How fast is Tau railgun?

[IvanTih]

Is there any fluff or BFG mechanics(I know it's game mechanics) which can be used to give out speed of it and how fast are infantry and battlesuit versions?

[Srelex]

Fast enough to liquify everyone inside a tank by going in one way and out the other, if I remember the codex correctly. Don't think there's ever been any real specification.

[Serafina]

Is there any fluff or BFG mechanics(I know it's game mechanics) which can be used to give out speed of it and how fast are infantry and battlesuit versions?

Most definitely hypersonic (multiple times the speed of sound). AFAIK, there is nothing to give a more precise speed.

[IvanTih]

I remember that there is a info in Andy Hoare that says that Tau hypervelocity rounds stronger than the Imperium's weapons or something like that.
Since it's written by Andy Hoare I assume that is a Tau wank.

[Srelex]

Depends which Imperium weapons in specific.

[IvanTih]

Depends which Imperium weapons in specific.

In "Rogue Star" Lucian specifically remarks that the Tau "hypervelocity" railgun is in advance of anything similar the IOM uses.
Seems like another Tau wank.

[Srelex]

Could be just ignorance on part of the character. After all, it'd probably look flashy and impressive to someone unfamiliar with the itself.

[SAMAS]

Depends which Imperium weapons in specific.

In "Rogue Star" Lucian specifically remarks that the Tau "hypervelocity" railgun is in advance of anything similar the IOM uses.
Seems like another Tau wank.

Or they could just be, ya know, extrapolating from the rulebooks.

At 72'', S10, AP1, the Railgun is better than the comparative weapons in the Imperial Guard and Space Marine arsenals. Yes, they have weapons that are just as strong or stronger, but they're all mounted on Superheavies and Titans.

And besides, this is 40K. EVERYTHING is wanked.

[Black Admiral]

I remember that there is a info in Andy Hoare that says that Tau hypervelocity rounds stronger than the Imperium's weapons or something like that.
Since it's written by Andy Hoare I assume that is a Tau wank.

It's referring to ship-mounted railcannon, and my assumption there (leaving aside the general wonkiness of space combat as portrayed in teh Rogue Trader duology) is that Lucian Gerrit - whose perspective that assessment is from - is an utter pillock who doesn't know very much about what he's talking about; an assessment that, taken overall, the text happens to support.

[IvanTih]

Depends which Imperium weapons in specific.

In "Rogue Star" Lucian specifically remarks that the Tau "hypervelocity" railgun is in advance of anything similar the IOM uses.
Seems like another Tau wank.

Or they could just be, ya know, extrapolating from the rulebooks.

At 72'', S10, AP1, the Railgun is better than the comparative weapons in the Imperial Guard and Space Marine arsenals. Yes, they have weapons that are just as strong or stronger, but they're all mounted on Superheavies and Titans.

And besides, this is 40K. EVERYTHING is wanked.

And you do know that game mechanics aren't accurate representation of the fluff?

[Simon_Jester]

Ivan, that doesn't make sense. The point is that the tabletop rules make the Tau railgun one of the best antitank weapons in the game, discounting superheavies. Relative to other Imperial weapons built to the same scale, it really is a superior weapon on the tabletop.

It is not unreasonable to posit that a similar superiority applies to naval guns, though there's no compelling reason to assume that.

Though, to asnwer your question...

How do I know that game mechanics aren't an accurate representation of the fluff? Because one Space Marine in standard kit isn't worth five Imperial guardsmen in standard kit, let alone ten.

[SylasGaunt]

It's depicted as damn nasty in fluff as well. I seem to remember a few blurbs about it smashing Leman Russ tanks up real good.

[Ryan Thunder]

Wait a minute, didn't Andy Hoare invent the Tau? Am I confusing him with someone else?

EDIT: And yeah, if that quote is referring to starship weaponry, it's actually specifically mentioned that the Tau use batteries of railguns because they're individually inferior to the Imperium's macro-cannons in terms of firepower.

[Raxmei]

BFG has this to say on the topic:

Railgun Batteries
Railguns of the size mounted on warships
require massive amounts of energy to fire
despite Tau superconductors. Because of this,
power is routed to a single barrel at a time. The
sequence is timed to ensure the first barrel is
reloaded before it is charged again. Railguns
function as standard weapons batteries.

A Note on Tau Weapon Configurations
Tau rail gun and lance batteries are extremely
sophisticated with advanced targeting
systems that allow several individual
weapons to engage each designated target
regardless of their relative positions on the
Tau ship. Where individual turrets and
batteries may be relatively weak, combining
firezones in this manner make Tau railguns
and ion cannons fearsome prospects,
especially in forward firing arc, where turrets
from all over the vessel can combine against
a single enemy vessel or squadron.

Doesn't seem outstandingly useful.

[Lord Relvenous]

Andy Hoare has space combat occurring at a distance of single digit kilometers. I tend to disregard most of what he has to write if even remotely contradicted elsewhere.

[SAMAS]

In "Rogue Star" Lucian specifically remarks that the Tau "hypervelocity" railgun is in advance of anything similar the IOM uses.
Seems like another Tau wank.

Or they could just be, ya know, extrapolating from the rulebooks.

At 72'', S10, AP1, the Railgun is better than the comparative weapons in the Imperial Guard and Space Marine arsenals. Yes, they have weapons that are just as strong or stronger, but they're all mounted on Superheavies and Titans.

And besides, this is 40K. EVERYTHING is wanked.

And you do know that game mechanics aren't accurate representation of the fluff?

No, they're not an accurate representation, but they are a representation nonetheless. If Weapon A is depicted in the 40K game as being more powerful than Weapon B, if anything the gap in strength in the 40K universe will be even greater.

And railguns in fluff and novels have been described as damn near ignoring the armor of Imperial tanks, and in the cases where they achieve total penetration (in one end out the other), the vehicle's crew and passengers are consistently depicted as following soon afterwards in a state usually matching the description of Pace(C) Picante Sauce.

[Darth Hoth]

I remember that there is a info in Andy Hoare that says that Tau hypervelocity rounds stronger than the Imperium's weapons or something like that.
Since it's written by Andy Hoare I assume that is a Tau wank.

Why are people for some reason so dead on putting down Andy Hoare of all the authors that write the Warhammer books? I read the first Rogue Trader book, and all right, it is at least as bad as most SW EU, but then I have also read worse in the same setting (Ian Watson or Ben Counter spring to mind; I have avoided the infamous Goto). He is a half-assed author writing in a series/setting famous for its half-assed authors, who are usually also games developers who happen to get published by their own company as extras (which - surprise - is what Hoare is, as well). But when you read message boards, you can often hear people say things to the effect of "Oh, it's Andy Hoare who wrote it, then it doesn't count."

As well, I never quite understood all the hatred for the Tau either. So, all right, their aesthetics look like generic Japanese robots crap, and they serve some lame Greater Good. They are still nowhere near as stupid or offensive to logic as, for example, Orks or Tyranids, neither of which people seem to have much of a problem with. Why is it always "lol Tau wank" whenever the Tau are good at something, but not "lol Imperium wank" when something like bolters or starship lances are stupidly powerful, or "lol Tyranid wank" when their biowank shows up?

My own "side" in the Warhammer universe is the Guard (a leftover from my gaming days), and I have not played a game since 3rd Ed, so I cannot say I really have that much stake in the question, but still, why do some people so go out of their way to demean the Tau every chance they get?

[Srelex]

My own "side" in the Warhammer universe is the Guard (a leftover from my gaming days), and I have not played a game since 3rd Ed, so I cannot say I really have that much stake in the question, but still, why do some people so go out of their way to demean the Tau every chance they get?

Because they feel that the Tau 'get it lucky' or something like that with contrivences nullifying Imperial and Tyranid attacks, or something like that. Kinda understandable, but IMO it's been balanced out by the hammering the Tau have taken from Orks and other things in more recent fluff. I personally like the look of the Tau and feel they're an interesting addition to 40k now; seemingly a utopia that's got quite a lot of skeletons in its closet, literal in some cases. Quite a nice variation on the grimdark stuff that's not all 'RAR SOULS BE EATEN SKULLS BLOOD RAR'!

[Black Admiral]

Why are people for some reason so dead on putting down Andy Hoare of all the authors that write the Warhammer books?

Andy Hoare's writing is frankly atrocious when it comes to space combat or the Tau. Kept away from those, he's competent, if at best uninspired and possessed of what I can only regard as dubious choices of subject matter (see: Hunt For Voldorius - the Raven Guard sections are good enough (and Captain Shrike's awesome), but the White Scars (and their whole "Mongols IN SPAAAAAAAACE!" theme) have never particularly grabbed my interest).

why do some people so go out of their way to demean the Tau every chance they get?

For me, I feel that the Tau were an ill-conceived addition to the universe who far too often get treated as full-blown Incorruptible Pure Pureness so much better than teh stoopid Imperium (and the breathless praise heaped on their tech annoys me also). That, and their victories require their opponents to hold enormous idiot balls & act immensely out of character (the Raptors spending almost the whole campaign sitting in orbit playing with their augmented dicks in IA3, for example).

[Srelex]

For me, I feel that the Tau were an ill-conceived addition to the universe who far too often get treated as full-blown Incorruptible Pure Pureness so much better than teh stoopid Imperium (and the breathless praise heaped on their tech annoys me also).

So how comes the Tau are shown as conniving bastards who murder and subvert nearly every time they've appeared?

That, and their victories require their opponents to hold enormous idiot balls & act immensely out of character (the Raptors spending almost the whole campaign sitting in orbit playing with their augmented dicks in IA3, for example).

The Tau losing most of their brain cells in Courage and Honor makes up for that iMO.

[Black Admiral]

For me, I feel that the Tau were an ill-conceived addition to the universe who far too often get treated as full-blown Incorruptible Pure Pureness so much better than teh stoopid Imperium (and the breathless praise heaped on their tech annoys me also).

So how comes the Tau are shown as conniving bastards who murder and subvert nearly every time they've appeared?

It's a matter of tone and perception, I admit; from my perspective the Tau honestly come off as far too nice (irrespective of their actual actions, that's what the tone comes off as).

That, and their victories require their opponents to hold enormous idiot balls & act immensely out of character (the Raptors spending almost the whole campaign sitting in orbit playing with their augmented dicks in IA3, for example).

The Tau losing most of their brain cells in Courage and Honor makes up for that iMO.

It doesn't. The Tau have the threats of the Vae Victus, Arx Praetora squadron and the Pavonis SDF to worry about and who can interfere with any bombardment mission. In IA3 the Imperium hold utter orbital supremacy over Taros, the Raptors have rocked up in the battlebarge War-Talon (a specialised planetary attack platform and one of the most potent warships in 40k anyway) and they're a Chapter well-known for being given to impulsive actions. What reason do they have not to start bombing the shit out of the Tau again?

And that doesn't even get into their utter refusal to actually do anything that isn't specifically asked of them (where's the infamous Astartes initiative and autonomy).

[Srelex]

It's a matter of tone and perception, I admit; from my perspective the Tau honestly come off as far too nice (irrespective of their actual actions, that's what the tone comes off as).

Well, IU, they would want you to think them nice, given that they are more concerned about their image than...virtually everyone else.

It doesn't. The Tau have the threats of the Vae Victus, Arx Praetora squadron and the Pavonis SDF to worry about and who can interfere with any bombardment mission. In IA3 the Imperium hold utter orbital supremacy over Taros, the Raptors have rocked up in the battlebarge War-Talon (a specialised planetary attack platform and one of the most potent warships in 40k anyway) and they're a Chapter well-known for being given to impulsive actions. What reason do they have not to start bombing the shit out of the Tau again?

And that doesn't even get into their utter refusal to actually do anything that isn't specifically asked of them (where's the infamous Astartes initiative and autonomy).

Perhaps the Tau had holed up in the cities or something? I haven't read the book, so forgive me if I'm talking out of my ass. Besides, in C&H, I got the impression that the Tau didn't even bother with orbital survelliance, or even tactical strikes, which they certainly had windows to perform. EDIT:Hell, in DOW a precision strike happens to be a Tau special ability.

[Darth Hoth]

Why are people for some reason so dead on putting down Andy Hoare of all the authors that write the Warhammer books?

Andy Hoare's writing is frankly atrocious when it comes to space combat or the Tau. Kept away from those, he's competent, if at best uninspired and possessed of what I can only regard as dubious choices of subject matter (see: Hunt For Voldorius - the Raven Guard sections are good enough (and Captain Shrike's awesome), but the White Scars (and their whole "Mongols IN SPAAAAAAAACE!" theme) have never particularly grabbed my interest).

Well, from that one novel I can see why pro-Warhammer Vs debaters dislike his space combat at any rate . . .

Why is his Tau writing horrible? That would be the Codex, I assume, and it was a while ago I bought my last game book.

For me, I feel that the Tau were an ill-conceived addition to the universe who far too often get treated as full-blown Incorruptible Pure Pureness so much better than teh stoopid Imperium (and the breathless praise heaped on their tech annoys me also). That, and their victories require their opponents to hold enormous idiot balls & act immensely out of character (the Raptors spending almost the whole campaign sitting in orbit playing with their augmented dicks in IA3, for example).

Well, their tech is superior to Guard fare. In my experience, praise tends to be heaped on stuff like Space Marine tech, too. Or Eldar, or even the Navy . . . Warhammer is a pretty hyperbolic universe much of the time.

The IA series is, again, books I do not own (even less essential than Codex, and hardback rulebooks are poisonous to my wallet, especially at GW prices). What are the more precise circumstances? What kind of campaign was being fought, and more exactly how were the Space Marines (and presumably IG?) stupid?

[Black Admiral]

The IA series is, again, books I do not own (even less essential than Codex, and hardback rulebooks are poisonous to my wallet, especially at GW prices). What are the more precise circumstances? What kind of campaign was being fought, and more exactly how were the Space Marines (and presumably IG?) stupid?

Perhaps the Tau had holed up in the cities or something? I haven't read the book, so forgive me if I'm talking out of my ass.

Just covering this specifically for now, IA3 is the Taros Campaign - basically, desert warfare trying to throw the Tau off a former Imperial world. Two companies of the Raptors Chapter, with the battlebarge War-Talon, are the campaign's Astartes element, and they do virtually nothing throughout the whole thing. They're involved in the initial landings (knocking out orbital defence sites) and at the very end (stopping the Tau's strike at the evacuating Imperial forces); and between that, sit in orbit playing with their augmented dicks - not using the War-Talon to strike at surface targets or support the Navy contingent against the Tau forces raiding their supply lines, not aiding the Guard forces in any way, just sitting there doing nothing unless asked to specifically. And that from a Chapter known for its independence and tendency to impulsive actions.

There are other problems (the Imperial forces landing, effectively, in the middle of nowhere, and not going for the water processing station they later target as a first priority, for two), but the OOC Raptors I find particularly annoying.

There are problems aplenty in the other IA books I've read too (particularly hilarious being the annotated illustration of a Krieg Death Rider in IA6, with the annotations describing the Death Rider's sword as a thick, straight-bladed thrusting weapon - when the illustration has a curved, slashing sword).

[Imperial Overlord]

Hoare's space combat is wretched, minimalistic, and full of Tau wank but those aren't his only sins. He's also totally inconsistent with the rest of 40K's space fluff and game mechanics. Every other piece of 40K game mechanics and background material has combat occurring over tens of thousands of kilometers or more and isn't nearly as . . . generous to the Tau when it comes to the capabilities of their vessels. And Hoare's novels are well after this has been established. It's the wild veering into the silly and away from the established universe that people object to.

As for the Tau, I know a lot of people hate them for their initial "shiny awesome" start and for taking away the Guard's position as the army of massed infantry and overwhelming firepower. Sure the IG also has lots of vehicle options, but the Tau pushed the IG out of one of its niches and they don't like it.

Lastly, Tau wankers and fanboys tend to be annoying as all hell.