Amazon book censorship Round 2

[General Zod]

http://arstechnica.com/media/news/2010/ ... iction.ars

Amazon may be in the process of stirring up some more trouble for itself thanks to reports that the company is deleting certain kinds of erotica from both the online store and users' devices. The erotica in question is controversial: it talks about certain acts of incest. Judging from Amazon's most recent bouts with book "censorship," users who have already paid for the deleted content are likely to get fired up.

Self-published author Selena Kitt was first notified that the print version of one of her fiction books violated Amazon's content guidelines last week, followed by the unceremonious removal of two more offerings from the Kindle store. After noticing that the three books that Amazon singled out were all "erotic incest fantasy fiction," she found at least three other authors whose incest-themed erotica had been removed from Amazon, followed by a Kindle support thread full of even more names.

"I want to be clear that while the subject of incest may not appeal to some, there is no underage contact in any of my work, and I make that either explicitly clear in all my stories or I state it up front in the book's disclaimer," Kitt wrote in a blog post. "I don't condone or support actual incest, just as someone who writes mysteries about serial killers wouldn't condone killing."

On top of the book removal from Amazon's store, Kitt's readers reportedly found that her books had disappeared from their Kindles as well. "When one reader called to get a refund for the book she no longer had access to, she was chastised by the Amazon customer service representative about the 'severity' of the book she’d chosen to purchase," Kitt wrote.

If true, then Amazon has some explaining to do. When the company "went Big Brother" and deleted unauthorized copies of 1984 from readers' Kindles, the company was slapped with a lawsuit for removing content that people not only paid for, but also made notes and highlights in. Amazon eventually settled the lawsuit late last year, and in the settlement, Amazon's attorneys agreed to legally binding terms that described its content deletion policy. When it came to books, Amazon said that deletions would only occur under a limited number of circumstances: failed credit card transactions, judicial orders, malware, or the permission of the user.

Fictional incest activities between two fictional adults doesn't appear to fall into any of those categories, but that may be neither here nor there, since Amazon's author guidelines restrict unspecified kinds of "offensive" content. This came to a head last month, when a furor rose among Internet users over Amazon's sale of The Pedophile's Guide to Love and Pleasure. Amazon eventually caved to public pressure and removed the book, despite the company's insistence that it tries to resist censorship whenever possible.

"Amazon believes it is censorship not to sell certain books simply because we or others believe their message is objectionable," the company said in a statement at the time. "Amazon does not support or promote hatred or criminal acts, however, we do support the right of every individual to make their own purchasing decisions."

Sex educator and author Violet Blue pointed out in an e-mail to Ars that Amazon's decisions here only continue to highlight the downsides to e-book DRM compared to physical books. "[Physical books] can't be taken back by the seller once you buy them, because the seller does not approve of the content," Blue said.

"I think what bothers me the most [with this situation] is the privacy issue for readers—this is actually HUGE. Especially with the egregious irresponsibility in their customer service representative department. Amazon is monitoring, watching and deciding for you what is sexually appropriate for you—their customers," she added.

Kitt has one more bone to pick with Amazon over its latest decision: Amazon's own TV ad shows a woman reading a Kindle book that details a sexual relationship between a 19-year-old and his stepmother, "which, in some states, is legally incest." Whether Amazon thinks the book in the ad is equally inappropriate will remain unclear for now, though, as Amazon did not respond to our requests for comment on this story.

What makes this interesting aside from the fact that Amazon is pulling books without warning again, is the sheer amount of historical instances of incest that occurred in real life figures and books featuring such, and precisely where Amazon draws the line here. Just when I was seriously considering buying a Kindle, Amazon makes me rethink it because frankly I'm not comfortable with the thought that they can yank a book I've purchased without any recourse. Oh well.

[Alyeska]

Thanks to the "Think of the Children" crowd, this one won't see quite so much fan fare as the last time.

[Phantasee]

The book about the 19 year old having sex with his stepmother that is in the commercial, what book is that?

[Stravo]

Amazon's bullshit aside, this does raise a very interesting question about the move towards electronic format away from paper in terms of documents and books. It's almost impossible for a government or entity to reach out into every book out there, in people's libraries, homes, basements, etc and change or remove content.

It's far simpler to reach out and change electronic content. For example if a hundred years from now some mega corp or government felt that content from a classic was objectionable they could remove that content from electronic repositories and ereaders and many wouldn't know the difference. Anything electronic can be altered and changed if you have access to it and that makes the idea of a paperless world a little scary if one considers the ramifications in terms of control of information and content.

I will now remove my tinfoil hat.

[Siege]

The book about the 19 year old having sex with his stepmother that is in the commercial, what book is that?

Bit of a Google tells me it's Where the God of Love Hangs Out, by Amy Bloom.

More on-topic, stories like these certainly don't do much to change my preference for books in the old school dead tree format.

[Zixinus]

And this is why it rang alarm bells first time around: if they are willing to do it once, they'll do it again. It shown that they are willing to overstep professionalism in favor of their own ideals.

This deleting business wouldn't be that bad if Amazon became more clear on what is banned from them and they review the book's worthiness of a ban before they make a sale. Or at least make a refund and an apology to the costumers (and perhaps the publishers). I could live with a bookstore with a slightly fundamentalist bent if they were at least honest.

But no, they're trying to ninja it and act angry when they're called out on it and meanwhile tell how they're all for freedom of buying what you want.

If I could get English books from another market than Amazon UK, I would. If they are willing to do this, they'll be willing to do more. In fact, I wouldn't be surprised they have already done and were merely not caught. I hope they get slapped on the ass with a rusty hammer for this one (or rather the legal equivalent).

[Jaevric]

Well, I won't be buying a Kindle now. Thanks, Amazon, for simplifying my e-reader purchase decisions immensely!

I don't have any interest in reading incest-themed erotica, but I've got even less interest in giving money to a company that feels like it can take away a product I've legitimately paid for because it offends some (other) jackass. Frankly, I find stupidity and dishonesty offensive, but I don't think Amazon will pull Bush or Palin's books from people's Kindles any time soon.

If Amazon wants to come out and say, "We won't sell products that contain these themes," that's their right as a company. However, the company needs to come out and clearly state their guidelines, then not release the products in the first place rather than make the money off of the product then backpeddle frantically when someone complains.

[Alyeska]

Just to toss ideas out. You can buy Kindle books and then decrypt them. Decrypted books are untouchable by Amazon and can be backed up as often as wanted.

[Stark]

Bit of a Google tells me it's Where the God of Love Hangs Out, by Amy Bloom.

More on-topic, stories like these certainly don't do much to change my preference for books in the old school dead tree format.

The false dilemna between 'huge paper books of wastefulness' and 'controlled by jew bankers ebooks' is fucking ridiculous. Amazon can only control media obtained through their store and held in their format (linked to your account) - if you put your smut or hate literature or POLITICALLY SENSITIVE books on in any other format, Amazon can't do anything. All they're doing with these acts is reducing the value of their own store.

[Drone]

'controlled by jew bankers ebooks'

What the fuck?

[Stark]

New to the paranoid nutbar scene, are you? The 'jew bankers' control the entire world through their manipulation of the banking system. Didn't you know?

[Drone]

What exactly does that have to do with the topic at hand?

[Talhe]

What exactly does that have to do with the topic at hand?

Humor? I'm Jewish and I chuckled at it.

New to the paranoid nutbar scene, are you? The 'jew bankers' control the entire world through their manipulation of the banking system. Didn't you know?

You forgot the Masons. Unless... you're one of them, and trying to deflect suspicion!

On a related note, I'm wondering what else they'll be taking off if they continue to do this. Although I can't really blame anyone for wanting to pull something like 'The Pedophile's Guide to Love and Pleasure' from the shelves.

[Stark]

Its an extension of something other online stores have realised - if you provide in a 'live' sense content, its not like you're printing it and selling it. You're much closer to 'providing' it to each and every consumer, so you're more liable in general. That's why online stores are becoming all about content screening, age-locks, tight 'standards', etc.

[Siege]

The false dilemna between 'huge paper books of wastefulness' and 'controlled by jew bankers ebooks' is fucking ridiculous.

Well, lucky for me then I don't recall posing any such dilemma.

[Stark]

Next time you'll read the article instead of being smug about Luddite attitudes, I guess. This is an online store issue and in no may reflects on the utility of ebooks.

[Siege]

First you were rambling about some supposed dilemma, now it's about Luddite attitudes and 'utility'... None of which I said anything about. So yeah: if you have a point, I'm not seeing it. But I'll be sure to check in later to see you rave some more about preferences you don't like!

[Stark]

Yeah sorry for assuming your preferences were based on fact or events rather than you just being ignorant and smug. Amusingly I probably like actual books more than you in a dollar value sense, but I can read and understand articles.

Can anyone think of a similar 'live' service where this level of control is NOT exercised? Is this just happening because amazon had unclear standards for inclusion when they started and now they need to clear out the grey-area content? You'd expect that they'd be vetting new content much more stringently to avoid this in future.

[Siege]

When you were assuming my preference was based on fact or events, was that when you wrote something about Jew bankers and false dilemmas? Or was this when you came out with the smug Luddite thing? I'm still not seeing a point, so I guess you'll have to troll a little harder!

[Bakustra]

Yeah sorry for assuming your preferences were based on fact or events rather than you just being ignorant and smug. Amusingly I probably like actual books more than you in a dollar value sense, but I can read and understand articles.

Can anyone think of a similar 'live' service where this level of control is NOT exercised? Is this just happening because amazon had unclear standards for inclusion when they started and now they need to clear out the grey-area content? You'd expect that they'd be vetting new content much more stringently to avoid this in future.

My guess is that they simply didn't stop to think about the possibility of protest when they started up the Kindle. Given that they have been clearing books out a bit at a time, my guess is that they're only removing stuff as it gets complained about or if it seems likely to be controversial. They probably should vet content better if they're going to go down this path, but I don't know if they will or currently do.

[Stark]

When you were assuming my preference was based on fact or events, was that when you wrote something about Jew bankers and false dilemmas? Or was this when you came out with the smug Luddite thing? I'm still not seeing a point, so I guess you'll have to troll a little harder!

That's pretty funny coming from a guy who has contributed nothing beyond HO HO HO I LIKE BOOKS.

I'm not sure why after the backlash last time they didn't sit down and go over their content; the ruling even seriously limits their ability to fuck with the live content, but they find themselves having to do it anyway.

Its possible they noticed that despite the outcry they didn't seen any financial changes so they just don't care. I'd be curious to see if there are any numbers on how (if at all) this affects sales or how many people even hear about it.

[Alyeska]

Just as I thought. This is hardly registering with the media or top sites. The top 20 search results make absolutely no mention of the new Kindle book removal.

[Chaotic Neutral]

Is there going to be a lawsuit over this? Or are people just going to suck it up and move on?

[Molyneux]

Is there going to be a lawsuit over this? Or are people just going to suck it up and move on?

Well, I'm fairly certain I'll never get a Kindle now...so that's one sale lost.

[Stark]

Why not? How would this impact you? Is it simply pique? It's arguably the best ereader, and this doesn't impact you unless you choose to.