbiting station in the near future.

[CaptainChewbacca]

Sadly, I don't think this will wake up the government and get some funding heading NASA's way.

[Chaotic Neutral]

Sadly, I don't think this will wake up the government and get some funding heading NASA's way.

Why should it? The USA doesn't have a monopoly on space.

[Broomstick]

Personally, I would like to see private and/or public industry find a way to profit off space, because that's the only way we're really going to get out there in a meaningful way.

The more the merrier, I say. Let everyone who wants to work on going into space.

[Chaotic Neutral]

Personally, I would like to see private and/or public industry find a way to profit off space, because that's the only way we're really going to get out there in a meaningful way.

I would like Police and fire services to be profitable, that doesn't mean it is ever going to happen.

[TithonusSyndrome]

Lookout Jade Rabbit - your secrets will belong to all of China soon!

In all seriousness, this... is great, but obviously doesn't have the impact of a manned mission, which is still a few decades off by the Chinese Space Agency's watch. How does one go about divvying up the Moon, anyways, with all these EU and Indian and Japanese missions in the works? Like Antarctica?

[Chaotic Neutral]

In all seriousness, this... is great, but obviously doesn't have the impact of a manned mission, which is still a few decades off by the Chinese Space Agency's watch. How does one go about divvying up the Moon, anyways, with all these EU and Indian and Japanese missions in the works? Like Antarctica?

Is it that China doesn't want to yet, or they can't? I can't imagine modern day China having less technology that the US in the 60s.

[RedImperator]

It's not just the technology. You need infrastructure and experience, too, neither of which the PRC has yet.

[Temujin]

Personally, I would like to see private and/or public industry find a way to profit off space, because that's the only way we're really going to get out there in a meaningful way.

The more the merrier, I say. Let everyone who wants to work on going into space.

That came up in this thread

I find myself boggled that American liberals would support the privatization of space travel, without any real competition/funding for the government.

They don't do it out of any real love for space. Space travel and exploration in the United States is largely a function of the military-defense industrial complex (as the rockets, rocket motors, vehicles, and rad-hard electronics are produced by/designed by/designed for/had their origins in the defense sector.) And we all know just how much love progressive/liberal politicians hold for the military-defense industrial complex . . . they tend to see American space travel as yet another taxpayer handout to defense that could be much better spent on social interests.

This is why Republicans are much more willing to, at least, pay lip service to the American space program than the Democrats are . . . and why the Democrats want to "privatize" space by throwing lots of money at newcomers like SpaceX.

...and while I think GrandMasterTerwynn has a good point, I also think the reason a lot of scientists and people like us would like to see private industry involved is we've just given up on the government every getting involved again to the degree we saw during Apollo. Every President since has unvailed plans for a revamped space program to some degree, yet every plan ended up being mostly talk and little actual action for various reasons.

Honestly, if we're going to be stuck with the military industrial complex, best give the bulk of it something more constructive to do and create jobs and stimulate the economy.

[Broomstick]

I don't give a flying fuck if police, fire, or medical emergency services turn a profit or lose money - their utility is such that people don't normally question spending money on them, and they ARE damn useful.

Problem is that right now most people don't see a point to going into space. What good does it do them? Paying for the fire brigade? That might prevent your house from burning down. Pay for the police? They are supposed to protect you from criminals. Pay for space... why? What do they get, even hypothetically, from space?

People need to see space as useful, as profitable, as giving them something. Otherwise they don't want to fund it. Seriously, if there isn't some use for going into space, why bother?

Personally, I derive enough enjoyment from exploration to be willing to fund a space program. However, I am a minority. If way could be found to make money from some space endeavor, THEN people will suddenly be eager to go up there.

Why do you think the first commercial venture into space by private industry in the US is tourist flights? Because it's a way to make some money off the wealthy who want bragging rights, that's why. If someone found gold or petroleum (or some other Phlebotinum) private industrial powerhouses would be falling all over themselves trying to get reliable launch capability.

What prompted Europeans to explore the world? Spices. Gold. Land. You know, useful stuff. You think that doesn't apply to space? Of course it does. In fact, we already have several thriving space industries right now in private hands, communications being arguably the largest. Then there are weather satellites. And don't forget GPS navigation - yes, the GPS satellites are owned, operated, and launched by the US military but they have spawned a lot of private companies cheerfully churning out devices that use the GPS signals for various purposes, which are found everywhere from commercial airplanes to cellphones. And you know how ubiquitous cell phones are. People use GPS, they like their weather reports somewhat accurate, and lord knows they LOVE their TV. So no one questions that satellites are useful. In fact, EVERYONE wants to maintain launch capability for satellites.

But what use is going to the Moon? Seriously? To the average mope.

Ah, but if a Moon colony or Moon based provided something that Joe Pubic used... THAT would be a different matter! If siphoning off the lakes of Titan (hydrocarbons, ya know?) resulted in vehicle fuel prices dropping to a tenth of what they currently are hell yes Joe Public would fund the space program. (Yes, that IS a wild-ass improbable fantasy provided solely for illustrative purposes, thank you very much).

So... if you want space travel and space colonies and so on find a way to profit from going out there.

[Temujin]

I remember arguing with my contemporaries in elementary school about the benefits the Apollo program had on their lives. Needless to say it went over like a Lead Zeppelin. Directly or indirectly the benefits are immense as you and I both know, the only problem is the upfront costs are also quite immense, though not insurmountable. If only we had something to draw in the support of those mega-corporations with more money than Zeus.

[Samuel]

If someone found gold or petroleum (or some other Phlebotinum) private industrial powerhouses would be falling all over themselves trying to get reliable launch capability.

I don't think spaceflight is that cheap. Isn't oil only $100 a barrel? Resource extraction probably isn't competitive to earth based systems (which have the advantage that we are alot more familiar with them and they have much lower start up costs), recycling old materials or finding substitutes. Someone correct me, but it costs thousands of dollars per pound of payload and since the valuable materials tend to be rarer and require significantly more pounds of equipment to extract them than you recieve in output you aren't going to make a profit by mining.

Then there are weather satellites. And don't forget GPS navigation - yes, the GPS satellites are owned, operated, and launched by the US military but they have spawned a lot of private companies cheerfully churning out devices that use the GPS signals for various purposes, which are found everywhere from commercial airplanes to cellphones.

So basically there is no way to profit from manned space flight. Only tourism which is basically a fancy way to piss away money and not a great idea considering how hazardous space travel is.

[ShadowDragon8685]

All of which is short-sighted.

If you don't go somewhere, you won't know if there's money to be made there.

Imagine if monarchy of Spain had been unwilling to fund Christopher Columbus' voyage across the ocean? "No money in it," they might have said. "It would cost too much."

If you don't fund exploration, you don't find anything worth exploiting. Explore, expand, exploit. You can't just piss and moan about not being in step 3 when you haven't done steps 1 and 2 yet. (And hopefully we'll never have to move on to step 4.)

[Tanasinn]

I doubt this will rustle Americans into interest in space again, to be honest. The prevailing sentiment is "been there, done that, stuck a flag in it."

[Marcus Aurelius]

Imagine if monarchy of Spain had been unwilling to fund Christopher Columbus' voyage across the ocean? "No money in it," they might have said. "It would cost too much."

In fact, everybody else had done just that. Columbus was a able to sweet talk the Spanish crown into believing that he could find a shorter sea route to India than the very long and dangerous journey around Africa. If he could do that, there would be immediate trade profits to be made. With manned space exploration there are no such immediate profit opportunities available. Like Samuel wrote, there are no resources expensive enough to be worth off-world exploration, in fact not even close to it. There are also no trade opportunities is space that we know of. So yes, tourism is pretty much the only profit you can expect from manned space flight, and that is pretty much limited to LEO, because going to the Moon or something to that effect would be too expensive even for the great majority of billionaires.

[K. A. Pital]

I doubt this will rustle Americans into interest in space again, to be honest. The prevailing sentiment is "been there, done that, stuck a flag in it."

That's really stupid. For a nation whose cities hardly had an automobile in the streets circa 1980, China made a long way. It certainly reached space faster than the USA at comparable development levels.

[dragon]

Plus look at how many fields have benefited directly and indirectly from the space program. You have the obvious such as weather forecasting thanks to satellites plus all the other stuff satellites do for us. Medicals, computers just about any field you can think of has benefited from space if some way might be small but then again might be big.

[Patrick Degan]

I doubt this will rustle Americans into interest in space again, to be honest. The prevailing sentiment is "been there, done that, stuck a flag in it."

And they're as likely to see the Chinese eventually giving up on the moon for the same reasons we did: nothing to be had there that's worth sending people up for.

[TheBetaMachine]

There's Helium-3.

[Jaepheth]

What I will personally find interesting is if moon landing deniers claim China is faking it too.

If they (the deniers) believe China's missions are real; then when Chinese astronauts send images of the original American landing site will they suddenly switch positions and say the Chinese must be part of the conspiracy, or accept that America really did go to the moon?

[Temujin]

And on the subject of private industry and space:

Virgin Galactic slows satellite launcher plans

By Rob Coppinger
Spaceflight writer
2 October 2010 Last updated at 07:30 ET

Virgin Galactic's satellite launching rocket LauncherOne that once attracted $110m in investment is now in doubt.

LauncherOne's manager has departed and the space tourism company's chief executive is talking only about future possibilities for the rocket.

The rocket would take satellites weighing up to 200kg (440lbs) into low-Earth orbit for $1-2m.

LauncherOne was to be air-launched from Virgin Galactic's WhiteKnightTwo aircraft.

This is the same plane that will also launch Sir Richard Branson's tourist carrying SpaceShipTwo spacecraft.

In July 2009, Abu Dhabi-based Aabar Investment offered Virgin Galactic $110m for LauncherOne development, if further studies proved the business case.

Later that year, Sir Richard's Galactic team took on Adam Baker to be its general manager for small satellite launch and to conduct those studies.

Dr Baker had previously worked for Surrey Satellite Technology Limited, the British small spacecraft manufacturer.

The Guildford-based company had been looking to find cheaper and more timely access to space for its clients and had spoken to Virgin Galactic about working on the LauncherOne project in 2008 and early 2009.

But SSTL backed out after attempts to raise some feasibility funding from the then British National Space Centre (now the UK Space Agency) did not succeed.

Soon after Dr Baker's employment started at Galactic, the company's President Will Whitehorn told an October 2009 conference that LauncherOne could start operating a year after the sub-orbital tourism business was up and running.

However, Dr Baker left Virgin Galactic last month and there is no clear explanation from the company as to why the project is not set to follow Mr Whitehorn's timetable.

"It's potentially an exciting area. Galactic as a whole may at some point in the future continue to work beyond looking at future projects," Virgin Galactic's CEO George Whitesides told the BBC. "It's an area we continue to think about."

He rejected the suggestion that the US government's technology export laws had in anyway contributed to the project's lack of progress.

In the meantime, the company continues to test its carrier aircraft ("Eve") and its spacecraft.

Sir Richard told a business conference in Kuala Lumpur last week that Galactic was on track to offer its short hops above the atmosphere for paying passengers within 18 months.

The fares to board the spacecraft SpaceShipTwo ("Enterprise") start at $200,000. The company has already taken deposits from more than 300 hopeful passengers.

[mr friendly guy]

To be fair to the "been there done that" crowd, the Chinese do plan to explore different parts of the moon.

http://news.xinhuanet.com/english2010/c ... 539258.htm

[Tanasinn]

I doubt this will rustle Americans into interest in space again, to be honest. The prevailing sentiment is "been there, done that, stuck a flag in it."

That's really stupid. For a nation whose cities hardly had an automobile in the streets circa 1980, China made a long way. It certainly reached space faster than the USA at comparable development levels.

I'm not saying it's reasonable, I'm just saying that if you ask an American, they're liable to say, "The moon? Yeah, we put men on that forty years ago." There's a wide perception of China as simply copying other countries' technology and accomplishments, whether it's a reasonable one or not.

Frankly, I think NASA'd be better-served playing up the fact that once the shuttles retire, we're in an awkward situation, but even then, people are going to be chilly in regards to space exploration when they can't even get a fucking job.

[Sarevok]

The last thing we need is another oneshot effort like Apollo. The Americans already made the mistake once. The Chineese repeating it does not help the cause of humans in space.

[Aaron]

I get the impression that China actually has a plan. I vaguely recall an article posted here a while back that said thy planned to do things ins stages, manned flight, station, moon mission, etc.