"Best of" SciFi?

[Batman]

I'm still waiting for your CBM64 graphics screenshots looking better than B5.

[Skylon]

SAAB is also older. Its better than B5. I was blown away when I realised SAAB is from 1995.

That actually makes it a contemporary of B5, running during B5's second and third seasons (plus making B5 the older series of the two).

[Stark]

Blah, that'll teach me for believing DVD slip notes. It's probably the palette and direction that makes SAAB seem so much more modern; the infrequently used models (like the alien ships) are really poorly textured and the environment mapping is terrible.

[Lord Insanity]

The color palate in S:AAB is better than B5 but they both look really cartoony. For the time they were made they are both still awesome. For someone who has never watched them it will be obvious compared to more modern things like nBSG and Firefly, which was the point in mentioning it for the OP. I guess that is the difference, I don't care that the graphics are dated it doesn't diminish my enjoyment of either show.

[CaptJodan]

I

nBSG had the best opportunity to reach the same kind of characterizations and arcs that B5 had, but failed miserably after season 2.

People seem locked in a "season" mentality, so I'll just tweak this statement. I'd say BSG up to "Exodus pt 2", which remains, IMHO, the best episode of the series. The New Caprica arc wrapped itself up in amazing fashion. Season 3 got off to a really good start, then the series took a sharp nose dive.

B5 I'd say the season 1 finale, "Chrysalis" thru season 4. Season one had some real clunkers ("Grail" and "TKO" are Voyager level bad), but its finale was such an amazing turning point...it was the trigger that set off the main conflicts for the next four seasons.

I'd willingly agree with every statement here. I thought there were other episodes in Season one of B5 that were above average, especially for the season, mostly the arc eps like "And the Sky Full of Stars", "Signs and Portents" and "Believers" the latter of which challenged the Trek standard of happy endings at the time. On the whole, though, season 1

There were equally some shaky episodes in Season 2, especially in the beginning. And Sheridan couldn't stop smiling like a loon in nearly every scene. I guess it's more apt to say that, on the whole, B5 worked the best when it was playing to the central plot.

I'd also agree with Exodus, as it was the best episode of nBSG in my view, but S3 suffered terribly after that, which often times makes me forget that Exodus was even in season 3.

[CaptJodan]

::sigh:: Somehow I didn't finish a sentence in there.

On the whole though, season 1 didn't seem to "fit" well into what came later. It's probably due to Sinclair's departure (and all the story tweaks that caused later down the road), a just wrong new Na'toth, and the various changes that Crystalis put in motion before knowing about cast changes.

[Stark]

B5 was always spotty though; its difficult to recommend it since you have to watch the poor eps anyway due to the main plot.

[Stofsk]

Did you just compare SAAB effects to B5? It pisses all over B5; B5 looks like a C64 game. SAAB's CG is fine, poor texturing aside.

Yeah, B5's effects are horrible, especially on DVD. It should get points for pioneering the use of CGI when up until that point every sci-fi TV show used models, but they haven't dated well at all.

Since the Wildcards spend maybe four whole episodes being pilots and the rest of the show being Marines, I really think nerds have to just get over it. Remember, they suck as pilots so bad someone grounded due to injury is better than them.

Fat nerds. Fat nerds need to get over it.

[Skylon]

[
I'd willingly agree with every statement here. I thought there were other episodes in Season one of B5 that were above average, especially for the season, mostly the arc eps like "And the Sky Full of Stars", "Signs and Portents" and "Believers" the latter of which challenged the Trek standard of happy endings at the time. On the whole, though, season 1 didn't seem to "fit" well into what came later. It's probably due to Sinclair's departure (and all the story tweaks that caused later down the road), a just wrong new Na'toth, and the various changes that Crystalis put in motion before knowing about cast changes.

There were equally some shaky episodes in Season 2, especially in the beginning. And Sheridan couldn't stop smiling like a loon in nearly every scene. I guess it's more apt to say that, on the whole, B5 worked the best when it was playing to the central plot.

Merged your B5 comments.

Season one was such a seesaw when I first went through it. I'd want to ditch it then, eps like you mentioned would air, and I'd stay hooked, and wanted to see how the story-arc unfolded. Season 2 was a bit rough at points, but nowhere near the degree of season 1. The production team had learned their lessons, and the B5 of season 2, set, makeup and effects wise, stays consistent from then to the end of the show. Season 1 held up better when I rewatched it after the conclusion of the series, mostly because you pick up on little details JMS threw in, foreshadowing events to come. Even the clunkers. "TKO" is kinda necessary from an arc perspective, due to the Ivanova sub-plot, and a throw away line that Garibaldi never could "watch his back". "Grail" however, I maintain is the worst episode of B5, with no fucking arc relevance that I can find. You could skip it and you'd miss nothing.

It does amaze me how well Sinclair's departure works, when it wasn't planned.

That said, I hope that one day, be it 5 or 20 years from now, somebody revisits B5 and updates the visual effects.

[CaptJodan]

It does amaze me how well Sinclair's departure works, when it wasn't planned.

I think I read somewhere that JMS always had a "character get out of contract" free card, in that he tried to plan the plot in case one character left or something. It didn't work brilliantly with Talya because we're always left with the question "what about Ironheart's gift" and what PsyCorps did with it. Despite how integral to the plot Sinclair was, his departure, and the tie-up of "Babylon Squared" with "War Without End", it was astoundingly well done. It was obvious that Sinclair was to be Sheridan throughout the series, not Valen, but with only a couple of odd bumps in the road, "War Without End" really tied things up nicely and the series was perhaps better for it.

That said, I hope that one day, be it 5 or 20 years from now, somebody revisits B5 and updates the visual effects.

Agreed. Very little can change the hokeiness of the sets, but updating the CGI would go a long way toward helping the show.

B5 was always spotty though; its difficult to recommend it since you have to watch the poor eps anyway due to the main plot.

Maybe so, but I personally would rather watch a few poor episodes and have a real solid story arc than average or even good episodes that are arc-less. Even in those shows, you get stinkers, and yes you can skip over them easier than in B5, but I think the price is worth it to slog through them all of once for the sake of a tight arc.

[thejester]

If you're prepared to put up with at-times slack writing, occasionally lethargic pacing, strange dialogue and all the hilarity of Supermarionation, Captain Scarlet is pretty awesome.

[Themightytom]

Earth 2
SeaQuest
knightrider
Earth Star Voyager
Airwolf Season 1 &2... is a Super helicopter actually Science Fiction? In failing to create an effective list, it has occurred to me taht Science Fiction has generally sucked pre- babylon 5, With the exception of St:TNG seasons 1-5. This is ironic because B5 was really a political story set in a scifi setting. Whereas in the previous citations we had:

Little House On The Prarie In Space
Star Trek Under The Sea
Star trek in Disneyland
Baywatch Knights in a robot car.

Everything else I would think of as being "good science fiction" is already up, except I would put a few episodes of Stargate universe down. Do TV miniseries count?

Eh alright my best contribution here is Red Dwarf, for showing us Science Fiction can be funny.

[Big Orange]

NuWho was foundering a bit by S4, but there are some real corkers like "Midnight", where what the Doctor does just doesn't work and he very nearly gets killed by ordinary, terrified people.

I also recommend fantasy cop shows like the original UK Life on Mars and its follow up, Ashes to Ashes, they're set in the 1970s and 1980s respectively.

Heroes' first season is still worth a shot when the plot/character repetition hadn't set in, it's just a real shame it imploded fairly soon afterwards, becoming one of the worst sci-fi/fantasy shows in the last forty years (considering the biggish budget, solid episode directing, and broad cast ensemble).

[TOSDOC]

"Midnight" was deserving of an Emmy--The scenes where the Doctor and the alien doing their lines in sync were frigging genius.

I forgot all about Alien Nation. I'm still trying to figure out a biochemistry that gets you drunk with sour milk and melts you with saltwater. But watching a 3-sex species with the males carrying the baby to term was great fun, not to mention how George took his coffee and lunches at the precinct. Sikes was perfect for the audience to identify with, and there were some great social commentary episodes to come out as a result.

[Big Orange]

"Midnight" was deserving of an Emmy--The scenes where the Doctor and the alien doing their lines in sync were frigging genius.

Yes, I agree, no massive alien fleets and big explosions, "Midnight" just through the acting put me more on the edge my seat than 90% of other NuWho (including Matt Smith's first season).