House Democratic Caucus to Obama: Fuck you, buddy.

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House Democratic Caucus to Obama: Fuck you, buddy.

Post by Straha »

The Democratic Caucus has finally grown a pair of balls, and told Obama to go shove his deal where the sun don't shine.
The Hill wrote:The House Democratic Caucus on Thursday rejected the tax deal negotiated between the White House and Senate Republicans.

The non-binding vote of the caucus held during a closed-door meeting puts tremendous pressure on House leaders to win changes to a proposal the White House has presented as a "take it or leave it" package.

House Speaker Nancy Pelosi (D-Calif.) issued a brief statement after the vote indicating that lower-chamber Democrats will fight to alter the bill.

"We will continue discussions with the President and our Democratic and Republican colleagues in the days ahead to improve the proposal before it comes to the House floor for a vote," Pelosi said.

“Democratic priorities remain clear: to provide a tax cut for working families, to create jobs and economic growth, to assist millions of our fellow Americans who have lost their jobs through no fault of their own, and to do this in a fiscally sound way.”

White House press secretary Robert Gibbs said the president is confident Congress will approve the tax package despite its rejection by House Democrats. “At the end of the day” the bill will pass both houses, Gibbs said at his daily press briefing.

Gibbs challenged Democrats to come up with a better compromise than the one Obama reached with Republicans in an effort to break a “legislative stalemate” that could have disastrous consequences for the economy.

“If everybody took out what they didn't like, we would have nothing,” Gibbs said. “And we know the consequences of doing nothing.”

Democrats have appointed Rep. Chris Van Hollen (D-Md.), the assistant to the Speaker, to represent the caucus in future negotiations on the bill. Van Hollen was a part of the so-called Gang of Six, a short-lived group created last week to crunch a compromise with the White House and congressional leaders from both chambers.

The White House, however, abandoned those talks and focused instead on meetings with Senate Republicans. It is now insisting that the deal worked out with Senate Republicans cannot be changed.


That position appears to have provoked outrage among House Democrats who are livid that the package would extend all of the tax cuts signed into law by President George W. Bush in 2001 and 2003, including those for the highest income earners.

Sponsored by Rep. Peter DeFazio (D-Ore.), the resolution says simply that Democrats oppose floor action of the tax deal in its current form.

"We have tremendous concerns about what was given away by the White House," DeFazio told reporters in the Capitol basement after the vote.

DeFazio said the voice vote was "virtually unanimous," with only one or two members expressing dissent.

"We have given our leadership license to force the Senate and the White House back to the table to get a better deal for the American people," he said.

Asked if leadership had agreed to do that, DeFazio replied, "Well, they're not going to get a bill if they don't."

DeFazio said he spoke to the Speaker prior to the vote and that she "did not express any opposition to what we proposed." DeFazio said the next step is for leaders to "go back to the bargaining table — and this time, they don't have a side-bargain between Joe Biden and Mitch McConnell," the GOP leader in the Senate.

President Obama on Monday stirred a firestorm when he announced a deal to extend the Bush-era tax cuts for all income levels. House Democrats passed an alternative bill last Thursday extending those cuts only to individuals earning less than $200,000 and families earning less than $250,000 annually. Both sets of tax cuts are set to expire at the end of the year. The deal also includes a 13-month extension of unemployment benefits.

Democrats are as angry about how the deal was put together as they are about its substance — they see the White House as abandoning bipartisan talks with Republicans and Democrats to work out a deal just with Senate Republicans. Vice President Joe Biden visited Capitol Hill on Wednesday to deliver the message to House Democrats that the White House viewed the deal as a "take-it-or-leave-it" accord.

In the lead-up to the vote on the DeFazio resolution, supporters could be heard from the hallway chanting, "Just say no!"

"There came a point where clearly they decided to cut a deal with the Republicans," Van Hollen said Tuesday.

DeFazio had another take on that episode: "We had a representative in the room bargaining, while the deal was being cut somewhere else."

"[Biden] basically said, 'Take it or leave it,' " DeFazio said. "We left it. It's up to them."

The White House has been aggressively pushing the deal all week, arguing Democrats risk plunging the country into a double-dip recession by rejecting it. At a testy news conference this week, Obama defended his negotiating stance, saying Republicans were not going to budge on their insistence that all of the tax cuts be extended. The president compared the GOP to hostage takers and said he had to act in order to help middle-class taxpayers and the unemployed.

DeFazio had intended to bring up his resolution next Tuesday, but news reports indicating the Senate is leaning toward accepting the deal caused him to expedite the timeline, DeFazio said. Fifty-five Democrats had signed a petition to force a vote on the resolution.

Some Democratic leaders remain reluctant to attack the White House-GOP deal directly. In very cautious comments to reporters after the vote, Rep. Xavier Becerra (D-Calif.) punted on questions about where he stands on the current proposal.

"The president said he would fight for the middle class," he said. "I'm with him on that."

With the lame-duck session quickly coming to a close, Congress is running out of time to finalize a deal on the tax-cut extensions. Asked if the short window threatened the House Democrats' push to return to the bargaining table, DeFazio suggested the lower-chamber remain in Washington this weekend to hash out a deal.

"I don't think there's an imperative the House go anywhere," he said.

The chairman of the caucus, Rep. John Larson (D-Conn.), downplayed the notion of the move being a purposeful rebuke of the Obama administration, as other Democrats had characterized it.

“We have a great relationship with the White House. I want to underscore that,” he said. “We stand solidly behind the president.”

But he said House Democrats wanted to put “our own imprimatur” on the tax-cut proposal.

Not all Democrats were on board with the resolution. Some said they want a chance to vote on the White House deal.

"A clear majority of the U.S. House of Representatives supports this plan," Rep. Dan Boren (D-Okla.) said in a statement. "We are allowing the liberal wing of the Democratic Caucus to hold these critically needed tax cuts hostage."

Republicans, who will be running the House next year, have few options to force a vote. There is not enough time to launch a discharge petition, which would allow for a roll call if it collected 218 signatures.

Under House rules, there is a waiting period before a measure can be called up via discharge petition, House parliamentary experts explained. That waiting period prevents a discharge petition from being a viable strategic move.

Regardless, many House Republicans believe the Democrats will blink.

A senior GOP lawmaker said House Democrats were just "blowing off steam" in their caucus vote on Thursday.

If Democrats attempt to change the estate tax provisions, Republicans say they may reject such a revised proposal.

Asked if tinkering with the estate tax provisions would be a deal breaker, Incoming Education and Labor Committee Chairman John Kline (R-Minn.) responded that "it could be close to it."

Rep. Jeff Flake (R-Ariz.) has announced he would vote against the plan that includes an extension of unemployment benefits that are not paid for.

A spokesman for Minority Whip Eric Cantor said the Virginia lawmaker has not taken a whip count of Republicans because legislative language has not yet been introduced.

For the most part, House Republicans are supportive of the compromise, according to Rep. Gregg Harper (R-Miss.).

Rep. Mike Rogers (R-Mich.) said the new GOP majority may have to pass the deal early next year.

"If we're going to cut a deal, and they're going to re-cut a deal, at some point you have to say, 'Maybe we have to deal with this next year,'" Rogers said. The Michigan legislator stressed his preference to pass the package this month.
Apparently profanity was in tow as well.
Breitbart wrote: The frustration with President Barack Obama over his tax cut compromise was palpable and even profane at Thursday’s House Democratic Caucus meeting.

One unidentified lawmaker went so far as to mutter “f— the president” while Rep. Shelley Berkley was defending the package the president negotiated with Republicans. Berkley confirmed the incident, although she declined to name the specific lawmaker.

“It wasn’t loud,” the Nevada Democrat said. “It was just expressing frustration from a very frustrated Member.”


Rep. Jerrold Nadler (N.Y.) was also overheard saying that “we can’t trust him” not to cave to Republicans and extend the tax cuts again in two years, according to a Democratic source.

The anger aimed at the bill was widespread. As Democrats moved to block the bill from coming up on the floor, chants of “Just say no!” could be heard by reporters outside the room.

Nice to finally see them grow some balls. Sad to see them have to do it against one of their own.
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Re: House Democratic Caucus to Obama: Fuck you, buddy.

Post by spartasman »

Either way, the Republicans are likely to stall any sort of progress, either out of spite, or just because they 'feel' like it.

On the bright side, at least the Democrats finally found the courage to refute Obama's week leadership and challenge the Republicans, even if it is a bit late in the game to make that much of a difference. Hopefully they can get out from under the shadow that Obama has created for them and challenge the Republicans once the sheeple get tired of the Conservatives.
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Re: House Democratic Caucus to Obama: Fuck you, buddy.

Post by Darksider »

spartasman wrote:Either way, the Republicans are likely to stall any sort of progress, either out of spite, or just because they 'feel' like it.

On the bright side, at least the Democrats finally found the courage to refute Obama's week leadership and challenge the Republicans, even if it is a bit late in the game to make that much of a difference. Hopefully they can get out from under the shadow that Obama has created for them and challenge the Republicans once the sheeple get tired of the Conservatives.
That assumes that the American people will get tired of the conservatives at some point. Much to my everlasting shame, my country's love affair with conservatism seems to withstand everything that's ever been thrown at it.
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Re: House Democratic Caucus to Obama: Fuck you, buddy.

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Re: House Democratic Caucus to Obama: Fuck you, buddy.

Post by Phantasee »

Live stream at his website:
http://sanders.senate.gov/
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Re: House Democratic Caucus to Obama: Fuck you, buddy.

Post by wautd »

Phantasee wrote:Live stream at his website:
http://sanders.senate.gov/
It's actually a pretty good speech. Don't have time to watch much longer though
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Re: House Democratic Caucus to Obama: Fuck you, buddy.

Post by Karza »

Hmm, the stream was cut. Can anyone else still see it?
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Re: House Democratic Caucus to Obama: Fuck you, buddy.

Post by Phantasee »

No, I haven't been able to access it for a while now. Conspiracy?

Still up here:
http://www.c-span.org/Watch/C-SPAN2.aspx
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Re: House Democratic Caucus to Obama: Fuck you, buddy.

Post by Phantasee »

LOL! He started reading train schedules from the 30s. I've heard stories of legislators reading from the phone book, but really? And it's related to his point, too.

Listening to him is getting pretty depressing, though.
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Re: House Democratic Caucus to Obama: Fuck you, buddy.

Post by ShadowDragon8685 »

Phantasee wrote:LOL! He started reading train schedules from the 30s. I've heard stories of legislators reading from the phone book, but really? And it's related to his point, too.

Listening to him is getting pretty depressing, though.
Listening to him, his voice reminds me of recordings of JFK for some reason.
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Re: House Democratic Caucus to Obama: Fuck you, buddy.

Post by bobalot »

It's amazing that Obama has pissed off his base SO MUCH that even the normally spinless Democratic legislators have gotten stirred up.

Obama just doesn't get it. Talk of bi-partisanship is pie-in-the-sky bullshit. He needs to rally his base and keep it rallied. Republicans have always understood this.
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Re: House Democratic Caucus to Obama: Fuck you, buddy.

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bobalot wrote:It's amazing that Obama has pissed off his base SO MUCH that even the normally spinless Democratic legislators have gotten stirred up.

Obama just doesn't get it. Talk of bi-partisanship is pie-in-the-sky bullshit. He needs to rally his base and keep it rallied. Republicans have always understood this.
Well, this will go down in the politics lessons of the future as how not to run a country: alienating those who were willing to vote for you foolishly chasing after the votes of people who would sooner use a cheese grater for self-gratification than vote for you.


What happened to Mr. Obama circa October 2008? I wish we could get a time machine, bring him to the here and now, show him the state of the world and ask him if this is what he's aiming for. What happened to the guy who looked to be ready to come out swinging?

Hell, what happened to the guy who, on national television, vowed to kick asses over the BP oil spill as soon as he identified whose asses needed to be kicked?
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Re: House Democratic Caucus to Obama: Fuck you, buddy.

Post by Psychic_Sandwich »

Either way, the Republicans are likely to stall any sort of progress, either out of spite, or just because they 'feel' like it.
The Republicans can't stall any progress. They want the tax cuts extended, which requires that something be done. If anybody stalls, then they expire and the Republicans lose. That's why Senator Sanders is talking about trade with China at the moment.
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Re: House Democratic Caucus to Obama: Fuck you, buddy.

Post by Morilore »

ShadowDragon8685 wrote:What happened to Mr. Obama circa October 2008? I wish we could get a time machine, bring him to the here and now, show him the state of the world and ask him if this is what he's aiming for. What happened to the guy who looked to be ready to come out swinging?
There never was such a person. "Come out swinging" was never his pitch. He sang the praises of compromise and bipartisanship from the very start. The reason Obama seemed like a breath of fresh air was that he made you think he actually had a vision of the future beyond <tired political talking point>. The fact that he turned out to be a crypto-right-wing douchebag is pretty appalling, but let's not pretend that we thought we were voting for a left-wing pit bull.
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Re: House Democratic Caucus to Obama: Fuck you, buddy.

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Obama just trotted out President Clinton who assures us this is the best possible deal we can get. He recognizes that his credibility is such shit with his own base that he pulls Bill Clinton out of his ass to buttress this deal. I kinda wanna tell Mr. Obama that a pig with lipstick is still just a pig and no amount of Clintonian charm is going to make it look any prettier.
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Re: House Democratic Caucus to Obama: Fuck you, buddy.

Post by ShadowDragon8685 »

Stravo wrote:Obama just trotted out President Clinton who assures us this is the best possible deal we can get. He recognizes that his credibility is such shit with his own base that he pulls Bill Clinton out of his ass to buttress this deal. I kinda wanna tell Mr. Obama that a pig with lipstick is still just a pig and no amount of Clintonian charm is going to make it look any prettier.
I guess it's a bit easier to get ahold of him when your office used to be his office back in the day and his wife's on the payroll.

What are the ramifications if we say "fuck the deal" and let the cuts expire anyway? Obviously the Republicans are going to be huge douches about it, of course. But what happens down the road?
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Re: House Democratic Caucus to Obama: Fuck you, buddy.

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ShadowDragon8685 wrote:
What are the ramifications if we say "fuck the deal" and let the cuts expire anyway? Obviously the Republicans are going to be huge douches about it, of course. But what happens down the road?
Possible short term negative economic consequences via umm... quantum?
Our budget gets easier to balance and it might encourage investment in business
Here me out here

If your a small business owner and your being taxed at 10% of your profits what are you going to do with your profits?
Pull them out of the business and either save them, invest them or spend them.
Two of those possibilities might help the US economy, or they might not. Saving the money won't help anyone, but spending or investing it only helps the US economy if you spend or invest it in America. If you use the money to invest in a Indian call center you have not done much to boost jobs in America.

If your a small business owner and your going taxed at say 60% of your profits what are you going to do with your profits?
Your going to plow them back into your business so your profits can grow because 40% of $10,000 is a lot less than 40% of $1,000,000 and to grow your profits you need to make more money with your company. That normally requires investment of some kind and being an American company that usually means investment in America.

This is of course a grossely simplified view of economics but it remains a basic truism that when there are high taxes on a company they tend either try to find a way around said taxes or try to increase the business to the point at which the payout is so hurts less. 40% of 1,000,0000 is more than 40% of 10,000. But you feel your loss on that 10,000 a lot more than off that 1,000,000.

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Re: House Democratic Caucus to Obama: Fuck you, buddy.

Post by Chirios »

This is a bad deal, and it's another compromise on a key issue. Allowing the tax cuts for the top 2% to continue will make things worse anyway, and the other things Obama is getting will be like putting a band aid on a slashed artery.
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Re: House Democratic Caucus to Obama: Fuck you, buddy.

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Mr Bean wrote:Possible short term negative economic consequences via umm... quantum?
Star Trek might be able to get away with that, but I don't think it flies in N&P. :lol:

Which is probably why the GOP will shriek that it'll be bad without providing even an idea of how or why, because it won't be bad for anyone except the uber-rich who want to be richer.
Our budget gets easier to balance and it might encourage investment in business
Here me out here

If your a small business owner and your being taxed at 10% of your profits what are you going to do with your profits?
Pull them out of the business and either save them, invest them or spend them.
Two of those possibilities might help the US economy, or they might not. Saving the money won't help anyone, but spending or investing it only helps the US economy if you spend or invest it in America. If you use the money to invest in a Indian call center you have not done much to boost jobs in America.

If your a small business owner and your going taxed at say 60% of your profits what are you going to do with your profits?
Your going to plow them back into your business so your profits can grow because 40% of $10,000 is a lot less than 40% of $1,000,000 and to grow your profits you need to make more money with your company. That normally requires investment of some kind and being an American company that usually means investment in America.

This is of course a grossely simplified view of economics but it remains a basic truism that when there are high taxes on a company they tend either try to find a way around said taxes or try to increase the business to the point at which the payout is so hurts less. 40% of 1,000,0000 is more than 40% of 10,000. But you feel your loss on that 10,000 a lot more than off that 1,000,000.
Unfortunately, the natural inclination of business is to try and get around taxes rather than working harder. That said, you're right.

Perhaps the solution is to scrap the tax code altogether, replace it with something much simpler and harder to loophole through, and give auditors broad discretionary powers to sock penalties and fees to people and companies who try to hide their money?

Maybe having any money whatsoever in the Cayman Islands (for example) should, upon being discovered, be automatic grounds to seize every single cent and piece of property you own that hands can be laid upon... Yeah, never happen, but it's amusing to contemplate at least.
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Re: House Democratic Caucus to Obama: Fuck you, buddy.

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Unfortunately, the natural inclination of business is to try and get around taxes rather than working harder. That said, you're right.
If they could make money working harder, they would be doing it already. This isn't entirely true, but for the most part is a good rule of thumb.
Perhaps the solution is to scrap the tax code altogether, replace it with something much simpler and harder to loophole through, and give auditors broad discretionary powers to sock penalties and fees to people and companies who try to hide their money?
Simplfying the tax code is a good idea... but whenever law makers in the US have tried, it ends up longer. I don't think there is a real alternative.
Maybe having any money whatsoever in the Cayman Islands (for example) should, upon being discovered, be automatic grounds to seize every single cent and piece of property you own that hands can be laid upon... Yeah, never happen, but it's amusing to contemplate at least.
That would encourage people to murder IRS agents. I don't think we should go that far although the tax code should be harsher for such large scale evasions.
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Re: House Democratic Caucus to Obama: Fuck you, buddy.

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A tax code without loopholes is easy to do you just have to embrace hard limits. First off you have to get rid of tax breaks because that's were loopholes come from or institute a hard limit on how much tax breaks you can claim.

IE if you make 20,000 a year you are taxed 20%. 4000$ in taxes each year. Your tax breaks can not reduce your taxes more than lets say 75% meaning you get a max of 1000$ of your taxes, no tax breaks? You pay 4000$ a year. Your next limit is at 60,000 now you pay 30% on the 40,000 between 20,000 to 60,000. 12,000 in taxes each year plus the 4,000 for the first 20,000 meaning 16,000 in taxes each year. With tax breaks minimum you pay is 12,000 a year.
OK lets set the next limit at 250,000 at 35%. So 60k-250k or 66,500 a year in taxes plus 18,000 in the previous two levels so 84,500 times .75 is 63,375 minimum in taxes each year. What about above 250k? Lets say you have two final limits 40% for 251k-1000k and 50% above 1 million to infinity. We can build in join filing (Your spouse wages only count 50% if you file jointly if you add your income to hers) You could fill out your taxes in one page if we had a tax code that simple. But we don't because we invent dozens of new taxes and add and remove tax benefits every year and sneak them into dozens of bills. Which is why tax prepares have to fill out a minimum of thirty pages to fill out your Federal taxes and even the 1040 EZ form requires six people getting copies of it.

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Re: House Democratic Caucus to Obama: Fuck you, buddy.

Post by ShadowDragon8685 »

Samuel wrote:
Unfortunately, the natural inclination of business is to try and get around taxes rather than working harder. That said, you're right.
If they could make money working harder, they would be doing it already. This isn't entirely true, but for the most part is a good rule of thumb.
You're right, as a practical matter there are limitations to working harder. However, unfortunately, companies being the voracious soulless beasts they are, aren't content to put in a good, hard year's work, dot their "i"s and cross their "t"s, pay the tax man his due and their workers a fair wage and go home with a good profit and a good year's work behind them.

No. They naturally strive the funnel every goddamned cent they can get into the hands of those who need it the least, because that's what companies do. That's what money is - it's like mass in a vacuum. The more of it there is in one place, the more of it tends to accumulate there - this is the reason why a company will do everything they possibly can do to maximize profits at the expense of minor things like the environment, workplace safety, tax dodges and at times outright breaking the law.

If a company calculates that the fees, fines and penalties for breaking the law are less than the profits they stand to make, a business 'ethicist' will argue that the company is obligated to break the law, because its sole concern is funneling money into the shareholders' hands.

That's why the best way to consider a company is to consider it an evil beast focused singlemindedly on one thing: accumulating financial wealth, and it knows no moral boundaries past which it will not stoop, only concerned with the practical boundaries of whether the consequences will outweigh the rewards. (And frighteningly enough, nowadays they're so damn short-sighted that they don't even look past the next quarterly review.)


Yes, I'm a jaded and cynical bastard.

Perhaps the solution is to scrap the tax code altogether, replace it with something much simpler and harder to loophole through, and give auditors broad discretionary powers to sock penalties and fees to people and companies who try to hide their money?
Simplfying the tax code is a good idea... but whenever law makers in the US have tried, it ends up longer. I don't think there is a real alternative.
That's because they always try to revise, and the U.S. Code is already an impossible mess. What you'd have to do is burn all existing tax code to the ground and start over - a little line of legislation stating that henceforth all tax law codified prior to this date is null and void is where you'd start, followed immediately by the lines outlining the new and hopefully progressive tax law.

Maybe having any money whatsoever in the Cayman Islands (for example) should, upon being discovered, be automatic grounds to seize every single cent and piece of property you own that hands can be laid upon... Yeah, never happen, but it's amusing to contemplate at least.
That would encourage people to murder IRS agents. I don't think we should go that far although the tax code should be harsher for such large scale evasions.
The IRS is allowed to search and seize without a warrant and they come with body armor and shotguns. They can take care of themselves. :)

More seriously, that's why I said it was amusing to contemplate but would never happen. Point is, I think people who try to dodge and hide paying their fare share need to have it socked to them so hard that they'll (a) never consider trying it again, and more importantly (b) stand as an object example to other greedy fucks who may be thinking about doing the same thing.

Ideally, what I'd want would be the complete forfeiture of exactly what was hidden away, but the problem is that we'd need to actually invade Grand Cayman in order to figure that out, thanks to the nature of how such things are hidden.

Hence my sarcastic and bitter suggestion; "If we can't touch what you've hidden away, we'll take everything else. Enjoy what you've got on Grand Cayman, because chances are it doesn't amount to as much as we've just taken."
CaptainChewbacca wrote:Dude...

Way to overwork a metaphor Shadow. I feel really creeped out now.
I am an artist, metaphorical mind-fucks are my medium.
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Re: House Democratic Caucus to Obama: Fuck you, buddy.

Post by Coyote »

Morilore wrote:
ShadowDragon8685 wrote:What happened to the guy who looked to be ready to come out swinging?
There never was such a person. "Come out swinging" was never his pitch. He sang the praises of compromise and bipartisanship from the very start.
Well, at one point he did say that the "tax breaks for millionaires offended his conscience"... I guess they didn't offend him all that much. It was one of his repartees to something John McCain said at one point.
Something about Libertarianism always bothered me. Then one day, I realized what it was:
Libertarian philosophy can be boiled down to the phrase, "Work Will Make You Free."


In Libertarianism, there is no Government, so the Bosses are free to exploit the Workers.
In Communism, there is no Government, so the Workers are free to exploit the Bosses.
So in Libertarianism, man exploits man, but in Communism, its the other way around!

If all you want to do is have some harmless, mindless fun, go H3RE INST3ADZ0RZ!!
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Re: House Democratic Caucus to Obama: Fuck you, buddy.

Post by ShadowOfMadness »

Mr Bean wrote:A tax code without loopholes is easy to do you just have to embrace hard limits. First off you have to get rid of tax breaks because that's were loopholes come from or institute a hard limit on how much tax breaks you can claim.
No. Just...no.

Business expenses have to be allowed without limit. (e.g. I know many, may businesses with profit margins ~10-15%. Some years that can hit 0%.)

You might just say 'Let us tax only profit & employee income'?

Ya, then people have company cars. Every meal while at work is a working/buisness meal. Everyone gets high end medical insurance instead of a certain percentage of their income as a buisness expense.

So you need to write rules to limit it from abuse.

The US tax code is a fucking horrible mess. An oversimplified tax code would be even worse.
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Re: House Democratic Caucus to Obama: Fuck you, buddy.

Post by MKSheppard »

Stravo wrote:Obama just trotted out President Clinton who assures us this is the best possible deal we can get. He recognizes that his credibility is such shit with his own base that he pulls Bill Clinton out of his ass to buttress this deal.
Even better; he left during the presser to go to a christmas party with Michelle, and Clinton was all alone in the podium, and continued like it was 2000 and he was president again. :mrgreen:

From NYT:

Link
The president stood by Mr. Clinton’s side for several minutes as Mr. Clinton held court in front of the White House logo that often hovered behind him a decade ago.

But after Mr. Clinton began taking questions, the current president excused himself, saying that his wife, Michelle, expected Mr. Obama’s presence at one of the many holiday parties that presidents host during the month of December.

“I’ve been keeping the first lady waiting,” Mr. Obama said, excusing himself.
“I don’t want to make her mad,” Mr. Clinton said. “Please go.”

And with that, Mr. Obama departed, leaving Mr. Clinton to continue his extended conversation with the media. The image on the television screen – of Mr. Clinton at the White House, behind the official podium – had a time-warp quality to it.
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