RAR. Aliens? have been detected. You must advise POTUS.

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Re: RAR. Aliens? have been detected. You must advise POTUS.

Post by Uncluttered »

FaxModem1 wrote:Mr. President,

Is the current funding of NASA still the same as it was before the discovering of this thing? If so, we need to reevaluate that. You always need more eggheads to make an omelet. Or something like that.

Also, wouldn't now be a good time to see about making some form of Ark or Time capsule in case this thing is a Von Neumann probe coming to wipe out the entire human race?

Charles Woods.
Mr Woods.

You needn't worry. The President is having someone draft up an emergency funding bill for Space infrastructure.
The President has always felt that if we can spend Trillians on a war he didn't support, we can spend billions on space exploration.
This will not be a blank check. Ideally, President wants to spur on a private space industry.

As for the Ark, I'm not sure if we don't already have some sort of deep bunker. One of you military guys would know more about it that me.

I suspect someone in the world already has a time capsule.
Perhaps you can discreetly check on it and make sure it's up to date. I've researched you on google, and know you have acquaintances who are building a 10000 year clock. A time capsule isn't very far off.
At the very least, we have the gold records on the Voyagers.

I sincerely hope we don't need one.
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Re: RAR. Aliens? have been detected. You must advise POTUS.

Post by Lonestar »

Uncluttered wrote:
As for the Ark, I'm not sure if we don't already have some sort of deep bunker. One of you military guys would know more about it that me.

Good Afternoon Mr. President;

In fact we have several continuity of government facilities within 300 miles of the DC area, with more throughout the country. While we should continue to allow the "public" COG facilities such as AJCC and Mt. Weather to continue to be stood up, I highly recommend against utilizing our more sensitive facilities in George Washington National Forest and the Shenandoah, as elevated activity may tip off the locations to our rivals.

I would also recommend restricting the elevation of our strategic assets (that is, our DEFCON levels) until we have conferred with the other nuclear powers and have an agreed upon course of what role the military will take in this. It is nearly Christmas, and calling home servicemembers on leave without saying why will alarm the PRC and Russia.

I do need some guidance on what we can tell our Defense attaches(which fall under the DIA's purview) who are being question at literally dozens of embassies around the world by the host militaries in regards to the objects. A clear signal must be given to our allies + China&Russia as soon as possible.

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Re: RAR. Aliens? have been detected. You must advise POTUS.

Post by open_sketchbook »

(Redoing my post in line with the thread this time :P)

Mr. President,

My name is Dr. Layton Dreer, Transhuman Institute for Artificial Intelligence* here on the request of the NSA, who are concerned about possible security issues regarding the alien craft. Regarding that, it is my belief that the alien craft probably contains no biological creatures at all, and that it is likely the "aliens" are actually inorganic, in the form of artificial intelligences which may or may not retain thought patterns from biological organisms. Even if there are biological aliens aboard, which I think is unlikely due to the difficulties of keeping living things alive in space, they'll probably have brought an AI along with them or artificially augmented their brains. The upshot is, we need to be prepared to deal with transhuman intelligences.

Our brains compared to a transhuman intelligence will not be the different between an average person and an Einstein. It won't even be the difference between us and a dog. Using a modern day server room, an AI could do as much thinking in half and hour as a person does in five years. Depending on what sort of system they are running over on that ship, they could concievably create an accurate model of our brains, given enough data, and use it to "hack" our brains; say exactly what they need to say to get us to do what they want. I imagine we want to avoid that.

Now, it may be that the AI has not been programmed with any obligation to care about sentient beings, in which case it will do what it wants and we should just get out of the way and not make ourselves targets. It might, however, have some sort of interest in our existence which means we might be able to make meaningful contact with it. Keep in mind, though, that the first possibility might be the case and it might just fake the latter if they think it'll help them fullfil their goals and we won't be smart enough to know the difference.

If this is the case, we have to consider all our computer security essentially worthless. If an AI gets into our system, they will crack our security with ease and get any information they want and there is nothing we can do on the digital side of things to stop them. In other words, if you have information you don't want the aliens knowing, print hard copies and get it off computers now, it's the only way to be sure.

The other thing we need to do is ensure we don't start talking to them until we are ready. Given time, a transhuman intelligence will have no problem manipulating a person to believe or do pretty much anything it wants. We need to make sure we talk on our terms so we can put systems in place to prevent it from "hacking" our brains. When we talk, we need to have a system in place to prevent this. We'll work on a system to help prevent this and hopefully have a proposal ready for if we establish communications.

Speaking of establishing communications, I recommend we do it ourselves if we're going to do it at all. We don't want them doing it first and we should probably beat other nations or organizations to it to prevent them from talking without a good filter in place. The last thing we need is for Hu Jintao to start talking with the aliens and come away convinced he needs to launch missiles at us or something.

On a lighter note, AI aliens means two quite real advantages; we might not need to meet face to face at any point, removing issues of landing sites, meeting areas and biological contamination, and teaching them english will be as simple as sending them a big writing sample and letting them decode it.



(*OOC : Modelled after a few real-life AI-related organizations, to give the character more flexibility than if they were a tenured professor working on the "hows" of AI research instead of behavior theory)
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Re: RAR. Aliens? have been detected. You must advise POTUS.

Post by JGregory32 »

Mr. President I can speak to the capsule issue as it has been of some interest to me in the past. The short answer is that the Earth is awash in time capsules, created by both public and private organizations. The sticking point is the records of where these capsules are and when they should be opened is not maintained very well. While there is an effort to centralize these records it can be very hit and miss.
BTW Here are a few links if anybody cares to pursue this subject.
The Crypt of Civilization
http://www.oglethorpe.edu/about_us/cryp ... ociety.asp
Ten incredible Time Capsules
http://listverse.com/2009/04/27/top-10- ... -capsules/
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Re: RAR. Aliens? have been detected. You must advise POTUS.

Post by JGregory32 »

Mr. President I can speak to the capsule issue as it has been of some interest to me in the past. The short answer is that the Earth is awash in time capsules, created by both public and private organizations. The sticking point is the records of where these capsules are and when they should be opened is not maintained very well. While there is an effort to centralize these records it can be very hit and miss.
BTW Here are a few links if anybody cares to pursue this subject.
The Crypt of Civilization
http://www.oglethorpe.edu/about_us/cryp ... ociety.asp
Ten incredible Time Capsules
http://listverse.com/2009/04/27/top-10- ... -capsules/
Image
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Re: RAR. Aliens? have been detected. You must advise POTUS.

Post by Uncluttered »

Very good Mr. Woods.

It gives me the idea to put a record of our proceedings here, along with the Cassini, and telescope data in a few of these.

Our descendents, xenoarcheologists, or perhaps evolved badgers, should know what happened to us, or at least have something interesting to read, should these aliens decide to wipe us out.

Mr. Woods, I suspect you are already writing another book about this. Be sure to put in a copy.
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Re: RAR. Aliens? have been detected. You must advise POTUS.

Post by Uncluttered »

open_sketchbook wrote:(Redoing my post in line with the thread this time :P)

Mr. President,

My name is Dr. Layton Dreer, Transhuman Institute for Artificial Intelligence* here on the request of the NSA, who are concerned about possible security issues regarding the alien craft. Regarding that, it is my belief that the alien craft probably contains no biological creatures at all, and that it is likely the "aliens" are actually inorganic, in the form of artificial intelligences which may or may not retain thought patterns from biological organisms. Even if there are biological aliens aboard, which I think is unlikely due to the difficulties of keeping living things alive in space, they'll probably have brought an AI along with them or artificially augmented their brains. The upshot is, we need to be prepared to deal with transhuman intelligences.

Our brains compared to a transhuman intelligence will not be the different between an average person and an Einstein. It won't even be the difference between us and a dog. Using a modern day server room, an AI could do as much thinking in half and hour as a person does in five years. Depending on what sort of system they are running over on that ship, they could concievably create an accurate model of our brains, given enough data, and use it to "hack" our brains; say exactly what they need to say to get us to do what they want. I imagine we want to avoid that.

Now, it may be that the AI has not been programmed with any obligation to care about sentient beings, in which case it will do what it wants and we should just get out of the way and not make ourselves targets. It might, however, have some sort of interest in our existence which means we might be able to make meaningful contact with it. Keep in mind, though, that the first possibility might be the case and it might just fake the latter if they think it'll help them fullfil their goals and we won't be smart enough to know the difference.

If this is the case, we have to consider all our computer security essentially worthless. If an AI gets into our system, they will crack our security with ease and get any information they want and there is nothing we can do on the digital side of things to stop them. In other words, if you have information you don't want the aliens knowing, print hard copies and get it off computers now, it's the only way to be sure.

The other thing we need to do is ensure we don't start talking to them until we are ready. Given time, a transhuman intelligence will have no problem manipulating a person to believe or do pretty much anything it wants. We need to make sure we talk on our terms so we can put systems in place to prevent it from "hacking" our brains. When we talk, we need to have a system in place to prevent this. We'll work on a system to help prevent this and hopefully have a proposal ready for if we establish communications.

Speaking of establishing communications, I recommend we do it ourselves if we're going to do it at all. We don't want them doing it first and we should probably beat other nations or organizations to it to prevent them from talking without a good filter in place. The last thing we need is for Hu Jintao to start talking with the aliens and come away convinced he needs to launch missiles at us or something.

On a lighter note, AI aliens means two quite real advantages; we might not need to meet face to face at any point, removing issues of landing sites, meeting areas and biological contamination, and teaching them english will be as simple as sending them a big writing sample and letting them decode it.



(*OOC : Modelled after a few real-life AI-related organizations, to give the character more flexibility than if they were a tenured professor working on the "hows" of AI research instead of behavior theory)
Thank you Dr. Dreer.
Your statement gives me pause. I know the President will have questions, and the press corps will undoubtedly have them too.

Do we have any reason to believe that the alien probe knows we are here?
Does it have any reason to care we are here?
Why didn't the probe come to earth?
Would it expect us to communicate?
Could it already be attempting to communicate?
Is there any way to prevent the aliens from modeling our brains?
Is it too late?

I would like for us to post a few Q&As for the press conference.
The format will be Question. Answer possible1, Answer Possible2 etc.
Q: Do the Aliens have a peaceful intent.
A1: Yes. They are clearly peaceful, because they could have already wiped us out.
A2: No. They could already have moved a killer asteroid into our path, and we wouldn't know for years.
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Re: RAR. Aliens? have been detected. You must advise POTUS.

Post by Eternal_Freedom »

Good day Mr. President. I am Dr. Wallace, CIA Deputy Director of Science and Technology

At this time I can confirm the view of the DIA that the news will break in Europe within days. I have received several discrete contacts from my former colleagues in the astronomical community, asking if I know anything about a mass retasking of US telescopes. Suspicion is on the rise that the US has found something in space.

As for the press release, I was involved in SETI programs during my time as a professional astronomer, so I have set up a team here at DS&T to create scenarios for the media reaction. I therefore propose the following likely questions and suggested answers. Some of them will probably be covered during the statement, but reporters like to ask things to be sure of the details:

Q: Is there any indication this object is indeed alien in origin?
A: NASA and other space agencies and observatories are still gathering data but the consensus is that it is indeed artificial and hence alien

Q: Have there been any hostile actions?
A: No. The object around Saturn has remained in place and hasn't reacted to the Cassini probe.

Q: What plans are in place should it turn hostile?
A: Our military forces are creating contingency plans as we speak but for obvious reasons these must remain classified at this time

Q: What is the absolute worst-case scenario?
A: The worst-case scenario is the total destruction of the human race, but we consider that to be extremely unlikely

Q: Are we going to try and contact this object?
A: We are still debating whether to send a direct message but contact is inevitable, all the radio signals and messages we have sent in the past will undoubtably have been detected by this object

That's all we have for now My President, we have several teams working on this round the clock. Our current highest priority is liasing with NASA, NSA and DIA to analyse the current data and create a threat-assesment.

Other teams are working with DDO and DDI to try and learn what other nations know of the situation, they are awaiting reports and will inform you of them when they arrive. Additional ideas for the press conference will be submitted ASAP

Dr Wallace, CIA DDS&T
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Re: RAR. Aliens? have been detected. You must advise POTUS.

Post by FaxModem1 »

Mr. President.

Charles Woods, civilian adviser. Is this in any way going to affect our military deployment? Will we be moving troops out of deployed areas? I believe these will be questions the Press might ask.
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Re: RAR. Aliens? have been detected. You must advise POTUS.

Post by open_sketchbook »

I wish I could provide more concrete answers for you, Mr. President, but we don't have as much data as I would like. It's all just guesswork until somebody starts talking.

Q. Do we have any reason to believe that the alien probe knows we are here?
A. The aliens would have known before they even hit the system that Earth would support water ice, and if they've even bothered to look in our direction they would have seen us due to light pollution and the heat from our artificial satellites. They should also be picking up transmissions from us passively at this point. Unless they absolutely do not care at all and don't bother looking around, they know we are here and probably a lot more about us besides.

Q. Does it have any reason to care we are here?
A. That depends entirely on what they are looking for. At this point, I'd venture a guess that they don't care and won't care unless it looks like we are gonig to get in their way. If they are looking for something around Saturn, there is an off-chance they might think we're competing with them for it thanks to the Cassini probe, and it might decide the easiest way to ensure that it completes it's objective is to destroy the probe, or us, but there isn't much we can do about that now. My personal guess is we're not on their radar, so to speak; "look for life" isn't part of their mission so they aren't going to react to us unless we get in their way or they think we can help.

Q. Why didn't the probe come to earth?
A. Best guess is that the AI has no particular interest in life over resources or other data, so are looking at the pretty ice volcanoes first. Maybe the alien that programmed it never expected to find life? Note, however, they may be feigning disinterest in us because they want to see how we react, or because they are looking to settle down in the neighbourhood and use local resources, perhaps to make more ships, increase their processing speed, or some other use before they contact us.

Q. Would it expect us to communicate?
A. They know we can communicate and if they were looking at all they would have seen Cassini moving to Saturn, so unless they are entirely single minded they know we know about them and they know we are intelligent and technological so they will expect us to try to communicate.

Q. Could it already be attempting to communicate?
A. Unlikely. They can pick up signals from us, so they know how we communicate. If they wanted to talk, their voice would be on every radio frequency. I think they are waiting for us to make the first move if they care at all.

Q. Is there any way to prevent the aliens from modeling our brains?
A. Yes. We have to filter our conversation with them. Once we've established a secure link with them, we should form a group dedicated to talking with the aliens, use a chatterbot we can influence to speak through, and constantly, and randomly, rotate the speakers, the people deciding what to say, and the software interpreting it. We also keep these people seperate from each other so as to prevent them from homogenizing. We might even want to look at translating it to a random language and translating it back before we transmit to diffuse any cultural concepts they might latch onto. Basically, provide a larger, ever changing sample size of humanity and software so their models have to be more general. They'll still be very convincing if they want to be, but they won't be taking over our brains. They'll know what we're up to, though, so we should tell them up front that's what we're doing so they don't think we're trying to trick them.

Actually, that's a good general policy for communicating with transhuman intelligences. Always tell them what we're doing, because they already know, so it doesn't look like we're trying to hide anything.

Q. Is it too late?
A. I don't think so. From what I understand, we'd have to be blind to miss the heat coming off of an engine large enough to shift a rock to hit us, but I'd double check with the NASA guys about that. It's my belief that, for the moment, we are safe simply because we haven't got their attention yet. Optimally, we don't try to get their attention at all on the off-chance we become a disruption to what they are doing, but at the same time I don't think other nations will be as careful so it might be best if we beat them to the punch.

My advice now would be to throw everything we got behind getting their attention in a non-threatening manner before somebody else who doesn't know any better tries and ticks them off.

My other advise is we say nothing about transhuman intelligences, or indeed, any intelligences, to anyone. In fact, if we get two-way transmissions established, we absolutely need to keep it secret. We tell them it's a dumb, automated probe until we know what it thinks of us. If people learn we are talking to aliens, everyone will be hopping at a chance to transmit and somebody might say the wrong thing or otherwise make us look like a threat or, really, just annoy it too much. Not to mention the threat of them taking over world leaders who decided to talk with the aliens directly.

Finally, this is a little outside my department but we should probably try to figure out how they got to the Solar System in the first place. If they took the long way, I understand that we would have seen them coming from a long ways away, so we might be dealing with them going faster than the speed of light. We might want to bring in some physics guys about that.

Dr. Layton Dreer
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Re: RAR. Aliens? have been detected. You must advise POTUS.

Post by Uncluttered »

Ladies and Gentlemen.


This is some good work here.
I'm happy to say the press package is coming along nicely.

Do we have any new data to report about the objects?


(Hint Hint)
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Re: RAR. Aliens? have been detected. You must advise POTUS.

Post by Raj Ahten »

Mr President,
Our preparations are going well. I'm now confident we could publicize the situation without undue risk of civil disorder. This is good news, especially because US news outlets, not to mention local agencies, are getting very suspicious. Our analysis concurs with the DIA's assesment of how long we have until this situation hits the press in a big way.

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Re: RAR. Aliens? have been detected. You must advise POTUS.

Post by Uncluttered »

Ladies and Gentlemen,

We have some interesting new information.

I have recieved a cable from Dr Wallace, CIA DDS&T.
Dr Wallace, CIA DDS&T wrote: Unconfirmed report provided by CIA DDS&T. Report comes from a professional astronomer who has detected the more distant object and it's radio emissions. The object appears to have divided into two smaller objects, approximately equal in size. Both of these objects remain in the original orbit. No other motion detected. The astronomer has been sworn to secrecy in return for official credit for the discovery

The same astronomer has made an approximation of the orbit: the object(s) are in a 500-year elliptical orbit, with the Sun at one of the foci. DS&T analysts have suggested that this fits the profile of a survey/reconassance mission. with that in mind, the Saturn anomaly is most likely a probe sent for a more detailed look at something of interest in the saturnian system.
I've also been told that a preliminary examination of the material composition of SDA-1 is complete.
Based on optical reflection. SDA-1 appears to be designed for near perfect reflectivity.
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Re: RAR. Aliens? have been detected. You must advise POTUS.

Post by Eternal_Freedom »

Mr President, a follow-up assesment from my analysts here at CIA:

If SDA-1 is indeed a probe sent for a closer look at an object of interest. We believe it is imperative we find out what this object or material is that the probe is investigating. Once we know what it is, we should see about securing a stockpile here on Earth so we have something to trade with the aliens, or if a worst-case scenario occurs, something to buy them off with

I have also received word from my astronomer colleague. His further observations have confirmed the elliptical orbit with a period of 500 +/- 5 years. The two objects are not repeat not circling each other as we would expect from a binary object

As I am already involved with this group, the CIA directors of operations and intelligence have asked me to serve as the CIA representative. We shall soon be able to submit a report on what other nations know of what's going on

Dr Wallace, CIA DDS&T
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Re: RAR. Aliens? have been detected. You must advise POTUS.

Post by open_sketchbook »

Dr Wallace, I must protest! The last thing we need is to get in the way of their resource gathering! If they are unFriendly to us, that is, if they place no special priority on our wellbeing, and they think we are an obsticle to achieving their goals, holding out resources from them, they will exterminate us without a second thought!

There is an analogy we use in AI research of the paperclip AI. For the sake of argument, lets say we have created an AI and tasked it with producing paperclips in the most efficient manner possible. We give it a nanofactory to make equiptment and we provide it with the raw materials to make paperclips. Well, the AI will soon realize that it could produce paperclips faster if there were not all these fleshy things controlling the flow of raw materials and take up space that could be taken up by paperclips. It'll look at it in the long term and come to the perfectly rational conclusion that humanity must be exterminated to make more room for paperclips, and use it's nanofactory to build a machine army, wipe us out, and begin plans to convert the Earth's mass into more paperclips. It'll start drawing up plans for interstellar spacecraft designed to travel to other systems in order to convert the mass there into paperclips.

Humans can be thought of as AIs with "survival", of the species and the individual, as our goal. All of our plans and moral systems are based around making our survival more likely or at least fooling ourselves into thinking we are more likely to survive. Think about how strong the self preservation instinct is. Well, that's how strongly the AI will feel about paperclips, in the example, or whatever resource they are looking for, in the case of this probe if it is unFriendly to us.

If we do determine what the probe is looking for, we should give it to them as a way of getting their attention as potential collaborators, not hold it ransom from them.

Dr. Layton Dreer
Transhuman Institute for Artificial Intelligence
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Re: RAR. Aliens? have been detected. You must advise POTUS.

Post by Night_stalker »

And what if us giving them whatever it is, (which is currently unknown, and could be for all we know nuclear waste, or could be oxygen, or something valuable to us) makes them think that we're pushovers, and they make ludicrous demands like we become one of their colonies, or something similar?

The good news is that we've detected no signs that they've been trying to infiltrate our systems. Of course, if they're AIs like we think they are, then the odds of us finding them are very low, so don't take that as a absolute. The point is, there's no signs that we've been infiltrated. On a side note, I feel that we should at least mention that we really don't have any aliens in Area 51, just to get rid of that whole can of worms.

Alan Smithee, Deputy Direction, Information Assurance, NSA
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Re: RAR. Aliens? have been detected. You must advise POTUS.

Post by Eternal_Freedom »

Dr. Dreer, I believe you have misunderstood. I meant we should secure a stockpile from Earth-based supplies. That will not interfere with operations they may or may not be conducting around Saturn.

On a side note Mr President, I would ask an update from NASA and the military as to our contingency plans if everything does not go swimmingly with the aliens.

Additionally, I have been authorised to offer CIA computer facilities to the NSA for assitance in possible decryption of signals and analysis.

That's all right now Sir,
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Corrax Entry 7:17: So you walk eternally through the shadow realms, standing against evil where all others falter. May your thirst for retribution never quench, may the blood on your sword never dry, and may we never need you again.
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Re: RAR. Aliens? have been detected. You must advise POTUS.

Post by Eternal_Freedom »

A follow up Mr President. We concur with the NSA on this matter. IF we are able to determine what they want and IF we are able to stockpile someourselves, on no account should it be freely given as a "gesture of goodwill." The intent of our original suggestion was to give us a bargaining chip, however low-value it might be it is better than nothing

I direct a question now to the Cassini Phoenix team: have you had any breakthroughs in your analysis of the data that might pertain to what they might be looking for?

I would suggest Mr President that learning this be our highest priority right now
Baltar: "I don't want to miss a moment of the last Battlestar's destruction!"
Centurion: "Sir, I really think you should look at the other Battlestar."
Baltar: "What are you babbling about other...it's impossible!"
Centurion: "No. It is a Battlestar."

Corrax Entry 7:17: So you walk eternally through the shadow realms, standing against evil where all others falter. May your thirst for retribution never quench, may the blood on your sword never dry, and may we never need you again.
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Re: RAR. Aliens? have been detected. You must advise POTUS.

Post by open_sketchbook »

With respect to your areas of expertise, you folks have got this all wrong. We're not talking human politics anymore. We shouldn't be speaking in terms of posturing, trade or bargining chips. This game is a hell of a lot bigger.

Letting them know we have what they want not much of a bargining chip. They have a much better one; give us what we want, or we hit your planet with a big rock. We don't really have an answer to that. We don't just threaten to nuke a country when we want what they have because they might retaliate and because we consider it morally wrong. Well, we can't realistically hope to harm the aliens at the moment and there is a good chance that "ethical" might not even cross their mind, so we are basically at their mercy. "Not looking weak" is meaningless because if they really want something we are going to have to be pushovers or they cheerfully point their engines at us and carve our planet up like thanksgiving turkey.

We can't deal with them as equals, because frankly, we aren't. We don't know much about these aliens yet but we do know they are a lot more advanced than we are; they got here in the first place after all. We are like an ant colony scurrying around their feet. If we behave nicely and be helpful to them, maybe they'll take a liking to us. If we start crawling all over something they want, they'll break out the Raid. We aren't choosing how to be neighbours, we are choosing between being considered useful local wildlife and being considered vermin. I hope it's not below the dignity of the government of this country to consider that perhaps we are outclassed.

Dr. Layton Dreer
Transhuman Institute for Artificial Intelligence
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Re: RAR. Aliens? have been detected. You must advise POTUS.

Post by TimothyC »

Mr. President,
I recommend an immediate increase in ASAT capable platform procurement including the SM-3 missile along with allowing further export to Germany, Spain, and South Korea. I also recommend that we accelerate THAAD, GBI and AL-1 production and development.

Tango Charlie,
DARPA
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Re: RAR. Aliens? have been detected. You must advise POTUS.

Post by Uncluttered »

TimothyC wrote:Mr. President,
I recommend an immediate increase in ASAT capable platform procurement including the SM-3 missile along with allowing further export to Germany, Spain, and South Korea. I also recommend that we accelerate THAAD, GBI and AL-1 production and development.

Tango Charlie,
DARPA
I'm sorry Director, I understood some of that, but you just gave me a bunch of other acronyms I don't understand.
I came from Harvard with a degree in political science, which many of you understand, is not a real science.
I'm a personal assistant.
I am just a civilian politico, serving at the pleasure of the President.
The most high tech thing in my office is a 2 year old Blackberry!

Would you expand and expound on all this please.
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Re: RAR. Aliens? have been detected. You must advise POTUS.

Post by bz249 »

open_sketchbook wrote:With respect to your areas of expertise, you folks have got this all wrong. We're not talking human politics anymore. We shouldn't be speaking in terms of posturing, trade or bargining chips. This game is a hell of a lot bigger.

Letting them know we have what they want not much of a bargining chip. They have a much better one; give us what we want, or we hit your planet with a big rock. We don't really have an answer to that. We don't just threaten to nuke a country when we want what they have because they might retaliate and because we consider it morally wrong. Well, we can't realistically hope to harm the aliens at the moment and there is a good chance that "ethical" might not even cross their mind, so we are basically at their mercy. "Not looking weak" is meaningless because if they really want something we are going to have to be pushovers or they cheerfully point their engines at us and carve our planet up like thanksgiving turkey.

We can't deal with them as equals, because frankly, we aren't. We don't know much about these aliens yet but we do know they are a lot more advanced than we are; they got here in the first place after all. We are like an ant colony scurrying around their feet. If we behave nicely and be helpful to them, maybe they'll take a liking to us. If we start crawling all over something they want, they'll break out the Raid. We aren't choosing how to be neighbours, we are choosing between being considered useful local wildlife and being considered vermin. I hope it's not below the dignity of the government of this country to consider that perhaps we are outclassed.

Dr. Layton Dreer
Transhuman Institute for Artificial Intelligence
Mr Dreer,

If I understand correctly we should think about ourselves as a bunch of cockroaches? This is a really disturbing thought, though in principle I agree, since we really unable to anything against an object at 550 A.U. (simply establishing the actual location is impossible... not counting the fact, that if they were able to come here than the ship is most probably designed to survive anything but a direct nuclear explosion, and there is a not so slight chance that even that would be not enough). However still, knowing the fact is not the same as believing it, I do not really know whether humanity is capable of that feat.

I still hope that the aliens are not really interested in exterminating us, neutralizing maybe. So I propose the construction of a modern day Noah's Ark to survive the worst survivable.

bz

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Re: RAR. Aliens? have been detected. You must advise POTUS.

Post by bz249 »

Anyway, apart from praying there is something we can do. Not much, but at least it gets some of us occupied. The Cassini-Phoenix probe is still functioning with all the onboard instruments. I have to say that our best materials testing techniques requires a sample from the alien probe, but there is something we can try.
Of course there are some remote sensing options, like analysing the exhaust gases and doing reflectivity measurements both in the visible and microwave spectrum. But a fellow colleague at Sandia National Laboratory had a very interesting idea. I have to say, I am no expert in plasma-astrophysics and I completely forget everything I ever learn about SIMS and SNMS techniques. But as I know those mass spectrometers are present onboard the C-P probe.

So here is the idea: those measurement methods requires an ion beam or a plasma field to sputter atoms from a metal or any other material. Of course we can not do it, and even if we could, firing an ion beam to an unknown probe something rated unfriendly at best. However the Saturn is already there. Its magnetosphere is a plasma field, not a really effective one, but still the excited ions in the Saturn's magnetosphere constantly bombarding the SDA-1 probe. If it is made of conventional materials that should create a sputtering process with a small, but not negligible rate. Up to a few billions of atoms per square meters per second, maybe more. Thus the alien probe would have a kind of atmosphere around it which would contain traces of its material to rather large distances.

First analyzis of the reflectivity suggest that it is made of some kind of shiny material, probably metal, the good news is that metal atoms are extremely rare in the normal space (maybe not in the proximity of the C-P probe, since it already contaminated its surroundings, fortunately it does not have the whole periodic table in itself. So if the C-P flies close enough to the SDA-1, we might sample its atmosphere, and get a guess what it is made of.

bz

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Re: RAR. Aliens? have been detected. You must advise POTUS.

Post by FaxModem1 »

Mr Dreer,

If I understand correctly we should think about ourselves as a bunch of cockroaches? This is a really disturbing thought, though in principle I agree, since we really unable to anything against an object at 550 A.U. (simply establishing the actual location is impossible... not counting the fact, that if they were able to come here than the ship is most probably designed to survive anything but a direct nuclear explosion, and there is a not so slight chance that even that would be not enough). However still, knowing the fact is not the same as believing it, I do not really know whether humanity is capable of that feat.

I still hope that the aliens are not really interested in exterminating us, neutralizing maybe. So I propose the construction of a modern day Noah's Ark to survive the worst survivable.

bz

Vice Chairman, Independent Material Scientist Trade Union
It appears the Vice Chairman agrees with me Mr. President.

We have a can of worms Mr. President. The situation is too big for us to handle by ourselves. But if we tell the rest of the world's governments, we're going to have a lot more arguments just like the one we had in this room. On the other hand, Mr. President, you don't have a choice, we've had one astronomer discover it, it'll be days at most until another one does.

On another front, is the probe replicating itself and there are two probes that were both the same size as the previous one? If that's the case, we're dealing with something similar to a Von Neumann.

If not, and it divided its size when it split into two, it might be a more manageable thing to deal with. Can we confirm which it did?
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Re: RAR. Aliens? have been detected. You must advise POTUS.

Post by Uncluttered »

FaxModem1 wrote: It appears the Vice Chairman agrees with me Mr. President.

We have a can of worms Mr. President. The situation is too big for us to handle by ourselves. But if we tell the rest of the world's governments, we're going to have a lot more arguments just like the one we had in this room. On the other hand, Mr. President, you don't have a choice, we've had one astronomer discover it, it'll be days at most until another one does.

On another front, is the probe replicating itself and there are two probes that were both the same size as the previous one? If that's the case, we're dealing with something similar to a Von Neumann.

If not, and it divided its size when it split into two, it might be a more manageable thing to deal with. Can we confirm which it did?
The President has read the transcripts from this forum.

I've been directed to tell you all;
We will not shy away in fear.
Until we have new evidence proving otherwise, our problem is going to be our own collective fear.
We will be making contingency plans, but we we will not be running for the hills.

Based on this, the president would like DARPA, NASA and select civilian defense contractors to start brainstorming ways to, seek out, and destroy the aliens and if possible defend against any alien attacks.

-OnionBreath
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