China launches Moon mission
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- Sarevok
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Re: China launches Moon mission
What humans need is permanent space infrastructure. The moon can be part of that but there are many prerequisite steps missing. To make use of the moon you need
-orbital propellant depots
- permanent spacecraft shuttling between Earth and Luna,
-advanced robotic mining techniques for actually making use of lunar resources
-cheaper launchers for deploying all these stuff.
- etc
I would rather see a space program completely focus on these first rather than manned exploration of moon or beyond. Another decade or two of tooling around in near Earth space is boring. But the results will be game changing when they pay off.
So far everyone including China has talked about moon bases and other permanent lunar fixtures. But no one has decided to make the huge initial investment a proper foundation for space based infrastructure requires.
-orbital propellant depots
- permanent spacecraft shuttling between Earth and Luna,
-advanced robotic mining techniques for actually making use of lunar resources
-cheaper launchers for deploying all these stuff.
- etc
I would rather see a space program completely focus on these first rather than manned exploration of moon or beyond. Another decade or two of tooling around in near Earth space is boring. But the results will be game changing when they pay off.
So far everyone including China has talked about moon bases and other permanent lunar fixtures. But no one has decided to make the huge initial investment a proper foundation for space based infrastructure requires.
I have to tell you something everything I wrote above is a lie.
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Re: China launches Moon mission
In order to get people interested in space as a proft-return investment, there needs to be a discussion about property rights on the Moon and elsewhere first. As it is, the Moon is treated like a giant national park, where no one has rights to it and yet anything harvested from it is shared. Investors will want sole property and mineral rights to get a return on their investment. Otherwise there's no profit.
As long as human society is oriented towards "profit" as a pinnacle goal, this will be the case.
As long as human society is oriented towards "profit" as a pinnacle goal, this will be the case.
Something about Libertarianism always bothered me. Then one day, I realized what it was:
Libertarian philosophy can be boiled down to the phrase, "Work Will Make You Free."
In Libertarianism, there is no Government, so the Bosses are free to exploit the Workers.
In Communism, there is no Government, so the Workers are free to exploit the Bosses.
So in Libertarianism, man exploits man, but in Communism, its the other way around!
If all you want to do is have some harmless, mindless fun, go H3RE INST3ADZ0RZ!!
Grrr! Fight my Brute, you pansy!
Libertarian philosophy can be boiled down to the phrase, "Work Will Make You Free."
In Libertarianism, there is no Government, so the Bosses are free to exploit the Workers.
In Communism, there is no Government, so the Workers are free to exploit the Bosses.
So in Libertarianism, man exploits man, but in Communism, its the other way around!
If all you want to do is have some harmless, mindless fun, go H3RE INST3ADZ0RZ!!
Grrr! Fight my Brute, you pansy!
- MKSheppard
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Re: China launches Moon mission
This means the Outer Space Treaty must be torn to shreds before we can get any real space investment.
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"The present air situation in the Pacific is entirely the result of fighting a fifth rate air power." - U.S. Navy Memo - 24 July 1944
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Re: China launches Moon mission
If a treaty is no longer useful to the signing parties then it should be replaced.
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Now I did a job. I got nothing but trouble since I did it, not to mention more than a few unkind words as regard to my character so let me make this abundantly clear. I do the job. And then I get paid.- Malcolm Reynolds, Captain of Serenity, which sums up my feelings regarding the lawsuit discussed here.
If a free society cannot help the many who are poor, it cannot save the few who are rich. - John F. Kennedy
Sam Vimes Theory of Economic Injustice
Re: China launches Moon mission
There's nothing in it that directly forbids commercial operations, and the wording of Article 2 leaves a good deal of leeway for commercial concerns, or even private individuals; remember that brief fad for deeds asserting your claim to a few square acres of the Moon's surface? Pity those probably won't stand up in court, really; I bet my little brother's forgotten Dad got one for his birthday once...MKSheppard wrote:This means the Outer Space Treaty must be torn to shreds before we can get any real space investment.
And it's not as if we'd be drilling for oil or strip-mining up there anyway, because the only mineral resource the Moon has in abundance compared to Earth is the aforementioned helium-3, which wouldn't be that hard to extract non-destructively and doesn't have many proven uses anyway. If there's any commercial use to be made of the moon at all, it'll probably be manufacturing; I read somewhere that low gravity is supposed to be beneficial for manufacturing some electronic components, and you could probably do some pretty interesting things with metallurgy or chemistry as well.
Unfortunately I can't see any of this being remotely economical without either a massive leap forward in propulsion tech -like anti-gravity drive kind of massive leap- or the Unobtanium necessary to build an orbital elevator.
There are hardly any excesses of the most crazed psychopath that cannot easily be duplicated by a normal kindly family man who just comes in to work every day and has a job to do.
-- (Terry Pratchett, Small Gods)
Replace "ginger" with "n*gger," and suddenly it become a lot less funny, doesn't it?
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-- (Terry Pratchett, Small Gods)
Replace "ginger" with "n*gger," and suddenly it become a lot less funny, doesn't it?
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Re: China launches Moon mission
Shep just wants a new place to play with his nukes!Zaune wrote:There's nothing in it that directly forbids commercial operations, and the wording of Article 2 leaves a good deal of leeway for commercial concerns, or even private individuals; remember that brief fad for deeds asserting your claim to a few square acres of the Moon's surface? Pity those probably won't stand up in court, really; I bet my little brother's forgotten Dad got one for his birthday once...MKSheppard wrote:This means the Outer Space Treaty must be torn to shreds before we can get any real space investment.
More seriously, easing restrictions on military development may have helped, at least in the development of applicable technology, back in the 60s, 70s and 80s; but with so many military programs getting cut or restricted since the end of the Cold War, I can't see it really helping now.
Zaune wrote:And it's not as if we'd be drilling for oil or strip-mining up there anyway, because the only mineral resource the Moon has in abundance compared to Earth is the aforementioned helium-3, which wouldn't be that hard to extract non-destructively and doesn't have many proven uses anyway. If there's any commercial use to be made of the moon at all, it'll probably be manufacturing; I read somewhere that low gravity is supposed to be beneficial for manufacturing some electronic components, and you could probably do some pretty interesting things with metallurgy or chemistry as well.
Moon potential goldmine of natural resources
by Staff Writers
Cape Canaveral, Florida (AFP) July 16, 2009
As the Earth's natural resources gradually dwindle, some scientists believe the moon could prove a goldmine for future generations.
Forty years after American Neil Armstrong first walked on the moon, and as the United States prepares to return astronauts to Earth's nearest neighbor by 2020, it remains an object of fascination and curiosity.
Part of the goal of once again returning to our only satellite, and establishing bases there, is to learn more about its hidden natural resources.
"The moon still has a great deal of scientific information left to be discovered that relates directly to... our understanding of the history of the Earth and early history of other planets," geologist Harrison Schmitt told AFP.
Schmitt landed on the moon in 1972 aboard the Apollo 17, the last manned mission to ever touch down on the lunar surface. He is among an elite group of 12 Americans who are the only people to have walked on the moon.
Among the 382 kilos (842 pounds) of rocks and lunar soil brought back by astronauts from the moon during six Apollo missions is a rock that scientists call "genesis," which dates back to around 4.5 million years ago, about the time when the solar system began.
The moon, which has virtually no atmosphere, is effectively a geological blank slate for scientists because it has not had the contact with water and air that has changed the Earth's surface.
"One reason to go back to the moon is to find out whether there is anything of value to be done there... If the answer is yes, you can do economically valuable things and use local resources," said John Logsdon, a curator at Washington's National Air and Space Museum.
America's new lunar program, dubbed Constellation, was launched in 2004 with the intention of establishing a forward operating station for astronauts as well as to seek evidence of water beneath the moon's ground ice.
President Barack Obama has appointed a commission to review the program's cost and goals, but the launch last month of two preparatory lunar modules suggests it is likely to proceed in some form.
Several other countries, including China and Russia, have announced their ambitions to send missions to the moon, which is 384,400 kilometers (238,855 miles) from Earth -- about a four-day trip by space shuttle.
"I think you will see at least Antarctic-like scientific outposts and maybe even larger facilities on the moon, with people spending long durations of time there," Logsdon told AFP.
Schmitt, a former astronaut, noted that the moon's soil is rich in helium-3, which comes from the outer layer of the sun and is blown around the solar system by solar winds.
The element is rarely found on Earth, unlike on the moon, where it is heavily accumulated because it is pushed away by the Earth's magnetic poles.
Helium-3 is highly sought for nuclear fusion, and though the technology is still in its infancy, the element "will ultimately be quite valuable on Earth," Schmitt said.
"It's not the only solution to the accelerating demand for energy that we are going to see on Earth, but it's certainly one of the major potential solutions to that demand."
Reserves of helium-3 on the moon are in the order of a million tons, according to some estimates, and just 25 tons could serve to power the European Union and United States for a year.
The moon is also an ideal location for astronauts to prepare and train for long missions into space, including to Mars, according to NASA.
"Lunar exploration will allow us to test technologies, systems, flight operation and exploration techniques that will reduce the risk and cost of potential future human missions to asteroids, Mars and beyond," the US space agency said.
The Resources of the Moon and Beyond
By Dennis Wingo
Last year about this time I began writing a book called "Moonrush, Improving Life on Earth with the Moon's Resources." This book was in response to the January 14, 2004 announcement by President Bush regarding his "vision" for space exploration. Vision is a word in the bible that reads; "Where there is no vision the people perish." The translation of vision from the original Hebrew is "sense of purpose." A year later we need to focus on what our "sense of purpose" is in this exploration program. What is our purpose in doing this? Is it science? International prestige? Educational inspiration? All these reasons are bandied about, but history shows that none really capture the public's broad support.
In March 1989 about 300 people gathered near Houston, Texas to begin a project called Lunar Prospector. These people chose the name Lunar Prospector for a reason. We wanted to convey that the purpose of Prospector was to prospect the Moon for water and other valuable minerals. Through a lot of effort and the perseverance of folks like Dr. Al Binder, Lunar Prospector eventually flew. However, it was only a first step. Later the Strategic Defense Initiative Organization flew the Clementine mission that extended the search for resources. But still it was not enough. Today NASA, in its new vision, is flying the Lunar Reconnaissance Orbiter. These missions were, and will not be enough because what is needed is a greater sense of purpose behind such missions than just science.
We need to broaden our approach with the new vision to include the development of the Moon and its resources. In the end commerce is not NASA's job. However, NASA and the government as a whole must take into account the development imperative and its importance to humanity's collective future. The U.S. government's role in 1862 when signing the National Railroad Act was not to operate railroads but to reduce the risk for investors to the point to where a continent spanning railroad, which was of great importance in binding a nation together and promoting commerce, could be built. In 1956 with the Interstate and Defense Highway Act, it was not the purpose for the government to just build and operate roads, but to build a national highway infrastructure that would enable the rapid and efficient development of interstate commerce. It is said by many in the environmental movement that the U.S. consumes far more than its share of resources. However, as we move into the 21st century this consumption is rising around the world. It could be the legacy of America to the world to open up this new commercial frontier for the benefit of all mankind.
Starting with water and oxygen on the Moon and the exploitation of high value metallic asteroid impactors on the Moon, we can shift the economics of the hydrogen economy, lowering the cost of fuel cells and delivering thousands of tons of high quality metals for use in building up lunar and space based commercial operations. While Platinum Group Metals (PGM's), indispensable for efficient fuel cell operation, are known to exist on the Moon in diffuse quantities from the Apollo samples, it is only through prospecting with the right sensors from orbit and follow up Landers that we will expand this resource base.
On the Earth we now know that many of our valuable metallic resources such as nickel, PGM's, and others are derived from asteroid impacts. From Sudbury in Canada to the Vredfort Dome in South Africa hundreds of billions of dollars worth of these metals have been extracted. Recently, the Opportunity rover on Mars found a small metal meteorite as it was driving across the sand. What would be the impact of finding concentrations of these on the Moon? In my book I work through the math of impacts to estimate hundreds of billions of tons of these impactors on the Moon. If only a fraction of these are there, then indeed we could see a "Moon Rush" that would make the Gold Rush of California seem small in comparison.
Dennis Wingo is Chief Technical Officer of Orbital Recovery Corp, he is also CEO of Skycorp a space technology contracting company of Huntsville AL. He is author of Moonrush: Improving Life on Earth with the Moon's Resources
In another thread I believe a space fountain was posited as being more likely (and more possible) to be developed.Zaune wrote:Unfortunately I can't see any of this being remotely economical without either a massive leap forward in propulsion tech -like anti-gravity drive kind of massive leap- or the Unobtanium necessary to build an orbital elevator.
Mr. Harley: Your impatience is quite understandable.
Klaatu: I'm impatient with stupidity. My people have learned to live without it.
Mr. Harley: I'm afraid my people haven't. I'm very sorry... I wish it were otherwise.
"I do know that for the sympathy of one living being, I would make peace with all. I have love in me the likes of which you can scarcely imagine and rage the likes of which you would not believe.
If I cannot satisfy the one, I will indulge the other." – Frankenstein's Creature on the glacier[/size]
Klaatu: I'm impatient with stupidity. My people have learned to live without it.
Mr. Harley: I'm afraid my people haven't. I'm very sorry... I wish it were otherwise.
"I do know that for the sympathy of one living being, I would make peace with all. I have love in me the likes of which you can scarcely imagine and rage the likes of which you would not believe.
If I cannot satisfy the one, I will indulge the other." – Frankenstein's Creature on the glacier[/size]
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Re: China launches Moon mission
Are bigass railguns ever going to be cheap enough?Zaune wrote:Unfortunately I can't see any of this being remotely economical without either a massive leap forward in propulsion tech -like anti-gravity drive kind of massive leap- or the Unobtanium necessary to build an orbital elevator.
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Re: China launches Moon mission
Well, for the Moon we could use mass drivers or a space elevator. With current tech we should be able to do it, and current materials are supposedly strong enough to build one in Mars' gravity.
A skyhook for Mars is easier than one for the earth. Since the rotation rate for Mars is nearly the same as that of earth (24.5 hours) while its gravity field is lower (0.38 gravities), a Mars skyhook using graphite would only mass 42 times what it could lift. Mars is the best planet in the solar system for a synchronous cable, having both a shallow gravity well and a high rotation rate. It also has a 21 kilometer high mountain, Mons Pavonis, on the equator and a small moon, Deimos, that is available at almost just the right orbit to act as the counterweight.
Mr. Harley: Your impatience is quite understandable.
Klaatu: I'm impatient with stupidity. My people have learned to live without it.
Mr. Harley: I'm afraid my people haven't. I'm very sorry... I wish it were otherwise.
"I do know that for the sympathy of one living being, I would make peace with all. I have love in me the likes of which you can scarcely imagine and rage the likes of which you would not believe.
If I cannot satisfy the one, I will indulge the other." – Frankenstein's Creature on the glacier[/size]
Klaatu: I'm impatient with stupidity. My people have learned to live without it.
Mr. Harley: I'm afraid my people haven't. I'm very sorry... I wish it were otherwise.
"I do know that for the sympathy of one living being, I would make peace with all. I have love in me the likes of which you can scarcely imagine and rage the likes of which you would not believe.
If I cannot satisfy the one, I will indulge the other." – Frankenstein's Creature on the glacier[/size]
Re: China launches Moon mission
I'm seeing a lot of 'if's in those articles, particularly about the nickel and platinum-group metals, and I won't regard helium-3's value as a fuel source as a done deal 'til someone builds a working prototype. But if they are up there, the Moon isn't Antarctica; barring the discovery that there's indigenous life up there after all, which is unlikely but I suppose not entirely impossible, the environmental impact of mining is going to be purely cosmetic.Temujin wrote:[two large articles]
Heh. I'm pretty sure suggesting that Arthur C. Clarke might have guessed wrong about the future of manned spaceflight is considered heresy in some circles. And I'm almost afraid to ask what a 'space fountain' is.In another thread I believe a space fountain was posited as being more likely (and more possible) to be developed.
I really, really hope not.Chaotic Neutral wrote:Are bigass railguns ever going to be cheap enough?
There are hardly any excesses of the most crazed psychopath that cannot easily be duplicated by a normal kindly family man who just comes in to work every day and has a job to do.
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Replace "ginger" with "n*gger," and suddenly it become a lot less funny, doesn't it?
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Re: China launches Moon mission
Why is that?Zaune wrote:I really, really hope not.Chaotic Neutral wrote:Are bigass railguns ever going to be cheap enough?
Re: China launches Moon mission
Because railguns whose projectiles can be loaded with a substantial amount of freight and be fired with enough velocity to hit the Moon can probably launch a sub-calibre sabot with enough force to deny the Earth's surface to multi-cellular life for the next few thousand years? Mankind is not yet ready for that kind of power, at least not in commercial service.
There are hardly any excesses of the most crazed psychopath that cannot easily be duplicated by a normal kindly family man who just comes in to work every day and has a job to do.
-- (Terry Pratchett, Small Gods)
Replace "ginger" with "n*gger," and suddenly it become a lot less funny, doesn't it?
-- fgalkin
Like my writing? Tip me on Patreon
I Have A Blog
-- (Terry Pratchett, Small Gods)
Replace "ginger" with "n*gger," and suddenly it become a lot less funny, doesn't it?
-- fgalkin
Like my writing? Tip me on Patreon
I Have A Blog
- Sarevok
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Re: China launches Moon mission
Lunar resources are utterlu utterly useless for people on Earth. If someone wants to promote lunar infrastructure development by selling stuff mined there they will fail. Perhaps in the distant future when we actually have built a fusion reactor requiring helium-3 it will be a different case.
But for now the sole value of space mining is in space based activities. The moon has advantage of being close by and low gravity. It can be used as a source of propellant by cracking lunar ice. In future certain parts of satelites and spacecraft may be manufactured there and launched for assembly,
But for now the sole value of space mining is in space based activities. The moon has advantage of being close by and low gravity. It can be used as a source of propellant by cracking lunar ice. In future certain parts of satelites and spacecraft may be manufactured there and launched for assembly,
I have to tell you something everything I wrote above is a lie.
- Sarevok
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Re: China launches Moon mission
Lol wut ?Zaune wrote:Because railguns whose projectiles can be loaded with a substantial amount of freight and be fired with enough velocity to hit the Moon can probably launch a sub-calibre sabot with enough force to deny the Earth's surface to multi-cellular life for the next few thousand years? Mankind is not yet ready for that kind of power, at least not in commercial service.
Even the most grand proposal for a lunar mass driver looks pathetic next to a small nuke. Or even a chemical rocket. A railgun launcher just shoots small stuff. It wont have the punch of a big conventional bomb much less a WMD.
I have to tell you something everything I wrote above is a lie.
- Sarevok
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Re: China launches Moon mission
Earth based railgun launch has too many problems. Like the atmosphere friction related heating preventing stuff flying at orbital velocities for one. If Earth were an airless world it might have worked. But our planets atmosphere is too thick of an impediment to overcome.Chaotic Neutral wrote:Are bigass railguns ever going to be cheap enough?Zaune wrote:Unfortunately I can't see any of this being remotely economical without either a massive leap forward in propulsion tech -like anti-gravity drive kind of massive leap- or the Unobtanium necessary to build an orbital elevator.
I have to tell you something everything I wrote above is a lie.
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Re: China launches Moon mission
Off by a few hundred million, but...Among the 382 kilos (842 pounds) of rocks and lunar soil brought back by astronauts from the moon during six Apollo missions is a rock that scientists call "genesis," which dates back to around 4.5 million years ago, about the time when the solar system began.
Something about Libertarianism always bothered me. Then one day, I realized what it was:
Libertarian philosophy can be boiled down to the phrase, "Work Will Make You Free."
In Libertarianism, there is no Government, so the Bosses are free to exploit the Workers.
In Communism, there is no Government, so the Workers are free to exploit the Bosses.
So in Libertarianism, man exploits man, but in Communism, its the other way around!
If all you want to do is have some harmless, mindless fun, go H3RE INST3ADZ0RZ!!
Grrr! Fight my Brute, you pansy!
Libertarian philosophy can be boiled down to the phrase, "Work Will Make You Free."
In Libertarianism, there is no Government, so the Bosses are free to exploit the Workers.
In Communism, there is no Government, so the Workers are free to exploit the Bosses.
So in Libertarianism, man exploits man, but in Communism, its the other way around!
If all you want to do is have some harmless, mindless fun, go H3RE INST3ADZ0RZ!!
Grrr! Fight my Brute, you pansy!
Re: China launches Moon mission
They don't. They say China is faking its flights, too, and filming them inside a pool, so yeah, if they send images of Apollo hardware from the surface of the Moon, they'll just say it's a fake to give the "landings" legitimacy and rub America's noses in it.Jaepheth wrote:What I will personally find interesting is if moon landing deniers claim China is faking it too.
If they (the deniers) believe China's missions are real; then when Chinese astronauts send images of the original American landing site will they suddenly switch positions and say the Chinese must be part of the conspiracy, or accept that America really did go to the moon?
Then again, if you took those guys to the Moon and showed them around, they'd still cry "FAKERY!!!!"
The US had a plan, too. Very recently, even.Aaron wrote:I get the impression that China actually has a plan. I vaguely recall an article posted here a while back that said thy planned to do things ins stages, manned flight, station, moon mission, etc.
Then it got shitcanned and whoopsie, no lunar bases.
JULY 20TH 1969 - The day the entire world was looking up
It suddenly struck me that that tiny pea, pretty and blue, was the Earth. I put up my thumb and shut one eye, and my thumb blotted out the planet Earth. I didn't feel like a giant. I felt very, very small.
- NEIL ARMSTRONG, MISSION COMMANDER, APOLLO 11
Signature dedicated to the greatest achievement of mankind.
MILDLY DERANGED PHYSICIST does not mind BREAKING the SOUND BARRIER, because it is INSURED. - Simon_Jester considering the problems of hypersonic flight for Team L.A.M.E.
It suddenly struck me that that tiny pea, pretty and blue, was the Earth. I put up my thumb and shut one eye, and my thumb blotted out the planet Earth. I didn't feel like a giant. I felt very, very small.
- NEIL ARMSTRONG, MISSION COMMANDER, APOLLO 11
Signature dedicated to the greatest achievement of mankind.
MILDLY DERANGED PHYSICIST does not mind BREAKING the SOUND BARRIER, because it is INSURED. - Simon_Jester considering the problems of hypersonic flight for Team L.A.M.E.
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Re: China launches Moon mission
China had the advantage of Russian (and perhaps to some degree American) know-how to draw upon. They can yap on all they like with their 'indigenous development' claims; I don't believe that those Shenzhou capsules resemble Soyuzes as a matter of coincidence.Stas Bush wrote: For a nation whose cities hardly had an automobile in the streets circa 1980, China made a long way. It certainly reached space faster than the USA at comparable development levels.
I find myself endlessly fascinated by your career - Stark, in a fit of Nerd-Validation, November 3, 2011
Re: China launches Moon mission
There's also globalization - you can outright buy much of the tech, and there's been lots of books written on the how and whys. For example, everybody knows how to make space suits and what's involed in a space walk by now ; The Chinese won't need several Gemini missions just to figure out you need external clamps on the hull to move efficiently, or how to do docking, or control systems, etc.
So they can save several missions, and that's a really big saving.
So they can save several missions, and that's a really big saving.
JULY 20TH 1969 - The day the entire world was looking up
It suddenly struck me that that tiny pea, pretty and blue, was the Earth. I put up my thumb and shut one eye, and my thumb blotted out the planet Earth. I didn't feel like a giant. I felt very, very small.
- NEIL ARMSTRONG, MISSION COMMANDER, APOLLO 11
Signature dedicated to the greatest achievement of mankind.
MILDLY DERANGED PHYSICIST does not mind BREAKING the SOUND BARRIER, because it is INSURED. - Simon_Jester considering the problems of hypersonic flight for Team L.A.M.E.
It suddenly struck me that that tiny pea, pretty and blue, was the Earth. I put up my thumb and shut one eye, and my thumb blotted out the planet Earth. I didn't feel like a giant. I felt very, very small.
- NEIL ARMSTRONG, MISSION COMMANDER, APOLLO 11
Signature dedicated to the greatest achievement of mankind.
MILDLY DERANGED PHYSICIST does not mind BREAKING the SOUND BARRIER, because it is INSURED. - Simon_Jester considering the problems of hypersonic flight for Team L.A.M.E.
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Re: China launches Moon mission
Yeah. The Americans and Russians have the honor of being the shoulders upon which the Chinese space program can stand and proclaim its greatness.
I find myself endlessly fascinated by your career - Stark, in a fit of Nerd-Validation, November 3, 2011
Re: China launches Moon mission
The real test will come when they outgrow the inherent limitations of their Soyuz-based design and start coming up with their own hardware ; While you can use a slightly modified Soyuz to make the Moon trip just fine, they'll need a lander, and that the Russians can't provide. Nobody can, in fact: nobody else currently has the expertise to make a manned lander, not even the US - 'murrica was going to reinvent one, but they decided to can that idea.
They'll also need a bigger rocket than what they have now, and it's not easy to go from their piddly Soyuz-scale launchers all the way to the heavy boosters needed to make a moon mission work with less than four separate launches.
They'll also need a bigger rocket than what they have now, and it's not easy to go from their piddly Soyuz-scale launchers all the way to the heavy boosters needed to make a moon mission work with less than four separate launches.
JULY 20TH 1969 - The day the entire world was looking up
It suddenly struck me that that tiny pea, pretty and blue, was the Earth. I put up my thumb and shut one eye, and my thumb blotted out the planet Earth. I didn't feel like a giant. I felt very, very small.
- NEIL ARMSTRONG, MISSION COMMANDER, APOLLO 11
Signature dedicated to the greatest achievement of mankind.
MILDLY DERANGED PHYSICIST does not mind BREAKING the SOUND BARRIER, because it is INSURED. - Simon_Jester considering the problems of hypersonic flight for Team L.A.M.E.
It suddenly struck me that that tiny pea, pretty and blue, was the Earth. I put up my thumb and shut one eye, and my thumb blotted out the planet Earth. I didn't feel like a giant. I felt very, very small.
- NEIL ARMSTRONG, MISSION COMMANDER, APOLLO 11
Signature dedicated to the greatest achievement of mankind.
MILDLY DERANGED PHYSICIST does not mind BREAKING the SOUND BARRIER, because it is INSURED. - Simon_Jester considering the problems of hypersonic flight for Team L.A.M.E.
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- Sith Acolyte
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Re: China launches Moon mission
I think that the Russians might still have that horrible kloodged-together son-of-Soyuz-looking LEM prototype that they put together to park on top of the N-1, that could be reverse-engineered (if someone wanted to).
Although were I a Taikonaut I would not be exactly in a rush to trust my life, to it.
Hell, maybe the PRC can have a go at reconstructing themselves a fleet of N-1s. That would sure be entertaining (not to mention spectacular) to watch... *
*not serious, not serious at *all*...
Although were I a Taikonaut I would not be exactly in a rush to trust my life, to it.
Hell, maybe the PRC can have a go at reconstructing themselves a fleet of N-1s. That would sure be entertaining (not to mention spectacular) to watch... *
*not serious, not serious at *all*...
I find myself endlessly fascinated by your career - Stark, in a fit of Nerd-Validation, November 3, 2011
- Marcus Aurelius
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Re: China launches Moon mission
Although far from trivial, I think they will find it easier to design a lander than a suitable rocket to carry the thing all the way to the Moon.Kanastrous wrote:I think that the Russians might still have that horrible kloodged-together son-of-Soyuz-looking LEM prototype that they put together to park on top of the N-1, that could be reverse-engineered (if someone wanted to).
Re: China launches Moon mission
Why is this the subtext every time China launches a space probe? Its an over-blown Cold War analogy, and shows how stuck in that mentality America, and the rest of the world, is.CaptainChewbacca wrote:Sadly, I don't think this will wake up the government and get some funding heading NASA's way.
The U.S. has the Lunar Reconnaissance Orbiter up there, and it has returned some of the most detailed photos of the Moon yet (you can see the tracks from the Apollo lunar rovers). Two more are slated, in 2011 and 2012. Five probes in total are operating in orbit, or on the surface of Mars (albeit one is stuck in sand, and not likely to last much longer). The Cassini probe continues to operate in Saturn's orbit, the New Horizons probe is on track for a flyby of Pluto and, is the first mission to the Kuiper Belt. That's to name a few of the Lunar and planetary missions operated by NASA right now.
The U.S. robotic programs have delivered a damn good bang for their buck, and will continue to do so. Its on the manned end, the U.S. is headed for limbo after 2011.
-A.L.
"Nothing in this world can take the place of persistence...Persistence and determination alone are omnipotent. The slogan 'press on' has solved and always will solve the problems of the human race." - Calvin Coolidge
"If you're falling off a cliff you may as well try to fly, you've got nothing to lose." - John Sheridan (Babylon 5)
"Sometimes you got to roll the hard six." - William Adama (Battlestar Galactica)
"Nothing in this world can take the place of persistence...Persistence and determination alone are omnipotent. The slogan 'press on' has solved and always will solve the problems of the human race." - Calvin Coolidge
"If you're falling off a cliff you may as well try to fly, you've got nothing to lose." - John Sheridan (Babylon 5)
"Sometimes you got to roll the hard six." - William Adama (Battlestar Galactica)
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- Sith Acolyte
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Re: China launches Moon mission
I think a better question is, why do we pay more than passing oh, that's nice for them attention to what China is presently up to, and what they have projected for the next few years?
Been there. Done that. When the Chinese get around to something that we didn't achieve and stick a flag on back in the 1960s, *that* will be exciting.
Been there. Done that. When the Chinese get around to something that we didn't achieve and stick a flag on back in the 1960s, *that* will be exciting.
I find myself endlessly fascinated by your career - Stark, in a fit of Nerd-Validation, November 3, 2011
- MKSheppard
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Re: China launches Moon mission
You won't be laughing when China establishes the first permanent moon base on the Moon and discovers all sorts of goodies with long term manned/unmanned exploration of the surface of the moon.
"If scientists and inventors who develop disease cures and useful technologies don't get lifetime royalties, I'd like to know what fucking rationale you have for some guy getting lifetime royalties for writing an episode of Full House." - Mike Wong
"The present air situation in the Pacific is entirely the result of fighting a fifth rate air power." - U.S. Navy Memo - 24 July 1944
"The present air situation in the Pacific is entirely the result of fighting a fifth rate air power." - U.S. Navy Memo - 24 July 1944