How much would the Tau gain by using indirect fire weapons?

[Srelex]

Lolwut? A full squad of suits in DOW, maybe with a commander, generally offs anything in my experiance, unless you're playing on the hardest difficulty or something.

[adam_grif]

Lolwut? A full squad of suits in DOW, maybe with a commander, generally offs anything in my experiance, unless you're playing on the hardest difficulty or something.

In multi, Crisis suits were good but by no means the best. They go down FAST to concentrated fire. They were generally best if you gave them flamers and avoided direct combat, jumping over obstacles to strike at their base while their army was off fighting the rest of yours.

[Srelex]

Lolwut? A full squad of suits in DOW, maybe with a commander, generally offs anything in my experiance, unless you're playing on the hardest difficulty or something.

In multi, Crisis suits were good but by no means the best. They go down FAST to concentrated fire. They were generally best if you gave them flamers and avoided direct combat, jumping over obstacles to strike at their base while their army was off fighting the rest of yours.

True enough, I suppose. Still, they were effective if you co-ordinate them properly, at least for me. It's fun to have them bounce around the map shooting up stuff.

[someone_else]

The few times I used them they worked exactly as the tabletop. Mobile, cool, but their guns were a little sucky for a so HUGE target that occupied so much population (A squad of firewarriors had better damage potential). I also think they had some kind of cap on their nuber, and that was another bad thing.

Still, if I had to choose between crisis + railtank (horribly flimsy) and: a couple bestikroots + 2 researches that trasmute fire warriors into Imb4warriorz that shoot at a screen of distance and have decent armor... you know.
(that's with nerfed bestikroots of Soulstorm, the Dark Crusade bestikroots were even more attractive, they could go in and tank their way through anything)

[Raxmei]

Artillery could be really useful for pinning enemy forces in place during mont'ka style attacks. Prevent reinforcement with box barrage during the attack and throw up a line barrage to cover your retreat if the enemy still proves too stubborn. Should come in handy for kauyon too. Bombard the enemy force after luring it to the preferred place, save some wear on the troops who would otherwise have to go in and shoot everyone in a standup gunfight. The guns would also be decent bait for those tactics.

[adam_grif]

It's not like they couldn't use indirect fire railguns anyway. That's what the Navy's one is supposed to be when it's put into service. The only obstacle to their use like that is the turrets on the Hammerhead tanks. As it stands their elevation range is... not inspiring.

[Cykeisme]

Should come in handy for kauyon too. Bombard the enemy force after luring it to the preferred place, save some wear on the troops who would otherwise have to go in and shoot everyone in a standup gunfight.

Indeed, I'd say pre-sighted artillery fits this situation to a T.

Out of universe, I'd say it's just a matter of aesthetics.. heavy ballistic guns are the Imperial Guard's "thing".

[andrewgpaul]

It's not like they couldn't use indirect fire railguns anyway. That's what the Navy's one is supposed to be when it's put into service. The only obstacle to their use like that is the turrets on the Hammerhead tanks. As it stands their elevation range is... not inspiring.

The tank floats. If you were using it in an indirect-fire capacity you could just as well tilt the entire tank up to get the right angle.

[PainRack]

Well, Battlesuits suck in both the tabletop and DoW computer game. There must be a reason behind that.

Besides, as I said, I never read more than the Tau codex from the game, and lexicanum sin't much better. Can anyone link to some fluff about them?

They awed at by Imperium forces at every oppurtinity but seriously, every time we see them in combat against the Imperium, they die. The Last chancers had a mere squad of infantry take out at least 3 suits out of a 4 man team. And this is without exotic weapons other than a sniper rifle. The later battle with the IG "mercenaries" had multiple suits dying easily.

Ditto to the Hellhound regiment. When the Cadians were fighting off the Tau Crisis suit/Stealth suit attack, mere hellhounds supported by infantry stubbers/autocannons were enough to kill them without appreciable losses for the IG.

This ignores the time when Space marines went up against them and we learn that bog standard Power Armour is comparable in protection against Crisis suits.


So, their only real advantage in universe appears to be their mix of mobility and firepower. Assault marines don't carry their firepower and units mounting plasma guns or flamers don't have their mobility.

[Ryan Thunder]

The Last chancers had a mere squad of infantry take out at least 3 suits out of a 4 man team. And this is without exotic weapons other than a sniper rifle. The later battle with the IG "mercenaries" had multiple suits dying easily.

Ditto to the Hellhound regiment. When the Cadians were fighting off the Tau Crisis suit/Stealth suit attack, mere hellhounds supported by infantry stubbers/autocannons were enough to kill them without appreciable losses for the IG.

I guess whoever wrote that didn't bother to read the codex beforehand. Where they can, y'know, disable a Chimera on a lucky roll with their pistols and a squad of Fire Warriors ruin the shit out of light-armoured vehicles before you even bother with markerlights?

Not being as well protected as Space Marines is hardly a surprise, however.

Additionally, couldn't they just use smart missiles for indirect bombardment? Just put in bigger versions of the submunition warheads they have for the railguns.

[Srelex]

Er, if we start taking the Codex literally, than a Space Marine has a chance of failing to hit a stationary soldier three meters in front of him.

That said, IIRC in LC, at least some of the suits were deactivated when they were destroyed. Plus it's from the first-person POV of someone who's pretty clearly into the 'purify the xenos' stuff.

Then again, some books can be schizophrenic on the Tau; in Courage and Honor, the Tau disable an entire town garrison...with what is essentially a big flare. Of course, as it's an Imperium POV book, you can imagine how well they fare in other parts.

[Black Admiral]

Then again, some books can be schizophrenic on the Tau; in Courage and Honor, the Tau disable an entire town garrison...with what is essentially a big flare.

It was some kind of combined flare/sensor scrambling pulse charge - potent enough to burn out hardened sensor systems (the auspex units on the Lavrentians' Hydras) and permanently flash-blind anyone who happened to be looking the wrong way.

[Imperial Overlord]

Taking table top rules as the literal truth of the setting is silly. As for the Last Chancers, its best to keep in mind these guys are hand picked, very well trained, and totally expendable. They aren't vanilla IG

[Ryan Thunder]

Taking table top rules as the literal truth of the setting is silly.

Yeah, but when they're all you have to go on and you write something completely different, that makes you a moron.

Like that guy.

[Connor MacLeod]

Variable effects for Tau durability and such may very well reflect variation in outfitting. We know battlesuits can accept different weapons rigs (or targeting systems, or shields, or drone systems) without much trouble - it doesnt exactly stretch credulity to think they might be able to rig them with different qualities of armor (at the expense of mobility and/or offensive capability.) although that said, the fact that Crisis battlesuits are designed to be mobile heavy weapons firepower invariably means there is a limit to just how durable you can make them without sacrificing that role

[Purple]

Then again, some books can be schizophrenic on the Tau; in Courage and Honor, the Tau disable an entire town garrison...with what is essentially a big flare.

It was some kind of combined flare/sensor scrambling pulse charge - potent enough to burn out hardened sensor systems (the auspex units on the Lavrentians' Hydras) and permanently flash-blind anyone who happened to be looking the wrong way.

That sounds suspiciously like a small EMP style device, possibly a mini nuke or something similar. (but I have not read the book, just theorizing)

[Imperial Overlord]

Taking table top rules as the literal truth of the setting is silly.

Yeah, but when they're all you have to go on and you write something completely different, that makes you a moron.

Like that guy.

He didn't write "something completely different" and there's a hell of a lot more to go on than just the table top rules. There's about two decades of background material for one. He wrote a crack team of IG lead by an Inquisitor kicked Tau ass and a Deathwatch Marine with a power sword was hell on wheels. That's quite consistent with how the universe has been portrayed in most sources. Tau pulse weapons are nasty, but the IoM are the guys who come up with ammo loads like heat seeking explosive shotgun rounds that can fly around corners, shieldbreaker rounds, and hellfire rounds capable to turning Tyranids to goo and the high end laser weapons are nasty as well. Just because a guy is packing an autopistol or a las instead of a bolter doesn't mean he doesn't he can't lay down the hurt and a kill team backing the play of an Inquisitor isn't at the bottom of the list when it comes to high quality gear.

On the other hand, by table top rules a Bloodthirsty of Khorne costs about the same amount to field as a squad of Firewarriors and if you think that's how the universe is supposed to work then you're a fucking retard. The rules are the last place you look for how the universe works.

[adam_grif]

How much better than Lasguns are pulse rifles, and how do they rate to bolters? Additionally, how do other tanks in the Hammerhead's role rank against it?

[Srelex]

How much better than Lasguns are pulse rifles, and how do they rate to bolters? Additionally, how do other tanks in the Hammerhead's role rank against it?

It depends where you look; I recall reading in the latest Deathwatch RP rulebook that pulse rifles pack more punch than bolters. But regardless, I think they pretty are much depicted as being at least a slight notch above lasguns in most aspects overall. About the Hammerhead, well, it seems to be more terrain-capable than say a Leman Russ, but it's likely best comparable to Eldar vehicles, which rules wise they seem pretty similar--not sure if the fluff has provided enough for a good comparison.

[adam_grif]

Well the performance of the railgun on the HH would be the source of any firepower advantage if would have, if it had any.

[Talk738kno]

How much better than Lasguns are pulse rifles, and how do they rate to bolters? Additionally, how do other tanks in the Hammerhead's role rank against it?

It depends where you look; I recall reading in the latest Deathwatch RP rulebook that pulse rifles pack more punch than bolters.

The fluff is written by the same guy who wrote the Tau wank in the Rogue Trader books, so that comes off as no surprise.

[Raxmei]

Additionally, how do other tanks in the Hammerhead's role rank against it?

If you trust Forgeworld then Leman Russ weighs more than twice as much and moves half as fast. Russ probably has better armor. Hammerhead is consistently portrayed as a superior antitank platform but its submunition round seems more of an afterthought. I'd call it a better tank duelist and a worse infantry support tank.

As for the Falcon and Fire Prism, they're faster and can fly higher but I don't have a direct comparison of other capabilities handy.

[Ryan Thunder]

Additionally, how do other tanks in the Hammerhead's role rank against it?

If you trust Forgeworld then Leman Russ weighs more than twice as much and moves half as fast. Russ probably has better armor. Hammerhead is consistently portrayed as a superior antitank platform but its submunition round seems more of an afterthought. I'd call it a better tank duelist and a worse infantry support tank.

It also doesn't seem to be able to handle indirect fire if you exclude smart missiles and seekers.

Like other Tau hardware, it's rather specialized. They seem to have it in their heads that they can use TOW missiles for infantry support.

[Talk738kno]

6 linked Fire prisisms can "scar the surface of a distant moon" assuming earth to moon distances, any idea on calcs on that?

[Imperial Overlord]

How much better than Lasguns are pulse rifles, and how do they rate to bolters? Additionally, how do other tanks in the Hammerhead's role rank against it?

It depends where you look; I recall reading in the latest Deathwatch RP rulebook that pulse rifles pack more punch than bolters.

They pack more punch than human scale bolters. Astartes pattern bolters using vanilla ammo are harder hitting.