You're Captain Yelland of the USS Nimitz and...

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Ilya Muromets
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Re: You're Captain Yelland of the USS Nimitz and...

Post by Ilya Muromets »

Has anyone seriously given a thought to how an American society still a long way off from desegration would react to an entire modern carrier with a fully-integrated crew and black officers, and vice versa? For the duration of the war, that'd likely be ignored. But after?
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Re: You're Captain Yelland of the USS Nimitz and...

Post by weemadando »

Ilya Muromets wrote:Has anyone seriously given a thought to how an American society still a long way off from desegration would react to an entire modern carrier with a fully-integrated crew and black officers, and vice versa? For the duration of the war, that'd likely be ignored. But after?
Ahem.

http://www.amazon.com/Weapons-Choice-Ax ... 0345457129

I'll plug it again.

And fuck you haters. Go and read some Murray Bail or Tim Winton or Margaret Atwood and talk about it with your other wanker friends while you hate on Australian literature that actually sells overseas like JB and Reilly.
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Re: You're Captain Yelland of the USS Nimitz and...

Post by Lonestar »

Eternal_Freedom wrote:I have a question that is sort-of related to this but I don't think it's worth starting a new thread:

Why is it just called the USS Nimitz?
When other USN ships named after people include first names (JFK, Harry Truman, John Stennis, Carl Vinson and so on), why isnt it the USS Chester Nimitz?
The Forrestal only had one name, most Destroyers only have one name.

I think you are searching for an excuse where there isn't one.

IIRC only the Nimitz went through the wormhole, so logically any PLAN CV should be there by itself.
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Re: You're Captain Yelland of the USS Nimitz and...

Post by Darth Hoth »

Ilya Muromets wrote:Has anyone seriously given a thought to how an American society still a long way off from desegration would react to an entire modern carrier with a fully-integrated crew and black officers, and vice versa? For the duration of the war, that'd likely be ignored. But after?
Easy. Anyone who was any good would immediately and completely accept feminism, homosexualism, anti-racism, hip-hop music and all other modern, enlightened values, regardless of how alien these are to their own historical context, and befriend the future people, even when they come across everywhere as completely unsympathetic asses. The future people would be given total autonomy by FDR so they could work for producing a more tolerant and integrated 1942(-ish).

Meanwhile, all the right-wingers who opposed these would turn into completely retarded idiots for no reason and discredit their own cause, usually also be exposed as monstrous hypocrites and/or die horribly when their evil schemes against Justice & Equal Opportunities backfire.

(For those who have not read it, this was the Cliff's Notes version of the aforementioned Axis of Time trilogy. Basically a huge load of silly wank that would make Shep cry, with politićs marginally less heavy-handed than those of some rather hated Baen authors, but hardline liberal rather than militarist-lolbertarian.)
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Re: You're Captain Yelland of the USS Nimitz and...

Post by Samuel »

Your kidding, right? I can see them pulling off a bit of enlightened future values if only because the fact you are from the future means it will win out, but being given autonomy? What the heck? When did they decide to throw out civilian control of the military?
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Re: You're Captain Yelland of the USS Nimitz and...

Post by AniThyng »

Samuel wrote:Your kidding, right? I can see them pulling off a bit of enlightened future values if only because the fact you are from the future means it will win out, but being given autonomy? What the heck? When did they decide to throw out civilian control of the military?
1) The act granting the future task force a special administrative zone has a sunset clause

2) It seemed more like autonomy from the existing 1942 military command structure and from local laws, using the future UMCJ instead (e.g. the future task force commander would not take orders from Nimitz but instead report directly to Roosevelt, and 1942 laws against racial intergration and homosexuality would not be applicable), not so much from the civilian leadership. I suppose you could also invoke all manner of martial law things since this was the height of ww2...and the Australian submarine in the task force would eventually be nominally under the contemporary RAN. It's not quite how you seem to be picturing it.
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Re: You're Captain Yelland of the USS Nimitz and...

Post by chitoryu12 »

Samuel wrote:Your kidding, right? I can see them pulling off a bit of enlightened future values if only because the fact you are from the future means it will win out, but being given autonomy? What the heck? When did they decide to throw out civilian control of the military?
I'm fairly certain he was joking. So certain, I'd bet all my savings on it.

Here's a questions: We've wondered what happens to society when a bunch of time travelers and their modern values suddenly appear in the 1940s. What about the crew? These guys have just been transplanted 40 years into the past with apparently no way of returning home. As far as they know, there is no chance that they'll see their loved ones again, at least not in this form. If they ever see their families and lovers, it'll be as their elderly selves.

Also, society's changed quite a bit. How are they going to handle not only the concept of losing almost everything from their life, but they're in a world where every minority crew member, from blacks to gays, will face discrimination and bigotry. They'll all have to re-live the civil rights movement and everything bad that happened before and during it, as well as facing new standards of social acceptability, responsibility, and gender roles, all of which will seem outdated to them.

Honestly, I'd be surprised if most of the crew can handle the strain. Assuming they don't have problems with them cracking DURING a mission.
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Re: You're Captain Yelland of the USS Nimitz and...

Post by jollyreaper »

weemadando wrote:
Ilya Muromets wrote:Has anyone seriously given a thought to how an American society still a long way off from desegration would react to an entire modern carrier with a fully-integrated crew and black officers, and vice versa? For the duration of the war, that'd likely be ignored. But after?
Ahem.

http://www.amazon.com/Weapons-Choice-Ax ... 0345457129

I'll plug it again.

And fuck you haters. Go and read some Murray Bail or Tim Winton or Margaret Atwood and talk about it with your other wanker friends while you hate on Australian literature that actually sells overseas like JB and Reilly.
It's a guilty pleasure. Got a bit much of the impervious action hero thing going on with the ground pounders. Loved Himmler trying to figure out a buggy Microsoft product and grousing "To think their history books called us monsters!"
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Re: You're Captain Yelland of the USS Nimitz and...

Post by jollyreaper »

Darth Hoth wrote: (For those who have not read it, this was the Cliff's Notes version of the aforementioned Axis of Time trilogy. Basically a huge load of silly wank that would make Shep cry, with politićs marginally less heavy-handed than those of some rather hated Baen authors, but hardline liberal rather than militarist-lolbertarian.)
You forgot to mention that the aircraft carrier at the center of the story was the USS Hillary Clinton, named after President Hillary, and just as conservatives are spitting out their teeth in frustration at the very idea of that, the Clinton was leading a UN battle group in a war against Islamic radicals when the time travel event happened. Talk about conflicted emotions now! lol
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Re: You're Captain Yelland of the USS Nimitz and...

Post by jollyreaper »

AniThyng wrote:
Samuel wrote:Your kidding, right? I can see them pulling off a bit of enlightened future values if only because the fact you are from the future means it will win out, but being given autonomy? What the heck? When did they decide to throw out civilian control of the military?
1) The act granting the future task force a special administrative zone has a sunset clause

2) It seemed more like autonomy from the existing 1942 military command structure and from local laws, using the future UMCJ instead (e.g. the future task force commander would not take orders from Nimitz but instead report directly to Roosevelt, and 1942 laws against racial intergration and homosexuality would not be applicable), not so much from the civilian leadership. I suppose you could also invoke all manner of martial law things since this was the height of ww2...and the Australian submarine in the task force would eventually be nominally under the contemporary RAN. It's not quite how you seem to be picturing it.
The rationale was that the Allies needed to start reverse-engineering the future tech and so the first order of business was to figure out who of the uptimers had applicable engineering skills and put them in that zone. The 1940's companies whose future IP was present onboard the task force would then get to take part in the development of that economic zone. The idea of making it autonomous was to keep it separate from any of the strife that would occur by trying to do things within the current system.

J. Edgar Hoover was portrayed as a complete asshole in the book which is actually rather like how he was in reality. Fuck Hoover.
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Re: You're Captain Yelland of the USS Nimitz and...

Post by jollyreaper »

Pelranius wrote:
MKSheppard wrote:Here's an even more amusing what if. Replace the Nimitz with a notational Chinese PLA(N) CV with J-15 Flying Sharks from about 2017-2019.
Oh, I like that!

Shall we use the Varyag (former)?

And how many 052C+/D DDGs and 054A frigates should we give it. And what about a replenishment ship? And submarines?
You could also make it not be from our own timeline but one where China was a whole lot stronger. I'll leave the alternate history speculation up to everyone else but what if they showed up with something in advance of even a US super-carrier? And they're miffed because the timeline they're looking at right now clearly doesn't mesh with their own history books.
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Re: You're Captain Yelland of the USS Nimitz and...

Post by Chris OFarrell »

What got me annoyed in that AOT trilogy is how fast the USSR advanced, with nothing but a single ship stuck in the middle of Siberia (and a highly uncooperative crew). Hell, there is no way in hell they could have even learned to use the computers on the thing, let alone cracked any security measures.

Let alone end up with Mig-15 hoards, BMP's, Helix's and a whole Pacific fleet pulled out of their asses in a couple of years.

But I digress.

A question regarding the scenario; what is the nominal combat range of the S3 Vikings a Nimitz in this scenario would carry? Assuming you got a couple of intruders on hand to do air to air refueling, all operating from land bases around the North Atlantic? Perhaps even a few Seakings on an Escort carrier or two, although they would be vulnerable to their ships being sunk if they get caught off guard...

Because you shouldn't need that much in the way of assets to shut down the U-Boat threat. And if you can do that, a LOT of things in Europe become a lot easier.
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Re: You're Captain Yelland of the USS Nimitz and...

Post by TimothyC »

Ted C wrote:Isn't it pretty close to kerosene? I think 1940's refineries should be able to manage it.
Biggest issue is going to be making enough of it.
Chaotic Neutral wrote: As far as I know, the U.S. Military does not have plans for time travel.
The military has plans for just about everything. A time travel scenario is a lot like the Zombie scenario in that it forces people to think through the planning process without any issues relating to the realism of it.
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Re: You're Captain Yelland of the USS Nimitz and...

Post by RazeByFire »

It might be interesting to see Captain Yelland giving his personal opinion to FDR, since he would probably ask for it. After Yelland has told him that he will follow his orders regardless, he might tell FDR that he feels that a demonstration of a few weapons should be done to avoid having to use the nukes for real. Since he's lived with the threat of Nuclear Armageddon for so long, it's possible he just wouldn't want to use them until the other side was warned.

Not saying he wouldn't, but that he'd want the Axis to be thouroughly warned first.
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