Communication Device in SGU

[OsirisLord]

So my friend and I got into a little discussion regarding the communication devices from SGU, namely the ones that instantly switch two people's consciousness instantly regardless of distance. I felt that it destroyed any feeling of isolation the show should have been going for, since now they have this instant line back to Earth. My friend says it makes them feel more isolated, for pretty much the same reasons.

So what are you guys' thoughts on the matter? How effectively do you think the show is using them?

[Sarevok]

Its a cheap plot device to create drama.

[JME2]

Its a cheap plot device to create drama.

And it invalidates the premise of being stranded from home. I still think the Lucian Alliance should have destroyed the stones when their incursion failed in an act of spite.

[Solauren]

Stranded does is not required to also mean 'lack of communication'

The stones, IMHO, shows that this was an expedition that was probably better prepared then the Atlantis expedition, but the Lucian Alliance attack harpooned it. It's a constant reminder of it.

I mean, if they had the communication stones, what other kind of equipment did they have ready to go?

[Themightytom]

Stranded does is not required to also mean 'lack of communication'

The stones, IMHO, shows that this was an expedition that was probably better prepared then the Atlantis expedition, but the Lucian Alliance attack harpooned it. It's a constant reminder of it.

I mean, if they had the communication stones, what other kind of equipment did they have ready to go?

Naquidah generators would have been likely as they did actually have them on Atlantis, maybe even a zpm if Todd somehow came up with more.

I think the stones do isolate the crew but in a different way, giving them a glimpse but never a permanent one into their old lives. They get to visit but know they can't stay.

In terms of plot device, wtf I don't even know why they don't body snatch the Lucian alliance members on a regular basis with counterparts in jail to allow for more qualified engineers to be working on Destiny.

[CaptJodan]

In terms of plot device, wtf I don't even know why they don't body snatch the Lucian alliance members on a regular basis with counterparts in jail to allow for more qualified engineers to be working on Destiny.

Um...what? I'm confused. So you use an LA guy's body to bring aboard a convict from our own world? I don't think that's what you meant...can you clear that up?

[PREDATOR490]

I'm guessing he means force them to switch bodies with qualified personel while the LA members are strapped into a bed.

Ethical / Moral - Hell no but we are on a show that seems to like being 'dark' and we have ill-equiped folks stuck in shitty situation looking to get home.

As for the stones themselves, I honestly despise them for the simple fact they introduce endless frustration due to the fact those stones allow ANYONE to be brought forth and since SGC has access to resources and technological expertise gained from 10+ years of working in space... it is beyond silly to have a bunch of no-name idiots play the 'we are stranded in space and have no idea how to get home or access to the expertise to figure out how to get home'

Uhhh... the stones allow you to gain access to Carter, Rodney if you desire or the army of folks that LOGICALLY should be working for the SGC. They should have access to ALL the expertise they need or at the very least be mentioning this kind of stuff is being done.
Hey, if the ship is fucked up beyond repair and needs extensive work to do anything - fine.

Instead its a case of, the crew of Destiny are fucking around doing nothing to find a way home while SGC seems content to just let a ship of fools fly to god-knows-where... with every moment the ship gets further away the chances of them getting back become smaller.
Spoiler

Especially, now with Destiny under control. The logical option would be to turn the Destiny around and drive back but naturally the recent episode is going to establish the crew are going to fufil Destiny's mission because thats their biggest chance of getting home...
Because if we find God he will send us home or we discover the meaning to life it will grant us God-like powers to bend reality to our will...

Seriously, what the fuck kind of reasoning is that to expect from military / scientific personnel ?
If they are THAT keen on becoming gods... why not just learn to Ascend, fly back home and then de-ascend.
They have a BETTER chance of pulling that off given the research / knowledge gained over the course of SG-1 and Atlantis

[The_Saint]

At first I had the opinion it was another attempt at shooting themselves in the foot aka Atlantis' season 1 finale by removing the "omgwtf we're stranded element"...

I have changed my mind though.... yes it does allow members to travel back and have a glimpse at their past lives but as mentioned... they can't stay there (in someone else's body on earth). It does allow them to bring in expertise.... but how much use is the expertise to fix something if the nearest spare part is several billion light years back the way you've come, a good example was an episode back a while involving a medical procedure (I can't remember the specific episode) where the SGC "borrowed" a top medical doctor and body swapped them to the Destiny, once there all they had was a couple of scalpels and some alien plant extract that no one really knew anything about except it rendered people unconscious.

Yes it does destroy some of the sense of isolation but it definitely wasn't the deus ex machina rubbish of the LA expedition.
Atlantis I think lost something at the end of season 1 with access back to Earth (when it just became SG-1 v2.0) though all they needed was a ZPM it wouldn't take too long before not finding one at either end would get suspicious.

[NecronLord]

Especially, now with Destiny under control. The logical option would be to turn the Destiny around and drive back but naturally the recent episode is going to establish the crew are going to fufil Destiny's mission because thats their biggest chance of getting home...

Spoiler

Tying to fly Destiny home is a non-starter. It will take a million years or something. Flying back to that seed-ship and storming, on the other hand... Failing that, it really doesn't matter what way they fly, best to try and find a power source.

[CaptainChewbacca]

In terms of plot device, wtf I don't even know why they don't body snatch the Lucian alliance members on a regular basis with counterparts in jail to allow for more qualified engineers to be working on Destiny.

Um...what? I'm confused. So you use an LA guy's body to bring aboard a convict from our own world? I don't think that's what you meant...can you clear that up?

How much clearer do you need it? How you got 'convict from our world' out of 'qualified engineer' is so troubling I think you should go get a cat scan to make sure you don't have a brain tumor.

Edit: Someone suggested turning the ship around and going back, but that isn't helpful. They are MILLIONS of years from earth, and the only guaranteed power-source they know of is the seed ships, which are ahead of them. They're just as likely to find 'RAR ALIEN SPACEBATS' ahead as behind, so they should keep heading towards the seed ships.

[CaptJodan]

In terms of plot device, wtf I don't even know why they don't body snatch the Lucian alliance members on a regular basis with counterparts in jail to allow for more qualified engineers to be working on Destiny.

Um...what? I'm confused. So you use an LA guy's body to bring aboard a convict from our own world? I don't think that's what you meant...can you clear that up?

How much clearer do you need it? How you got 'convict from our world' out of 'qualified engineer' is so troubling I think you should go get a cat scan to make sure you don't have a brain tumor.

I got "convict from our world" from "counterparts in jail" you illiterate moron. Where's the jail on Destiny? Are we using engineers from inside jail cells on Earth?

[PREDATOR490]

In terms of plot device, wtf I don't even know why they don't body snatch the Lucian alliance members on a regular basis with counterparts in jail to allow for more qualified engineers to be working on Destiny.

Um...what? I'm confused. So you use an LA guy's body to bring aboard a convict from our own world? I don't think that's what you meant...can you clear that up?

How much clearer do you need it? How you got 'convict from our world' out of 'qualified engineer' is so troubling I think you should go get a cat scan to make sure you don't have a brain tumor.

Edit: Someone suggested turning the ship around and going back, but that isn't helpful. They are MILLIONS of years from earth, and the only guaranteed power-source they know of is the seed ships, which are ahead of them. They're just as likely to find 'RAR ALIEN SPACEBATS' ahead as behind, so they should keep heading towards the seed ships.

Assuming Destiny hasnt come across any super-power sources or planets like Icarus that are reasonbly distanced behind them then yes. Although, if Rush has full control of Destiny AND the show has suggest the seed-ships have an active link with Destiny... one would think Destiny should be able to contact the seedships and perhaps do some remote control.
I.E Hey Seedship, stop and stay where you are while Destiny comes to you

Alternatively, turn Destiny around and fly back to the one Telford got stuck on. Which logically should be one of the biggest things coming up soon unless everyone decided to just have collective amnesia about the poor SOB they left behind.
Spoiler

Although, I suspect Telford is coming back for the mid-season cliffhanger based on whats been indicated. If that happens, no doubt the seedship will get destroyed or otherwise disbabled to prevent the obvious means of getting home.

[Alyeska]

There are other possible ways to get the ship home. The SGC has some powerful allies still. They also know some powerful organizations in the Galaxy. Who else is still around with the ability to transit significant distances in the universe?

The Ori.

They could contact the Ori and ask for support. Ori probably can gate to the Destiny. Ori sends a prior. Prior creates an artificial blackhole as a power source. Ori send through pieces of a supergate. Supergate is built. Destiny travels back to the Milkyway intact.

Something else to consider. The FTL speeds demonstrated by the Asgard are fast. Stupidly fast. I crunched some numbers based on their taking less than 6 hours to reach another Galaxy outside of the Milkyway. The Asgard FTL is so fast that they could potentially transit the entire universe in under 20 years.

Fun with math:

6 hours to go 3.5 million light years. (estimate travel time for food to thaw and approximate distance of Galaxies close to the Milkyway)

583,333.33 light years per hour

9,722.22 light years per minute

162.04 light years per second

The observable universe is estimated to be about 93 billion light years.

3.5 MLY (Million Light Years) in 6 hours translates to 14 MLY in 24 hours.

93 billion light years becomes 93000 MLY.

93000 MLY divided by 14 MLY (size of the universe divided by light years traveled in 24 hours)

We get a figure of 6,642.85 days. Divide this by 365. The Asgard can cross the length of the universe in less than 19 years.

SGC has access to ZPMs which allow them to travel a distance of 3.5 MLY in 4 days. This is .875 MLY in 24 hours.

The Oddessey can cross the universe in less than 292 years with a ZPM running its FTL drive.

Standard equipped Daedalus can cross 3.5 MLY in 3 weeks, 21 days. .1667 MLY in 24 hours. That is 1,528.4 years to cross the universe.

Destiny is downright slow compared to the “modern” FTL designs.

[Darth Nostril]

There are other possible ways to get the ship home. The SGC has some powerful allies still. They also know some powerful organizations in the Galaxy. Who else is still around with the ability to transit significant distances in the universe?

The Ori.

They could contact the Ori and ask for support. Ori probably can gate to the Destiny. Ori sends a prior. Prior creates an artificial blackhole as a power source. Ori send through pieces of a supergate. Supergate is built. Destiny travels back to the Milkyway intact.

Point the first - the Ori were not allies and would never have helped.

Point the second - the Ori are extinct.
SG1 used Merlins anti-Ori weapon the Sangraal and wiped them out, the Orici Adria died and ascended, claiming all the collective power from the Ori worshippers as her own until SG1 fucked up her shit with the Ark of Truth. Then Morgan le Fay took her out of the equation permanently the same way Oma Desala dealt with Anubis.

[Alyeska]

Point the first - the Ori were not allies and would never have helped.

Point the second - the Ori are extinct.

SG1 used Merlins anti-Ori weapon the Sangraal and wiped them out, the Orici Adria died and ascended, claiming all the collective power from the Ori worshippers as her own until SG1 fucked up her shit with the Ark of Truth. Then Morgan le Fay took her out of the equation permanently the same way Oma Desala dealt with Anubis.

I meant the Followers of the Ori. I believe this to be rather obvious and your point to be a worthless nitpick that doesn't change my statements.

[Darth Nostril]

With the Ori gone and the former Followers of the Ori turned from the Path of Origin the former priors no longer have their powers.
And the Ori kept their followers at a near medieval level of technology, so with them extinct no one has the knowledge of how to build supergates anymore.

Anything else you'd like to pull out of your ass at this point?

[Alyeska]

With the Ori gone and the former Followers of the Ori turned from the Path of Origin the former priors no longer have their powers.

Oh really. The powers of a prior do not come from the Ori. The powers are instrinsic to the Prior. They are incredibly evolved creatures. Anubis's advanced clone and Rodney getting into the accension machine show this concept. The powers of a Prior do not come from devotion.

And the Ori kept their followers at a near medieval level of technology, so with them extinct no one has the knowledge of how to build supergates anymore.

Anything else you'd like to pull out of your ass at this point?

You are the person pulling from his ass. The priors still posses the powers adn knowledge they had before the Ori went extinct. The Priors still controlled the people and the fleets during the period in which the Ori were killed and before accension of Adria.

You assume the Priors become totally powerless and loose all the knowledge they have aquired. Except they were still formulating their attack on Earth even after Adria herself was killed. If they were powerless, they would have had no control.

[PREDATOR490]

The Priors power was not entirely dependant on the Ori to work so logically the Priors will still keep their powers when the Ori are gone. Afterall the Priors were supposedly fueling the ORI via the worship system they setup and when they fucked Adria with the Arc of Truth she got depowered enough for Morgan to kick her ass.
However, there is no indication if the Priors were given much in the way of actual knowledge to build ANY technology the demonstrated.

Sure, they can work it and fly the ships but the Ori were clearly manipulative much like the Goa'uld and kept their minions in the dark to maintain their power. Thus, I find it highly unlikely the Priors will be in any position to help reach Destiny unless the Ori were handy enough to give detailed schematics on their technology AND the priors can gain access to all the materials.

That said, there is ONE clear example the Ori galaxy has the power requirements to dial across galaxies so one would think it might be possible to dial Destiny if they plant a stargate next to a blackhole...
I would think the Ori blackhole could be the best shot, a blackhole big enough to power a supergate might be powerful enough to fuel a small gate dialing Destiny over a much longer range. Although it really is a non-starter in any case due to the simple fact if SGC is able to dial INTO Destiny. Any reasong for not having qualified personnel on that ship and dealing with the misfits goes right out the window. As does the eventual influx of new equipment and supplies.

[CaptainChewbacca]

I got "convict from our world" from "counterparts in jail" you illiterate moron. Where's the jail on Destiny? Are we using engineers from inside jail cells on Earth?

'Counterparts in jail' means leave them in a jail ON EARTH. Or are you deliberately trying to infer the least helpful interpretation possible?

[Sarevok]

They have more than enough people on Destiny willing to take a trip to Earth so they can meet up family and friends. So many infact that there is a fucking line of them waiting to take turns at the stones. Why would they need to even consider forcing people to give up their bodies ?

[CaptJodan]

I got "convict from our world" from "counterparts in jail" you illiterate moron. Where's the jail on Destiny? Are we using engineers from inside jail cells on Earth?

'Counterparts in jail' means leave them in a jail ON EARTH. Or are you deliberately trying to infer the least helpful interpretation possible?

I don't know, you seem to be the master of "least helpful". I asked for clarification, and rather than just giving it, you decided to be a dick for no legitimate reason on a quote that wasn't yours. So fuck off.

To contribute to the topic at hand, my objections to the use of the stones is the lack of regulation of them, rather than the fact that they exist. If they'd been handled properly, the stones would have been able to add to the sense of isolation. There should be more rules and regulations on how a person can treat the body of another. Maybe the person whose body you're occupying doesn't want to have sex with someone they don't know. Maybe they're not big on getting drunk.

Stargate Command seems to have excessively lax rules on what they'll allow people to do in each other's bodies. It's a very humane thing to do, but I don't think it's really all that realistic. Having Wray be allowed to see her wife, but not allowed to kiss her or make love to her...and only being allowed such visitations under some kind of supervision seems more like how this kind of thing might go.

Take away the stones from the plot, and you have the Voyager effect. The crew is isolated, yes, but characters back on Earth think they've just died and move on with their lives (without the stones, even the SGC wouldn't know any better). The stones do allow for both ends to feel isolated and alone, but I think the rampant "you can do anything you want unsupervised with a body that isn't yours" element is a real flaw, and putting stricter rules on that could increase that feeling of isolation.

[PREDATOR490]

I have to agree I find it annoying that no attempt has been made to address the issues being shown with these stones. At best we have two clear examples of these stones being in a manner that should automatically result in SGC slamming down restrictions.

1) Everet using Telford's Body to screw his wife - Sure, the scene had a bit of amusement but using another person's body to screw someone is pretty questionable. Not only does it have the obvious ramifications I.E If a pregnancy was to occur or the owner might object to their body being used in such manners.
It also has the horrible situation of painting the non-body switched person in a bad light.

Its not evident due to the fact the show has the actors in place of the bodies but the reality is when Everet was screwing his wife, she was seeing Telford.

2) Everet lying and using someone else's body to jump and smack Telford around

Which highlights my real problem with the stones, not as a story tool but the simple fact they point out a glaring problem with trying to 'depict' these in ANY media form. The 'A' list actors are there to act but the situation of Destiny requires them to switch bodies with randoms.
By all rights everytime we see someone switch to Earth we should be seeing these 'extras' and those people would have to be trained to literally emulate whatever character was in them. Given how many actors and switching has occured, it would be a monumental task to find even ONE actor that can say... emulate Jack O'Neil properly. Trying to get multiple extras to emulate multiple actors from Everet, Telford to Rush would be nigh impossible.

Instead of doing this, they went the 'cheap' way by simply having the actors appearing as normal with brief hints they are in an 'extra' body. It works but then we have a situation like the recent episode where Eli gets hissy at Perry about getting intimate with Rush in someone else's body.

We have a woman that suffers from a disability getting intimate in someone else's body while Rush can see Giin, is kissing Giin's body and there is no way to really show if being in someone else's body will result in different sensations etc.
I would be curious to find out if having a someone that isnt physically attractive as the host would have an effect on Rush getting it on with Perry.
If... Perry had jumped into the body of Everet, I rather doubt it.

[Sarevok]

If they showed Perry in Ginns body as Ginn the scene would have carried far far more gravitas. By magically changing actors its just Rush screwing Perry with the fact that its another person body a small afterthought comment by Eli. Seeing Ginn being fondled like that by Rush would raised the same in universe emotions Eli must have felt amongst us viewers. The stones could have been quite interesting that way. But no ! We have to see the gang roving around the Earth instead of creepily possesing others peoples bodies.