INTERPOL Seeks Wikileaks founder on Rape Charges

[aerius]

I'm not sure if this goes better here or in the other thread, but way to go Alberta, way to go.

[Commander 598]

He doesn't seem to be all that smart. He could've at least held out for lots of money and then retired to a personal island somewhere...instead of dumps a truckload of mostly minor memos and pisses off a dozen or more countries in the process and not much else. And this is after he became wanted for possibly legit rape charges. Also, it's winter so if he finds himself unable to secure proper shelter (Which given the amount of heat after him is possible) he'll probably die of exposure if he's still in Northern Europe.

[Mr Bean]

He doesn't seem to be all that smart. He could've at least held out for lots of money and then retired to a personal island somewhere...instead of dumps a truckload of mostly minor memos and pisses off a dozen or more countries in the process and not much else. And this is after he became wanted for possibly legit rape charges. Also, it's winter so if he finds himself unable to secure proper shelter (Which given the amount of heat after him is possible) he'll probably die of exposure if he's still in Northern Europe.

What... the fuck...
Who the hell do you thing Assange is? What the hell do you think Wikileaks does? Why do you think he's in charge of it?

This is a man who has for the past eight years now had no permanent address, he survives entirely on donations and lives for two or three days with supporters of his in over two dozen countries. You think he's going on TV shows from remote locations because he wants to be a blackmailer? Because what possible chance do you honestly think that the US Goverment would bow to the demands of a blackmailer and pay money and not simply have them "neutralized" money or no.

What bizzaro world do you live in Commander where that was even a possibility let alone a smart idea?

[Simon_Jester]

This is a sensitive issue in Sweden, a lot of womens rights groups are campaigning for laws that would make it possible for a woman to agree to intecourse and then decide that she was raped afterwards, essentially meaning that a man would need to sign a sex contract with a woman in advance to be completely sure that he can not be charged with rape.
(One man was actually freed of charges recently precisely because he could produce such a contract.)

That strikes me as problematic from a constitutional-law standpoint, even given that the Swedish constitution isn't the one that contributes to my sense of how things ought to be. In essence it's defining a an ex post facto crime. Well, not ex post facto but something close, because you can be charged and convicted without intent to commit it or even without knowing that you've committed it- not because you didn't know the law,* but because you didn't know that someone was going to change their mind after the fact.

Do you have a citation for this kind of thing?

*It's a commonplace that ignorance of the law is no excuse, and I'm not going to dispute that, but assuming you know the law you should damn well be able to avoid committing crimes by acting in good faith. You should never become guilty of a crime purely because someone else decides that what you have done is a crime, without other verifiable factors in play.

[Commander 598]

He doesn't seem to be all that smart. He could've at least held out for lots of money and then retired to a personal island somewhere...instead of dumps a truckload of mostly minor memos and pisses off a dozen or more countries in the process and not much else. And this is after he became wanted for possibly legit rape charges. Also, it's winter so if he finds himself unable to secure proper shelter (Which given the amount of heat after him is possible) he'll probably die of exposure if he's still in Northern Europe.

What... the fuck...
Who the hell do you thing Assange is? What the hell do you think Wikileaks does? Why do you think he's in charge of it?

This is a man who has for the past eight years now had no permanent address, he survives entirely on donations and lives for two or three days with supporters of his in over two dozen countries. You think he's going on TV shows from remote locations because he wants to be a blackmailer? Because what possible chance do you honestly think that the US Goverment would bow to the demands of a blackmailer and pay money and not simply have them "neutralized" money or no.

What bizzaro world do you live in Commander where that was even a possibility let alone a smart idea?

The last eight years are totally irrelevant to the matter since becoming one of the most wanted men in the world is a bit more recent, nobody gave a fuck before that Apache guncam footage and Afghan documents. Furthermore, the US govt dumps shit tons of money on even more worthless endeavors so, by their standards, a small sum of money for a metric fuckton of incriminating documents is by no means an unbelievable trade. It's certainly a smarter idea than having half the world after you just so you can feed your ego.

"Neutralized?" Obviously hiding bodies in a foreign country is easier than trading some chump change for a grab bag of documents that you don't want to exist.
Spoiler

You would also send one of the LOYAL supporters you're hurfing about to do it instead of yourself.

Also I live in the bizzaro world where egotistical hackers with rape charges don't become martyrs by getting caught after pissing off too many people by leaking a bunch of largely worthless information.

[Thanas]

If I hear anymore of this asinine "ASSANGE SHOULD HAVE MADE A DEAL FOR MONEY" stuff, I am going to moderate said person very hard. No more of this.

Such comments reveal a very high lack of knowledge about Wikileaks. It only works because people are willing to trust the staff (and Assange) that they will not do anything with the documents except to release them.

So please, let us not have anymore of this pointless thread tangent.

[Phantasee]

I object to your comment, aerius. The general feeling is nowhere as extreme as Flanagan's opinion, and my friends at U of C tell me he's pretty extreme compared to the average anyway. Not to mention that Calgary has been a hotbed of right wing troublemakers lately.

[Artemas]

Well, Flanagan's american, so...

[Phantasee]

I did not know that. That explains why my friends have such a distaste for him; they are pretty conservative themselves, but most of wouldn't consider themselves such in the US.

It was interesting to learn he was a major supporter of Harper, though.

[Korgeta]

I do question Assange's wisdom on ducking out on the the rape charges, to the point that interpol are handing him a red notice is not doing him any favours. Of course there is the danger that the americans might try to get him extradited somehow but I can't see any nation handing him over to the USA because of the possibility of a death penalty. I don't want to believe that Assange had committed rape, sexual molestation and unlawful coercion but the best way for him is to contact authorities on his whereabouts and face upto possible trial. This isn't like with roman polanski when the USA managed to get him briefly detained in Switzerland. Roman effectively fled US courts and is on the run since. Regarding with Assange it's a bit different given he hasn't been tried in US or broken any US law on US soil. So I can't see myself as some have been making out that the US will try to snatch him whilst on his way from one country to the next. However the US may assist in trying to find and pass on his wareabouts as well as build up a case for him to be extradited.

[Thanas]

The US has snatched up German citizens at border crossings before, so they are certainly not above it. However, I doubt they will do such a thing here, simply because of the massive amount of negative PR. No, if they try to do anything, they will try and get him convicted of a crime or have him disappear. However, I doubt they will do it.

[Korgeta]

The negative PR is one thing, the last thing the US wants is to do that and get even more attempted hackings, which would be just one of the responses they'll get. Also with the case of Khalid El-Masri (the german citizen abducted which i think you were referring to) even that was done under the pretext that the CIA suspected he was a terrorist and used terror laws to justify it. Assange (barring poltical comments aimed at him) isn't reconised as a terroist or anything that would warrent the CIA swooping in. But your right, that dosen't mean the USA will look at any other possible option to try and get him.

[Xon]

Linky1
Linky2

That further evidence hasn’t been confected to make the charges less absurd does Sweden no credit because it has no choice in the matter. The phenomena of social networking through the internet and mobile phones constrains Swedish authorities from augmenting the evidence against Assange because it would look even less credible in the face of tweets by Anna Ardin and SMS texts by Sofia Wilén boasting of their respective conquests after the “crimes”.

In the case of Ardin it is clear that she has thrown a party in Assange’s honour at her flat after the “crime” and tweeted to her followers that she is with the “the world’s coolest smartest people, it’s amazing!”. Go on the internet and see for yourself. That Ardin has sought unsuccessfully to delete these exculpatory tweets from the public record should be a matter of grave concern. That she has published on the internet a guide on how to get revenge on cheating boyfriends ever graver. The exact content of Wilén’s mobile phone texts is not yet known but their bragging and exculpatory character has been confirmed by Swedish prosecutors. Niether Wilén’s nor Ardin’s texts complain of rape.

Yes, nothing fishy about this case at all.

[Uraniun235]

I heard somewhere that it's technically illegal for Swedish authorities to publicly identify suspects in an ongoing criminal investigation, can any of our Swedish (or Swedephile?) posters confirm or deny?

[Xon]

Apparently it's one of the reasons the first investigator in the case got kicked out.

[weemadando]

In the meantime we can all point at laugh at the Gillard gov'ts posturing and preening to make themselves look tough on this by ordering the AFP to investigate if a crime has been committed under Australian law which would let them strip Assange of his Australian passport.

From Greg Barn's recent column we find this fantastic excerpt from an ABC radio interview:

MADONNA KING: Well what could be a criminal law that possibly could have been breached? I’m just thinking what is the crime here?

[Attorney General] ROBERT McClelland: The crimes potentially relate to the publication of national security sensitive material, in circumstances where that is intentionally done knowing the sensitivity of it. There are other specific offenses relating to the publishing of details concerning certain places and so forth. So they’re the sort of issues that the police are looking at.

MADONNA KING: But don’t you have a big jurisdictional problem there? The leaks are coming from the United States but that’s a crime under Australian law. How do you actually do that?

ROBERT McClelland: No, you’re absolutely right. That’s why I said the prime agencies are United States agencies looking at the - that issue. It’s United States documentation so we will be focusing on what we can do to assist those. But at the same time I’ve asked the Australian Federal Police to specifically look at whether any Australian criminal laws have been breached.

If you have to look that hard, there's probably no law that he's broken.

[loomer]

The conspiracy groups are going nuts over Assange, but there's been a particularly interesting one that actually seems to have some validity. When he was a kid, Assange's mother married a man involved with the Santiniketan Park Association. All the children of the cult had their hair dyed platinum blonde. Weird little element there, even if it's probably nothing.

My personal view is that we should actually be offering Assange support and shelter. He's an Australian national and simply handing him over to the Americans would be an utter disgrace.

[Broomstick]

He's wanted in Sweden on rape charges for a crime allegedly committed in Sweden... this give the US the right to extradite him... HOW? It doesn't. The US has no grounds to extradite him based on those charges.

Now, if the crime had allegedly occured in the US that would be a different matter... and if the US was orchestrating something like that, wouldn't they have come up with a reason to make asking the Swedes to hand him over at least plausible? That doesn't make sense.

Mind you - I have no doubt that if the US government finds a means to grab him they will. I just don't see them framing him for rape in Sweden to do it.

Maybe, just maybe, the rape accusation is totally unrelated to him pissing off the US government.

I do question Assange's wisdom on ducking out on the the rape charges, to the point that interpol are handing him a red notice is not doing him any favours. Of course there is the danger that the americans might try to get him extradited somehow but I can't see any nation handing him over to the USA because of the possibility of a death penalty.

Uh... no US state imposes the death penalty for simple rape - that is, rape involving adult women that doesn't involve kidnapping or other aggravating circumstances. The circumstances involved - from what I've read - were likely not enough to convict in US courts.

Seriously, if this was being orchestrated by someone in the US I'd expect something much more heinous as an accusation.

This isn't like with roman polanski when the USA managed to get him briefly detained in Switzerland. Roman effectively fled US courts and is on the run since.

Polanski was convicted in the state of California, he wasn't fleeing a trial, he was fleeing a prison sentence. Just wanted to make sure folks were clear on the details.

Regarding with Assange it's a bit different given he hasn't been tried in US or broken any US law on US soil. So I can't see myself as some have been making out that the US will try to snatch him whilst on his way from one country to the next. However the US may assist in trying to find and pass on his wareabouts as well as build up a case for him to be extradited.

The US has motivation to snatch him, but it has nothing to do with rape charges. The US government couldn't give a shit about rape charges - if they get him they'll charge him with terrorism or espionage or some such, not rape.

[General Zod]

Look who's calling for Assange to be hunted down. Anyone shocked?

Potential GOP presidential contender Sarah Palin wins the prize for most feverish reaction to the WikiLeaks release with this new Facebook post:

[T]he latest round of publications of leaked classified U.S. documents through the shady organization called Wikileaks raises serious questions about the Obama administration’s incompetent handling of this whole fiasco.

First and foremost, what steps were taken to stop Wikileaks director Julian Assange from distributing this highly sensitive classified material especially after he had already published material not once but twice in the previous months? Assange is not a "journalist," any more than the "editor" of al Qaeda’s new English-language magazine Inspire is a "journalist." He is an anti-American operative with blood on his hands. His past posting of classified documents revealed the identity of more than 100 Afghan sources to the Taliban. Why was he not pursued with the same urgency we pursue al Qaeda and Taliban leaders?

It's first worth noting that there is no evidence that Assange has "blood on his hands." In a review of a previous round of leaks on Afghanistan, the Pentagon found no evidence that anyone had been endangered.

But more important: Palin is advocating that Assange be pursued like an al-Qaida operative. In the current context, it's not unreasonable to interpret that to mean he should be assassinated.

This is rather like Palin's recent stance against the 16th Amendment and the federal income tax: If she's going to be a serious political figure, she should be required to publicly explain and defend her positions. A serious media interview would be the perfect forum, one we're not likely to get any time soon.

Really, it's not far from calling for his head on a pike.

Oh, and taken from Palin's facebook page, from the same post:

Most importantly, serious questions must also be asked of the U.S. intelligence system. How was it possible that a 22-year-old Private First Class could get unrestricted access to so much highly sensitive information? And how was it possible that he could copy and distribute these files without anyone noticing that security was compromised?

I mean seriously? It's not hard to see it if you have the slightest inkling of how the military works.

[Korgeta]

I do question Assange's wisdom on ducking out on the the rape charges, to the point that interpol are handing him a red notice is not doing him any favours. Of course there is the danger that the americans might try to get him extradited somehow but I can't see any nation handing him over to the USA because of the possibility of a death penalty.

Uh... no US state imposes the death penalty for simple rape - that is, rape involving adult women that doesn't involve kidnapping or other aggravating circumstances. The circumstances involved - from what I've read - were likely not enough to convict in US courts.

I was not on about the rape charge but that he would likely be charged under the US Espionage Act if extradited to america as that does carry the maximum death penalty as i understand, because of that it would be unlikely that any nation would extradite Assange if he was found and charged with rape.

[His Divine Shadow]

I heard somewhere that it's technically illegal for Swedish authorities to publicly identify suspects in an ongoing criminal investigation, can any of our Swedish (or Swedephile?) posters confirm or deny?

I wouldn't know about that for sure, but I'd say it doesn't matter one bit. The press doesn't have any such issues. I remember that they plastered a guys name and face all over the papers when Anna Lindh was murdered and said this was the guy, he's the killer. Then it turned out to be somebody else, whoops, lets just forget all that earlier and pretend it never existed...

Now they are doing it again with the "malmö-shooter", nobody knows if it's the guy and the police haven't said anything about the case, and the ballistic fingerprinting (unreliable at the best of times) is taking way too long, one shitheap of a paper even reported (falsely) that the test where done & positive a few days after the guy was arrested. At this point in time I wouldn't be suprised to see a repeat situation.

Got a bit OT there....

[Dooey Jo]

But HDS, they need to sell copies the people need to know whose family they should send death threats to.


I do not believe it is strictly illegal for the police to publicly identify suspects, but they will only do so under very special circumstances, like if the suspects pose a threat to others or if they need help finding them.

[PeZook]

I...am wondering why people think there's a need for the US to kidnap the guy if he's ever incarcerated in Sweden.

He's being charged with rape. Just convict him with a media circus before the actual conviction/acquital, and he'll be nicely discredited.

[weemadando]

I...am wondering why people think there's a need for the US to kidnap the guy if he's ever incarcerated in Sweden.

He's being charged with rape. Just convict him with a media circus before the actual conviction/acquital, and he'll be nicely discredited.

Except for the part with the prosecutorial misconduct thus far and repeated laying and raising of the charges. The media circus is more than likely to play in his favour.

[Solauren]

I hate to say this, but Palin actually has a point with the entire 'how did this get copied without security...' comment.

I work for the Canadian Revenue Agency now. We're just dealing with financal stuff, but the security level is incredible.

I plug an unauthorized thumb drive into my computer, my computer locks me out and calls IT + security. If I'm not connected to the network, it still locks out and IT has to release it. I also need my manager's approval for my DVD drive to be turned on.

I access ANY file anywhere on the networks, it is logged, even if I just looked at it long enough to go 'opps, wrong file'. IT + Security do periodic audits of those files. If it's not in my approved file list, I may get a visit (Depends on the nature of the file)

If I copy a file I'm authorized to view, It gets logged, and I get a visit. Even if I copy a file I'm allowed to copy, it gets logged. (I just don't visited unless it gets leaked).

I send an email, it's logged. Attachments are not allowed (we can't attached them) unless it's encrypted, IT was notified, and the manager signs off on the file. 99% of the time, we have to send the file to the manager FIRST, who has to open it, view it, approve it, and then send it himself.

Hell, I hit the spellchecker in MS-Word, it's logged.

So, why is it a agency of maybe 50,000 people that deals with Tax records, has higher apparent security then the largest, most advanced military in the world?