SDN Worlds 4 Commentary Thread IV

[Alyrium Denryle]

The embassy crisis......has been resolved.

But the Amplitur is on the loose. Who knows what it will get up to in 24 hours?

We need Jack Shroomauer! Only he can break enough fingers to find it in 24 hours!

Problem is, the Amplitur has given you a bigger problem. And the Centrality has no idea about the Amplitur's role in the disaster.

That is what an upcomming demonstration by a high level telepath will show you is possible.

Non-psionic species who use telepaths just have an outside context problem with respect to the abilities of a well trained psionicist.

[Simon_Jester]

Well, honestly that depends on how savvy they are to the nature of the problem. Not everyone is equally blindsided in this respect.

[Alyrium Denryle]

Well, honestly that depends on how savvy they are to the nature of the problem. Not everyone is equally blindsided in this respect.

True. However from their statements in public, they at least appear to be. It would not need to be a craboid... any political dissident or terrorist group could have a telepath strong enough to glyph an unshielded mind into thinking that the Shepistani's fired first.

[Simon_Jester]

One, yes. Dozens?

That sounds... trickier. At that point, it comes down to assertions about the absolute power of espers in the SDNW4 setting, something we've all danced around and tried rather carefully to avoid.

[Steve]

It does seem that the Amplitur are being credited with a lot more telepathic capability than most of us had envisioned for Espers. But given they're a race that is build around such for communication and hive activity, it's not too surprising they'd be capable of far greater "bandwidth" psionically than Humans.

[Alyrium Denryle]

It does seem that the Amplitur are being credited with a lot more telepathic capability than most of us had envisioned for Espers. But given they're a race that is build around such for communication and hive activity, it's not too surprising they'd be capable of far greater "bandwidth" psionically than Humans.

Oh yeah. On the other hand, strictly speaking you only need to glyph the minds of one person, or a few in rapid succession. You only need one person in a tense situation to pull a trigger. Playing on a pre-existing fear would make it easier, as you dont have to do fine-management.

I am of course modeling from B5 teeps, which until you get to Lyta and transcendent beings are not over-strong by sci-fi standards. I figure an Amplitur as described would be in Lyta range.

[Shroom Man 777]

How did the froggies manage to guess exactly what happened at the embassy?

EDIT:

Can anyone tell me what is and isn't allowed to the Centrality ESPer games? No BFGs? How about null fields?

[Alyrium Denryle]

How did the froggies manage to guess exactly what happened at the embassy?

EDIT:

Can anyone tell me what is and isn't allowed to the Centrality ESPer games? No BFGs? How about null fields?

it is just the easiest way to do it. The point of the demonstration was to show how a humanoid rather than a craboid could get the same results, given what the Sheppos said happened.

I tried to think of an easier way, and could not. Mind puppeting is hard. Mind wiping takes too much time and the plan has too many moving parts etc

I went through from first principles, and mind-glyphs would be easiest.

[Shroom Man 777]

Hurm, yeah. If the Ranoidians went like "How do we use our psychic powers to fuck that situation up", I guess they would come to the same conclusion you and I and the craboids have come up with.

Anyway, what can/t my bragulanoids bring to the ESPer tourney? No null fields? How about hand guns?

[Simon_Jester]

I honestly think, Alyrium, that you're making unwarranted assumptions about the sheer psychic defenselessness of the Centrality. They're not completely clueless about psionics; psychic abilities figure prominently in the entire history of their nation for something like a thousand years. The idea that they might be on the receiving end of organized mind-war by some competent telepath should hardly come as an utter shock to them.

Hell, if they don't have competent telepaths at the Shepistani embassy (plausible, since espers can't operate in Shepistan very effectively, even on a routine 'travel in public' basis), they shouldn't be caught flat-footed.

[Shroom Man 777]

Indeed. They're a military junta of psykers. Their ambassadors and dignitaries routinely use psykerisms. They're no slouches in this department.

[Ryan Thunder]

How easy is it to build and power blitzschlag and null-field generators?

[Steve]

Probably not too hard. They can be anything from portable generators to massive banks of generators to cover entire cities.

[Alyrium Denryle]

I honestly think, Alyrium, that you're making unwarranted assumptions about the sheer psychic defenselessness of the Centrality. They're not completely clueless about psionics; psychic abilities figure prominently in the entire history of their nation for something like a thousand years. The idea that they might be on the receiving end of organized mind-war by some competent telepath should hardly come as an utter shock to them.

Hell, if they don't have competent telepaths at the Shepistani embassy (plausible, since espers can't operate in Shepistan very effectively, even on a routine 'travel in public' basis), they shouldn't be caught flat-footed.

It shouldn't but their actions do not indicate that they have considered the possibility, which is what Magus is going from. He is not about to enter the mind of someone who did not volunteer, save to curtail chaos, and that will be sending, not receiving.

Even so, I left plenty of room for the Ambassador to come back at him for being presumptuous and did so intentionally.

If a telepath (who was not exceedingly weak) had been present in their embassy, they would have at least been able to warn the embassy staff before their blocks fell. It would have been in the distress call perhaps. Their government would have come back with "There was a telepath in the embassy who would have known if there was a psionic assault"

While they should not be clueless, they are acting in that manner. And honestly, if you are a fascist state using telepaths as a means of control, you may not really put things that are not mind reading, puppeteering etc in the scope of your thought.

I am perfectly happy to modify Magus' affect however.

[Alyrium Denryle]

Alright. Edited the exposition appropriately to deal properly with what said ambassador ought rationally have known.

The gist is the same. Details different.

[Tanasinn]

Posted something re: our upcoming engagement with the pirates.

To those involved - simply say something if you're not liking something/I jumped to a conclusion/whatever, and I'll edit it. I'm used to writing that is a little less collaborationist, so I want to avoid stepping on any toes.

tl;dr version: Brookes' plan is to jump in at the fringe of the engagement zone, springing/spotting any traps without getting caught in them and beginning bombardment. Her assets will transmit safe jump data to their Atlantean comrades, who will jump in closer to kill anyone running, making use of the longer effective range on their beam weapons vs. the Humanists' railguns. While waiting for the Atlanteans, the Humanist forces will be rapidly advancing. This lets them minimize the time frame in which the Atlanteans are stuck out on their own - the first arrivals will be the fleet screens, with their better acceleration profiles. This should prove useful to the Atlanteans, since the most likely opponents to get close will be light high-acceleration craft, I imagine.

[Lonestar]

How easy is it to build and power blitzschlag and null-field generators?

BFGs are a mature technology, they've been around for 450+ years.

[Simon_Jester]

How easy is it to build and power blitzschlag and null-field generators?

Probably not too hard. They can be anything from portable generators to massive banks of generators to cover entire cities.

Degree of sophistication might vary from place to place- issues like relative cost, miniaturization, service life of components- but it does seem like they're a fairly common equipment. I'm not sure whether you could build one using 20th/21st century technology even if you knew exactly how they worked, but for our societies they're not that hard to deal with. As Lonestar points out, "mature technology-" and one that has to be fairly easy to mass produce or you couldn't design entire societies around its use.

It shouldn't but their actions do not indicate that they have considered the possibility, which is what Magus is going from...

Even so, I left plenty of room for the Ambassador to come back at him for being presumptuous and did so intentionally.

My inference from a case like this would be that whoever did it was not merely a powerful telepath but also, in a vague but general sense, a "smooth operator." Someone who is adept at dealing with enemies that have psychic protection (mechanical or innate), good at overwhelming them by brute force, surprise or by the use of proxies.

Someone who may well have techniques that the Ranoids do not know, or are prone to underestimate...

If a telepath (who was not exceedingly weak) had been present in their embassy, they would have at least been able to warn the embassy staff before their blocks fell. It would have been in the distress call perhaps. Their government would have come back with "There was a telepath in the embassy who would have known if there was a psionic assault"

Well... should have been able to. Again, this is one of the problems with making strong positive statements about what telepaths are capable of in-setting; the system works differently from place to place. For instance, in one of the earlier descriptions of telepathic combat in fiction:

"Attentive as he was to ________'s thought-screen, the Patrolman was ready when it weakened slightly and a thought began to seep through, directed at that peculiar ball of force. He blanketed it savagely, before it could even begin to take form, and attacked the screen so viciously that the _________ had either to restore full coverage instantly or else die there and then."

"Kinnison feared that force-ball no longer. He still did not know what it was; but he had learned that, whatever its nature might be, it was operated or controlled by thought. Therefore it was and would remain harmless; for if the pirate chief softened his screen enough to emit a thought he would never think again."

There are also legitimate questions about range: if I'm a Centralist telepath on Montgomery in Shepistan, it would hardly be a surprise to find that I can't reach the nearest Centralist authorities telepathically. They're hundreds of light-years away.

Posted something re: our upcoming engagement with the pirates.

To those involved - simply say something if you're not liking something/I jumped to a conclusion/whatever, and I'll edit it. I'm used to writing that is a little less collaborationist, so I want to avoid stepping on any toes.

tl;dr version: Brookes' plan is to jump in at the fringe of the engagement zone, springing/spotting any traps without getting caught in them and beginning bombardment. Her assets will transmit safe jump data to their Atlantean comrades, who will jump in closer to kill anyone running, making use of the longer effective range on their beam weapons vs. the Humanists' railguns. While waiting for the Atlanteans, the Humanist forces will be rapidly advancing. This lets them minimize the time frame in which the Atlanteans are stuck out on their own - the first arrivals will be the fleet screens, with their better acceleration profiles. This should prove useful to the Atlanteans, since the most likely opponents to get close will be light high-acceleration craft, I imagine.

I like the story so far; hope I see more soon.

[PeZook]

MIGHTY BRAGULAN POETRY!

EDIT:

Tanasinn, by "Wild Space" do you mean the K-Zone area under that name?

[Tanasinn]

I've generally used the term "wild space" to refer to those sectors not under the control of a nation, so not so much.

[Shroom Man 777]

Hellboy!

[Alyrium Denryle]

There are also legitimate questions about range: if I'm a Centralist telepath on Montgomery in Shepistan, it would hardly be a surprise to find that I can't reach the nearest Centralist authorities telepathically. They're hundreds of light-years away.

Well, I mean reaching the other embassy staff. IIRC the distress signal relayed that the embassy was being attacked by the Shepistanis. Including "and is under psionic attack from within" would have been included had a telepath been there to jam said attack for even a few seconds--even on the comms operator only, and warn them of the assault. They have had had someone there who WAS telepathic, but if there was, he was quickly overwhelmed.

I am operating on the Ranoideans internal theories regarding energy propagation via telepathy of course. A weaker telepath concentrating on themselves or one other is going to be able to block a stronger one trying to affect the minds of multiple people... but would have little to no chance of stopping a direct assault on them. Still, Magus is going on the Most Likely Scenario(tm), there may be many variations depending on the details he has no way of knowing. Hell, for all he knows an enemy telepath had been in there for months implanting behavioral conditioning triggers while everyone slept. Still, the scenario he went over is the most simple, and has the fewest moving parts where failure could creep in.

My inference from a case like this would be that whoever did it was not merely a powerful telepath but also, in a vague but general sense, a "smooth operator." Someone who is adept at dealing with enemies that have psychic protection (mechanical or innate), good at overwhelming them by brute force, surprise or by the use of proxies.

True. However that will depend on tactical doctrine.

For the Ranoideans, because we dont (for the obvious reasons) use psionicists much in external intelligence gathering save to mentally condition operatives or aboard ships (because of null fields etc planet side, and the fact that everyone knows most Ranoideans have SOME psionic ability, even if weak), they may not necessarily think of the really complex ways in which someone could use psionics offensively. Oh sure, they may think of them, but they dont have the operational experience doing it to be able to evaluate which one will work best, and there are too many unknowns. Hence the "simplest possible modus opperandi" approach, which happens to converge with what Shroom actually wrote.

What they are really good at is psionic defense in internal data security and operations coordination. They have a certain operational bias in that respect as well.

I have given long thought to how an intelligence service operating off of very conspicuous psionic frog people would have to operate. You cant use them for external data collection unless you are scanning ships or mind-reading an ambassador outside of a null field. You stand out too much. Everyone will see you and automatically be suspicious. Not a good recipe for success. Gestalting minds together defensively or too coordinate actions though, that is doable.

[Force Lord]

SUDDENLY FLASH STALIN

[Siege]

SUDDENLY FLASH STALIN

Wildspace pileup syndrome strikes again!

[Simon_Jester]

Gotta say, Flash Stalin has a pretty kickass 'stache.

That thing's probably worth five or ten points in naval warfare by itself...

Well, I mean reaching the other embassy staff. IIRC the distress signal relayed that the embassy was being attacked by the Shepistanis. Including "and is under psionic attack from within" would have been included had a telepath been there to jam said attack for even a few seconds--even on the comms operator only, and warn them of the assault. They have had had someone there who WAS telepathic, but if there was, he was quickly overwhelmed.

In light of FL's latest, they may not have- since (as Ranoideans well know) it is nigh-impossible for espers of any kind to operate in Shepistan under normal conditions, it would be an incredibly unpopular posting for telepaths, and also a bloody useless place to send them because they can't leave the embassy. The only reason to bother is to have a defense against telepathic infiltrators... and Shepistan is the last place in the galaxy you'd expect to see your embassy come under telepathic attack.

It may be that the Centralists rely so heavily on their own espers that their standard anti-psi defense is simply to have lots of experienced telepaths around; if an Amplitur tried such a stunt on their home territory said craboid might just get swarmed by weaker but numerous combat espers. But in Shepistan their normal defense isn't present... and they have no doctrine for how to defend an installation against psychic attack other than "put some of my own psychics there."

I think that would explain what happened.