The Salvation War: Pantheocide Epilogue Up

[Simon_Jester]

There seems to be some sort of 'soul body' of a person which embodies their own self-image. I'd guess that amputees will find they've got limbs back, while transpersons will appear as they wished.

So by that criteria, since Kitten enjoyed being led around on leash and never spoke, she would be born as a mute? Will Michael Jackson show up white?

Remember, she does answer questions when asked, and shows no great reluctance to do so; she just chooses to let someone else speak for her as part of the whole 'submissive' thing. Does kitten think of herself as mute, as being unable to speak? Or does she think of herself as being able to speak but choosing not to?

This is not a trivial question, and it's definitely not one I'm qualified to answer. If I had to guess, though, I'd imagine the latter.

There is such a thing as the mind's self-image of the body; it's a real phenomenon that has a lot to do with (for example) cases of body dysmorphia, or phantom limb syndrome: the mind tells you that something ought to be there when it isn't, or ought not be there when it is. Given that mindstates (souls) are a very real and measurable phenomenon in the Salvation War setting, I wouldn't at all be surprised to learn that Second Life bodies are designed around the mind's self-image of the body.

I mean at a bare minimum, someone who dies of beheading can't very well wake up in their Second Life with no head. You couldn't just use state-of-body at death. And if you used a cloned body, you'd wind up with something that relies entirely on DNA and the like... which second lifers do not; organic chemistry alone would not explain how their bodies could function. So since by all appearances Second Life bodies are based neither on physical condition at death nor on DNA, the mind's self-image of what the body ought to be is as likely a case as anything else.

[Stuart]

That's a pretty much perfect summation of the situation Simon. On all counts.

kitten isn't mute and speaks quite normally; she just lets her boyfriend make all the decisions and obeys the instructions he gives her. There are plenty of parts where she speaks and even makes decisions in his absence.

The mental body image thing is also spot-on. That's exactly how I had imagined it.

[spartasman]

So essentially, whatever you're mind perceives your body as being, that is what you end up as when you respawn in Hell?

I'm sorry, but that really does not make any sense. What about Anorexic girls who percieve themselves as being fat? Would they not show up in Hell obese? Do all the jackasses in the world who walk around like they have 12" penises show up in Hell sporting such? What about middle-aged men who secretly want to be women but have a wife and kids, do they show up in Hell as women and have to explain that to their family?

It probably doesn't really matter as far as the story goes, but "you end up as whatever you percieve yourself as being" just seems like a bunch of Jiminy Cricket bullshit to me.

[xthetenth]

So essentially, whatever you're mind perceives your body as being, that is what you end up as when you respawn in Hell?

I'm sorry, but that really does not make any sense. What about Anorexic girls who perceive themselves as being fat? Would they not show up in Hell obese? Do all the jackasses in the world who walk around like they have 12" penises show up in Hell sporting such? What about middle-aged men who secretly want to be women but have a wife and kids, do they show up in Hell as women and have to explain that to their family?

It probably doesn't really matter as far as the story goes, but "you end up as whatever you perceive yourself as being" just seems like a bunch of Jiminy Cricket bullshit to me.

It makes perfect sense. What remains constant (and is therefore likely what the process behind the gate has to work with)? The memories, which likely means the whole brain state goes with them. So what do you make the body for this soul with? Humans have to have a subconscious knowledge of their body layout to be able to touch parts of their body without looking, so just use that. Then slap on the pigmentation (and hair) from memories and you've pretty much got a human body replica. What a person wants doesn't factor into it, that's too unreliable, but they have to have pretty good data in nearly all cases just to be able to touch themselves in arbitrary places in sensory deprivation. Sure, there are exceptions (I don't really think that body dysmorphia counts, because there isn't really a bodily feeling the way there is with phantom limb syndrome or a loss of this ability listed as a symptom, I doubt it would affect this source of information, although someone might have different pigmentation as a result), but in nearly all cases this would result in an accurate copy. The fiddly bit to get working right would be hair because it's insensate.

[Junghalli]

The fiddly bit to get working right would be hair because it's insensate.

Easy solution: initially create the body as hairless, let the hair grow out naturally from there.

[Sharl]

Easy solution: initially create the body as hairless, let the hair grow out naturally from there.

Y'mean like in Riverworld (the books, not the two (crappy) TV adaptations)?

[JBG]

Easy solution: initially create the body as hairless, let the hair grow out naturally from there.

Y'mean like in Riverworld (the books, not the two (crappy) TV adaptations)?

I was not aware of TV adaptations, Are they as bad as the Hitch Hikers Guides adaptation?

[CaptainChewbacca]

Well Riverworld was done as a made-for-scifi movie, up to the same caliber as Giant Shark vs. Megasquid and Golem.

[Jusu]

Back, back you damned essays and papers and anime I won't be watching this season...


So, something popped into my head about portals. Could you create a portal in space from ground? I dunno if it's been discussed, but it's just a case of 'huh, wonder what happens if I said this'.

[GrandMasterTerwynn]

Back, back you damned essays and papers and anime I won't be watching this season...


So, something popped into my head about portals. Could you create a portal in space from ground? I dunno if it's been discussed, but it's just a case of 'huh, wonder what happens if I said this'.

You have to pay the difference in gravitational potential energy between the two portals, if memory serves. There is a notable example from the stories where a U2 flies through a portal and crashes because its engine couldn't supply the extra power needed to keep running.

[xthetenth]

Back, back you damned essays and papers and anime I won't be watching this season...


So, something popped into my head about portals. Could you create a portal in space from ground? I dunno if it's been discussed, but it's just a case of 'huh, wonder what happens if I said this'.

You have to pay the difference in gravitational potential energy between the two portals, if memory serves. There is a notable example from the stories where a U2 flies through a portal and crashes because its engine couldn't supply the extra power needed to keep running.

Also, on the rules, how do portals behave once created? Are they affected by gravity (or some other mechanism to keep them at the same altitude, such as being massively resistant to changes in altitude for some reason) and do they retain the velocity of their frame of reference when made? Those seem like what you'd need to keep a portal in moving orbit so you aren't just limited to putting them up in a geocentric orbit and working from there.

[DKeith2011]

Portals become more difficult to open as altitude increases, eventually becoming impossible to open at some point. Specific mention was made of not being able to open a portal to resupply the International Space Station.

I seem to remember a caveat that it might be possible to open portals onto other planets in the same dimension though. The trick would be getting a sensitive to the destination in the first place.

[kilopi505]

When is book 3 coming?

[Mayabird]

It will be started when it is started and not a moment sooner.

Apparently I didn't say this before but I will say this now. Any more questions/begging/asshattery about when the last book is coming will be barreled because I am not going to put up with page upon page of spam from whiny impatient teenagers and counter-spam from other whiny teenagers who are more patient but feel the need to get some punches in. If I have to barrel too much stuff I will lock this thread. Don't make me have to be mean. I'd prefer to save that for people who type badly.

[Darth Yan]

stuart told me that lords of war might not be written at this point; unless the torennts go down then no it won't. fortunately, it's about 7 months before writing starts so it may be possible. If not, then the series is quote and quote "killed".

[Mayabird]

By the way, this is what I mean by bad typing. See me after class.

Stuart told me that Lords of War might not be written at this point; unless the torrents go down then no it won't. Fortunately, it's about 7 months before writing starts so it may be possible. If not, then the series is quote unquote "killed".

So it *might* be June 2011. However, don't anybody start bitching if you don't see it on June 1. It will be started if/when it is started.

[lord Martiya]

So it *might* be June 2011. However, don't anybody start bitching if you don't see it on June 1. It will be started if/when it is started.

If not, we find the guy who made that torrent and we burn him at the stake.

[Arachnidus]

So it *might* be June 2011. However, don't anybody start bitching if you don't see it on June 1. It will be started if/when it is started.

If not, we find the guy who made that torrent and we burn him at the stake.

I think that's already happening, proverbially, anyway. From a financial/lawful standpoint...

[Mayabird]

Alright, enough tough-guy stuff and discussion about the torrents. We already went through this and that flamefest been done and split and locked. If you really want to say or ask something, PM me.

[Mayabird]

I said that was enough about the torrents. It's gone to HoS. Have a nice day and learn to read while you're at it.
[line PM me if you actually have something to say]

[Arachnidus]

Well, back on the topic of the story...something's been bugging me about Hell that I don't think I've seen mentioned; seeing as it (loosely) follows Dante's Inferno's "ring" structure(non euclidean geometry, for example), then how accurate were the descriptions of Hell in The Inferno, in the TSW verse? As in, Ring 9 being a frozen wasteland(without three-headed Satan standing in the middle/out the other side with Judas, Brutus and Cassius in his mouths), the Phlegethon being comprised of boiling blood, etc.

[Edward Yee]

I don't recall blood or boiling mentioned anywhere near the Battle of the Phlegethon River scenes, so I'm guessing that in the TSW-verse Dante Aligheri added creative license to what was shown to him. Although, the original version of Armageddon I believe had Judas, Brutus, Cassius on ice in Ring 9 with a spot saved for Robert S. McNamara. (Let us never let Stuart near Call of Duty: Black Ops...)

[Simon_Jester]

Well, back on the topic of the story...something's been bugging me about Hell that I don't think I've seen mentioned; seeing as it (loosely) follows Dante's Inferno's "ring" structure(non euclidean geometry, for example), then how accurate were the descriptions of Hell in The Inferno, in the TSW verse? As in, Ring 9 being a frozen wasteland(without three-headed Satan standing in the middle/out the other side with Judas, Brutus and Cassius in his mouths), the Phlegethon being comprised of boiling blood, etc.

One interpretation that Aligheri was a nephilim who was given visions of Hell by some demon but managed to stay more or less sane and made a certain amount of art out of it. In which case some of the elements of Inferno would be substantially true, while others would just be trippy shit the demon projecting to his mind threw in.

[Arachnidus]

I don't recall blood or boiling mentioned anywhere near the Battle of the Phlegethon River scenes, so I'm guessing that in the TSW-verse Dante Aligheri added creative license to what was shown to him. Although, the original version of Armageddon I believe had Judas, Brutus, Cassius on ice in Ring 9 with a spot saved for Robert S. McNamara. (Let us never let Stuart near Call of Duty: Black Ops...)

Well, back on the topic of the story...something's been bugging me about Hell that I don't think I've seen mentioned; seeing as it (loosely) follows Dante's Inferno's "ring" structure(non euclidean geometry, for example), then how accurate were the descriptions of Hell in The Inferno, in the TSW verse? As in, Ring 9 being a frozen wasteland(without three-headed Satan standing in the middle/out the other side with Judas, Brutus and Cassius in his mouths), the Phlegethon being comprised of boiling blood, etc.

One interpretation that Aligheri was a nephilim who was given visions of Hell by some demon but managed to stay more or less sane and made a certain amount of art out of it. In which case some of the elements of Inferno would be substantially true, while others would just be trippy shit the demon projecting to his mind threw in.

I had a feeling it'd be something like this. Just wondering, seeing as I recently read the book for a school assignment(high school), and all though I was already familiar with it before reading Armageddon and the actual work itself, I just wanted to see if there was any nice nods. This really helps for the imagery in the battle scenes, as well as the hellscape in general .

[Ethesis]

There had been some mention of a possible novel with interactions with the other "gods" in further worlds. I've been checking back from time to time to see if anyone has developed anything like that. Instead, it seems most of the area Board index » Fiction » User Fiction has gone moribund.

Well, waiting for it to come back to life ...