Gays serve In NZDF, World doesn't end

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Gays serve In NZDF, World doesn't end

Post by Spyder »

Found an article that seemed poignant with all the DADT discussion going around.

http://www.stuff.co.nz/the-press/lifest ... -and-proud

Short version; Openly Gay and Lesbian people have been serving in the New Zealand Defense Force since 1993 and the total negative effect has been the occasional Village People joke.
As the United States continues its wrangle over the ban on gays serving openly in the military, gay and lesbian personnel from the New Zealand Defence Force talk about their lives.

Major Brendan Wood's office is heavily laden with books and art - mainly war art with medical themes, but also a portrait of the Queen Mother and a Don't Mess With Texas poster signed by George Bush Sr.

Lucas, a miniature schnauzer, sleeps on a camouflage-covered cushion in the corner. His owner considers himself "profoundly gay".

As chief instructor of the joint services health school, Wood turns new recruits from army, navy and air force into "operationally deployable medics".

"My staff relate to me as their major, their boss. I'm not their gay major, or their gay boss," he says.

In his 30-year career with the army, Wood has attended conferences with officers from American services. The notable difference is that Wood can stand alongside his partner of seven years, Gerald Johnstone, and introduce him as such.

"The reaction is quite interesting," Wood says. "It just feels so right to include your partner and I'm proud to come from a country that enables us to be who we are.

"There are people in America who dearly want to serve their country and are prevented from doing that."

What prevents military personnel from being openly gay in the American armed forces is a policy called Don't Ask Don't Tell (DADT).


DADT allows gay people to serve, but only if they keep their sexuality secret by not speaking about it and not being affiliated to any group supporting it. The policy requires servicemen and women to be discharged if they do, saying it would create an "unacceptable risk to the high standards of morale, good order and discipline, and unit cohesion that are the essence of military capability".

Before DADT, it was an outright offence. Now they just can't talk about it. Since DADT was introduced in 1993, almost 14,000 people have been discharged from American military troops under the policy.

By contrast, 1993 was the year in which the ban was lifted in the New Zealand Defence Force (NZDF), after the passing of the Human Rights Act, which prevents discrimination on grounds such as ethnicity, gender and sexual orientation.

As the act came into law, so came the removal of a passage in the NZDF manual of law that referred to homosexuality as an "unnatural offence".

Before 1993, even though the Homosexual Law Reform Act had been passed in 1986, officer training included the actions they ought to take upon the discovery of personnel caught in such "unnatural" acts.

For three decades, Wood, 48, has served his country as a reserve and fulltimer. Although, he wasn't "out" when he joined the army, signing up felt like a logical step.

"I just enjoy the company of my fellow men," he says. "I consider myself a masculine gay man. Three things that make me are my gender, my orientation and my identity. My gender is male, my orientation is profoundly gay and my identity is masculine.

"The image of a gay man in spandex on the back of a Hero parade float might exist, but the majority of gay men don't relate to that at all."

His first step in coming out was to tell his parents. An older brother had already paved the way. In fact, Wood is one of 10 siblings, four of whom are gay, including his identical twin brother, Gerard, a lieutenant colonel based in Wellington.

"Making that decision is the hardest thing, but the rest of the journey is the most empowering process. The army only wants you to fit into the team. It's about cohesion."

Wood says he had "absolutely no issue" being an openly gay man in the army, which he puts down to the combination of having a strong personality, being articulate and the fact that he works in a specialist area.

Being openly gay, Wood says he is sometimes approached by commanding officers wanting advice on how to react when a subordinate comes out or by newly enlisted people wondering about the best way to break their news to colleagues.

For these reasons, and because the services seem to love acronyms, the DEFGLIS NZ (Defence Force Gay and Lesbian Information Service) is being formed and will be set up by Christmas. Officers involved hope the support network will act as a sounding board, advice group and social network for regular, reserve and civilian members of the troops.

Part of the group's role will be to advise on using inclusive words such as partner instead of wife, or letting people know that a saying such as "that's gay" has made it into common parlance while the term "homo" is offensive.

"It's refreshing to see young people entering the forces already out, but for people of our vintage, we kept it a secret," Wood says.

One who kept it a secret, even from himself, was Kevin Sanderson. From the mid-1970s, Sanderson was a Balclutha high-school chemistry teacher with interests in amateur theatre and badminton.

But he wasn't gay.

These days, he is an openly gay lieutenant commander at Defence Headquarters in Wellington. He doesn't even mind In the Navy jokes.

While he was completing a PhD at the University of Otago, a poster seeking volunteer naval reserves caught his eye. In 1989, he joined the ranks as a junior officer, going full time in 1996.

"But I still wasn't gay," he says.

The "real decider" was a six-week trip around the world in 2002, which culminated with a week in Thailand. Navy buddies encouraged Sanderson to put the red-light district of Patpong on a must-do list.

"So there I was in this bar, surrounded by three lovely young ladies and one of them slid her hand up my trousers. There was no reaction whatsoever and I thought: 'Hm, this isn't good'. So I went to a boy bar and things did happen. That decided it. I finally admitted it to myself."

He says he was "cautious but not worried" about revealing his sexuality to colleagues, choosing to tell more conservative colleagues in the company of more liberal people.

With some people, Sanderson cushioned the information, perhaps using the term "partner" for a while, then dropping in the specific pronoun "he".

"I spent 25 years playing it straight. Now I wear a purple-going-pink shirt, but I don't walk around waddling my bum.

"If someone tells a gay joke, you laugh if it's funny. If it's offensive, you tell them. But I'm not some new boy on the block. I was 45 when I came out."

Sanderson's post is land based, but he knows another openly gay naval officer in a mid-career position who spends much of his time at sea.

"Every time he goes out, he is approached by three or four guys asking if it's safe to be gay in the navy. He tells them it is, but they just have to be prepared for a nickname and a bit of ribbing.

"Let's be honest, there have been aspersions cast on the navy for years. You just ask the army people."

When asked what he thinks of the United States' Don't Ask Don't Tell policy, he speaks of fear and regret.

"My only regret is that I didn't accept myself until later in life. But the positive side is that my partner and I came out late, so we avoided the seedier side and being pushed underground. We missed the stigma.

"I know what it's like to be a closet gay within a defence force that has a positive policy, so I was able to operate with no implications if anyone found out. But in the American system there would have been no way I could have belonged to the gay choir or be seen at a mardi gras. You'd shut your whole life down.

"The thing that makes you come out is how sick and tired you get of wearing a front, no matter if you've had two wines or five.

"It takes so much energy to always be on your guard not to give anyone a hint that you weren't one of the good old heterosexual community."

It was the structure, discipline and travel offered by the air force that lured Flight Sergeant Annette Walding to join up 22 years ago.

Back then, Walding lived in barracks on the Whenuapai base near Auckland where she heard rumours that a couple of the women were gay.

"I wasn't gay at the time, but I know it was thought of as inappropriate."

Today, the 41-year-old works in the "safety and surface" trade, which is an air force way of saying she looks after equipment like parachutes and life rafts.

She has what the services refer to as a "recognised relationship" with her partner of nine years, who is also in the air force.

However, like other gay officers who spoke to Your Weekend, Walding moderates her behaviour in the company of fellow servicemen and women.

"I am a little bit wary. I don't want to do anything to make other people uncomfortable because it may not be the norm for them. I wouldn't expect a male and female to have a great big passionate kiss in front of people, so I don't."

Before realising she had feelings for females, Walding was married but kept it under her hat for three years of "internal turmoil".

"Then I vividly recall thinking, 'I've had enough, I want people to know', so I went to my boss at the time and told him. He came around my side of the desk, gave me a great big cuddle and said, 'You are who you are and that's all that matters'.

"From there on, it was 'phew'. It wasn't like I went out of his office and started waving a rainbow flag with 'I hate men' on my forehead. People ended up knowing by osmosis.

"The biggest fear is people worrying what other people will think. Well, who gives a s..., really? It's a significant decision, but once you get over that, you won't have to live a lie for the next however many years."

Flight Lieutenant Stu Pearce lives on the Whenuapai base with his partner, Dave Fenwick.

The pair transferred from England, where they were both part of the Royal Air Force.

Pearce, 34, came out to close friends in 2000, the same year it became legal to be gay in the British military, but like many others, he kept his sexuality on the down-low at work.

"But I wanted the company of people who were the same as me, so I would drive to one of the nearby cities, sit in a gay bar and shake quietly to myself, drink too much Diet Coke, and drive home again."

Pearce and Fenwick began to think about an overseas move, but wanted to be confident they would be accepted as a gay couple.

"So we went to a Kiwi recruitment drive. If we sensed any resentment or negativity at that stage, we'd have taken it as a sign. It was slightly nerve-racking, but we were happy with the reception we got."

The couple have been living on base for four years and are part of that community.

"We don't have children's toys on the front garden and the usual signs of a happily married couple, but in the main, it's no big deal.

"The key thing that weighs on our mind is that we are different. Around our close friends, we're pretty open, but at bigger events, we don't want to rock the boat too much.

"The serving gay community tends not to stand out."

However, on a trip recent trip back to England, Pearce says he has noticed a huge shift in attitude.

"I'd left a homophobic and hostile environment and I came back to an environment where a gay couple living in married accommodation on base were throwing a barbecue and no-one batted an eyelid."

He believes the NZDF will greatly benefit from DEFGLIS. "There are people in the defence force who are undoubtedly coming to terms with their sexuality and going through feelings of isolation and self-doubt.

"I'm not picking a fight between air force, army and navy. In the air force, we do deploy and go overseas, but we have specific and technical tasks to do.

"With the army, there is a lot more of a macho bravado. There's this perception that if you're homosexual, you're a wimp or less strong. I think that might be more prevalent in the army than the air force, but in terms of career, I have no doubts whatsoever.

"When all is said and done, we're servicemen and women first and foremost. The fact we're also gay makes no difference to how well we do our jobs."

Posters in the gatehouse at Burnham Military Camp remind personnel and visitors to keep secrets for the sake of Queen and country.

"Don't drink and drivel," one poster says.

But a military secret that no longer has to be kept is an officer's sexual orientation.
I can't help but wonder what a person that seethes with rage at the thought of repealing DADT would think of this article. Would they read about these people living normal lives as servicemen/women and think "no, this is wrong, change it back!"?
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Re: Gays serve In NZDF, World doesn't end

Post by mr friendly guy »

They would be thinking American exceptionalism. That words seems to cop up when we have these discussions.
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Re: Gays serve In NZDF, World doesn't end

Post by Spoonist »

There has been articles like this one popping up for years. So they most probably just ignore them. Pretending they don't exist.

Here is the liist of militaries that let gays serve openly. Some are tricky though like Russia. While the rules say you can I definately would recommend staying firmly in the closet there.

Note that a supermajority of NATO countries has gays serving openly...
Albania
Argentina
Australia
Austria
Belgium
Bermuda
Canada
Colombia
Czech Republic
Denmark
Estonia
Finland
France
Germany
Ireland
Israel
Italy
Lithuania
Luxembourg
Malta
The Netherlands
New Zealand
Norway
Peru
Philippines
Poland
Romania
Russia
Slovenia
South Africa
Spain
Sweden
Switzerland
Taiwan
United Kingdom
Uruguay
Also as a side note the daily show had an excellent spoof recently about this.
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Re: Gays serve In NZDF, World doesn't end

Post by Shroom Man 777 »

Hey, the Philippines! Represent!

Strange as we are a very Catholic country, yet somehow gays are everywhere here and like Filipino comedy is all about gays.
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Re: Gays serve In NZDF, World doesn't end

Post by Ritterin Sophia »

So what? What's the purpose of telling us something we already know? I don't know any people on SDN who oppose gays serving in the military. So the only purpose I can see for this is to make an echo chamber thread.
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Re: Gays serve In NZDF, World doesn't end

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General Schatten wrote:So what? What's the purpose of telling us something we already know? I don't know any people on SDN who oppose gays serving in the military. So the only purpose I can see for this is to make an echo chamber thread.
Don't be a dick, we got plenty of DADT threads and this is relevant to that discussion.
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Re: Gays serve In NZDF, World doesn't end

Post by Ritterin Sophia »

Thanas wrote:Don't be a dick, we got plenty of DADT threads and this is relevant to that discussion.
Yeah and those threads actually involve news regarding repealing DADT. This, however, is not. It adds nothing new, unless you're one of those people who are deluded enough to believe anyone is left on SDN willing to debate against repealing DADT. The only function this thread serves is to tell us what we already know, the DoD and the Legislative Branch are being a bunch of douchenozzles by not repealing the policy and allowing gays to serve openly, in which case the time you used posting it is better spent posting this article in a place where there are people you can persuade. If I had not said anything all that would have occurred was everyone would've nodded their heads in agreement about something we already believe is true and nothing of value would come out of it. It's about as useful as me posting in SLAM 'Study Finds Homosexuals Aren't Hardwired to Rape Children'. :lol:
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Re: Gays serve In NZDF, World doesn't end

Post by hongi »

Part of the group's role will be to advise on using inclusive words such as partner instead of wife, or letting people know that a saying such as "that's gay" has made it into common parlance while the term "homo" is offensive.
'That's so gay' is so common now that I wasn't even aware that gay people took offense to it until I read it on a forum. What's the correct etiquette here?
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Re: Gays serve In NZDF, World doesn't end

Post by tim31 »

I avoid using the expression myself, though plenty of people I know IRL will blurt it out; we have a closeted guy in our office and I can't help but wonder if that's what's keeping him in there.
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Re: Gays serve In NZDF, World doesn't end

Post by Thanas »

General Schatten wrote:
Thanas wrote:Don't be a dick, we got plenty of DADT threads and this is relevant to that discussion.
Yeah and those threads actually involve news regarding repealing DADT. This, however, is not. It adds nothing new, unless you're one of those people who are deluded enough to believe anyone is left on SDN willing to debate against repealing DADT. The only function this thread serves is to tell us what we already know, the DoD and the Legislative Branch are being a bunch of douchenozzles by not repealing the policy and allowing gays to serve openly, in which case the time you used posting it is better spent posting this article in a place where there are people you can persuade. If I had not said anything all that would have occurred was everyone would've nodded their heads in agreement about something we already believe is true and nothing of value would come out of it. It's about as useful as me posting in SLAM 'Study Finds Homosexuals Aren't Hardwired to Rape Children'. :lol:
I see being nice apparently has no impact on you. So here goes - Shut up. Believe it or not, we actually get newbies on this board who might not have the vast knowledge about gays in the military you have. But I guess that thought never entered your head, did it? So again, you better shut up right now before you make more of an ass out of yourself.
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Re: Gays serve In NZDF, World doesn't end

Post by SilverWingedSeraph »

hongi wrote:
Part of the group's role will be to advise on using inclusive words such as partner instead of wife, or letting people know that a saying such as "that's gay" has made it into common parlance while the term "homo" is offensive.
'That's so gay' is so common now that I wasn't even aware that gay people took offense to it until I read it on a forum. What's the correct etiquette here?
It's a tricky one, really. I myself am bisexual and sometimes I say it without thinking. I have a lesbian friend who also, when she's offended by something, exclaims "That's gay!", and yet I've met other gay people who are offended by it.

Me, I try to avoid saying it, but sometimes I slip, because... well, it has become pretty common parlance, yeah.
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Re: Gays serve In NZDF, World doesn't end

Post by HarrionGreyjoy »

I *never* use "gay" in any sort of negative connotation, but having grown up in Texas I may be just a tad oversensitive to anything that might connote homophobia.
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Re: Gays serve In NZDF, World doesn't end

Post by TithonusSyndrome »

Yeah, I bet everyone thought there was no harm in calling the Vietnamese "gook" and "zipperhead" in most of the US army camps in South Vietnam, and then all of a sudden My Lai happens and you've got Dennis Bunning explaining that the American soldiers didn't consider the Vietnamese to be human. Gee, what a shock; if you create a culture of constant dehumanization and inferiorization of another group, those notions actually start to gain traction in the minds of the people immersed in that culture. Go figure.
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Re: Gays serve In NZDF, World doesn't end

Post by Alyrium Denryle »

I consider it to be more annoying than offensive. It is just so common that the younger gays have started using it without noticing what the connotations are. Young people who are not homophobic at all may use "thats gay" and the F word, without actually thinking about what it means, then the older gay guy (my friend Mike), will become offended and I have to explain to the young straight guy that Mike grew up gay in the 90s.
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Re: Gays serve In NZDF, World doesn't end

Post by FSTargetDrone »

hongi wrote:'That's so gay' is so common now that I wasn't even aware that gay people took offense to it until I read it on a forum. What's the correct etiquette here?
I hear that phrase used by one group almost exclusively: dumbass teenagers.

Really, what adult ever uses those words? If the individual is a homophobe, the language will be stronger.
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Re: Gays serve In NZDF, World doesn't end

Post by mingo »

One thing I haven't seen mentioned is that DADT was seen as the end of the republic under, when he instated it, by the same people trying so hard to keep it now. Granted it's been used against it's intent, but still, this was supposed to turn our military into "The Birdcage" according to the closet queen Republitards.
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Re: Gays serve In NZDF, World doesn't end

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General Schatten wrote:Yeah and those threads actually involve news regarding repealing DADT. This, however, is not. It adds nothing new, unless you're one of those people who are deluded enough to believe anyone is left on SDN willing to debate against repealing DADT. The only function this thread serves is to tell us what we already know, the DoD and the Legislative Branch are being a bunch of douchenozzles by not repealing the policy and allowing gays to serve openly, in which case the time you used posting it is better spent posting this article in a place where there are people you can persuade. If I had not said anything all that would have occurred was everyone would've nodded their heads in agreement about something we already believe is true and nothing of value would come out of it. It's about as useful as me posting in SLAM 'Study Finds Homosexuals Aren't Hardwired to Rape Children'. :lol:
Do you have anything constructive to add to this thread? If all you want to do is complain, the Venting Thread is open for that sort of material.
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