Jeremy Jackson: How We Wrecked The Ocean

[Alyrium Denryle]

This is something from TED. I want people to know why I am so depressed and misanthropic these days.

http://www.ted.com/talks/jeremy_jackson.html

I think sometimes, people dont really understand the scale of what it is exactly we are doing to our ecosphere, for example, you know that red tides and dead zones exist, but have no real notion as to the scale.

Lets take a look yes?

[Darmalus]

So...

Is there anything to be done, or was I born just in time to watch the ocean's final death throes? Between overfishing and global warming acidifying the oceans, I feel like my options are to conserve and watch everything go extinct, or participate in pillaging and watch everything go extinct.

[Ariphaos]

The ocean has gone through anoxic events before. It will survive, the question is, if we allow a major anoxic event to happen, will we.

Most of this just seems to reinforce the need for strong, rational environmental leadership. It's been nearly destroyed, and the lunatic fringe of it does not help.

[Dooey Jo]

It gets even better when you realize most of that overfishing and bottom trawling is for nothing. They routinely throw a large percentage of the fish away at sea for being too small or of the wrong kind. And then when they come to shore, some of it has to be thrown away because they couldn't sell it to a retailer, and then a third of that which they could sell is thrown away too, because the retailers couldn't sell it within the day. Then the consumers, too, throw a third away.

So they basically drag the fish out of the ocean and dump them in a goddamn landfill. It's awesome!

[Akhlut]

So...

Is there anything to be done, or was I born just in time to watch the ocean's final death throes? Between overfishing and global warming acidifying the oceans, I feel like my options are to conserve and watch everything go extinct, or participate in pillaging and watch everything go extinct.

Oh, a great deal of things will survive in the oceans. Bacteria will never go away until the oceans are boiled off by the sun in 1-2 billion years, and those bacteria will supply all sorts of filter feeders, like sponges, corals that don't use calcium carbonate, and some sorts of zooplankton that also don't use calcium carbonate. These, in turn, will feed extremely hearty sorts of fish that also happen to be economically useless. These small fish will also feed a burgeoning and, frankly, ridiculous amount of jellyfish that will come to rule the ocean. These jellyfish will possibly support sea turtles (I don't know how ocean acidification will affect sea turtles, but if it isn't too much of a problem for them, they'll be relatively okay).

However, this might be a bit of a problem, given how much the ocean supports human eating, directly or indirectly. We as a species would probably survive, but the majority of us would probably die off.

We do have options though, including dumping large amounts of base into the oceans to help balance pH. It's not exactly the best idea, but it might be able to get the job done.

[Spoonist]

Well if we get the political backing there are solutions out there. Like using mushrooms instead of plastics, also from ted.

So no need to get depressed, instead get angry and active. If pressure is put on the politicians then change can be made while there is still time.

[Erik von Nein]

While I share Aly's rather cynical view of the possibility of the world suddenly realizing "OH FUCK WHAT HAVE WE DONE FIX IT NOW", there is quite a bit to be done, just little of it is being done. Acidification is probably the worst of it, though over-fishing is all kinds is horrendous. Acidification is directly tied to the same problems we're seeing with global climate change, but look how much is being done about that bit of hell.

As far as the idea that we could somehow engineer our way out of acidification I think people forget just how massive the oceans are and how relatively puny our production ability is. It's similar to the idea of dropping in iron to stimulate algae growth, its just not feasible. That also doesn't solve the other problem connected to carbon production; that with the increase in global mean temperature there will come a not-at-all surprising rise in global ocean mean temperature.

India has outright said they have no plans to reduce carbon production and the few elements in China who genuinely seem interested in preserving the environment don't seem to have much sway. Hell, you can barely get anyone in the first world to reduce production.

[His Divine Shadow]

It gets even better when you realize most of that overfishing and bottom trawling is for nothing. They routinely throw a large percentage of the fish away at sea for being too small or of the wrong kind. And then when they come to shore, some of it has to be thrown away because they couldn't sell it to a retailer, and then a third of that which they could sell is thrown away too, because the retailers couldn't sell it within the day. Then the consumers, too, throw a third away.

So they basically drag the fish out of the ocean and dump them in a goddamn landfill. It's awesome!

It's nice that I can feel good about hating the taste of fish (well 98% of seafood) for once.

[Dooey Jo]

It's nice that I can feel good about hating the taste of fish (well 98% of seafood) for once.

Personally I only seem to hate the seriously endangered fish, like cod and tuna. They're awful.

But the same waste unfortunately applies to pretty much all products. Like cucumbers. Grown in China, much of them discarded right away for being too bent (cucumbers usually are bent) or otherwise not up to some arbitrary standard, then everything the stores couldn't sell within some time limit is thrown away (even though the cucumbers are fine, unlike the fish which actually does go bad pretty quickly unless frozen), and finally consumers throw them away too. Apparently it even applies to clothes. Clothes do not go bad.

[His Divine Shadow]

I know, my parents grow cucumbers and tomatoes in greenhouses (during the summer months only, so they're eco-friendly). There is this absurd EU cucumber classification chart hanging on the wall of the packing/storage place.

And sadly one of the few species of fish I like are tuna. I dunno where "kalles kaviar" falls on the sustainable list.

[Alyrium Denryle]

So...

Is there anything to be done, or was I born just in time to watch the ocean's final death throes? Between overfishing and global warming acidifying the oceans, I feel like my options are to conserve and watch everything go extinct, or participate in pillaging and watch everything go extinct.

There actually are plenty of things that CAN be done. The problem is that they wont be done. For example, we can largely fix dead zones, and the topsoil problem fairly readily if we design our farms smarter. Hell, we can even get sustainable aquaculture out of the deal.

Here is how you do it.

You have your farmland, most of which sits in a watershed. Use GE crops to minimize the need for watering and pesticides. You build two artificial wetlands as buffer zones between your farm land and the river system. You can do this because most farm land, at least in the mid west and plenty of other places used to be wetland anyway. The hydrology is correct.

The first wetland is wholly artificial, containing algae, emergent and floating vegetation etc. These wetlands will eutrophicate, taking up the nitrogen and other nutrients from runoff. However, you will have things eating the algae like little copepods and fish fry. One can raise catfish and cray fish in these ares for harvest, and the alge can be harvest and mulched for some of your fertilizer and topsoil replenishing, especially if you have a seasonal hydroperiod. Hell, you can even grow secondary plant crops like rice in here. The stalks and inedible parts of your crop plants can also be mulched. This even has the benefit of sequestering carbon.

The second wetland provides an even further buffer for the river system, and provides habitat for wildlife. The farmer can even be paid through wetland banking (under the no net loss provision of the clean water act relating to wetlands) to build and maintain this second buffer wetland.

[Bottlestein]

^ My state (Iowa) should start doing some of these in a major way. We have already contributed a lot of shit to the Gulf of Mexico via our feedlots and farms - we should be more responsible.

[JBG]

Sadly the results of over fishing have been obvious for some time. Not to mention the waste.

There has been some blowback, such as the cod wars, but not enough.

I am all in favour of expanded marine national parks down under, including especially protection of mangroves.