The chances of space shuttle Discovery launching on the STS-133 mission in 2010 could be in jeopardy. Cracked foam on the shuttle’s external tank was removed early Wednesday morning and underneath engineers found a structural crack on the tank itself. The serpentine crack is about 22 cm (9 inches) long and is located on a structural rib or “stringer.” Cracks like this have appeared on other tanks and were fixed at the production facility in New Orleans. But this type of repair has never been attempted at the launch pad.
Engineers are also working to pin down the cause of a hydrogen gas leak, which forced NASA to call off the launch last week. The next launch window opens November 30 and closes December 6. But with the hydrogen leak work still ongoing, and given the uncertainties of the crack, it seems unlikely Discovery could be ready to go within that time frame.
The website NASASpacefight.com said similar repairs have been done by “removing the cracked aluminum and replacing it with a “doubler,” which is a twice-as-thick stringer section before replacing the foam insulation.” But again, this has only been done at the production facility.
Former shuttle launch director Wayne Hale posted a comment on NASA Spaceflight.com, saying the crack was troubling. “Not only does this most likely have to be repaired – and that could be difficult,” Hale wrote, “ but understanding the root cause of the problem and developing flight rationale are going to be very difficult. I am thinking that a launch this calendar year is in jeopardy. Good luck to the team, if anybody can solve it the folks at MAF, MSFC, and the other centers can do it. I hope I am being overly pessimistic and this turns out to be simple; but right now it doesn’t look like it.”
...at this point, lets just close down the shuttle. When you're saved from a possible disaster by a string of problems that keep delaying the launch multiple times -- and in the process of fixing the original problem that caused a launch delay, you find MORE problems....
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The Shuttles are now like those creaky starships from the various TV shows: you know, the stereotypical tramp freighter that barely holds together during a hyperjump.
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Clearly, the Bragulans put together the Space Shuttle. What is lacking is a nuclear pulse rocket.
But jokes aside, can't they just take the shuttle down and then replace the damn tank?
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Or more precisely they can, but it's a tremendous logistical operation that would delay the launch for months.
JULY 20TH 1969 - The day the entire world was looking up
It suddenly struck me that that tiny pea, pretty and blue, was the Earth. I put up my thumb and shut one eye, and my thumb blotted out the planet Earth. I didn't feel like a giant. I felt very, very small. - NEIL ARMSTRONG, MISSION COMMANDER, APOLLO 11
Signature dedicated to the greatest achievement of mankind.
MILDLY DERANGED PHYSICIST does not mind BREAKING the SOUND BARRIER, because it is INSURED. - Simon_Jester considering the problems of hypersonic flight for Team L.A.M.E.
Or more precisely they can, but it's a tremendous logistical operation that would delay the launch for months.
Why.. months? It took them like a few weeks at best to mount the shuttle on the tank and roll it on that giant tractor to the launch pad.
STGOD: Byzantine Empire Your spirit, diseased as it is, refuses to allow you to give up, no matter what threats you face... and whatever wreckage you leave behind you.
Kreia
Fingolfin_Noldor wrote:
Why.. months? It took them like a few weeks at best to mount the shuttle on the tank and roll it on that giant tractor to the launch pad.
Because you need to roll the crawler out again, have it pick up the MLP, roll it back, take the Shuttle apart, fix the tank and then put it back together again. It takes six weeks to assemble the Shuttle ; I'd imagine disassembling it will take at least as long, and then you have to wait for a launch window to open again.
JULY 20TH 1969 - The day the entire world was looking up
It suddenly struck me that that tiny pea, pretty and blue, was the Earth. I put up my thumb and shut one eye, and my thumb blotted out the planet Earth. I didn't feel like a giant. I felt very, very small. - NEIL ARMSTRONG, MISSION COMMANDER, APOLLO 11
Signature dedicated to the greatest achievement of mankind.
MILDLY DERANGED PHYSICIST does not mind BREAKING the SOUND BARRIER, because it is INSURED. - Simon_Jester considering the problems of hypersonic flight for Team L.A.M.E.
Fingolfin_Noldor wrote:
Why.. months? It took them like a few weeks at best to mount the shuttle on the tank and roll it on that giant tractor to the launch pad.
Because you need to roll the crawler out again, have it pick up the MLP, roll it back, take the Shuttle apart, fix the tank and then put it back together again. It takes six weeks to assemble the Shuttle ; I'd imagine disassembling it will take at least as long, and then you have to wait for a launch window to open again.
So best bet 2-3 months? Quite frankly, if the shuttle blows up again, there won't ever be another launch ever. They are taking a lot of risks if they try to fix it in situ.
STGOD: Byzantine Empire Your spirit, diseased as it is, refuses to allow you to give up, no matter what threats you face... and whatever wreckage you leave behind you.
Kreia
I'm sure that they designed the ET to have enough structural integrity to continue a launch if x amount of stringers failed. But this is not a good sign.
"If scientists and inventors who develop disease cures and useful technologies don't get lifetime royalties, I'd like to know what fucking rationale you have for some guy getting lifetime royalties for writing an episode of Full House." - Mike Wong
"The present air situation in the Pacific is entirely the result of fighting a fifth rate air power." - U.S. Navy Memo - 24 July 1944
To be honest, cracks in the ET don't really mean the Shuttle fleet is aging, since that component is always newly made on every launch. All the other problems with the fleet are much more important.
JULY 20TH 1969 - The day the entire world was looking up
It suddenly struck me that that tiny pea, pretty and blue, was the Earth. I put up my thumb and shut one eye, and my thumb blotted out the planet Earth. I didn't feel like a giant. I felt very, very small. - NEIL ARMSTRONG, MISSION COMMANDER, APOLLO 11
Signature dedicated to the greatest achievement of mankind.
MILDLY DERANGED PHYSICIST does not mind BREAKING the SOUND BARRIER, because it is INSURED. - Simon_Jester considering the problems of hypersonic flight for Team L.A.M.E.
Wait, I thought we had already decided that we were going to use the Space Shuttles to give political dissidents 'free trips' to outer space and back into the atmosphere?
MKSheppard wrote:I'm sure that they designed the ET to have enough structural integrity to continue a launch if x amount of stringers failed. But this is not a good sign.
No, it's not.
The proper thing to do, even if it fucks up the schedule, is to take the damn thing off the launch pad and fix it properly. Even if that pushes the launch into 2011.
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I really hope the guys don't duct-tape it and send up people anyway.
Either they shut down Space Shuttle program OR they fix it properly.
Dunno if NASA can withstand another space shuttle blow-up.
Would be a spectacular although very sad way to end the Space Shuttle program.
Still, I don't know if this is scary or good. Scary since it is A FUCKING SPACE SHUTTLE, so it should have appropriate quality control. Good because they detected the problem BEFORE anyone got hurt.
I'm nobody. Nobody at all. But the secrets of the universe don't mind. They reveal themselves to nobodies who care. -- Stereotypical spacecraft are pressurized. Less realistic spacecraft are pressurized to hold breathing atmosphere. Realistic spacecraft are pressurized because they are flying propellant tanks. -Isaac Kuo -- Good art has function as well as form. I hesitate to spend more than $50 on decorations of any kind unless they can be used to pummel an intruder into submission. -Sriad
PeZook wrote:To be honest, cracks in the ET don't really mean the Shuttle fleet is aging, since that component is always newly made on every launch. All the other problems with the fleet are much more important.
Wonder how close Branson and company are with getting the Enterprise up and running? I wonder because it seems like we should totally just bung his team into NASA and have them get their program whipped into shape in a few years.
Chardok wrote:Wonder how close Branson and company are with getting the Enterprise up and running? I wonder because it seems like we should totally just bung his team into NASA and have them get their program whipped into shape in a few years.
NASA's spaceflight programs are far more complex, though, and prone to shifting requirements and funding.
Chardok wrote:Wonder how close Branson and company are with getting the Enterprise up and running? I wonder because it seems like we should totally just bung his team into NASA and have them get their program whipped into shape in a few years.
NASA's spaceflight programs are far more complex, though, and prone to shifting requirements and funding.
Oh, I'm sure, but seriously, given the speed and efficiency with which Virgin Galactic has progressed surely there is some carryover that can apply to a larger program.
Chardok wrote:Wonder how close Branson and company are with getting the Enterprise up and running? I wonder because it seems like we should totally just bung his team into NASA and have them get their program whipped into shape in a few years.
NASA's spaceflight programs are far more complex, though, and prone to shifting requirements and funding.
Oh, I'm sure, but seriously, given the speed and efficiency with which Virgin Galactic has progressed surely there is some carryover that can apply to a larger program.
I'm not sure how they could do much beyond ferrying astronauts to the ISS. The designs aren't exactly built to carry major equipment payloads.
Last edited by General Zod on 2010-11-12 11:58am, edited 1 time in total.
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Sarevok wrote:Virgin Galactic is not working on nor has plans for anything that qualifies as a spacecraft.
Incorrect. While the ships might not reach orbit, they have reached space.
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Fingolfin_Noldor wrote:
Why.. months? It took them like a few weeks at best to mount the shuttle on the tank and roll it on that giant tractor to the launch pad.
Because you need to roll the crawler out again, have it pick up the MLP, roll it back, take the Shuttle apart, fix the tank and then put it back together again. It takes six weeks to assemble the Shuttle ; I'd imagine disassembling it will take at least as long, and then you have to wait for a launch window to open again.
So best bet 2-3 months? Quite frankly, if the shuttle blows up again, there won't ever be another launch ever. They are taking a lot of risks if they try to fix it in situ.
If they don't fix it, there won't be another launch ever. This, I believe, is scheduled to be Discovery's final flight. So I am going to guess that if they decide it's too risky to fix this problem in-situ, that they'll just call the whole thing off, move on to the next scheduled flight (while hoping the new Congress will be in the mood to authorize a final, final Shuttle launch to make up for the loss of this one,) and the Smithsonian will get their new centerpiece a bit sooner than they'd planned.
Sarevok wrote:Virgin Galactic is not working on nor has plans for anything that qualifies as a spacecraft.
Sarevok, I know you're not very smart, but you already got schooled on this subject in this thread so if you're not going to learn anything, kindly shut the hell up, will you?
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Whilst I will admit that my knowledge of this subject is not..completely robust, I would imagine Virgin Galactic could get it going faster as a private concern than as a part of the government
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Eternal_Freedom wrote:Whilst I will admit that my knowledge of this subject is not..completely robust, I would imagine Virgin Galactic could get it going faster as a private concern than as a part of the government
Unless they have anywhere close to NASA's $19bn budget, I doubt it.
"It's you Americans. There's something about nipples you hate. If this were Germany, we'd be romping around naked on the stage here."
Eternal_Freedom wrote:Whilst I will admit that my knowledge of this subject is not..completely robust, I would imagine Virgin Galactic could get it going faster as a private concern than as a part of the government
Unless they have anywhere close to NASA's $19bn budget, I doubt it.
Well, I was thinking more of bringing them on in an advisory capacity. that is - utilize gov't funding but let the VG guys function as consultants/designers/etc.
