AMD 6850/6870 launching, naming scheme dumb

[Mr Bean]

This is a long running personal gripe of mine. IE card makers who can't stick to the same fucking naming scheme from generation to generation. Or worse make it actively confusing.

OK the new 6850 and 6870 details are here
http://www.tweaktown.com/news/16943/amd ... index.html

October 18, 2010.

This is the day AMD will unveil the new, now AMD branded, Radeon 6850 and 6870 cards. The 5k series was a great card for performance per watt, which has been AMD's strategy with the last generation of GPU. This generation kicks it up a few notches...

The 6870 will compete with the current 5850.

To compare: a 5850 has 1440 stream processors, 725MHz core, and uses 151W of power. The 6870 will beat the current 5850, while only using 960 stream processors, an increased 850MHz core and uses >150W power. While it uses more power, it has cut down 30% of it's stream processors and can still beat a 5850... it will be interesting to see what a full 1400+ stream processing GPU from AMD can do.

AMD Radeon 6850 and 6870 are go to launch on October 18!

AMD are using the 6870 to replace the 5770 - this is where it gets confusing. AMD are changing naming schemes... the 6870 will replace the "5770-esque" part of the market, while the new 69xx series will replace the current 58xx market-segment.

From what I've seen - it looks like AMD have shoved an NVIDIA GTX460 into a dog's face, and made them chase it - the hunt is on, AMD want that GTX460 segment and if they can pull off 5870 performance for just over 150W and $200 - they'll have it, in droves.

To repeat the new 6870 which at a glance should be the top end card is instead the new 5770, IE the medium preformance card. So the NEW top end card is called, get this the 6970!

GAAAAH!
Have these dopes learned nothing? What bizzare naming scheme are they going to use once they hit hit the 9800's? Remember them? Yeah there already was a Radeon 9800 before, so we are two generations from being at the brink of that again. And know ATI they are going to skip the 8000's entierly and jump back to I'm guessing the two digit card numbers. Who knows what Nvidia is going to do in response, maybe the new Nvidia 7999 I'm guessing.

[Edward Yee]

All I'm concerned about is if this pushes the 5830 price point down past $150... but the 6000 series are still PCI-E x16 cards right?

[Starglider]

The naming scheme is quite reasonable because;
a) The 68xx series are pin-compatible with the 58xx series and can thus use the same boards.
b) The 68xx series has roughly comparable performance to the 58xx series (slightly lower, but will be a lot cheaper). Since the 57xx series will still be on sale (supposedly later to be slightly tweaked and rebranded the 67xx series), retailers reported that this scheme would cause less confusion.

It originally struck me as silly as well but on reflection this is probably for the best for AMD's overall sales. The model numbers are irrelevant to educated consumers anyway.

All I'm concerned about is if this pushes the 5830 price point down past $150...

The 5830 is reportedly already EOLed, and for good reason, yields on the 58xx series got high enough that not many chips were binning that low and the 58xx series itself is being phased out to clear fab capacity for the 6xxx chips. I don't know why you'd have your heart set on that anyway, it has the worst performance/watt of any 5-series card and fairly bad performance/price (compared to say 2 x 5750).

but the 6000 series are still PCI-E x16 cards right?

All modern graphics cards are, excepting some ultra-low-end junk.

[Starglider]

To summarise the performance results; the stock 6850 is cheaper, faster and uses less power than even the overclocked GTX 460 cards, both individually and in Crossfire/SLI. The stock 6870 is cheaper, faster and uses a lot less power than even the overclocked GTX 470 cards, both individually and in Crossfire/SLI. The marginal Nvidia advantages in tesselation and 3D output have been removed. Eyefinity and angle-independent AA has been further improved. When factory overclocked 68xx cards become available the AMD lead will increase even more. Currently there is no sane reason to buy Nvidia in the $150-$250 range. Total humiliation of the GTX480 (and rumoured Emergency Edition GTX 580 space heater) is scheduled for next month.

[Edward Yee]

The 5830 is reportedly already EOLed, and for good reason, yields on the 58xx series got high enough that not many chips were binning that low and the 58xx series itself is being phased out to clear fab capacity for the 6xxx chips. I don't know why you'd have your heart set on that anyway, it has the worst performance/watt of any 5-series card and fairly bad performance/price (compared to say 2 x 5750).

Re: the 5830, because of the price point on Newegg compared to the 5850 or the 5870... and as for the 58xx series? Because you'd mentioned its Crossfire potential with the 59xx series.

b) The 68xx series has roughly comparable performance to the 58xx series (slightly lower, but will be a lot cheaper). Since the 57xx series will still be on sale (supposedly later to be slightly tweaked and rebranded the 67xx series), retailers reported that this scheme would cause less confusion.

Based on this, which should I go for this Black Friday?

[DaveJB]

To summarise the performance results; the stock 6850 is cheaper, faster and uses less power than even the overclocked GTX 460 cards, both individually and in Crossfire/SLI.

That's certainly a fair appraisal of the situation. However...

The stock 6870 is cheaper, faster and uses a lot less power than even the overclocked GTX 470 cards, both individually and in Crossfire/SLI.

That isn't. The stock 6870 is pretty consistently behind the GTX 470 in benchmarks (not by a huge margin in most cases, although the GTX 470 seems to have a more pronounced advantage at high resolutions), and they both seem to be priced pretty much the same at retailers. The 6870 certainly does have some advantages over the GTX 470 with better multi-monitor support and WAY lower power consumption, but I wouldn't exactly give it the victory in that comparison.

[Steel]

Beyond the obvious, what is the problem with higher power consumption (assuming you are building the machine and so can buy a psu capable of meeting the requirements)?

An extra 100W is going to mean up to a whopping £100 per year if I'm using it at full power 5 hours a day.

I know its nice from a technical sense to get the same for less, but does it deliver any immediate or tangible benefits?

[DaveJB]

It mostly comes down to heat dissipation - the extra 100W or so of power that the GTX 470 eats up has to go somewhere, and the outside blower fan can't get rid of it all. In fairness though, the GTX 470's heat dissipation wouldn't be much of a problem unless you were running two in SLI, and also had a power hungry CPU - if anything it comes down to the 6870 having very low power requirements for its class, rather than the GTX 470 being particularly power thirsty (the GTX 480, on the other hand...)

[Arthur_Tuxedo]

GTX 470's speed advantage over the 6870 is so small that only an imbecile would buy one, given the tremendous increase in power consumption, noise, and heat. AMD has totally blown a load on NVIDIA's face with these cards.