The Sarah Jane Adventures "Death of the Doctor" [Spoilers]

[Glimmervoid]

Okay, I know we don’t normally have reaction threads for The Sarah Jane Adventures episodes, but since this one has the Doctor in it, I decided to create one anyway.

I have to say, I quite liked the bird people (Shansheeth), though they do fall in to the one-race one-note Sci-Fi cliché. Even so, space undertakers are a lot more original than the standard proud warrior race. It was also nice that they did not make all the Shansheeth the same. The Claw Shansheeth of the 15th Funeral Fleet (the episodes bad guys) were evil, but it also turned out that they were just a rouge group and the good ones sent an apology.

Action was good. The child actors were okay (the Multicultural Diversity Force – I know, bad joke – always puts in a good showing). The UNIT Colonel Karim was one of the episode’s let downs (she just came across as stereotypically evil). The UNIT base was nice, or the brief gimps we got of it anyway. I can't really agree with the rocket to send the Doctor back in to space (if Earth was his adopted home then surely he should be laid to rest there), but it wasn't cringe worthy. Pacing was good. The Doctor knowing all about his ex-companions was touching. There were some very nice nods to continuity in the episode (the clips not least among them).

Overall, I have to say I quite liked this episode. I don’t normally watch The Sarah Jane Adventures, but I did watch this one and did find myself enjoying it. A solid 4/5 for me. A good, enjoyable episode if not spectacular.

For us Brits, here are the BBC iPlayer links. Part 1 and Part 2.

Finally, here are some titbits I picked up on.

• Doctor Who Earth has a moon-base, which is hidden from the public (or maybe Clyde Langer is just as dense as Donna).
• The return of Jo Grant (an ex companion), plus the mention of several more.
• The Doctor can chance race:
  (Clyde Langer: Can you change colour or are you always white?
  The Doctor: No. I can be anything.)
• The Doctor says he can regenerate five hundred and seven times (though he could just be joking).
  (Clyde Langer: Is there a limit. I mean, how many times can you change?
  The Doctor: Five hundred and seven.)

[Crazedwraith]

Well the Doctor has previously implied he doesn't even have to remain human looking. They formally done away with the 12 regen limit. That's good! Though there will be much nerd rage and squawking when it actually happens.

[Captain Seafort]

They formally done away with the 12 regen limit. That's good!

Agreed, although it's been obvious that it isn't a hard and fast rule for close to thirty years.

It was good to hear about some of the old companions, although the concept of a charity with the firepower to take on early Time War Daleks seems a bit odd, to put it mildly.

[Serafina]

Actually, the "507 regenerations" sounded more like a joke (snappy remark etc.) to me, at least from the scene where he says it. Particularly because 5+0+7=12, his current number of regenerations.
Either way, i don't thin the regeneration limit was ever something fans had to be concerned about, since BBC (or anyone else) would not throw away such good material. However, they would be doing just that by just throwing the regeneration limit out in such an off-hand line - the question "will he be able to regenerate one more time" makes for good drama, after all.


Oh, and i am a staunch defender of finally having a female doctor

[Captain Seafort]

Oh, and i am a staunch defender of finally having a female doctor

We've already had one.

[Srelex]

Wait, what? Daleks featured?

Hmm, should check out more of this show. Thought it would be a bit too kiddy, but it seems otherwise now...

[Captain Seafort]

Wait, what? Daleks featured?

No, just a passing mention of Ace running a charity.

[mr friendly guy]

Theres no way I can see it myself, since I not British so that link won't work for me. However I would like to comment on this factoid.

The Doctor can chance race:
(Clyde Langer: Can you change colour or are you always white?
The Doctor: No. I can be anything.)

Way back in the day with Outpost Gallifrey someone posted a thought experiment, would you mind having the Doctor being played by a black actor if good enough. Aside from the usual false dilemna's ( would you rather have a good white actor or a bad black actor just to be PC ) there were a few interesting comments. Namely that Time Lords can regenerate and resemble a different human ethnic group (from the novels) and when the 2nd doctor was offered new bodies in War games, one of those offered looked like a black man (I will have to that scene when I eventually get the chance). Plus also in the End of Time there were black Time Lords.

So I guess there really shouldn't be a reason (in universe) that he can't regenerate into a black Time Lord. I guess that settles that issue.

[Patrick Degan]

Theres no way I can see it myself, since I not British so that link won't work for me. However I would like to comment on this factoid.

The Doctor can chance race:
(Clyde Langer: Can you change colour or are you always white?
The Doctor: No. I can be anything.)

Way back in the day with Outpost Gallifrey someone posted a thought experiment, would you mind having the Doctor being played by a black actor if good enough. Aside from the usual false dilemna's ( would you rather have a good white actor or a bad black actor just to be PC ) there were a few interesting comments. Namely that Time Lords can regenerate and resemble a different human ethnic group (from the novels) and when the 2nd doctor was offered new bodies in War games, one of those offered looked like a black man (I will have to that scene when I eventually get the chance). Plus also in the End of Time there were black Time Lords.

So I guess there really shouldn't be a reason (in universe) that he can't regenerate into a black Time Lord. I guess that settles that issue.

Well, if "Destiny Of The Daleks" is anything to go by, recall that when Romana was regenerating, "trying on" different bodies, one of the temporary forms she had shifted into had bluish skin. Given that regeneration changes the entire physiological structure and appearance, it's sort of hard to make a case that a Time Lord is necessarily "fixed" into one ethnicity anymore than he/she is "fixed" in any other attribute.

[mr friendly guy]

Well, if "Destiny Of The Daleks" is anything to go by, recall that when Romana was regenerating, "trying on" different bodies, one of the temporary forms she had shifted into had bluish skin. Given that regeneration changes the entire physiological structure and appearance, it's sort of hard to make a case that a Time Lord is necessarily "fixed" into one ethnicity anymore than he/she is "fixed" in any other attribute.

They will just say that its "artificial" regeneration induced by TL technology and so doesn't count. Na na na *hands over ears*.
No, they really said that, never mind that regeneration was according to the novels artificially given by Rassilon, which makes much more sense than it being a natural evolved ability.

[NecronLord]

RTD (Still the producer of Sarah Jane, where he does much better) has said that the five hundred and seven is intended to be serious:

When they came [to America] to launch The Eleventh Hour, I went along to this screening in LA and journalists put their hands up, and one of the first questions was, "What will happen when he reaches the thirteenth regeneration?" There's a fascinating academic study to be made out of how some facts stick and some don't – how Jon Pertwee's Doctor could say he was thousands of years old, and no-one listens to that, and yet someone once says he’s only got thirteen lives, and it becomes lore. I'’s really interesting, I think. That's why I’m quite serious that that 507 thing won't stick, because the 13 is too deeply ingrained in the public consciousness. But how? How did that get there? It’s fascinating, it's really weird. Anyway, that'll be my book in my retirement!"

The thirteen-regeneration limit has been demonstrated in stories repeatedly, of course, mostly those involving the Master. If the Doctor does have five hundred seven (remaining?) regenerations, then one must presume something happened offscreen.

No, they really said that, never mind that regeneration was according to the novels artificially given by Rassilon, which makes much more sense than it being a natural evolved ability.

It would also easily explain the Time Lords in the War having increased that limit considerably.

[Thanas]

The Doctor knowing all about his ex-companions was touching. There were some very nice nods to continuity in the episode (the clips not least among them).

Eh....what?

[Glimmervoid]

The Doctor knowing all about his ex-companions was touching. There were some very nice nods to continuity in the episode (the clips not least among them).

Eh....what?

What precisely is confusing? But to expand on my points.

At 06:30 in Part 2 the Doctor talks for a bit about all the things Jo has done since she left him, plus some things that will happen in the future. We then get this line.

Jo Grant: So you’ve been watching me. All this time?

The Doctor: No. Because you’re right; I don’t look back. I can’t. But the last time I was dying I looked back on all of you, every single one, and I was so proud.

I found that touching.

The nods to continuity were mostly the return of an old companion, seeing the faces of various old Doctors, name dropping of several other companion and short clips from past episodes. I thought that was nice.

[Thanas]

Thanks, that explains things.

[Lost Soal]

The Doctor knowing all about his ex-companions was touching. There were some very nice nods to continuity in the episode (the clips not least among them).

Eh....what?

What precisely is confusing? But to expand on my points.

At 06:30 in Part 2 the Doctor talks for a bit about all the things Jo has done since she left him, plus some things that will happen in the future. We then get this line.

Jo Grant: So you’ve been watching me. All this time?

The Doctor: No. Because you’re right; I don’t look back. I can’t. But the last time I was dying I looked back on all of you, every single one, and I was so proud.

I found that touching.

The nods to continuity were mostly the return of an old companion, seeing the faces of various old Doctors, name dropping of several other companion and short clips from past episodes. I thought that was nice.

There was also a bit in the previous episode "The Vault Of Secrets" where they jam the transmission from a Mars probe just before it comes into view of the pyramid built by Osirus.

[mr friendly guy]

It would also easily explain the Time Lords in the War having increased that limit considerably.

Well that sounds like a neat explanation of how we can get the Doctor to continue on. The best part is, that it happened off screen.

EDIT - I would also like to add the 2nd Doctor's quote in "Tomb of the Cybermen" about how they were virtually immortal except from diseases etc. I also submit the Minyans in "underworld" having use TL technology to continue regenerating in their continual search for the race bank of their race. Also from the Five Doctors the TL offering the Master a new set of regenerations.

Putting all this together we could hazard a guess that a) TL technology can allow quite a higher number of regenerations but b) they limit this number usually to 12 (with 13 incarnations) like how the Culture citizens usually end their life at a certain time c) this limit is cultural rather than technological and it was imposed sometime after the Doctor left Gallifrey d) they may very well have taken the gloves off with regards to regeneration during the Time War.

Hey, an explanation without needing an EU novel or an episode to showcase it. I am sure those anti fan wank people will be please.

[NecronLord]

The problem with the idea of the regeneration limit being purely a social thing, is one can't explain the Master in that way; unless one says that the equipment to give extra lives past thirteen exists only on Gallifrey.

[Captain Seafort]

unless one says that the equipment to give extra lives past thirteen exists only on Gallifrey.

Eminently plausible, given the degree to which Time Lord society is centralised around Gallifrey.

[Revy]

Oh, and i am a staunch defender of finally having a female doctor

Same here, but as I said in another thread a while back, I don't think there's much chance of that as long as River Song is around. Plus someone (I think it was Moffat) said that it wasn't likely to happen because apparently each new Doctor has to be able to convince viewers that they are the same person (ie the Doctor) and he didn't think a female actor could do that

The only thing that bugged me with this Sarah Jane episode is ... what the heck happened to the rest of UNIT? Did I miss something? During the first part they are in a base full of UNIT soldiers, and come the second part of the episode the only UNIT member around is the evil commander lady working with the aliens. Where did they all go? Lunch?

[mr friendly guy]

The problem with the idea of the regeneration limit being purely a social thing, is one can't explain the Master in that way; unless one says that the equipment to give extra lives past thirteen exists only on Gallifrey.

Seems reasonable given that the TL did offer him extra lives in The Five Doctors and the Master was willing to accept their offer. He may simply not have the expertise to build his own extend regeneration device and hence had to go through convuluted plans to steal power from the Keeper of Traken and bath in some planet's technobabble fire to break the 12 regeneration limit.

[NecronLord]

The only thing that bugged me with this Sarah Jane episode is ... what the heck happened to the rest of UNIT? Did I miss something? During the first part they are in a base full of UNIT soldiers, and come the second part of the episode the only UNIT member around is the evil commander lady working with the aliens. Where did they all go? Lunch?

She sealed off the funeral wing, presumably she presented a cover story to the rest of UNIT.

[shelleybear]

The last time I wrote fan fiction was over ten years ago, but I'm working on an alternate universe that features Clyde Langer as the Doctor's most important companion.
As I see it, he and the doctor are BOTH soul-bound to the Tardis. If one is in pain or danger the other feels it.
Ditto joy and pleasure.
Under those circumstances they would HAVE to travel together.

[Catman]

Well the Doctor has previously implied he doesn't even have to remain human looking. They formally done away with the 12 regen limit. That's good! Though there will be much nerd rage and squawking when it actually happens.

Not from me, I don't give much of a shit about the 12 regen limit, and I think the "Moebius Doctors" were interesting.