Trek Fleet counts

[Adam Reynolds]

Interphase cloak is small enough to fit on runabout. For DS1, they would not need vent at all. For DS2, it is similar design, so it also must have vent, which seemed to be far larger than that of DS1, althought if I'm not wrong, it would be blocked somehow. But it probably would not be sufficient to stop runabout equipped with interphase cloak.

The second Death Star was stated to have a large number of milimeter sized vents all across its surface to avoid the single point of failure that caused the destruction of the first Death Star, ref http://www.starwars.com/databank/locati ... index.html. Going through any of those vents would be just as hard as going through the conventional armor.

[Serafina]

Interphase cloak is small enough to fit on runabout. For DS1, they would not need vent at all. For DS2, it is similar design, so it also must have vent, which seemed to be far larger than that of DS1, althought if I'm not wrong, it would be blocked somehow. But it probably would not be sufficient to stop runabout equipped with interphase cloak.

Hey, moron: HOW ABOUT ACTUALLY READING WHAT PEOPLE ARE WRITING?

Seriously, fucktard - i TOLD YOU that the second Death Star has NO LARGE, VULNERABLE VENT! It has millions of small vents which will not cause a chain reaction when hit.

AND STOP ASSUMING THAT A PHASE CLOAK WILL WORK! You have NO EVIDENCE that it works regardless of material and that it can penetrate shields!
You have ENTIRELY IGNORED my argument that the phase cloak was faulty, and enough of a failure that all major powers adandoned research altogether. Yet you are assuming that it will be mass-produced and work without any errors.

Seriously - HOW ABOUT ACTUALLY ADDRESSING OUR ARGUMENTS?! You have stopped so entirely, merely repeating your points over and over and OVER again, in utter ignorance. Stop being such a damn simpleton and start to debate.

[Norade]

So they just go throught vent.

First off, try getting the spelling right and including all the words your sentence requires.

Now assuming you mean, "Then they will just go through the vent", you're absolutely fucking wrong. First of all there was no vent large enough for a ship to fit through on the DS1 and on the DS2 there was also no vent, if you mean the open side that was part of a ruse to trick the rebel fleet into thinking it was incomplete by making it look less complete than it really was then you're also wrong. You're continually ignoring the fact that the rebels reached that point in the galaxy using a drive many times faster than the drive speeds in Star Trek and that an incomplete DS2 wouldn't be sent to the enemy until it was made complete. This would include things like a fully enclosed hull and secondary and point defense batteries.

Second, and I hope you take this in the most appropriate way, kindly fuck off with the wall of ignorance style and please don't let the door hit you on the way out you shit sucking piece of mother fucking trash.

Interphase cloak is small enough to fit on runabout. For DS1, they would not need vent at all. For DS2, it is similar design, so it also must have vent, which seemed to be far larger than that of DS1, althought if I'm not wrong, it would be blocked somehow. But it probably would not be sufficient to stop runabout equipped with interphase cloak.

Get me a picture and show me this vent of which you speak.

[Norade]

Then why didn't Ro or Gordie complain about feeling hot?

Why did Data call a fish an amphibian?

The obvious answer is that everybody in all of Trek is half brain dead.

[Collossus]

Then why didn't Ro or Gordie complain about feeling hot?

Why did Data call a fish an amphibian?

The obvious answer is that everybody in all of Trek is half brain dead.

LOL when the hell did he do that!?......
Good old Data always spouting nonsense that everyone thought was infallible.


BTW a little off topic but has anyone else read the news about a possible new trilogy release? I am hoping that maybe, just maybe this will be true....
http://iesb.net/index.php?option=com_co ... &Itemid=71

[Srelex]

We had a thread on that; general feeling is that it's BS.

[fallendragon]

Norade, are you sure that the poeple on Startrek are the only ones half brain dead? As your explaination, frankly, sucks and is something I'd expect out of a 6 year old.

[Collossus]

Norade, are you sure that the poeple on Startrek are the only ones half brain dead? As your explaination, frankly, sucks and is something I'd expect out of a 6 year old.

Based on your spelling skills I could say the same thing about yours...... I am not saying everyone has to be a perfect English major by any means but even if you have an excellent argument and everything is logical and precise......then you spell every other word like a kindergartner then the point is diminished or lost altogether.

(end of pet peeve rant)

[Norade]

Norade, are you sure that the poeple on Startrek are the only ones half brain dead? As your explaination, frankly, sucks and is something I'd expect out of a 6 year old.

Maybe their magic PJ's cooled them, or they spent some time recalibrating their phasers to cool them, perhaps they took an anti-warming pill from sickbay. Let's be honest, the Trek side here is provide nothing in terms of information on this worthless cloak so I'm going to keep attacking your points with whatever I feel like until you can explain if the floor or a single gravity was enough to stop a ship from cruising through your hull, or explaining why we should believe that phase cloak wouldn't store energy. Or why people can still see non-phased photons, or breath non-phased air?

Given that we know gases and photons interact with matter if you can find a cloaked ship then a significantly high powered laser should be able to deal damage, alternatively particle beams, or plasma may also work. Things like flooding decks with toxic gases would also work against phase cloaked intruders we know the GE has NBC proof combat uniforms for Stormtroopers where as standard feddie flannel won't stop anything.

[Collossus]

Norade, are you sure that the poeple on Startrek are the only ones half brain dead? As your explaination, frankly, sucks and is something I'd expect out of a 6 year old.

Maybe their magic PJ's cooled them, or they spent some time recalibrating their phasers to cool them, perhaps they took an anti-warming pill from sickbay. Let's be honest, the Trek side here is provide nothing in terms of information on this worthless cloak so I'm going to keep attacking your points with whatever I feel like until you can explain if the floor or a single gravity was enough to stop a ship from cruising through your hull, or explaining why we should believe that phase cloak wouldn't store energy. Or why people can still see non-phased photons, or breath non-phased air?

Given that we know gases and photons interact with matter if you can find a cloaked ship then a significantly high powered laser should be able to deal damage, alternatively particle beams, or plasma may also work. Things like flooding decks with toxic gases would also work against phase cloaked intruders we know the GE has NBC proof combat uniforms for Stormtroopers where as standard feddie flannel won't stop anything.

How about if you knock out their gravity somehow (ST6) would everyone just stay put as the ship passed them by until they were outside the hull? that sounds plausible if not hilarious...

[Picard]

Get me a picture and show me this vent of which you speak.

One throught which Millenium Falcon flew throught before destroying Death Star II. Serafina argued it would be closed - however, it can't be sealed off by hundreds of meters of metal beacouse such thing will negate entire point of having it.

[Serafina]

Get me a picture and show me this vent of which you speak.

One throught which Millenium Falcon flew throught before destroying Death Star II. Serafina argued it would be closed - however, it can't be sealed off by hundreds of meters of metal beacouse such thing will negate entire point of having it.

Hey, moron:
THAT WASN'T A THERMAL EXHAUST PORT! It was never supposed to be one.
What the rebels used to fly into the hearth of the second Death Star was a shaft (or not even that, they didn't fly in a straight line) that was there because the damn thing was not yet FINISHED. It's likely that it was deliberately left there to lure the rebels into the trap set for them.
You have NO EVIDENCE that it was supposed to be a thermal vent. In fact, we direct statements from the EU that it was NOT a thermal vent - and it was never referred as such in G-canon, so don't claim "contradiction" again. It was also obviously under construction, and utterly impractical as a thermal exhaust port due to the way it was constructed.

Again, you are ignoring all my statements, deliberately strawmaning them instead of challenging them directly. You are also rejecting logic and evidence whenever (or rather, always) they don't fit your per-conceived notions.


I have told you at least a dozen times why it's obviously not a thermal exhaust port. You have presented absolutely NO evidence that it is. You are an utter failure.


BTW, i will now highlight all your spelling errors in a nice, bright red - because your text appear that way due to my spell checker anyway. Go and get one, if your a incapable of proper spelling on your own.

[Batman]

@Picard
Throught is not a word and does not become one just because you use it twice in the same sentence.
Even ignoring the fact that you have yet to show evidence they intended to keep the shaft when it's blatantly obvious that the path to the reactor core was open thanks to the DS2 still being under construction, how do you know closing it off would render it useless?
Besides, even if for some never ever mentioned anywhere, at all, throughout all of canon, reason, the finished DS2 was meant to keep that shaft and require it to be accessible from the outside, what's to stop them from blocking it with a big hunking armoured door?

[Serafina]

Actually, i am pretty damn sure that it wasn't even a shaft. They didn't fly in a straight line, and they had to "lock onto the strongest energy source", which would be unnecessary if it was a thermal exhaust port that only goes into one direction. I would have to re-watch the scene to be sure, but i doubt i recall it that incorrectly - basically, they flew their way trough the unfinished internal structure of the Death Star. That's also supported by some of them turning sideway and "leading some of them (pursuing TIEs) back to the surface.

Put simply, Picard has ZERO evidence that it was a thermal exhaust port, other than it being a shaft - and likely, it wasn't even that. He only claims so because he is a damn, bloody trek-wanking moron.

[Kythnos]

I feel like until you can explain if the floor or a single gravity was enough to stop a ship from cruising through your hull, or explaining why we should believe that phase cloak wouldn't store energy.

Before I give my answer as to why the "floor" stopped the characters I want to point out that it is flawed and does not answer all the problems of those scenes. Like how the characters are able to run while phased when they should not get any friction to use traction. So other than saying that I have put many more hours of thought into than the writers did.

This answer works...

The floor is covered in "Gravity plates" that project a 1G field almost completely unidirectionaly, I say that because we never see anyone crawling on the ceiling or people hair fall toward it. They Grav-field is holding them down because that is as far as they could fall. They maybe able to go through the floor if they could gain enough momentum, other wise it is like jumping on a trampoline.

Or why people can still see non-phased photons, or breath non-phased air?

It might be a misnomer to say "breath" as they might not need to, absorbing o2 from the non-phased air directly.

You should be able to add microwaves, and any part of the EM spectrum, to the list of thing that can hurt a phased ship, as it effects phased matter with little if any difference. So if they are using a "faraday cage" to harden their systems, that has just failed.

[Batman]

Actually, i am pretty damn sure that it wasn't even a shaft. They didn't fly in a straight line, and they had to "lock onto the strongest energy source", which would be unnecessary if it was a thermal exhaust port that only goes into one direction. I would have to re-watch the scene to be sure, but i doubt i recall it that incorrectly - basically, they flew their way trough the unfinished internal structure of the Death Star. That's also supported by some of them turning sideway and "leading some of them (pursuing TIEs) back to the surface.
Put simply, Picard has ZERO evidence that it was a thermal exhaust port, other than it being a shaft - and likely, it wasn't even that. He only claims so because he is a damn, bloody trek-wanking moron.

Just because it wasn't straight (which it definitely wasn't, by the way, several rebel fighters and pursuing TIEs ate it failing to negotiate a turn)
doesn't mean it wasn't a shaft. Mind you, anybody sane, or at least without the clear-cut intent to insist on their point even if any and all available evidence says it's wrong, saw what you and I did, namely the rebel forces cum pursuers navigating the unfinished parts of the DS2.
Mind you, if it were supposed to be a thermal exhaust port (for which there is exactly zero evidence, as there is for it being a shaft to begin with, as opposed to a natural side effect of the DS2 being barely more than half complete-I guess there being massive open spaces to maneuver through in skyscrapers under construction means there'll be large open shafts incorporated there when they're finished, too) all those bends are bound to do...interesting things to its possible throughput.
My point was even if one grants Picard's completely unsupported claims that
1)that shaft was there on purpose rather than simply a free way through the still unfinished parts of the DS2 and
2) it was to remain once construction finished,
that doesn't mean it'll do the Trek side any good as even if we grant all those unfounded assumptions there's no reason it has to be permanently open to space.

[Collossus]

Actually, i am pretty damn sure that it wasn't even a shaft. They didn't fly in a straight line, and they had to "lock onto the strongest energy source", which would be unnecessary if it was a thermal exhaust port that only goes into one direction. I would have to re-watch the scene to be sure, but i doubt i recall it that incorrectly - basically, they flew their way trough the unfinished internal structure of the Death Star. That's also supported by some of them turning sideway and "leading some of them (pursuing TIEs) back to the surface.
Put simply, Picard has ZERO evidence that it was a thermal exhaust port, other than it being a shaft - and likely, it wasn't even that. He only claims so because he is a damn, bloody trek-wanking moron.

Just because it wasn't straight (which it definitely wasn't, by the way, several rebel fighters and pursuing TIEs ate it failing to negotiate a turn)
doesn't mean it wasn't a shaft. Mind you, anybody sane, or at least without the clear-cut intent to insist on their point even if any and all available evidence says it's wrong, saw what you and I did, namely the rebel forces cum pursuers navigating the unfinished parts of the DS2.
Mind you, if it were supposed to be a thermal exhaust port (for which there is exactly zero evidence, as there is for it being a shaft to begin with, as opposed to a natural side effect of the DS2 being barely more than half complete-I guess there being massive open spaces to maneuver through in skyscrapers under construction means there'll be large open shafts incorporated there when they're finished, too) all those bends are bound to do...interesting things to its possible throughput.
My point was even if one grants Picard's completely unsupported claims that
1)that shaft was there on purpose rather than simply a free way through the still unfinished parts of the DS2 and
2) it was to remain once construction finished,
that doesn't mean it'll do the Trek side any good as even if we grant all those unfounded assumptions there's no reason it has to be permanently open to space.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TGMvadAFqLQ


watch from 5:10 to 5:20 the opening is built out from the main surface in a uniform "round" structure but once inside it is anything but, I am guessing this was somehow a service corridor perhaps for small shuttles or freighters to carry supplies directly deep into the structure to aid faster construction. naturally this means it wouldnt be used once the DS2 was completed.

[Srelex]

It was in the episode 'Outrageous Okona'. I'll see if I can dig up the exact quote.

[fallendragon]

Collossus .... I only see one mistake and if you can point out a spell checker I'd be more then willing to use it. As it is I do my best.

Norade, have you ever even watched StarTrek? and I have never said that the phase cloak is an effective weapon (or even one that is truely in the StarTrek arsonal). Yet, when your counter arguement to a piece of data is fucking magic PJ's, it is rather hard for me to take you seriously, as unlike Collossus, I find what a person has to say more important then how they say it.

Now for what I have to say.

phase cloak effected by denisity? At best the data for this is rather shaky.
phase cloak effected by light? The data contradicts itself.
phase cloak effected by heat? I have to say unlikely if i understand Star Fleet constuction correctly.
phase cloak effected by gas? Yes we have proof of this.
phase cloak effected by gravity? This is the best explaination of why personal don't fall through the floor, however there are problems with this theory, namly that the Enterprise when through asteroid gamma 601 (memory alpha for title of it) as the gravity was not switch off.

[Norade]

Collossus .... I only see one mistake and if you can point out a spell checker I'd be more then willing to use it. As it is I do my best.

Norade, have you ever even watched StarTrek? and I have never said that the phase cloak is an effective weapon (or even one that is truely in the StarTrek arsonal). Yet, when your counter arguement to a piece of data is fucking magic PJ's, it is rather hard for me to take you seriously, as unlike Collossus, I find what a person has to say more important then how they say it.

Now for what I have to say.

phase cloak effected by denisity? At best the data for this is rather shaky.
phase cloak effected by light? The data contradicts itself.
phase cloak effected by heat? I have to say unlikely if i understand Star Fleet constuction correctly.
phase cloak effected by gas? Yes we have proof of this.
phase cloak effected by gravity? This is the best explaination of why personal don't fall through the floor, however there are problems with this theory, namly that the Enterprise when through asteroid gamma 601 (memory alpha for title of it) as the gravity was not switch off.

The obvious counterpoint to the last bit is that the gravity of the asteroid was far less than 1G.

[Collossus]

Norade, are you sure that the poeple on Startrek are the only ones half brain dead? As your explaination, frankly, sucks and is something I'd expect out of a 6 year old.

Actually there are 4.
"Norade, are you sure (1) the people(2) on Star(3)Trek are the only ones half brain dead? as your explanation(4) frankly sucks, and is something I'd expect out of a 6 year old."

Yes there is only 4 mistakes and only two of those are actual mispellings and a few missed spaces and a few too many commas..... this is beside the point I was trying to make and which you failed to see which is your quote about his argument looking like a 6 year old when Literally your statement does.

[Collossus]

FWIW It wasn’t a big deal I was just trying to make a point about how I am all the time seeing people insulting other about their arguments and calling them stupid, ignorant, etc all the while sounding like they belong in special ed.

As for a spell checker I normally prep messages outside of here (outlook, word) then insert, it’s a quick ctrl-c ctrl-v and you make sure you didn’t miss anything.

[Collossus]

Why did Data call a fish an amphibian?

LOL when the hell did he do that!?......

I'm seconding this. Where did that happen? I just ran:

/scripts$ grep -i 'amphib' *
Binary file tng-719.txt matches

One match out of all the scripts to TNG, DS9, and the TNG movies.

tng-719 is "Genesis"... and the thing he was describing was an amphibian. (Troi transformed into a giant tadpole)


It seems to be just yet another false thing that has never been questioned and accepted anyway. If this happened, provide a precise citation. If not, stop fucking saying it.

http://www.agonybooth.com/recaps/Star_T ... spx?Page=3

I looks like he wasnt directly talking about a fish but some joke on the holodeck, the actual statement is about 2/3 down.

[fallendragon]

Norade... maybe I am missing something, but would you mind explaining that last post?

Collossus, I am well aware I have spelling and grammer problems (and the special ed bit is hilarious), which is why I don't call anyone out on them. However, to me, there is a differance between faulty points and faulty delivery, and I will hammer people (on both sides) on faulty points.

[Collossus]

Norade... maybe I am missing something, but would you mind explaining that last post?

Collossus, I am well aware I have spelling and grammer problems (and the special ed bit is hilarious), which is why I don't call anyone out on them. However, to me, there is a differance between faulty points and faulty delivery, and I will hammer people (on both sides) on faulty points.

agreed, thats why I put the (pet peeve) disclaimer on my first response, it had nothing to do with arguments and everthing to do with delivery.
which may or may not be an issue for some.