A 40K industrial hive world in Trek

[wautd]

By act of Q/warp storm, a dense populated 40K solar system (let say Tracian Primaris, including all the ships/orbital stations that were in that system at that point), suddenly finds itself in the middle of the neutral zone. What would be the most likely thing to happen? Will the hive world starve? Will it completely dominate the alpha quadrant? Other?

Discuss

[IvanTih]

It will starve without an agri-world,but again Hives also recycle food and water so I don't know,but having a ships who are superior to ST is really useful since everything that attacks them is going to be destroyed.

[Serafina]

Actually, we know that some hives can endure sieges for months or years without external supplies (e.g. Vervun-Hive). Most Hive-Worlds have their own (limited) food production, and nearly all of them have extensive recycling and supply stocks.

Regardless of that, they will probably need food from somewhere else sooner or later - more than enough reason to go and conquer other systems. That should be no challenge, given the vast superiority in both space- and ground combat.

[adam_grif]

1. Sieze local supply lines for food and raw materials.
2. ???
3. Conquer galaxy.

The only iffy proposition is long term warp travel viability. I don't know enough about that to make a judgment.

[IvanTih]

1. Sieze local supply lines for food and raw materials.
2. ???
3. Conquer galaxy.

The only iffy proposition is long term warp travel viability. I don't know enough about that to make a judgment.

They can travel,but without Astronomican(they can make mini ones If I recall correctly) they're limited to 4 ly per jump.
Warp drive isn't slow,Imperial Guard Codex(2nd edition) states that warp drive crosses 10,000ly in 10-40 days.That is a troop transport.
4.Profit

[adam_grif]

I've heard mumblings around here about places being "warp calm" if chaos isn't messing about there. I get the impression that the limits on warp travel loosen up quite a bit without that, and that the atstronomocon might not be needed. But I only know that second hand, so make of it what you will.

[IvanTih]

I've heard mumblings around here about places being "warp calm" if chaos isn't messing about there. I get the impression that the limits on warp travel loosen up quite a bit without that, and that the atstronomocon might not be needed. But I only know that second hand, so make of it what you will.

Yeah,forgot about that.
Now I assume that they travel 1k ly per day due the warp being clear.

[Gunhead]

Yes but warp is still needed for 40K vessels to go FTL even when doing calculated jumps. Does warp exist in this scenario or no? Assuming no, is Tracian Primaris a hive world where the whole planet is a covered in hives, making it toxic, nasty, grimdark, skulls and so forth. Or is it just a planet where a hive is located. If some of the planet is suitable for food production one could assume they're at least food wise pretty self reliant for extended periods of time.

-Gunhead

[Imperial528]

The Lexicanum states that this particular hiveworld is about 70% covered in hives.

[IvanTih]

I've heard mumblings around here about places being "warp calm" if chaos isn't messing about there. I get the impression that the limits on warp travel loosen up quite a bit without that, and that the atstronomocon might not be needed. But I only know that second hand, so make of it what you will.

Yeah,forgot about that.
Now I assume that they travel 1k ly per day due the warp being clear.

A correction,1k ly per day if they have Astronomican.

[xt828]

IIRC the Astronomicon is needed because there are no reference points in the Warp and due to its nature inertial navigation doesn't work so well over longish distances. Keep in mind, though, that the Tau have managed to carve out a fairly sizable empire without the use of the Astronomicon or Navigators, which tells us that keeping the jumps short makes it manageable.

At 70% of the planet covered in Hives, and typically Imperial management, I doubt they'll be anywhere close to able to fend for themselves in terms of supplies. I always got the impression that those hives which held out in sieges cut off supplies for anyone not either a noble or a soldier. That said, the Federation would jump at the chance to showcase its humanitarian-of-the-year badge.

[IvanTih]

IIRC the Astronomicon is needed because there are no reference points in the Warp and due to its nature inertial navigation doesn't work so well over longish distances. Keep in mind, though, that the Tau have managed to carve out a fairly sizable empire without the use of the Astronomicon or Navigators, which tells us that keeping the jumps short makes it manageable.

At 70% of the planet covered in Hives, and typically Imperial management, I doubt they'll be anywhere close to able to fend for themselves in terms of supplies. I always got the impression that those hives which held out in sieges cut off supplies for anyone not either a noble or a soldier. That said, the Federation would jump at the chance to showcase its humanitarian-of-the-year badge.

Tau just skim the edge between real space and warp.That's not true warp drive hence they don't require Astronomican and they're not psychic so they can't use it.

[Gunhead]

Being under siege or blockade doesn't mean all off planet supply lines are automatically cut.
Sooner or later the planet has to have access to outside resources, might take a long time but it'll happen. If the planetary governor is unwilling to accept aid from outsiders and people start to starve, well Viva la Revolution. Those 20 billion other people might not be so willing to starve to death for the emperor. So they have to accept outside help or take resources by force if FTL travel is available to them.

I think this scenario is far more interesting if there's no warp space based FTL or no warp at all. It imposes a time limit where the planetary government has to come up with a solution and this won't be another GRRAAAA!!! for t3h emp3r0rzzz curbstomp thread.

-Gunhead

[wautd]

I think this scenario is far more interesting if there's no warp space based FTL or no warp at all. It imposes a time limit where the planetary government has to come up with a solution and this won't be another GRRAAAA!!! for t3h emp3r0rzzz curbstomp thread.

-Gunhead

Since it's in the Trek universe, I automatically assumed there's no warp.

[PainRack]

Actually, we know that some hives can endure sieges for months or years without external supplies (e.g. Vervun-Hive). Most Hive-Worlds have their own (limited) food production, and nearly all of them have extensive recycling and supply stocks.

Regardless of that, they will probably need food from somewhere else sooner or later - more than enough reason to go and conquer other systems. That should be no challenge, given the vast superiority in both space- and ground combat.

And its also mentioned in Chaos:Daemons codex that hive worlds cut off from the warp die within weeks as rioting masses from lack of food emerge.

Then the nasty bits about the warp dumping daemonic energies and daemons on them appear:D

[Gunhead]

I think we need to establish how long can a hive world self sustain itself, by in universe example or by fiat. Both are about equally valid since there's so much variation between hive worlds.
How fast can they establish contact with anyone outside their system? Do people in the alpha quadrant know there's a system full of people and spacecraft?

-Gunhead

[Purple]

That would depend heavily on the hive in question.
I mean, the OP did specify the world in question. And since it seems to have 30% of it's surface free for agriculture they might be able to use that to feed at least the important part of the population. And leave the lower levels to their own fate.

[Imperial528]

Given the vastly higher amount of power that 40k worlds and ships produce, if ST ships can detect their emissions at range, then they would likely investigate.

Or they may notice the sudden anomaly, and they investigate anomalies on a weekly basis anyway.

[Sarevok]

It is pretty easy to wank written scifi to 10^nth degree. But is there actual visual evidence 40K is really that much more powerful to Trek ? Everything I had seen from Firewarrior to Dawn of War indicates they would get their ass handed to them by Starfleet.

Um yeah I am pretty sure someone will come along point out people who fight with battle axes and swords really do have teraton guns with multi AU ranges because of things in fluff like "blink of an eye=relativistic speed" and "like a sun=plasma heated to gazillion degree".

Sorry did not intend to offend anyone. Just got tired over 40K being automatically assumed to uber when everything they use look so silly and stupid it wont be out of place in a medieval battlefield.

[Black Admiral]

Well, first, you would have to prove your implicit assumption that the cinematics are higher canon than the various published materials.

Best of luck with that.

[Uraniun235]

That said, the Federation would jump at the chance to showcase its humanitarian-of-the-year badge.

Maybe. The sheer volume of food necessary would be a pretty severe burden on nearby transport resources, and the Federation isn't going to want to just give away replicator technology to a brutal regime. Although with the Romulans right there too, the situation could be complicated.

[Ghost Rider]

It is pretty easy to wank written scifi to 10^nth degree. But is there actual visual evidence 40K is really that much more powerful to Trek ? Everything I had seen from Firewarrior to Dawn of War indicates they would get their ass handed to them by Starfleet.

Um yeah I am pretty sure someone will come along point out people who fight with battle axes and swords really do have teraton guns with multi AU ranges because of things in fluff like "blink of an eye=relativistic speed" and "like a sun=plasma heated to gazillion degree".

Sorry did not intend to offend anyone. Just got tired over 40K being automatically assumed to uber when everything they use look so silly and stupid it wont be out of place in a medieval battlefield.

So demonstrate the canon by their standards, the written material, is superceded by visual material. Oh right, the self same visual material they have said is exagerrated.

Again, stop talking out your ass without any evidence dumbfuck.

[Sinewmire]

And since it seems to have 30% of it's surface free for agriculture they might be able to use that to feed at least the important part of the population. And leave the lower levels to their own fate.

I'd be very surprised if that 30% is arable in any way, it's more likely to be ash wastes and severly blighted by enormous pollution.

[Serafina]

And since it seems to have 30% of it's surface free for agriculture they might be able to use that to feed at least the important part of the population. And leave the lower levels to their own fate.

I'd be very surprised if that 30% is arable in any way, it's more likely to be ash wastes and severly blighted by enormous pollution.

Actually, the food is more likely to be grown inside the hives. Yes, it's only mushroom, algea and the like - but that IS food. Maybe not tasty, but enough to survive.

[Sinewmire]

Actually, the food is more likely to be grown inside the hives. Yes, it's only mushroom, algea and the like - but that IS food. Maybe not tasty, but enough to survive.

Ah yeh, good old Grade C Sludge Extract, it's what's for dinner for most necromundan underhivers.