Water Fluoridation: good or bad?

Trytostaydead · Post by **Trytostaydead** » 2003-02-24 03:22pm

I've seen evidence on both sides, and frankley I am on the fence on the issue of if it is bad for you or not or more like, if it helps more than it hurts you. What I was trying to address was that weather or not it is good for you, I disagree with the delievery system of it.

I don't get what you're saying. As to whether or not it is good for you, the ONLY plus side that it receives is less trips to the dentist. Just from a cursory exam of articles published the ill effects range from mental to cellular necrosis. So it's a toss up between teeth or poison.

Cpt_Frank · Post by **Cpt_Frank** » 2003-02-24 03:27pm

It's pretty toxic from what I've heard.
Then again maybe if you consume it with the drinking water your whole life your body learns to cope with it.

BlkbrryTheGreat · Post by **BlkbrryTheGreat** » 2003-02-24 03:28pm

Trytostaydead wrote:
I've seen evidence on both sides, and frankley I am on the fence on the issue of if it is bad for you or not or more like, if it helps more than it hurts you. What I was trying to address was that weather or not it is good for you, I disagree with the delievery system of it.
I don't get what you're saying. As to whether or not it is good for you, the ONLY plus side that it receives is less trips to the dentist. Just from a cursory exam of articles published the ill effects range from mental to cellular necrosis. So it's a toss up between teeth or poison.

There are better ways to keep your teeth clean then being forced to drink poison. Read the article I posted genius....

Trytostaydead · Post by **Trytostaydead** » 2003-02-24 03:30pm

Cpt_Frank wrote:It's pretty toxic from what I've heard.
Then again maybe if you consume it with the drinking water your whole life your body learns to cope with it.

Your body can cope with it a LITTLE bit. Your body has its anti-oxidant abilities, but Fluoride is pretty hard hitting stuff, and your body as to take care of its own naturally produced free radicals.

Knife · Post by **Knife** » 2003-02-24 03:32pm

BlkbrryTheGreat wrote:
Trytostaydead wrote:
I've seen evidence on both sides, and frankley I am on the fence on the issue of if it is bad for you or not or more like, if it helps more than it hurts you. What I was trying to address was that weather or not it is good for you, I disagree with the delievery system of it.
I don't get what you're saying. As to whether or not it is good for you, the ONLY plus side that it receives is less trips to the dentist. Just from a cursory exam of articles published the ill effects range from mental to cellular necrosis. So it's a toss up between teeth or poison.
There are better ways to keep your teeth clean then being forced to drink poison. Read the article I posted genius....

Which is my entire point, in small dosses like the one's you get at the dentist and the one's in toothpaste, its a benifit. Appearently, when ingested in large quanities, its bad. The delievery system is bad, its in you drinking water, you cooking, your shower. The delievery is bad with out even thinking about what the fuck they are putting in the water. This is also starting a precedent, whats next? Before, chlorine and such are there to clean the water. Flouride is there to clean you, not the water which is why I disagree with it.

Trytostaydead · Post by **Trytostaydead** » 2003-02-24 03:33pm

BlkbrryTheGreat wrote:
Trytostaydead wrote:
I've seen evidence on both sides, and frankley I am on the fence on the issue of if it is bad for you or not or more like, if it helps more than it hurts you. What I was trying to address was that weather or not it is good for you, I disagree with the delievery system of it.
I don't get what you're saying. As to whether or not it is good for you, the ONLY plus side that it receives is less trips to the dentist. Just from a cursory exam of articles published the ill effects range from mental to cellular necrosis. So it's a toss up between teeth or poison.
There are better ways to keep your teeth clean then being forced to drink poison. Read the article I posted genius....

Why are you arguing with me? I KNOW fluoride fucks up the body. I was saying the ONLY advantage you can get from fluoride is keeping the teeth clean as opposed to a myriad of health problems.

BlkbrryTheGreat · Post by **BlkbrryTheGreat** » 2003-02-24 03:39pm

Trytostaydead wrote:
BlkbrryTheGreat wrote:
Trytostaydead wrote: I don't get what you're saying. As to whether or not it is good for you, the ONLY plus side that it receives is less trips to the dentist. Just from a cursory exam of articles published the ill effects range from mental to cellular necrosis. So it's a toss up between teeth or poison.
There are better ways to keep your teeth clean then being forced to drink poison. Read the article I posted genius....
Why are you arguing with me? I KNOW fluoride fucks up the body. I was saying the ONLY advantage you can get from fluoride is keeping the teeth clean as opposed to a myriad of health problems.

I thought you were suggesting that it was actually "a toss up between teeth or poison", not realizing that this was a sarcastic statement. Oops.

BlkbrryTheGreat · Post by **BlkbrryTheGreat** » 2003-02-24 03:39pm

Btw, what does everyone think of the article I posted a link to?

Joe · Post by **Joe** » 2003-02-24 03:40pm

Knife wrote:
BlkbrryTheGreat wrote:
Trytostaydead wrote: I don't get what you're saying. As to whether or not it is good for you, the ONLY plus side that it receives is less trips to the dentist. Just from a cursory exam of articles published the ill effects range from mental to cellular necrosis. So it's a toss up between teeth or poison.
There are better ways to keep your teeth clean then being forced to drink poison. Read the article I posted genius....
Which is my entire point, in small dosses like the one's you get at the dentist and the one's in toothpaste, its a benifit. Appearently, when ingested in large quanities, its bad. The delievery system is bad, its in you drinking water, you cooking, your shower. The delievery is bad with out even thinking about what the fuck they are putting in the water. This is also starting a precedent, whats next? Before, chlorine and such are there to clean the water. Flouride is there to clean you, not the water which is why I disagree with it.

Actually, some localities have enough chlorine to sanitize a swimming pool in their water. (no kidding, I work at a swimming pool shop during summer and it's surprising what you'll find in tapwater).

You're bordering on a slippery slope fallacy; water fluoridation will not necessarily lead to more extreme measures such as throwing in high quantities of chlorine and vitamins. However, I would still argue against fluoridation simply on the basis that it is, quite simply, mass medication, and as long as the government controls the water supply it should not administer the medication, harmless or not, to everyone via tap water, because 1) the case for water fluoridation is pretty thin already and 2) some people just don't want the chemical in their body.

Trytostaydead · Post by **Trytostaydead** » 2003-02-24 03:43pm

BlkbrryTheGreat wrote:Btw, what does everyone think of the article I posted a link to?

Unfortunately not too much. Try http://www.pubmed.com and run searches to your hearts desire. These are published scientific articles.

Joe · Post by **Joe** » 2003-02-24 03:44pm

BlkbrryTheGreat wrote:Btw, what does everyone think of the article I posted a link to?

I like Murray's arguments. It's good.

phongn · Post by **phongn** » 2003-02-24 08:03pm

BlkbrryTheGreat wrote:Btw, what does everyone think of the article I posted a link to?

Very little of it; half it if seems to be ranting. The articles another poster did are better, though only the summaries (I'll probably hit some of the academic search engines through university later on).

phongn · Post by **phongn** » 2003-02-24 08:06pm

Trytostaydead wrote:Effect of fluoride exposure on synaptic structure of brain areas related to learning-memory in mice]

[Article in Chinese]

Zhang Z, Xu X, Shen X, Xu X.

Department of Biology, Zhejiang Normal University, Jinhua 321004, China.

The learning-memory behavior was tested in mice on a Y-maze after drinking different concentration of sodium fluoride. The impairment on the structure of Gray 1 synaptic interface in the CA3 area of mice hippocampus were quantitatively analyzed by electron microscopy and computer image processing appliance. The main results are as follows: the learning ability of mice drinking high concentration of fluoride presented remarkable deterioration, the thickness of post-synaptic density (PSD) was decreased, and the width of synaptic cleft was remarkably increased. The results suggested that the impairment on the learning capability induced by fluorosis may be closely related with the pathological changes of synaptic structure in the brain of mice.

This is a more interesting abstract though it doesn't say what concentration is used.

beyond hope · Post by **beyond hope** » 2003-02-24 08:19pm

It's all a plot by the evil commies... fluoridation today, collective farms tomorrow.

No, seriously, better fluoride in the water than bad teeth. I lived in England for 3 years, I've seen the horror with my own eyes.

Exonerate · Post by **Exonerate** » 2003-02-24 09:33pm

I used to live in Hawaii, and they didn't fluorinate the water... It tasted a hell lot better that way, and the cleaniness of the water wasn't a very big concern because it was already very sanitary.

Howedar · Post by **Howedar** » 2003-02-24 09:53pm

Its grrrrrrrreat!

BlkbrryTheGreat · Post by **BlkbrryTheGreat** » 2003-02-24 11:40pm

Yea, I know what you mean. Hawaiian water is easyily the best water I've ever had in my entire life. Beats any beverage that I can think of.

Mr Flibble · Post by **Mr Flibble** » 2003-02-25 01:27am

It all depends on the dosage. And remember in most drinking water (at least here in australia) you are getting chlorine, which is the next halogen down, so only slightly better. IIRC the Fluoride dose in water (again at least here) is fairly low, and at alevel the body can cope with, it is after all required by the body to protect the teeth, in low levels. I think over chlorination is more likely to cause damage. In the city I live in our water is some of the worst in the country. If you get a little 9v battery and a couple of wires as electrodes, and stick it in tap water, you will get quite a bit of chlorine gas coming from it.
Fluoridation of water has probably saved me a lot of cavities, as I was lazt about brushing my teeth as a kid. Whether the government should be forcing medication on the population is another question. I think the better way to do it, would be to encourage brushing of teeth.

Knife · Post by **Knife** » 2003-02-25 02:34am

You're bordering on a slippery slope fallacy; water fluoridation will not necessarily lead to more extreme measures such as throwing in high quantities of chlorine and vitamins.

It has the honor of being the first and therefore the precedent. That is what concerns me.