Texting and Driving in Alberta

[Phantasee]

Bill 16 is before the legislature at this very moment. I spoke with Art Johnston this weekend about the bill, and he confirmed to me that it is essentially the same tough bill he introduced back in April (I spoke with him in May). Check the link above for a nice summary of the bill (and the FAQ is good too).

Text of the bill is available here.

Proposed fine is $172, but if your distracted driving leads to a collision or something more serious than a bit of weaving you can also get hit with the existing careless driving offence, which has a fine of $403 and 6 demerit points.

Highlights:

• Restricts drivers from holding/using hand-held/portable communication/entertainment devices such as cell phones, laptops or MP3 players while driving;
• Restricts drivers from reading, writing or attending to personal hygiene or grooming while driving;
• Allows enforcement officers, at their discretion, to charge distracted drivers;
• Complements the current driving without due care and attention legislation;
• Applies to all vehicles as defined by the Traffic Safety Act.

Unfortunately my proposed solution of sentencing offenders to 10 years in Fort McMurray separating the oil from the sands by hand was met with some stiff opposition. Also, some of the executives of the youth wing of the party are adamantly opposed to it, questioning its purpose, but the Transportation Minister said it's so they "get home safe."

The main purpose in making this legislation while we already have preexisting legislation that bans it is because careless driving is a pretty stiff fine and it is hard to make it stick already. Reserving it for more serious cases is a good move IMO and this smaller offence (which is in line with other minor offences in Alberta, in terms of fine) will be easier to charge and convict with.

We already have a bit of a patchwork of similar legislation across the province already, such as in neighbouring Sherwood Park/Strathcona County where you cannot use any hand-held devices (mostly cellphones). This will make it a uniform law across the province, similar to what was done with smoking laws (some places let you smoke anywhere, some only in bars, some not in public spaces, etc).

What do you think? Is there similar legislation in your local areas?

[Artemas]

Isn't this just as unenforceable as the existing legislation? Also, $400 bucks for crashing your car while texting is laughable. Needs to be way higher.

[aerius]

Ontario passed a similar law around a year ago and started enforcing it early this year after a grace period, our version applies only to cell phones and crackberries though. There was much whining and crying about Nazis and how the cops should be going after "real crime" instead of doing "glorified taxation service" and handing out tickets.

According to a quick Google news search there's been around 4000 tickets handed out by provicial police and a whole bunch more by local forces since the ban started. I'm actually surprised that they got that many though to be honest I'd like to see them declare open season and bag 10,000+ every month since there's certainly no lack of texters and cell phone users on the roads. And up the penalty to instant vehicle confiscation plus 10 years of hard labour in the Sudbury nickel mines.

My personal thought is that using cellphone or texting while driving should be an automatic careless driving and reckless endangerment charge. Since a car is a dangerous weapon that would automatically make it an indictable offence. But that'll never happen unless I somehow become the PM, and that ain't happening.

[Phantasee]

Good luck getting support for increasing fines anywhere in the world, buddy. Although I agree, fines in the low thousands for major offences and high hundreds for minor offences would be nice, but it's just not happening.

The 26 October edition of the Hansard. Discussion during Bill 16's second reading begins on page 26 of the PDF.

As for enforcement: it's just as enforceable as seatbelt laws. I've received a ticket for not wearing a belt, and believe me, they are good at spotting it. There's also the fact that a screen running a movie is kind of hard to hide, and people playing with their GPS system is even easier to spot. The 'unenforceable' part of the existing legislation was the fact that it was easier to argue your way out of the 400 dollar/6 demerit ticket because they are so stiff. This is will make it easier to bust and convict people, because now the cops don't have to hand out 6 demerit tickets as warnings. it gives them more flexibility to respond to individual situations than before.

There is also the fact that the province has stepped up enforcement everywhere. the Highway sheriffs (peace officers) have been expanding significantly over the past few years, and their Commercial Vehicle Enforcement division has grown significantly (which I know from personal professional experience).

[Marcus Aurelius]

What do you think? Is there similar legislation in your local areas?

The only legal way for using a cell phone while driving in Sweden and Finland has been handsfree devices for many years now. I don't remember though if the law also applies to MP3 players and the like. Probably not, since you don't have to handle them all the time and they're more like traditional car stereos in that regard. Recent research shows, however, that using a handsfree device has only a minimal effect as opposed to normal use of cell phones (texting of course is another matter entirely). From a road safety point of view it would be better to ban all cell phone use while driving, but it's unlikely to be accepted, because cell phones are so common now and people view it as their right to use them while driving as well.

[Phantasee]

Aerius: But you do have to start somewhere, and getting this thin wedge in is important. It's been compared to seatbelt laws from back in the day. Everybody hated it, but it became accepted and now you have people who don't move the car until everyone is buckled up.

Unfortunately it took a little more convincing for me, but you can bet that I'll be wearing mine from now on. However calling and driving is an area where I've practiced what I've preached since I realized how detrimental it is to my driving. Texting was a bit of a no-brainer. Not everyone is as self-aware, however.

[Phantasee]

A complete ban would be ideal, but it's probably never going to happen anywhere. However, I like that Alberta is going further than any other province so far. I'm sure the other provinces are going to catch up, of course, but it's been interesting seeing this sort of legislation coming through in stages across the country (and continent). The trend has been to cover more things besides just talking on a phone.

This exchange between Hinman and Ouellette (Minister of Transportation) illustrates this:

Mr. Hinman: Yes. Thank you, Mr. Speaker. The hon. Member for
Calgary-Hays brought some interesting statistics. I thought that it
would be higher than 30 per cent of all collisions that are from
distractions.
I’m wondering if the government is going to bring forward some
reports or documents on why they’ve chosen to allow hands-free
versus hand-held not being allowed. If we could see that. Also,
whether they have any research that they can provide us about other
areas that have implemented hands-free but have banned hand-held,
whether there’s been a change in the accident rate. Will the
government bring forward a bunch of these reports or information on
where we should be drawing the line on distracted driving?
[...]
Mr. Ouellette: In this country there is no one that’s banned handsfree.
So in this country there is no way to do a test on whether it’s
made any difference with hand-held or not hand-held.

[aerius]

Aerius: But you do have to start somewhere, and getting this thin wedge in is important. It's been compared to seatbelt laws from back in the day. Everybody hated it, but it became accepted and now you have people who don't move the car until everyone is buckled up.

That's true, I'm hoping that future governments jack up the fines & jailtime and add a bunch more things to the ban list. Then make drivers' licenses as hard to get as pilots' licenses, then I will be truly happy.

Unfortunately it took a little more convincing for me, but you can bet that I'll be wearing mine from now on. However calling and driving is an area where I've practiced what I've preached since I realized how detrimental it is to my driving. Texting was a bit of a no-brainer. Not everyone is as self-aware, however.

I got my stupid shit out of the way at a young age when I got the car sideways on an empty road, ever since then I do all my dumb stuff on a racetrack and drive like my dad on public roads. That's why it costs me $1200 a year to insure 2 cars under my name, it costs me less to insure the cars than if they were under my wife's name, my insurance company knows I'm never going to be in an accident unless it's an act of god.

A complete ban would be ideal, but it's probably never going to happen anywhere. However, I like that Alberta is going further than any other province so far. I'm sure the other provinces are going to catch up, of course, but it's been interesting seeing this sort of legislation coming through in stages across the country (and continent). The trend has been to cover more things besides just talking on a phone.

Yup, it's a good thing, and it can't happen soon enough.

[Phantasee]

Well as for adding things, it is a bit open-ended in that the Minister can add things later through regulations, so future technologies are already covered, and existing shit can be dealt with if it's a problem.

I thought the Ontario law banned all handheld devices, and that it included CB and 2-way radio mics? I've seen a lot about that, although I don't know if the law passed with all that intact. I do know there were a bunch of advertisements for handsfree radio equipment, and it was generally acknowledged that CB radios had to die anyway (2-ways have a lot more range and better quality).

[Simon_Jester]

Privately I'm forgiving of people who glance at a phone while at a stoplight or the like. But composing a text message while driving is utterly insane unless you're a master touch-typist on the phone keypad, and arguably even then.

[Phantasee]

Yeah, this law applies even if you're stuck at a stoplight or at a rail crossing. Which can be a bit overboard, considering how long some of those trains can be.

[aerius]

Yeah, this law applies even if you're stuck at a stoplight or at a rail crossing. Which can be a bit overboard, considering how long some of those trains can be.

I don't think it's overboard, as long as your car is on the road you need to pay full attention to what's going on around you. Just because you're stopped doesn't mean that you can dick around for 30 seconds, shit can still happen, and does. Like a cement truck with failed brakes coming in at you, if you're texting away or otherwise distracted you're dead but if you're paying attention and see it coming you can get out of the way. Assuming you were smart enough to leave half a car length in front of your car so you can pull out just in case something like this happens. Or if worse come to worst, bail out of your car and run.

A year ago I was headed up to my friend's cottage when I was stopped about 50' back from a railway crossing with maybe 4-6 cars behind me. Since I was paying attention, I noticed a tractor trailer coming from behind at high speed that didn't look like it would stop in time. I cranked the steering all the way left and gunned it into someone's driveway just seconds before the truck creamed the cars that were behind me. If I hadn't gotten out of the way my car would've taken some damage, if I'd been further back I could very well be dead.

[weemadando]

The laws in Australia are pretty much uniform now:

Are you using a mobile while driving?

Then it's against the law.

Exceptions are for handsfree kits only. Having it on speakerphone on your lap doesn't count.

Last I heard they were intending to extend this to all electronic devices (mp3 players etc).

[Darth Fanboy]

California has already banned texting while driving and requires a hands free set in order to make or take calls in the car while driving.

Now if they could just make using turn signals mandatory i'd be much better set. Fuck Southern California drivers.

[SVPD]

Using turn signals in California isn't mandatory?

It sure as hell is in Ohio. I've written a fair number of tickets for not using them. Not one of my top things I look for, but it is a law on the books.