Wen Jiabao promises political reform for China

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Wen Jiabao promises political reform for China

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In a rare interview, aired on CNN on Sunday, Mr Wen said: "I believe I and all the Chinese people have such conviction that China will make continuous progress and the people's wishes and need for democracy and freedom are irresistible. I hope you will be able to gradually see the continuous progress of China."

He added: "In spite of some resistance I will advance within the realm of my capabilities political restructuring."

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Asked about censorship, the 68-year-old Mr Wen added: "I believe freedom of speech is indispensable for any country, a country in the course of development and in a country that has become strong." He insisted that there was freedom to criticise the Chinese government on the internet, where he said he had often seen views aired that were sharply critical of officials.

The Communist Party has ruled without opposition in China since 1949, imprisoning scores of political activists and dissidents. While China made vital economic reforms in the late 1970s to allow a more market-based economy, the Party has not yet made accompanying political reforms.

Mr Wen added the caveat that any reforms now "must be conducted within the range allowed by the constitution and the laws. So that the country will have a normal order."

The interview marks the third time in recent weeks that Mr Wen has raised the topic of political reform.

At the beginning of September, Mr Wen said on a visit to Shenzhen that "Without the safeguard of political reform, the fruits of economic reform would be lost and the goal of modernisation would not materialise". He also called for a loosening of the "excessive political control" of the Communist party.

In his speech to the United Nations General Assembly last week, Mr Wen said that "While deepening economic restructuring, we will also push forward political restructuring." In the past, the Communist party has repeatedly promised political reforms but has failed to deliver any substantive changes. The party also often uses the phrase "democracy" simply to refer to greater public participation in decision-making, without universal suffrage.

Notions in the run up to the 17th National Party Congress in October 2007 that there might be reforms were dashed when the government chose to focus on stability and security in the run-up to the Beijing Olympic games and the 60th anniversary of the founding of the People's Republic of China by Mao Zedong.

However, Mr Wen's decision to once again air the topic, and to a major international television network, may confirm that reform is back on the government agenda.

Some observers have commented that there may be a split between Mr Wen and Hu Jintao, the Chinese president, over the issue. Mr Hu has not recently mentioned any prospect of political reform.

"[Mr Wen] admitted there is inner party disagreement over political reform," said Victor Shih, a professor of Chinese politics at Northwestern University.

Nevertheless, by airing the idea of political reform in public, Mr Wen has opened up space for a debate in the Chinese media. Hu Shuli, the pioneering editor of Century Weekly, a Chinese magazine, recently argued that China "cannot wait" any longer for reforms to its political system. "The sense of personal independence is growing among our citizens, as is consciousness of their rights and the appetite for participation in current affairs," she said.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldne ... China.html

As one of the leading figure in the Chinese leadership that actually tried to push for political reforms, it's going to be a sad thing to see him stepping down in 2012.

Sadly, it seems that the conservative faction of the CCP managed to censor the interview and the speech made by Wen.
BEIJING, Friday 8 October 2010 (AFP) - Chinese web users are complaining about an apparent news blackout over a rare foreign interview given by Premier Wen Jiabao, in which he spoke about political reform and freedom of speech.

In the wide-ranging CNN interview with journalist Fareed Zakaria, Wen touched on a variety of topics often seen as taboo, while insisting that the ruling Communists in Beijing were adapting.

So far, China's tightly controlled state media have only published a commentary on Wen's interview, analysing Zakaria's interview style without once quoting the premier.

But Wen's words are not hard to find on the Chinese Internet, popping up on various homegrown Twitter-like microblogging services and sparking an outburst of posts.

"Grandpa Wen made a shocking speech about reform on CNN, but it was blocked by the country's main media outlets! Grandpa Wen, you are not fighting alone," a user named Shuyu wrote on sina.com's popular microblogging service.

"We are with you heart to heart."

Another user nicknamed Garuda wrote: "The people could not even listen to the words of their premier. Even he himself does not have freedom of speech."

In the interview aired Sunday, Wen acknowledged the difficulties of balancing the desires of China's 1.3 billion people with the need to maintain order across the vast, ethnically diverse country.

"I believe freedom of speech is indispensable for any country, a country in the course of development and a country that has become strong," Wen, who is a popular father figure in China, told CNN.

"I believe, I and all the Chinese people have such a conviction, that China will make continuous progress and the people's wishes for and needs for democracy and freedom are irresistible," he said.

"I hope that you will be able to gradually see the continuous progress of China."

China now has at least 420 million people online, giving it the world's largest web population -- a fact that Wen trumpeted during the interview.

But some web pages that carried excerpts of the interview have since been blocked. China's vast army of government censors removes any web content deemed sensitive or politically threatening.

Wen repeated to Zakaria the government line that any opening up of people's rights "must be conducted within the range allowed by the constitution and the laws".

"I often say that we should not only let people have the freedom of speech. We, more importantly, must create conditions to let them criticize the work of the government," Wen said.

"And it is only when there is the supervision and critical oversight from the people that the government will be in a position to do an even better job."

Garuda, the Sina user, wrote: "Wen's interview with CNN is like the sale of domestic commodities only for export."

On the social networking site www.my1510.cn, a user named "colourful bear" agreed, writing: "It would not be published if he had said it at home."
http://www.mysinchew.com/node/46169
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Re: Wen Jiabao promises political reform for China

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Interesting, Vice President Xi (Hu's most likely successor) is the son of a CCP official who pretty much took on dissident status in the 1980s and himself is rumored (credibly, IMO) to have views in that direction, though as a member of the princeling faction he will beholden (at least initially) to a mishmash of CCP special interest groups if and when he takes power.
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Re: Wen Jiabao promises political reform for China

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I believe it when I see it. I am sure there is nothing suspicious about this being released now, not after the worldwide outrage at the treatment of actual dissidents.
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Re: Wen Jiabao promises political reform for China

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Thanas wrote:I believe it when I see it. I am sure there is nothing suspicious about this being released now, not after the worldwide outrage at the treatment of actual dissidents.
Wen has been discussing this issue for quite some time now, and mentioned that he is facing stiff opposition in trying to make the rest of the CCP more willingly to embrace political reforms.

The issue is not about whether China will actually implement political reform, the issue is whether the more liberal-minded faction can become the dominant faction within the CCP. My main worry is that due to the recent awarding of the Nobel prize to Liu Xiaobo, the influence of the liberal faction would be weakened due to all the nationalist having the loudest noise right now.
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Re: Wen Jiabao promises political reform for China

Post by Fingolfin_Noldor »

Like Thanas said, I will believe it when I see it. The military remains one of the strongest factions within the CCP, and while they continue to bark, everything else is moot.
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Re: Wen Jiabao promises political reform for China

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Fingolfin_Noldor wrote:Like Thanas said, I will believe it when I see it. The military remains one of the strongest factions within the CCP, and while they continue to bark, everything else is moot.
Incorrect. The PLA is quite sequestered from domestic politics (hence why the PAP has taken up internal security since 1989) and is completely subordinate to the CMC. The PLA only has influence on foreign policies and even then the civilian leaderships' wishes remain paramount (see Taiwan).

The recent fracas has been speculated to be a power play followed by yet another period of detente to work things in for the leadership transition (though still a very dangerous game).
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Re: Wen Jiabao promises political reform for China

Post by Fingolfin_Noldor »

Pelranius wrote:
Fingolfin_Noldor wrote:Like Thanas said, I will believe it when I see it. The military remains one of the strongest factions within the CCP, and while they continue to bark, everything else is moot.
Incorrect. The PLA is quite sequestered from domestic politics (hence why the PAP has taken up internal security since 1989) and is completely subordinate to the CMC. The PLA only has influence on foreign policies and even then the civilian leaderships' wishes remain paramount (see Taiwan).

The recent fracas has been speculated to be a power play followed by yet another period of detente to work things in for the leadership transition (though still a very dangerous game).
That still depends on who draws support from whom. I highly doubt the military stays completely on the sidelines in a leadership transition.
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Re: Wen Jiabao promises political reform for China

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The last time I remember the military taking an active role in party politics was after Tiannamen and the conservatives had power and it looked like Jiang Zheming was going to curtail Deng Xiaoping's reforms. Deng promptly spoke to his PLA buddies and the military made a statement that the reforms must continue. The rest is history.

I am not sure how much the military will play in the CCP scramble for succession, however I would imagine that it wouldn't be a big deal as long as either side continues to give them those big increases in military spending.
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Re: Wen Jiabao promises political reform for China

Post by Zed »

It's almost as though people assume that the military isn't factionalized either.

Here's a hint: the fact that the CCP had to contact troops from the provinces in order to suppress the Tiananmen protests wasn't because there weren't any troops stationed in Beijing.
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Re: Wen Jiabao promises political reform for China

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Seems that the fight within the CCP is heating up as succession approach.
A group of 23 Communist Party elders in China has written a letter calling for an end to the country's restrictions on freedom of speech.

The letter says freedom of expression is promised in the Chinese constitution but not allowed in practice.

They want people to be able to freely express themselves on the internet and want more respect for journalists.

The call comes just days after the Chinese dissident Liu Xiaobo was awarded this year's Nobel Peace Prize.
Continue reading the main story
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Mr Liu was sent to prison for 11 years in 2009 for expressing his desire to see peaceful political change in China.

The letter's release also comes ahead of a key party meeting that is expected to promote future leaders and shape policy for the next few years.
Specific demands

The authors of the letter describe China's current censorship system as a scandal and an embarrassment.

The signatories describe the propaganda department as "invisible black hands".
Continue reading the main story
Eight demands for change

* Dismantle system where media organisations are all tied to higher authorities
* Respect journalists, accept their social status
* Revoke ban on cross-province supervision by public opinion
* Abolish cyber-police; control Web administrators' ability to delete/post items at will
* Confirm citizens' right to know crimes and mistakes committed by ruling party
* Launch pilot projects to support citizen-owned media organisations
* Allow media and publications from Hong Kong and Macau to be openly distributed
* Change the mission of propaganda authorities, from preventing the leak of information to facilitating its accurate and timely spread

The letter says: "They violate our constitution, often ordering by telephone that the works of such and such a person cannot be published, or that such and such an event cannot be reported in the media.

"The officials who make the call do not leave their names, and the secrecy of the agents is protected, but you must heed their phone instructions."

Many who signed the letter were once influential officials.

They include a former personal secretary to the revolutionary leader Mao Zedong, and a former editor of the People's Daily, the official Communist Party newspaper.

The letter, addressed to China's parliament, makes a number of proposals for change.

Censorship should be ended; restrictions on book publishing abolished, they say.

Journalists should be given protection and support when they investigate official corruption and a new media law should be drawn up to ensure they do their job responsibly, it says.

The signatories complain that people who lived in Hong Kong while it was still a British colony enjoyed more freedom than is currently allowed in mainland China.

The BBC's Chris Hogg in Beijing says open letters like this rarely produce enough pressure to change policy.

Often they get the signatories into trouble, although most of those who signed are retired or quite elderly and probably believe the authorities can't do much to harm them, our correspondent says.

Twitter users in China report that references to the letter on different internet message boards are already being deleted.

The censors appear to be doing what they always do, seeking to wipe away any traces of criticism of the party that would soil its reputation amongst ordinary people, our correspondent says.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-pacific-11529920
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Re: Wen Jiabao promises political reform for China

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This might actually be interesting. The fact is that as the years relentlessly march on, the old guard naturally continue to die off. The Long March was a LONG time ago now. Of course, the Communist Party is utterly controlled by the 'old men' at the top, who in turn TRY to structure everything under them to their own advantage; here a 'young up and coming' star might be 50 years old.

But even 50 years old means that by the time they became an adult, Deng was coming to power and the Cultural Revolution had been all but over for a decade.

This kind of 'lets very very Very VERY VERY! slowly reform' approach is, IMHO, mostly because the reform can and WILL only move at the same pace as the old people in charge die off and each new generation, each a little more liberal then the next, comes in.

This is a very Chinese long term thing, that way the old guard see their China remain until they die, and the people who replace them will then have 'their' China and so on...but its utterly out of step with the 21st century and, despite China doing their best to throttle it, how FAST information can travel in the internet age.

Its the implacable force crawling along and noticing that the ground under it increasingly making louder and louder rumbling noises. Some people like Jiabao know that they HAVE to start addressing this, that they can't live off economic growth alone as a 'pressure release valve' for the discontent forever (ESPECIALLY as it far from uniform, I am almost positive that there is a LOT more rural unrest building then we can see outside of China, hell, probably even outside of said regions, at the growing urban/peasant divide). But there are others, the old guard, who simply expect to keep standing on the front of the unmovable object with big hammers playing 'wack-a-mole' with the problems in the road if they pop up, planning to just hit harder and faster if they don't get the message...and don't realize that THAT aint going to work anymore, just because it did in 1991.
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Re: Wen Jiabao promises political reform for China

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Thing is, if they change too fast, won't they end up fucking up like the Soviets in the end of the Cold War? The long-term Chinese style seems for the better, since they have more time to properly adapt and change their structure and methods with proper planning, instead of doing it all of a sudden and cocking it all up. Sudden change in democratic reforms is all nice, but worth shit if the stability is compromised and the whole country ends up like Russia in the 90s. Haven't we heard Stas Bush going on about how despite the democracy, Russia was worse off in the 90s than it was in the later Soviet times?
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Re: Wen Jiabao promises political reform for China

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Chris OFarrell wrote:This might actually be interesting. The fact is that as the years relentlessly march on, the old guard naturally continue to die off. The Long March was a LONG time ago now. Of course, the Communist Party is utterly controlled by the 'old men' at the top, who in turn TRY to structure everything under them to their own advantage; here a 'young up and coming' star might be 50 years old.

But even 50 years old means that by the time they became an adult, Deng was coming to power and the Cultural Revolution had been all but over for a decade.

This kind of 'lets very very Very VERY VERY! slowly reform' approach is, IMHO, mostly because the reform can and WILL only move at the same pace as the old people in charge die off and each new generation, each a little more liberal then the next, comes in.

This is a very Chinese long term thing, that way the old guard see their China remain until they die, and the people who replace them will then have 'their' China and so on...but its utterly out of step with the 21st century and, despite China doing their best to throttle it, how FAST information can travel in the internet age.

Its the implacable force crawling along and noticing that the ground under it increasingly making louder and louder rumbling noises. Some people like Jiabao know that they HAVE to start addressing this, that they can't live off economic growth alone as a 'pressure release valve' for the discontent forever (ESPECIALLY as it far from uniform, I am almost positive that there is a LOT more rural unrest building then we can see outside of China, hell, probably even outside of said regions, at the growing urban/peasant divide). But there are others, the old guard, who simply expect to keep standing on the front of the unmovable object with big hammers playing 'wack-a-mole' with the problems in the road if they pop up, planning to just hit harder and faster if they don't get the message...and don't realize that THAT aint going to work anymore, just because it did in 1991.

Hell, Jiang Zemin almost stopped the economic reform of China when Deng Xiaoping was stepping down.
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Re: Wen Jiabao promises political reform for China

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Shroom Man 777 wrote:Thing is, if they change too fast, won't they end up fucking up like the Soviets in the end of the Cold War? The long-term Chinese style seems for the better, since they have more time to properly adapt and change their structure and methods with proper planning, instead of doing it all of a sudden and cocking it all up. Sudden change in democratic reforms is all nice, but worth shit if the stability is compromised and the whole country ends up like Russia in the 90s. Haven't we heard Stas Bush going on about how despite the democracy, Russia was worse off in the 90s than it was in the later Soviet times?
The problems with Russia was that it was carved up by scum and the entire democratic process was perverted. Further, the transition to a market economy was done so haphazardly and again subverted by the corrupt, that everything simply collapsed.

With China, the same might happen. Corruption is rampant. Regardless or not they ever transit to democracy, China faces rampant corruption everywhere. That is the key problem. The Chinese government on the other hand, simply uses the heavy hand to crush any dissent and the court of law is a joke. China has to fix this or they will go down the path of Russia, with or without democracy, especially if the history of Chinese dynasties is to be of any guide and some major economic disaster strikes China.
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Re: Wen Jiabao promises political reform for China

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China is in a much better position economicaly. They might very well be able to keep that going.
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Re: Wen Jiabao promises political reform for China

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Fingolfin_Noldor wrote: The problems with Russia was that it was carved up by scum and the entire democratic process was perverted. Further, the transition to a market economy was done so haphazardly and again subverted by the corrupt, that everything simply collapsed.

With China, the same might happen. Corruption is rampant. Regardless or not they ever transit to democracy, China faces rampant corruption everywhere. That is the key problem. The Chinese government on the other hand, simply uses the heavy hand to crush any dissent and the court of law is a joke. China has to fix this or they will go down the path of Russia, with or without democracy, especially if the history of Chinese dynasties is to be of any guide and some major economic disaster strikes China.
Then won't the slow and gradual approach give them more leeway to fix these problems, instead of the fast approach to instantaneous democracy that doesn't solve any of the underlying problems and might as well exacerbate them?
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Re: Wen Jiabao promises political reform for China

Post by Fingolfin_Noldor »

Shroom Man 777 wrote:Then won't the slow and gradual approach give them more leeway to fix these problems, instead of the fast approach to instantaneous democracy that doesn't solve any of the underlying problems and might as well exacerbate them?
I think personally, the more pressing issue is to introduce accountability and transparency to the system, then we can talk about democracy. Democracy isn't the panacea to corruption, if India is to be of any guide.
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