Julian Assange arrested in London

[Broomstick]

Not being a lawyer, I'm not sure what the legal terms are. I'm fairly certain, however, that it is illegal to posses and/or release secret and confidential government documents. That's irrelevant to the point, however, which is that if the US really wants to get Assange, they could conceivably concoct a charge that fits the crime.

The buzz over here in the US is that the precedent of the Pentagon Papers - which were unequivocally stolen, top secret documents - being published by The New York Times and The Washington Post in the 1970's establishes a precedent for legally publishing such documents (Court case of The New York Times Company vs. The United States) The man who actually stole the papers and gave them to the New York Times was arrested and went to court, but it ended in a mistrial. The Supreme Court ruled against the government's attempt to prevent publication 6-3, but also made it clear that the ability to publish such information is not unlimited.

In an interesting insane twist - the Pentagon Papers are STILL classified as top secret... even though they've been published more than once by non-government sources.

Anyhow - since Assange didn't steal these documents himself, and WikiLeaks is arguably a journalism outlet, the legal precedent may well provide him some shielding from US law. If they want to drag him into court they'll have to do it on a charge other than theft, and probably other than publishing government documents. I have no doubt government lawyers are spending long hours trying to come up with a basis on which to charge him, but yes, the US holds the First Amendment guaranteeing freedom of the press so highly they have, in the past, allowed top secret papers about a current war to be published without penalty in the press. Personally, I wouldn't want to be my freedom on it as the US has changed over the past 40 years, but there you go.

[Coyote]

The thing is, while I admit I dislike Assange, I have to also admit that the rape charge stuff is suspiciously timed. Remember, some of the rape charges were brought up a few months ago in Sweden but they were dismissed at the time (for reasons I don't know). Now, suddenly, the case is opened again.

And besides, Assange is infamous not for raping women, but for publishing classified documents. People want to see him tossed in the clink for the documents; they're just going to use the handy-dandy (and mysteriously convenient and recurring) rape stuff to do it. Like the way the Republicans went after Bill Clinton-- they didn't have anything legitimate to go after, so they went for some tart with a blow job and a cigar.

And furthermore-- to even focus on Assange entirely is a mistake, since (for Americans) he's not actually the problem. The problem is the guy(s) who gave him classified material in a breach of trust.

[Stark]

I would have thought the problem is the administration that committed the crimes exposed by the documents.

[Xisiqomelir]

I would have thought the problem is the administration that committed the crimes exposed by the documents.

Don't worry about governments abusing their power both to commit atrocities and then again to cover them up. It's at least 30x more important to nail drongos for committing Swedish rape, which is exactly like real rape except it's mostly consensual.

[Coyote]

I would have thought the problem is the administration that committed the crimes exposed by the documents.

I was talking about the calls to prosecute Assange for treason, when no such treason can exist because not only is he not an American, but he didn't do the actual espionage, he just gave the espionage results a place to go.

As to whether the government that committed the crimes deserves prosecution, that is another subject. If it is just something you need to hear/read, yes, I was dismayed that Obama said that investigations and summonses and prosecutions were "off the table" when he came into office; they should have gone after Bush & Cheney like a pack of hungry pit bulls. You probably will find very little dissent to that here.

[Vympel]

http://www.salon.com/news/opinion/glenn ... index.html

Commentary on the latest developments, including the painfully idiotic comments from the typically craven and servile American press.

[Molyneux]

The man turned himself in, the timing of the whole thing is damned fishy, and the evidence surrounding it is boils down to "he said, she said". I'll wait and see what happens in the trial, but my first thought is that the whole damn thing is a big bag of nothing.

[Skgoa]

I'm interested in learning more about the whole situation, so if anyone has anything to correct me, I'm more than happy to listen to it. I'm hearing most of my information through the Something Awful thread, and they're largely completely flying off the handle about this and making rational discussion difficult.

There is much speculation going on, but what we know for sure is:

In August Assange was visiting Sweden. He stayed with a woman... who bragged about that on twitter and on her blog at a point in time AFTER the alleged rape. On the same blog where she had earlier posted a seven point plan to get back at guys for cheating. And yes, accusations of rape are part of that plan. While going about his busines promoting WikiLeaks, Assange met another woman. He had sex with her. A couple of days later they found out about each other and decided to go to the police. The first woman then deleted her tweets, but forgot to delete her blog posts. When people noticed, those posts vanished, too. Assange immediatly turned himself in to the police. The charges were dropped and/or the women redacted their allegations, iirc that was in September. Assange was told he was free to leave Sweden whenever he wished to. Then another prosecutor reopened the case. This is actually a normal thing in the swedish legal system. This prosecutor's very job is to review cases of (alleged) domestic violence or rape and (if neccessary) overturn the original prosecutor's decision. Assange was then once again sought for questioning. He didn't turn up, but he offered to meet at the swedish embassy in London or communicate via video chat. The prosecutor insisted on speaking to him in person and put out an international arrest warrant. (Actually I don't know wether or not she personally decided on that, but she is the leader of the investigation.) It contained a formal error, when an updated version was sent to the british police, Assange made an appointment to turn himself in in London. And then he did exactly that. He was denied bail and someone - I guess it would have to be the swedish authorities - wanted him in solitary confinement without free communication to the outside. Sweden (i.e. the prosecutor) is seeking his extradition.

Oh and the justice departments of both the US and Australia are trying to find things to charge him with, but apparently they don't have any.

[wautd]

I would have thought the problem is the administration that committed the crimes exposed by the documents.

I was talking about the calls to prosecute Assange for treason, when no such treason can exist because not only is he not an American, but he didn't do the actual espionage, he just gave the espionage results a place to go.

Wikileaks didn't do anything illigal, let alone espionage or treason. Hell, even the Pentagon admitted that no person was put into harm or danger with the documents so far, so America's reaction is so hysterical they're starting to look like China when someone brings up peace activists, Tibet or Tiananmen Square. They really don't have a leg to stand on, bat that doesn't stop them from ruining his life or 2 presindential candidates saying he should be shot.

Appearantly they're also aiming their arrows on the New York Times for merely doing their job (factual journalism). I guess free speech has become un-american and that "journalism" a la Fox News (a news station that won a trial saying it's OK to lie on the news) should be become the norm.

[ShadowDragon8685]

I'm interested in learning more about the whole situation, so if anyone has anything to correct me, I'm more than happy to listen to it. I'm hearing most of my information through the Something Awful thread, and they're largely completely flying off the handle about this and making rational discussion difficult.

There is much speculation going on, but what we know for sure is:

In August Assange was visiting Sweden. He stayed with a woman... who bragged about that on twitter and on her blog at a point in time AFTER the alleged rape. On the same blog where she had earlier posted a seven point plan to get back at guys for cheating. And yes, accusations of rape are part of that plan. While going about his busines promoting WikiLeaks, Assange met another woman. He had sex with her. A couple of days later they found out about each other and decided to go to the police. The first woman then deleted her tweets, but forgot to delete her blog posts. When people noticed, those posts vanished, too. Assange immediatly turned himself in to the police. The charges were dropped and/or the women redacted their allegations, iirc that was in September.

Holy moly, great cannoli...

If I were a prosecutor and I'd seen that timeline with any shred of evidence to back it up, I'd pretty much have to despair that the case is essentially unwinnable; guilty as Satan or innocent as a Saint, the defense is going to tear the whole allegation to shreds as the accuser doing exactly what she had blogged she would do if she learned that she had been cheated upon.

Is there like, an archived version of those blog post in English?

Oh and the justice departments of both the US and Australia are trying to find things to charge him with, but apparently they don't have any.

Because he hasn't done anything illegal and they know it. They just hate him for doing very aggravating but legal things.

[Shroom Man 777]

Why the hell would they want to put him in solitary confinement with no outside communication? In America, he would have the right to a phone call.

[Master_Baerne]

At a guess, because the US pressured Sweden into asking for solitary confinement on the thought that withholding communication rights from a man with a bunch of the US's dirty secrets would be a good idea.

[Broomstick]

Why the hell would they want to put him in solitary confinement with no outside communication? In America, he would have the right to a phone call.

Um... because he threatened to unleash a "poison pill" if arrested by transmitting a code over the internet, so the Authorities think that by denying him communications it prevents the information from being released?

[Thanas]

For what it is worth, German news media, including state news media, are all reporting that the USA is trying to get Assange moved to sweden as they are far more willing to extradite guys to the USA than the Brits are.

[Teebs]

Why the hell would they want to put him in solitary confinement with no outside communication? In America, he would have the right to a phone call.

He has the right to a phone call in the UK too which can only be delayed under very limited circumstances (essentially preventing destruction of evidence, concealment of stolen property or preventing a further crime).

[His Divine Shadow]

I'd like to know, has Assange, or rather Wikileaks put anyone into jeopardy with any of their leaking of classified info? Just wondering since some dude was going on about how Assange deserved to be shanked and raped in that order in prison for endagering the lives of soliders or something like that. I'm pretty sure he's full of B.S. since I know him from before and he's got these moronic views a lot of the time (fuck aboriginals, fuck islam, those kinds of views).

[Skgoa]

Compromized security of soecial forces operations, names and addresses of informants... there could be an almost infinite number of things that (will) influence(d) events towards a more negative outcome than would otherwise have happened. For what its worth, I vaguely remember someone claiming that the US government had not learned of any deaths resulting from the afgan war logs. Unfortunately I don't remember were I read that.

Holy moly, great cannoli...

If I were a prosecutor and I'd seen that timeline with any shred of evidence to back it up, I'd pretty much have to despair that the case is essentially unwinnable; guilty as Satan or innocent as a Saint, the defense is going to tear the whole allegation to shreds as the accuser doing exactly what she had blogged she would do if she learned that she had been cheated upon.

Is there like, an archived version of those blog post in English?

http://radsoft.net/news/20101001,01.shtml <- this is the only english version I know of.

[cosmicalstorm]

I actually believe he is "guilty" in the sense that he did sleep with both those women. His mistake was to bed two feminazis. Before this affair he was a huge hero to this segment of the population, and he continues to be. I think he's a shy boy who was never really good with women and suddenly found himself a god. Those women have written revenge plans for ex boyfriends and so on. What probably happened was the he came inside one of them without asking, continued fucking with a broken condom. He will probably be freed of charges if this goes to trial.

For what it is worth, German news media, including state news media, are all reporting that the USA is trying to get Assange moved to sweden as they are far more willing to extradite guys to the USA than the Brits are.

I have to tell you Thanas, as a Swedish citizen I very much doubt he would ever be sent to the US by Sweden. Possibly if he was wanted for murder (as in literally shooting another person with a gun in the head) on the CONUS. There would be a untold public outrage if they agreed to extradite him due to the leak-thing.

[Zed]

I actually believe he is "guilty" in the sense that he did sleep with both those women. His mistake was to bed two feminazis, those women have written revenge plans for ex boyfriends and so on. What probably happened was the he came inside one of them without asking, continued fucking with a broken condom.

I'm very interested in seeing where you found your evidence about him bedding 'feminazi's' that have written revenge plans for ex-boyfriends. Firstly, using the term 'feminazi' makes you suspect - it is a term used in order to discredit feminism, often by caricature of their actual position. Secondly, the claim that women lie about being raped is often invoked by rape apologists claiming that 'she wanted it'. It's best to stay clear of such claims unless there is proper evidence that the women are not entirely truthful. I am not going to comment on this situation itself, as I have a sense that the information spread on the internet about it mostly consists of rumors. Thirdly and finally, coming inside a woman without asking and continuing to have sex with a woman upon realizing the condom has broken (without the woman's consent) are problematic and quite likely a criminal offence - as they should be. These offences aren't as significant as violent rape (which is one of the less common forms of rape anyhow), but they are significant.

[wautd]

I'd like to know, has Assange, or rather Wikileaks put anyone into jeopardy with any of their leaking of classified info? Just wondering since some dude was going on about how Assange deserved to be shanked and raped in that order in prison for endagering the lives of soliders or something like that. I'm pretty sure he's full of B.S. since I know him from before and he's got these moronic views a lot of the time (fuck aboriginals, fuck islam, those kinds of views).

He's full of shit. Even the pentagon had to admit nobody was put in danger.

[gizmojumpjet]

Why the hell would they want to put him in solitary confinement with no outside communication? In America, he would have the right to a phone call.

I believe it's fairly common to place high-profile prisoners in solitary for their own safety.

[Keevan_Colton]

I suggest Zed that you read the article linked above and check out the linked information contained in it. It links to the google cache versions of the various twitters and blogs by the woman in question. Which incidentally have been deleted from the original blogs...fortunately as it mentions, google sees all and remembers like some kind of digital god .

[Zed]

It links to an interpretation of the facts, most certainly. Unfortunately, I don't have all of the information and I cannot make Swedish. Whether or not any offense occurred is up to the Swedish justice system. Regardless of possible false accusations, terms such as 'feminazi's that are commonly used to denigrate the entirety of feminism aren't helpful at all.

[Teebs]

For what it is worth, German news media, including state news media, are all reporting that the USA is trying to get Assange moved to sweden as they are far more willing to extradite guys to the USA than the Brits are.

That would seem a little odd, IIRC we have a very liberal (and lopsided) extradition treaty with the US.

[CaptainChewbacca]

I'm still confused about how the doccuments got OUT. The guy claims he hid them on a CD, but aren't intel computers like that usually disabled from transcribing files? The few times I've worked in a secure government facility the computer I was assigned had its' USB and CD-RW drivers pulled.