Texas Woman Jailed for Overdue Library Books

[Omega18]

For those who didn't check on the link to the original story, the woman in question definitely knew about the outstanding warrant and the need to appear in court.

"The entire story of this is that the female was in the Harris County Jail prior to this warrant was actually issued to her, so she was aware of the warrant," he said.

http://www2.wsav.com/news/2010/dec/02/o ... r-1159339/

Basically she knew about the warrant and had an opportunity to explain herself and the situation in court, and failed to take it and ended up facing the consequences of ignoring the court.

The reality is she had years to resolve this issue prior to her being arrested, apparently at least seven years in fact. Its not even clear she bothered to try to directly resolve things with the library prior to her arrest.

You agree that you are responsible for books being destroyed as part of checking out the books in the first place, and 7 years is allot of time to pay the cost off already even if the library was unwilling to forgive the fines given the situation.

Its understandable that at some point the library wants to make an example out of extreme violators, and unless she showed the evidence the books had been destroyed earlier, she basically fell into the category of those who flat out stole library materials by refusing to ever return them.

[General Zod]

The knowledge of the warrant is the only thing nobody's contesting.

[TheFeniX]

Libraries are usually pretty low on funding, especially in .... places, like Bay City. But still, their library is pretty nice and I couldn't see the lady who runs the place (I won't mention her name, if she even still works there) being very punitive about overdue books. But if you consider these books have been due since two years before I did my first install there, I'd expect some form of action. And most libraries I've been to have a maximum late fee per item anyway.

The agreement is pretty standard: you get to read books and access the Internet for free, if you don't get shit back in time, you pay a fee. Fire or not, there was a responsibility to return the property or pay for it. But even then, if you go in and actually talk to one of the librarians, they let people off the hook for shit all the time.

[dantheman40k]

Its a library book, who cares. My grandmother had a library book she checked out in 1936 when she was a teenager. Why the hell these idiots are harrasing her over a bunch of smegging books is beyond me. Although this is Texas, maybe they were bibles.

Also, whats with all these idiots siding with the library? You guys are acting like she murdered the Pope or something. Jesus.

[General Zod]

Its a library book, who cares. My grandmother had a library book she checked out in 1936 when she was a teenager. Why the hell these idiots are harrasing her over a bunch of smegging books is beyond me. Although this is Texas, maybe they were bibles.

Also, whats with all these idiots siding with the library? You guys are acting like she murdered the Pope or something. Jesus.

What's with retarded newbies who can't read?

[Phantasee]

Its a library book, who cares. My grandmother had a library book she checked out in 1936 when she was a teenager. Why the hell these idiots are harrasing her over a bunch of smegging books is beyond me. Although this is Texas, maybe they were bibles.

Also, whats with all these idiots siding with the library? You guys are acting like she murdered the Pope or something. Jesus.

What's with retarded newbies who can't read?

Sounds more like a troll to me.

[dantheman40k]

Its a library book, who cares. My grandmother had a library book she checked out in 1936 when she was a teenager. Why the hell these idiots are harrasing her over a bunch of smegging books is beyond me. Although this is Texas, maybe they were bibles.

Also, whats with all these idiots siding with the library? You guys are acting like she murdered the Pope or something. Jesus.

What's with retarded newbies who can't read?

Sounds more like a troll to me.

Yeah, I'm a troll for not agreeing with the majority. Kindly fuck off.

[Kamakazie Sith]

Its a library book, who cares. My grandmother had a library book she checked out in 1936 when she was a teenager. Why the hell these idiots are harrasing her over a bunch of smegging books is beyond me. Although this is Texas, maybe they were bibles.

Also, whats with all these idiots siding with the library? You guys are acting like she murdered the Pope or something. Jesus.

Obviously, the Library cares. The property owner gets to decide if they care or not. Not you. Not the person responsible for the loss of the property. Not people on a forum. Only the owner. In this case, the Library did care and they don't need to justify why. She checked them out and became responsible for them and that responsibility includes their replacement if lost, damaged, or destroyed.

[PeZook]

Zero sympathy. Going to court is your chance to explain yourself, and on something like this I think a judge would have listened to her evidence. Don’t show up, you’re in automatic contempt of court. I can have no sympathy when I just know of too many (admittedly this is not many) other idiots in real life who thought they could dodge court on minor shit because they simply did not care, and ended up with arrest warrants. You don’t get you decide if you go or not, and this is a fundamental basis of the American legal system.

I think it's the fundamental basis of any legal system with even a pretense of working. It's already bad enough when people can delay hearings and appearances and game the system to weasel out of charges altogether, if you let people just ignore summons with no reason whatsoever, the justice system will grind to a halt.

And people would do well to remember that it's not the big high-profile cases that are actually the most important ones: it doesn't matter if a trial for murder goes on for two years. The most important function of a court system is to decide the small, nagging shit like fraud or theft etc, since people need to know they can reliably get justice in these cases. You let that slide, and basic interactions that make up society start tumbling towards being unmanageable.

[General Zod]

Yeah, I'm a troll for not agreeing with the majority. Kindly fuck off.

You could always try addressing specific points instead of cowardly guttersniping with worthless blanket declarations.

[Sea Skimmer]

I think it's the fundamental basis of any legal system with even a pretense of working. It's already bad enough when people can delay hearings and appearances and game the system to weasel out of charges altogether, if you let people just ignore summons with no reason whatsoever, the justice system will grind to a halt.

Well, legal systems based on just shooting suspects who ran away from you do work; just not very well. That's what I was thinking of really when I said American, the fact that a lot of places won't even get you in front of a judge, let alone a fair hearing before you are considered guilty and punished. Anywhere in the west that's not really an issue.

[General Zod]

I think it's the fundamental basis of any legal system with even a pretense of working. It's already bad enough when people can delay hearings and appearances and game the system to weasel out of charges altogether, if you let people just ignore summons with no reason whatsoever, the justice system will grind to a halt.

Well, legal systems based on just shooting suspects do work; just not very well. That's what I was thinking of really when I said America, the fact that a lot of places won't even get you in front of a judge, let alone a fair hearing before you are considered guilty and punished. Anywhere in the west that's not really an issue.

Unless you're suspected of terrorism anyway, but that's a separate matter.

[Norade]

My only question is how much did the court time cost for what the library is claiming was $200 of books? I know the court needs to do this stuff, but shouldn't some monetary stuff just not be worth everybody's time? I mean, if it took 2 librarians 2 hours at $10/hour the library is hardly making back enough to be worth it, add in the time and cost to mail summons and any legal fees and they might be $100 better off. They should send a collection agency after them and be done with it.

[General Zod]

My only question is how much did the court time cost for what the library is claiming was $200 of books? I know the court needs to do this stuff, but shouldn't some monetary stuff just not be worth everybody's time? I mean, if it took 2 librarians 2 hours at $10/hour the library is hardly making back enough to be worth it, add in the time and cost to mail summons and any legal fees and they might be $100 better off. They should send a collection agency after them and be done with it.

By that logic shoplifters should never be prosecuted.

[Norade]

My only question is how much did the court time cost for what the library is claiming was $200 of books? I know the court needs to do this stuff, but shouldn't some monetary stuff just not be worth everybody's time? I mean, if it took 2 librarians 2 hours at $10/hour the library is hardly making back enough to be worth it, add in the time and cost to mail summons and any legal fees and they might be $100 better off. They should send a collection agency after them and be done with it.

By that logic shoplifters should never be prosecuted.

How many actually are? Most places just toss them out or have the police take them away and decline charges because it isn't worth the time.

[General Zod]

My only question is how much did the court time cost for what the library is claiming was $200 of books? I know the court needs to do this stuff, but shouldn't some monetary stuff just not be worth everybody's time? I mean, if it took 2 librarians 2 hours at $10/hour the library is hardly making back enough to be worth it, add in the time and cost to mail summons and any legal fees and they might be $100 better off. They should send a collection agency after them and be done with it.

By that logic shoplifters should never be prosecuted.

How many actually are? Most places just toss them out or have the police take them away and decline charges because it isn't worth the time.

Why should that be up to anyone but the people pressing the charges? As far as the library's concerned it's worth their time.

[Phantasee]

Have you worked in retail, Norade? Most places press charges because they want to make an example of each and every single shoplifter. They don't have to worry about the cost since the state is the one prosecuting. They hand over the security camera footage, maybe get some sworn statements from the manager or the cashier, good to go.

[Norade]

Have you worked in retail, Norade? Most places press charges because they want to make an example of each and every single shoplifter. They don't have to worry about the cost since the state is the one prosecuting. They hand over the security camera footage, maybe get some sworn statements from the manager or the cashier, good to go.

I have, when I was at Safeway they had security on hand and most often they just escorted people out. They only held people/called police that got violent or who were obviously on drugs. They might have pressed charges more often than that, but it seems like in the case of books where it isn't really a theft that a collections agency is a better bet that going to the court.

Why should that be up to anyone but the people pressing the charges? As far as the library's concerned it's worth their time.

Is it worth the tax payers time though? How much does the judge earn for sitting on this case, what about holding the woman?

[General Zod]

Is it worth the tax payers time though? How much does the judge earn for sitting on this case, what about holding the woman?

Are you suggesting the only crimes that should be prosecuted are the ones involving large amounts of money? We're talking about a Class C misdemeanor for fuck's sake. If she hadn't ignored the original summons she wouldn't have gotten jail time at all and would have likely just been given a fine.

[Drone]

Have you worked in retail, Norade? Most places press charges because they want to make an example of each and every single shoplifter. They don't have to worry about the cost since the state is the one prosecuting. They hand over the security camera footage, maybe get some sworn statements from the manager or the cashier, good to go.

I have, when I was at Safeway they had security on hand and most often they just escorted people out. They only held people/called police that got violent or who were obviously on drugs. They might have pressed charges more often than that, but it seems like in the case of books where it isn't really a theft that a collections agency is a better bet that going to the court.

My experience in working security was exactly the opposite. My bosses spent most of their time in court as a witness against the shoplifters my colleagues and I would catch. It is absolutely worth it, because if you let people slide, word gets around that you're an easy target, and make no mistake, criminals do talk. That tends to result in increased losses.

[Norade]

Have you worked in retail, Norade? Most places press charges because they want to make an example of each and every single shoplifter. They don't have to worry about the cost since the state is the one prosecuting. They hand over the security camera footage, maybe get some sworn statements from the manager or the cashier, good to go.

I have, when I was at Safeway they had security on hand and most often they just escorted people out. They only held people/called police that got violent or who were obviously on drugs. They might have pressed charges more often than that, but it seems like in the case of books where it isn't really a theft that a collections agency is a better bet that going to the court.

My experience in working security was exactly the opposite. My bosses spent most of their time in court as a witness against the shoplifters my colleagues and I would catch. It is absolutely worth it, because if you let people slide, word gets around that you're an easy target, and make no mistake, criminals do talk. That tends to result in increased losses.

Yeah, I was in the deli not security, so like I said they might have pressed charges more often than I knew about.

Is it worth the tax payers time though? How much does the judge earn for sitting on this case, what about holding the woman?

Are you suggesting the only crimes that should be prosecuted are the ones involving large amounts of money? We're talking about a Class C misdemeanor for fuck's sake. If she hadn't ignored the original summons she wouldn't have gotten jail time at all and would have likely just been given a fine.

I'm purely playing devil's advocate here at this stage. She was obviously in the wrong, it's just sad that even when they get the money the city may have spent more to get it than it was ever worth.

[General Zod]

I'm purely playing devil's advocate here at this stage. She was obviously in the wrong, it's just sad that even when they get the money the city may have spent more to get it than it was ever worth.

I'm failing to see why this should be considered "sad" at all. It's not as if you can attach a monetary number to every conceivable crime.

[Norade]

I'm purely playing devil's advocate here at this stage. She was obviously in the wrong, it's just sad that even when they get the money the city may have spent more to get it than it was ever worth.

I'm failing to see why this should be considered "sad" at all. It's not as if you can attach a monetary number to every conceivable crime.

When the crime involves recovering money you damn well can.

[General Zod]

When the crime involves recovering money you damn well can.

Which brings me back to the point of "so what"? If I were to follow your logic to its natural conclusion any number of hideous crimes aren't worth prosecuting.

[bilateralrope]

I'm purely playing devil's advocate here at this stage. She was obviously in the wrong, it's just sad that even when they get the money the city may have spent more to get it than it was ever worth.

I'm failing to see why this should be considered "sad" at all. It's not as if you can attach a monetary number to every conceivable crime.

When the crime involves recovering money you damn well can.

How do you place a value on the crimes that don't happen because the potential criminal heard about the crime you did prosecute and decided not to commit one himself ?