Legend of the Galactic Heroes: Battles (Spoilers)

[Uraniun235]

We're also told that the FPA is diverting so many skilled and professional citizens to the military that society is starting to fray.

[Jadeite]

One thing to keep in mind with population densities of Imperial worlds, is that while we are told that the Empire has a superior technological level, we don't really tend to see it distributed throughout society (unlike what we see of Alliance worlds). Aside from the elite and military, the populace seems to be mostly kept in a technological level reminiscent of the 19th century. If the advantages gained from high technology are not available to the general population, then many worlds would need lower population densities to cope with lowered carrying capacity. There's also a distinct impression I got from watching pre-Imperial civil war episodes that many Imperial nobles treat their fiefs as personal plantations, and may therefore purposely limit population/technological access in order to indulge their fantasies (and further establish that they are superior to the common masses).

[Gunhead]

I've always gotten the impression the Empire is just slightly more technologically advanced and the whole rural way of living is just style choice since there's room to spare. FPA is built differently because they've had to build up quickly so they probably used lot more prefabricated materials opposed to spreading out and building everyone his own house.

This thread needs a poll btw. about who has the sexiest ships. I'm almost totally on the empires side on this one. They have the sexiest ships in all of scifi, this without mentioning the orgasm inducing Barbarossa or Brunhilde.

-Gunhead

[Vympel]

This thread needs a poll btw. about who has the sexiest ships. I'm almost totally on the empires side on this one. They have the sexiest ships in all of scifi, this without mentioning the orgasm inducing Barbarossa or Brunhilde.

-Gunhead

Dont' forget Muller's Percival. I'm very partial to the Koenigstiger myself - I can't tell if its actually any different to your standard Imperial fast battleship (pretty much entirely concentrated amongst the Black Lancers by the time of post civil-war from what I saw), but it just looks like a beast.

[Uraniun235]

I'm not sure what it is, but there's something very appealing to me about the Rio Grande/Patroklos-class FPA fleet flagships. Part of it is those big... antennae? radiator fins?... sticking up and down.

Leda II was also a very nice FPA starship - pointier than the average FPA ship, but still in keeping with the general FPA design concept. Along those lines, I love how the exhaust fins on the Spartanians resemble those of the starships as well.

[Vympel]

I'm not sure what it is, but there's something very appealing to me about the Rio Grande/Patroklos-class FPA fleet flagships. Part of it is those big... antennae? radiator fins?... sticking up and down.

Leda II was also a very nice FPA starship - pointier than the average FPA ship, but still in keeping with the general FPA design concept. Along those lines, I love how the exhaust fins on the Spartanians resemble those of the starships as well.

One thing I've noticed about the FPA fleets, is that where the Imperial fleets are very battleship heavy, the Alliance fleets appear to be mostly cruisers. You don't see a lot of Alliance battleships apart from the flagships. There were some weird ships in the Yang Fleet first seen in the civil war arc, but IIRC they weren't seen much after that.

[Grandmaster Jogurt]

While I tend not to like the Alliance's ships as much due to their often weird angles and bulbous shapes, the Hyperion is by far my favourite of the ships in the series. It manages to capture all the FPA ship aesthetics I like while discarding everything that irritates me about them.

Other ships I like that probably don't get much love are the Ostmark and Berlin. I don't even remember what those long side-pods were for but I do remember that I liked how they look.

[Vympel]

While I tend not to like the Alliance's ships as much due to their often weird angles and bulbous shapes, the Hyperion is by far my favourite of the ships in the series. It manages to capture all the FPA ship aesthetics I like while discarding everything that irritates me about them.

Other ships I like that probably don't get much love are the Ostmark and Berlin. I don't even remember what those long side-pods were for but I do remember that I liked how they look.

Heh, those side-pods didn't seem to do anything but get shot off - both times - with the middle of the ship looking a lot like your typical Imperial battleship after that.

They seemed to be just too ostentatious-aristocrat-flagships for my liking.

[KlavoHunter]

I'm pretty certain the -point- of those side-pods was to get blown up in exactly that fashion, to let the flagship itself flee. An entirely cowardly-designed flagship!



That one Imperial flagship that I saw a couple of times that appeared to have silver worked on the outside of the vessel in a fashion to look rather like the metalworking on a fancy musket looked really cool.

[Vympel]

I wonder if the point of that design was that so once those side-pods were shot off, the ship would get lost in the crowd whilst fleeing, and couldn't be identified

I know which ship you mean with the ornate metal workings on the hull - they were in the Spiral Labyrinth Gaiden during the Bruce Ashbey battle scenes.

[Gunhead]

Imperial fleets seem to be a bit top heavy. They also have a lot of nobles in their fleets who might consider beneath them to be in anything less than a battleship.
It may be due to the translation also, but terms cruiser / battleship are sometimes used pretty vaguely. Oh well, minor details.

I do in general like ships from both sides and one the more interesting designs are seen in the history episodes where you can see what looks like a "proto" FPA ship.

-Gunhead

[Uraniun235]

One thing I've noticed about the FPA fleets, is that where the Imperial fleets are very battleship heavy, the Alliance fleets appear to be mostly cruisers. You don't see a lot of Alliance battleships apart from the flagships. There were some weird ships in the Yang Fleet first seen in the civil war arc, but IIRC they weren't seen much after that.

I think the flagships tend to be even bigger than the standard battleships. We see Imperial battleships with only around eight guns in the nose, but we also see bigger ships packing closer to twenty. So there might be Alliance "battleships" that are smaller than Patroklos or Hyperion.

[Gunhead]

One thing I've noticed about the FPA fleets, is that where the Imperial fleets are very battleship heavy, the Alliance fleets appear to be mostly cruisers. You don't see a lot of Alliance battleships apart from the flagships. There were some weird ships in the Yang Fleet first seen in the civil war arc, but IIRC they weren't seen much after that.

I think the flagships tend to be even bigger than the standard battleships. We see Imperial battleships with only around eight guns in the nose, but we also see bigger ships packing closer to twenty. So there might be Alliance "battleships" that are smaller than Patroklos or Hyperion.

There's a screencap titled "hyperion engaged" that suggest that the number of firing ports on imperial ships doesn't mean it's the number of beams they can fire at once.
There's actually three beams coming from a single port. it's on the first page, take a look.

-Gunhead

[Vympel]

Another amusing thing, there's a LOGH wiki (pretty empty for the most part) which has some nice side-view .gifs of the relevant ships.

http://yang-wenli.wikia.com/wiki/Legend ... eroes_Wiki

Some of the ship names are different. For example what the DVD rip says is the Ban-goo (WTF?) is actually Van Gogh!

http://yang-wenli.wikia.com/wiki/Van_Gogh

In the same fashion, the Kulishuna is the Krishna.

http://yang-wenli.wikia.com/wiki/Krishna

I don't know if this is actually the case though, or just an invention. It sounds right, I must say. I mean, I respell ship names myself when they're wrong.

[Darksider]

minor question. Has anyone ever done size comps for the Spartinian and Valkyrie fighters? From the series i'm getting the impression that they're slightly larger than other series fighter craft, but I really can't be sure.

[Gunhead]

minor question. Has anyone ever done size comps for the Spartinian and Valkyrie fighters? From the series i'm getting the impression that they're slightly larger than other series fighter craft, but I really can't be sure.

There were some size comparisons done on, I think it's gone now, logh discussion board and a spartanian came out at roughly 6m high 4m wide and roughly 35m long. The height and width were taken from battle at amlitzer where there is a deck officer (Toda I think) standing next to a spartanian about to be launched from the Hyperion. The length is an estimation based on the same information as we can see big enough part of the fighter to measure that then using that information to determine length of the craft.
I don't know of any calcs done on Valkyries, but overall there's a rough size parity based on some estimations done on the same forum.

-Gunhead

[MKSheppard]

Question; does LGH try to have realistic battles over control of realistic space real estate; or is it like other animus or science fiction in which there is a single zomgpoint in a solar system that must be defended or what due to Act of Plot; and everyone gravitates towards it for a battle royale?

Also; is there any real consequences for the huge battles with massive casualties? Or is it just an excuse for the main characters to act all mopey about the costs of war, oh how cruel it is I must send men to their deaths...because even in a huge universe on a big scale....losing a million trained spacers is going to have political aftereffects.

[Stark]

Why don't you just watch it rather than demand other people shoehorn it into your bizarre requirements? The scale of combat, importance of locations and politics are core to the show.

[Zor]

Also; is there any real consequences for the huge battles with massive casualties? Or is it just an excuse for the main characters to act all mopey about the costs of war, oh how cruel it is I must send men to their deaths...because even in a huge universe on a big scale....losing a million trained spacers is going to have political aftereffects.

The FPA suffers from various problems due to the fact that the navy is eating up most of the mechanically inclined individuals and there are not enough people to look after civic infastructure.

Zor

[Vympel]

Question; does LGH try to have realistic battles over control of realistic space real estate; or is it like other animus or science fiction in which there is a single zomgpoint in a solar system that must be defended or what due to Act of Plot; and everyone gravitates towards it for a battle royale?

The way their space travel works is that there's only two clear 'routes' through space to get to Alliance / Imperial territory, and the routes are narrow enough to be guarded by a fortress, so yeah, that's not particularly "realistic", but that's how FTL in the show is.

As for gravitating towards same for a battle royale, the show explicitly highlights this tendency to fight over Iserlohn Fortress as a sign of myopia and incompetence. That changes.

Also; is there any real consequences for the huge battles with massive casualties? Or is it just an excuse for the main characters to act all mopey about the costs of war, oh how cruel it is I must send men to their deaths...because even in a huge universe on a big scale....losing a million trained spacers is going to have political aftereffects.

Yes, there are real consequences. I don't know if you read the last write-up I did, but the effect of that battle on the Alliance was a total fucking disaster, and that will become more evident as time goes on. You'll note for example that the 2nd, 4th and 6th Alliance fleets didn't participate in the invasion - because Reinhard annihilated two out of three (and the 2nd was absorbed into the 13th) earlier in the year. The 11th Fleet didn't participate because Reinhard bloodied that one a year prior.

I frankly can't believe you haven't seen the show yet, given it has SPACE GERMANS.

[Vanas]

Now, I'm liking the look of the Red Army, but I've got to wonder. Looking at the Ban-Goo/Van Gogh, and given it's size, it does look somewhat under-gunned compared to the Imperial ships. Given they seem to spend most battles trying to face each other and beam the other side to slag, are these big ships really worth it? Especially the Ban-Goo, which has that bottle-neck that presumably means that whatever accellerators it's got are literally confined to that 'small' section of the front.

I appreciate we do see them firing the missiles in that same sequence, but from what's been shown, they hardly seem to be the main weapons.

[Gunhead]

Now, I'm liking the look of the Red Army, but I've got to wonder. Looking at the Ban-Goo/Van Gogh, and given it's size, it does look somewhat under-gunned compared to the Imperial ships. Given they seem to spend most battles trying to face each other and beam the other side to slag, are these big ships really worth it? Especially the Ban-Goo, which has that bottle-neck that presumably means that whatever accellerators it's got are literally confined to that 'small' section of the front.

I appreciate we do see them firing the missiles in that same sequence, but from what's been shown, they hardly seem to be the main weapons.

I'm not sure what you mean by under-gunned, but yes missiles are not the primary weapons used. This is because they can be shot down and fooled by decoys. Missiles are by what I gather medium to short range weapons that are used to amp firepower when closing on the enemy, or for long range bombardment of space fortresses.
Both sides use some form of beam weapon that have an obvious thermal effect, not railguns. Anyway, there's a rough parity between between fleets of similar size and at no point is there obvious superiority in ship design presented. There might be, but I at least from the top of my head cannot remember any example where design superiority would have been an issue or this would have been a deciding factor.

-Gunhead

[Ford Prefect]

FPA ship design is actually 'better' than Imperial design, which is why they have parity with the somewhat more advanced Empire. Imperial ship design is driven by their particular culture/society, which is really ego dominated: Imperial fleets are centred around their leaders, ships are designed for the comfort of their officers and as representative of their power etc. The FPA largely doesn't have the element of nobility driving their culture, and if they did have technological parity they would almost certainly have an advantage.

[Stark]

Does that go for fighters too? The fighters seem pretty one-sided.

[Vympel]

Whilst the design of Imperial ships is very form-focused, how do we know that if the Alliance had parity of technology their design philosophy would win out? There are no obvious flaws that I can see in Imperial capital ship design over those of the Alliance. The enlisted crew may not have as nice digs as the officers but I don't see how that's really going to effect things.