[WikiLeaks]: DynCorp mercenaries and child prostitution

[Big Phil]

That this happens doesn't surprise me, but how widespread it is does. Some questions:

1. According to the article, possession of young boys is a point of pride among Pashtun men. How do they reconcile gay sex with Islam, which forbids homosexuality?

2. Where do the boys come from? Are they willing participants? Kidnap victims? Sold by their parents?

3. Do men participate because of peer pressure, or are large numbers of Pashtun men pedophiles?

[Norseman]

So any chance that DynCorp will get any punishment for this? You know, to send a message to both the local population and your own contractors that this behavior isn't tolerated?

Or when they said "winning the heart and minds", was that only aimed at peadofiles?

Consequences? You're kidding right?

Also it's very common for men to screw pubescent boys, age 13-19, if women are kept in purdah. That's why the custom of boy loving was common in Ancient Greece, in the Ottoman Empire, heck you can find it anywhere from Pakistan to Morocco.

[Broomstick]

What prior reporting? Not everyone reads PBS or anything else and I sure as heck do not remember reading anything like "US contractors and their sex slaves" previously.

Frontline is broadcast nationally on TV, it got some play in the commercial US media as at least a rumor, it also played in the UK...

Well, alright, maybe no one in Germany knew, it's entirely possible, I'm just surprised as this has certainly been floating around the US media for more than half a year now.

[Broomstick]

That this happens doesn't surprise me, but how widespread it is does. Some questions:

1. According to the article, possession of young boys is a point of pride among Pashtun men. How do they reconcile gay sex with Islam, which forbids homosexuality?

How do they reconcile drinking alcohol with Islam? How do Catholic priest reconcile having sex with anyone? They're doing Something Bad by they own ethical code.

2. Where do the boys come from? Are they willing participants? Kidnap victims? Sold by their parents?

From what I've been able to find out MOST of the boys are sold by their parents, usually desparately poor parents essentially selling one child to feed the rest. Perhaps they salve their conscience with the thought these boys will not go hungry or be forced into heavy labor.

There may be kidnap victims. There may even be willing participants. Those two categories would be the minority, however.

3. Do men participate because of peer pressure, or are large numbers of Pashtun men pedophiles?

When men do not have access to women for fucking purposes they often (though not always) resort to "opportunistic" homosexuality, usually with a preference for feminized objects of lust (hence, dressing the boys as girls, and focusing on boys). It's not so much they're pedophiles (though some might well be) or homosexual as they are horny as hell and there aren't any women around and boys are all they have (unless they want to start fucking actual men). This becomes on a certain level an "acceptable" (though officially forbidden) way around the problem of a lack of available women. It happens in jails, on male-only ships throughout naval history, and other situations that are men-only. Again, not always but it's common enough it shouldn't be too surprising, even when the details are appalling. Given the extreme isolation of Afghan women from ... well... everything you essentially have an entire nation where public and even a lot of private life is male-only. Thus, male-on-male sex.

Of course, if everyone was willing and free of coercion this wouldn't be an issue, but 11 year old boys aren't old enough to consent, even if they have a clue what's about to be asked of them. And it's pretty clear none of the boys are allowed to say "no".

[Thanas]

Also it's very common for men to screw pubescent boys, age 13-19, if women are kept in purdah. That's why the custom of boy loving was common in Ancient Greece, in the Ottoman Empire, heck you can find it anywhere from Pakistan to Morocco.

I'll try and throw ancient Greece out of there, because the society where women had the most rights was Sparta, which was notorious for pederasty.

[Big Phil]

Of course, if everyone was willing and free of coercion this wouldn't be an issue, but 11 year old boys aren't old enough to consent, even if they have a clue what's about to be asked of them. And it's pretty clear none of the boys are allowed to say "no".

I guess that's what bothers me; that large numbers of Afghan men are, effectively, rapists (even if their culture says otherwise).

[Simon_Jester]

Also it's very common for men to screw pubescent boys, age 13-19, if women are kept in purdah. That's why the custom of boy loving was common in Ancient Greece, in the Ottoman Empire, heck you can find it anywhere from Pakistan to Morocco.

I'll try and throw ancient Greece out of there, because the society where women had the most rights was Sparta, which was notorious for pederasty.

How great was this notoriety relative to that of the other Greek city-states? Did the Spartans have an unusually strong reputation for pederasty compared to other cities such as Athens? How reliable are our sources on the subject- was it objective visitors providing this viewpoint, something we reconstructed from widespread evidence, or just Athenians pointing and snickering at Spartans by exaggerating their reputation as boy-lovers?

Also, my impression of Spartan society (and I may be wrong about this) is that the Spartans created the conditions for widespread male homosexuality in a somewhat different way than, say, Afghans. Instead of locking the women up, they (effectively) locked the men up, or at least locked them away from the women, for long periods of time.

Remember that Broomstick also cites 'men only' environments such as warships and prisons as environments where male-on-male sex becomes much more common. I don't doubt that a Spartan barracks would fit the bill too.

[Thanas]

Also it's very common for men to screw pubescent boys, age 13-19, if women are kept in purdah. That's why the custom of boy loving was common in Ancient Greece, in the Ottoman Empire, heck you can find it anywhere from Pakistan to Morocco.

I'll try and throw ancient Greece out of there, because the society where women had the most rights was Sparta, which was notorious for pederasty.

How great was this notoriety relative to that of the other Greek city-states? Did the Spartans have an unusually strong reputation for pederasty compared to other cities such as Athens? How reliable are our sources on the subject- was it objective visitors providing this viewpoint, something we reconstructed from widespread evidence, or just Athenians pointing and snickering at Spartans by exaggerating their reputation as boy-lovers?

Depends on how you interpret the sources like Herodot, which is a whole can of worms. And I am not going to discuss this here unless I get paid my usual rate, because that would be too much work.

Also, my impression of Spartan society (and I may be wrong about this) is that the Spartans created the conditions for widespread male homosexuality in a somewhat different way than, say, Afghans. Instead of locking the women up, they (effectively) locked the men up, or at least locked them away from the women, for long periods of time.

Yes, so? Pedastery has a millenia-old tradition in Afghanistan. It is recorded even in ancient times. Locking away women was not that much part of a deal, given we also have this practice from some steppe people, who also did not lock away their women that much.

Remember that Broomstick also cites 'men only' environments such as warships and prisons as environments where male-on-male sex becomes much more common. I don't doubt that a Spartan barracks would fit the bill too.

She did, Norsemen did not.

[Norseman]

Also it's very common for men to screw pubescent boys, age 13-19, if women are kept in purdah. That's why the custom of boy loving was common in Ancient Greece, in the Ottoman Empire, heck you can find it anywhere from Pakistan to Morocco.

I'll try and throw ancient Greece out of there, because the society where women had the most rights was Sparta, which was notorious for pederasty.

Alright I should have said ancient Athens instead, which was by all accounts I've heard quite misogynistic. That said, yes, there are other ways than purdah to isolate men from women over long periods of time, but that approach seems to create unusually oppressive forms of pederasty. It also seems to give men a really twisted view of women.

[wautd]

So any chance that DynCorp will get any punishment for this? You know, to send a message to both the local population and your own contractors that this behavior isn't tolerated?

Or when they said "winning the heart and minds", was that only aimed at peadofiles?

Consequences? You're kidding right?

Well duh.