Let's Create a proper MBT for Halo.

[Vehrec]

So, we seem to be in agreement that the Scorpion from halo sucks donkey balls as far as actual tankness goes. Were it a fair bit faster, it might be a nice anti-infantry model for low intensity combat, but it would probably be taken out by an Abrams. So, why not have some fun, and suggest the possible forms 'big brother' might take.

Keep in mind the general themes of the UNSC-interstellar supply lines and questionably regular resupply are facts of life, so KISS. Projectile weapons and coilguns are A-ok, but lasers and other DEW should be bulky, expensive, and rare. Since this is going to probably be an Army vehicle and not a Navy or a Marine job, it can have an actual crew. Still, they should have jobs that a computer or automation can't handle easily. Design for the job they were supposed to do-most of the UNSC's conflicts were rebel uprisings and splinter factions of it's own power structure, so design a vehicle to fight those first and foremost. It seems likely that it's likely enemy on paper would be itself or some sort of local equivalent. City-fighting is also to be expected, so neglecting rear, top and side coverage can be a unsafe decision. The Covenant bring a different set of rules to the party with Grunt-waves and Elites, so an upgrade for them and another late war design featuring some new technology might not be bad ideas either.

Throw your ideas out there naked, or give them some clothes with numbers or a tanksharp file. Come on, the bar is set pretty damn low here people!

[Interlord1]

Scorpion with a bigger engine, more armour and stronger cannon? Then add a machine gun to the top of the turret, and possibly a Flamethrower or a more powerful version of the spartan laser mounted on the front. Maybe add a dumb AI to the machine guns if its not too expensive.

Edit: In fact, maybe replace the roof mounted machine gun with a small gauss gun, like the Gauss warthog.

[Dave]

Why not clone some modern day tank? Any current tank would probably be better than the current open cockpit design.

[SapphireFox]

Similar in concept to the last idea, I would shrink the height of the scorpion and up-armor and up-gun it to modern MBT calibers. Perhaps elongate it to accommodate a more powerful engine strong enough to equal or exceed the scorpion in speed. Include axial machine guns on either side of the main gun barrel, with a remote operated machine gun turret either on top of the main turret or more likely to the rear of the main turret between the engine and the ammo compartment. (to take care of the rear and above attackers) The turret/ammo bay assemblies are modular so weapons loadouts can be changed easily by a crew the main turret can be exchanged with a missile launcher turret for anti-air use or over the horizon fire. The smaller turret can be exchanged for a number smaller scale weapon systems like a flame thrower turret or a 7.62mm 3 or 6 barreled Gatling gun or an automatic grenade launcher.

The driver is situated in an armored well with a thick armored slab with vision permitting telescopes (not unlike on the modern M1 Abrams) however like the M1 the driver can raise the armor to see clearly when not under fire. The driver will also have access to an number of monitors in the driver compartment giving the ability to see through the cctv cameras mounted on the gun turrets and giving him the ability to see (and fire) effectively in all directions.

While the driver can technically drive and fight with only one crew member a second armored well is provided for a gunner with more specialized targeting equipment and cctv gun access allowing for better multitasking and more effective use of the rear turret.

However while the whole thing is capable of being human piloted it is designed to be able to be used by a "dumb" AI much like a giant tachikoma from Ghost in the Shell. allowing it to be spammed out in mass or (if you dont trust the AI on its own) it can be wielded with human oversight. Not unlike a Bolo in that regard

Thus I dub thee the M-121 Damnation Main Battle Tank!

[Stark]

I know it probably isn't enough wank, but change to a conventional layout drivetrain/engine wise, lower the turret and add an RWS, then cover it in Jackal shields. Done.

[Chaotic Neutral]

Copy an M1-Abrams, add Halo materials and weapons, possibly add a Gauss cannon if superior to standard, replace diesel engine with fusion reactor, and add one of those anti-missile systems the Israelis use on their APCs.

[Srelex]

First of all, I'll make it fly, getting rid of all these silly treads! Then tack some missile launchers on, with some Gatling cannons, then some more missile launchers, and then make it huge as fuck, and then cram it with power armor, until you get this!

Okay, in all seriousness, I'd just make the thing faster and give it a better punch. That'd be mored suited for the game itself.

[adam_grif]

Focus on making it very mobile at the expense of extremely heavy armor; you want it thick enough to stop infantry fire / light plasma weapons, but thick armor doesn't stop that slow ass plasma fart weapon that the covenant hovertanks use for the scorp, so don't bother.

Instead, keep it to 30-40 tonnes if possible. Can be driven with one man, but also supports a second crew member to help man the guns. 1x Coaxial 14.5mm machinegun, 1x remote operated weapons mount w/ 14.5mm machinegun and maybe some grenades. 14.5 >>> 7.62 for killing elites/brutes, and seems to be a highly effective round for use against the covenant.

Although I rag on the 90mm main gun sometimes, it is more than adequate, so probably keep that, or at most up-gun to 105. 120 just isn't necessary for what they're fighting, the only enemies that don't go down from 1 hit to the 90mm already seem to be those covenant dropships / giant enemy crab walkers, and I'm not sure that 120mm would really help things all that much.

If it can support the mass without going too far over the limit, it should mount some ATGMs for heavy lifting. Arbitrarily, I'll choose 180mm, with the option to fit tac-nuke warheads to take down dropships/giant enemy crabs.

[Stark]

Make the gun smaller and use a missile pod for the few heavy enemy vehicles. Use overlapping jackal shields to replace any need to upgrade the armour; you should have enough to cover the frontal arc after about 20m of a Spartan running around. They even come back on after a while.

[adam_grif]

40mm autocannon should be more than adequate for killing any cov infantry in a couple of hits anyway, and likely ruin most of their light vehicles in short order. As far as replacing armor with shields, it's my understanding that plasma weapons are much better at cutting through shields than they are at armor. It's possible that it might be "better" to just use light armor instead, although there's no real way we could know for sure since the details aare vague at best.

Although now it's not really an MBT anymore, but who cares.

EDIT:

Actually, they could do pretty damn well if they got a gauss-hog and refitted them so that it was actually enclosed. The Gauss gun on the back gets rigged up as a remote operated weapon, the passenger controls it. 2 man vehicle. Don't said warthog variants already destroy enemy armor pretty well?

[Chris OFarrell]

There appear to be a few design 'needs' for the Scorpion.

Firstly, it has to be light enough and small enough to be carried by a Pellican Dropship into the combat zone.

Second, it has to be able to take on the Covenant Wraith, Ghost and their hover APC thing, and do so along without support vehicles, given that it appears the UNSC use their vehicles more to reinforce infintry units then have massed armor formations.

And Third, Spartans have to be able to flip it over.
Okay, that was a joke

Anyway.

First, some redesigns.

Go back to a SANE MBT design, instead of the turret way back and mounted on a stalk, get a design that makes sense. None of that crazy 4 different groups of tracks. The M1 or the T-90 would be a good base to start from.

The main weapon needs to be improved. A LOT. Instead of a 90mm cannon that takes multiple shots to get through the armor of an enemy Wraith, you need a 105 or 120 mm cannon that can do it in one. 105 would be better, as you can store more ammo, and it should be strong enough. You also need to have multiple ammo types; high explosive for use against enemy light vehicles and soft targets, SABOT for punching through enemy armor and canister for blasting away a lot of grunts. The turret also needs to traverse faster

I'd keep the Coaxial machine gun because its useful, but I'd also put a RWS Gauss cannon, like the one on the Warthog, on a second turret on top of the main turret. Give it a good freedom of movement so it can be used against heavy infintry like Elites, Hunters and Brutes, as well as blast Banshees out of the sky if they are stupid enough to try and attack it. Also needs the tank concentrate on major threats like enemy Wraiths, while shreading close attack threats like Ghosts if they get too close, or hell, even enemy Wraiths if they get too close.

Armor depends entirely on if its practical to actually armor a tank to shrug off those plasma morters AND remain combat effective while doing it. If its possible, do so. If not, give it enough protection to take at least a hit or two, as well as shrug off light plasma weapons, and leave it at that.

And suffice to say, the crew will sit deep INSIDE the thing with very secure hatches, none of thise grate or light armor cover BS.

[adam_grif]

The main weapon needs to be improved. A LOT. Instead of a 90mm cannon that takes multiple shots to get through the armor of an enemy Wraith, you need a 105 or 120 mm cannon that can do it in one. 105 would be better, as you can store more ammo, and it should be strong enough. You also need to have multiple ammo types; high explosive for use against enemy light vehicles and soft targets, SABOT for punching through enemy armor and canister for blasting away a lot of grunts. The turret also needs to traverse faster

Does it take multiple hits? I didn't remember that, but I only play on Heroic or w/e, not legendary.

Halopedia reports that it fires 90mm "Armor piercing balistic capped" rounds. Sounds to me like it's not firing APFSDS rounds, which alone could probably serve to put covvy vehicles out of commission much more effectively, even without a heavier gun.

But really, IFV style vehicle with numerous ATGM's (120-150mm possibly) would be just fine for taking out Cov ground forces.

Armoing to protect from plasma mortars is pretty much irrelevant given how slow they move through the air. They're fucking useless for hitting a mobile target beyond like 30 meters.

[Vehrec]

Some things to consider at this stage. What kind of engine are we using, fusion reactor, ICE of some sort, batteries? Should it be standard gun design, or a coilgun for extra ammo stowage? No propellant=more rounds stored. If we can get something with enough punch to kneecap a scorpion, I would certainly not object!

Armoring against plasma mortars might be unnecessary, but it's a good target. Unfortunately, that would be a top armor thing. Top armor is HEAVY. Since realistic armor against this threat would be quite heavy, we'll need to outrun and out-range it. outrunning the Wraith and it's projectiles is easy, outranging it a bit harder.

Nobody has included any active defense systems so far in their designs, and I'm not quite sure what to make of that.

[Arachnidus]

Nobody has included any active defense systems so far in their designs, and I'm not quite sure what to make of that.

There's not really much you can do against plasma. High grade energy shields would require a fairly large reactor or energy source of some type, and I'm not sure with any MBT design if that type of addon could be stomached. Perhaps a magnetic field generator? Something to eliminate or dampen the plasma before it hits the hull?

[open_sketchbook]

I'm honestly having trouble seeing why the Scorpian is super terrible outside of gameplay bullshit. Enclose the fucking cockpit like it was in Halo 1, increase it's maximum speed to a realistic level, and boom, your good. It's pretty low to the ground with an unmanned turret sticking up to fire from a hull down position, has a fairly powerful cannon and co-axil gun, the cockpit is behind more than half the length of the body for maximum survivability. That's better than most sci-fi settings right there.

The Scorpion seems to be designed for close-ranged fighting in built up areas, which makes a degree of sense as the Covenant tend to go down and attack population centers and such rather than landing in the middle of nowhere (and it fits the Vietnam era style that Halo emulates). It's got a short cannon so it can manuver in enclosed areas, the track pods seem to be designed to cross broken terrain/rubble whatever and it allows it to operate even if one pod gets knocked out, and so forth.

With the ability to have a one or two man crew, there is no need for a conventionally shaped tank; you can cut the fat and have less surface area exposed to the enemy. Keep you guys out of the turret and nestled in the middle of the hull.

It's not a perfect design, but it's terribleness seems to come from gameplay mechanics more than actually retarded design. I can think of a long list of far more terrible sci-fi vehicles and lets face it, just having a clone of late 20th century vehicles with more future shiny would be all boring and stuff.

[Star Wars 888]

Nobody has included any active defense systems so far in their designs, and I'm not quite sure what to make of that.

There's not really much you can do against plasma. High grade energy shields would require a fairly large reactor or energy source of some type, and I'm not sure with any MBT design if that type of addon could be stomached. Perhaps a magnetic field generator? Something to eliminate or dampen the plasma before it hits the hull?

If Halo armor is outstripped by its weapons, then maybe a faster and more mobile tank would be better.

Have a long ranged tank that doubles as mobile artillery with a cannon and/or missile launcher that can be guided multiple ways such as radar, heat seeking and AI guided (like an AI spotting an enemy unit and guiding the missile towards it) advanced enough to navigate through a forest and find a tank in it. It could also double as an AA gun capable of homing onto aircraft, or maybe simply add on an AA gun and/or accompany it with AA guns. Have cloaking devices if the UNSC has them, if not then active camouflage, a fast engine capable of making it go at >100 kph, a sensor that can detect troops and detect mines and perhaps an afterburner engine that can go at faster than sound speeds.

Oh, and what about some sort of mini terraformer that can make a huge hole in the ground below a tank, incapacitating it?

Armor could be capable of deflecting small arms fire and the occasional anti tank round, but need not be super heavy. Also the tank might be compactable to store it in a bunker in the case of orbital bombardment and some way to have it airdropped/spacedropped easily.

In the case of being attacked, these tanks could fire directly or indirectly from a long range while moving away so that the hostile units won't be able to catch up.

Or maybe put on those uber relativistic guns, although the recoil would probably destroy the tank if they can't find a way around that and the energy required might not be storeable on a tank.

[adam_grif]

I'm honestly having trouble seeing why the Scorpian is super terrible outside of gameplay bullshit.

It clocks in at 66 metric tonnes (not just tech manuals and crap say this, Sergeant in one of the games says it too), despite having only a single 90mm and a single 7.62mm MG. 7.62 is fucking useless Vs the covenant's shielded infantry, .50 cal or 14.5mm would be a much, much better choice. The cockpit exposes the people inside to enemy fire (from memory), AND it's slow as fuck.

[Stark]

There's not really much you can do against plasma. High grade energy shields would require a fairly large reactor or energy source of some type, and I'm not sure with any MBT design if that type of addon could be stomached. Perhaps a magnetic field generator? Something to eliminate or dampen the plasma before it hits the hull?

Are you dumb? Halo is built around shields.

[adam_grif]

There's not really much you can do against plasma. High grade energy shields would require a fairly large reactor or energy source of some type, and I'm not sure with any MBT design if that type of addon could be stomached. Perhaps a magnetic field generator? Something to eliminate or dampen the plasma before it hits the hull?

Are you dumb? Halo is built around shields.

Yes but I don't think we've ever seen a ground vehicle survive a plasma mortar or anything, while the regular piddly plasma guns get stopped by regular armor anyway. The MC's shields cost a gajillion fafillion dollars because they need some magical microfusion reactor or something, so it might be worth it to just skimp on the shields entirely and go with a more conventional lighter vehicle, unless we're talking about a specialist vehicle produced in limited numbers.

[Ryan Thunder]

Depends on whether or not the tanks are worth as much as the SPARTANs are, in terms of expenditure.

And even then, they'll still get wasted by a plasma mortar, so I don't really see the point.

[Stark]

Yes but I don't think we've ever seen a ground vehicle survive a plasma mortar or anything, while the regular piddly plasma guns get stopped by regular armor anyway. The MC's shields cost a gajillion fafillion dollars because they need some magical microfusion reactor or something, so it might be worth it to just skimp on the shields entirely and go with a more conventional lighter vehicle, unless we're talking about a specialist vehicle produced in limited numbers.

Why are you comparing artillery weapons to personal shields? No human vehicle has shields anyway (for stupid plot reasons), and standoff jackal shields is apparently too complex for the UNSC.

[Ford Prefect]

1. Take a third generation MBT. Maybe the Leclerc because I like it.
2. Replace the main gun with a gauss cannon.
3. SO EASY.

[adam_grif]

Why are you comparing artillery weapons to personal shields? No human vehicle has shields anyway (for stupid plot reasons), and standoff jackal shields is apparently too complex for the UNSC.

Covenant ground vehicles don't have shields either. I'm saying that shields are expensive for humans to produce (apparently), and they probably aren't going to be worth it, cost/benefit wise. Just keeping at >100 m away and moving from time to time is enough to protect you from the heaviest covenant weapons available (Plasma mortars + fuel rod guns) while you attack them with total impunity.

[Stark]

They don't? Crazy.

You'd think the Cov would have vehicles that used the heavier, more useful weapons introduced in later games, but I guess that's heavy retcon territory. Isn't the plasma mortar's max and minimum ranges such that it has a really small engagement window?

[open_sketchbook]

I'm honestly having trouble seeing why the Scorpian is super terrible outside of gameplay bullshit.

It clocks in at 66 metric tonnes (not just tech manuals and crap say this, Sergeant in one of the games says it too), despite having only a single 90mm and a single 7.62mm MG. 7.62 is fucking useless Vs the covenant's shielded infantry, .50 cal or 14.5mm would be a much, much better choice. The cockpit exposes the people inside to enemy fire (from memory), AND it's slow as fuck.

It's speed has varied immensely between games and it's crew compartment was enclosed in the first two games, so it's pretty clear those factors are down to gameplay bullshit. Hell, we all know that having a real tank in Halo would totally fuck the gameplay up anyway so complaining that it can't do 120 kph is pretty hilarious. Yeah, you could probably put a bigger gun on it. On the other hand, we don't know if a 105 or 120 would actually be much more effective than it's 90mm; it's not clear if what it's firing would scale up enough with the size increase to oneshot the targets it needs multiple hits to take down. Maybe the increased ammo capacity is worth it? I won't dispute that sticking a bigger machine-gun on it, and perhaps some kind of automated point defense turret on the front to ward off close-range infantry and prevent them from climing onboard and shoving a plasma grenade into you, would be nice, but I'm not seeing it being the worst sci-fi tank ever, especially considering their opposition!

And all you folks going "hurr hurr lets just use a modern tank" are being super retarded. There is no need for all that fucking surface area with a crew of one or two people! Provide less target and dedicate more of your weight to other shit.