Washington (CNN) -- The Senate will hold a final vote on "don't ask, don't tell" at 3 p.m. Saturday.
Earlier Saturday, the Senate voted 63-33 to proceed to a final vote to repeal the military's "don't ask, don't tell" policy which bans openly gay people from serving in the armed forces.
President Barack Obama called the advancing of the "don't ask, don't tell" repeal toward a final vote a "historic step toward ending the controversial policy."
"It is time to close this chapter in our history," Obama said.
Six Republicans crossed party lines to vote for the bill, which is supported by Democrats and Obama. A simple majority will pass the Senate bill to repeal "don't ask, don't tell."
Following the 3 p.m. vote, the Senate will consider an amendment from Sen. John McCain, R-Arizona, on START, a nuclear arms treaty with Russia.
Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid also announced that the Senate will be in session Sunday afternoon to continue the START debate.
Just before the "don't ask, don't tell" vote, a bill that would have offered a path to citizenship to some illegal immigrants who entered the United States as children failed a similar procedural vote.
Known formally as the Development, Relief and Education for Alien Minors Act, the DREAM Act fell five votes short of the 60 needed to be considered for final passage.
Obama said Saturday that the failure of the Senate to move the DREAM Act forward was "incredibly disappointing."
The House of Representatives voted Wednesday to repeal "don't ask, don't tell," 250-175. Passage of the legislation in the Senate would be a political victory for Obama and the Democrats.
Ex-cadet: 'Vulnerable and defenseless'
The history of 'don't ask, don't tell'
Lieberman demands law's repeal
RELATED TOPICS
* GLBT Issues
* U.S. Armed Forces
* U.S. Senate
* DREAM Act
* Immigration
Republican Sens. Susan Collins and Olympia Snowe of Maine, Mark Kirk of Illinois, Lisa Murkowski of Alaska, George Voinovich of Ohio, and Scott Brown of Massachusetts voted to advance the measure.
Sen. Joe Lieberman of Connecticut, who co-sponsored the legislation that would repeal the policy, said Friday that Republican senators supporting the bill had "shown courage."
Lieberman said that the bill's co-sponsors had worked closely with the Defense Department in crafting its language.
But Pentagon officials are warning gay and lesbian soldiers that the current law will temporarily remain in place if the bill passes as they review the legal technicalities of the repeal.
A guidance memo would be sent to military personnel informing them of the change, which would remain in effect for at least 60 days after it is signed into law, Pentagon spokesman Col. David Lapan said.
Conservative Republicans have argued that, among other things, a repeal would place an unreasonable burden on the military at a time when it is facing severe strains in Afghanistan and elsewhere.
The Senate is convening this weekend to finish up matters at hand before the lame-duck congressional session ends.
The DREAM Act would have offered legal standing to immigrants who entered the United States illegally as children under the age of 16 and have lived in the country for at least five years.
Other requirements included graduating from high school or obtaining a GED diploma and demonstrating "good moral character."
Even then, only a six-year conditional status would be awarded. Before moving to the next phase, the students would need to meet additional requirements -- attending college or serving in the military for at least two years, and passing criminal background checks.
So it looks like as of this afternoon, DADT will be, except for Obama sigining off on it, history. There's still a lot of shitty out in the world, but I think we can all rejoice in a little bit of good news.
About fucking time... too bad the Democrats lacked the spine to do this before the election. Maybe it would have motivated a few more voters to come out and vote for them.
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General Zod wrote:I'm not going to rejoice until it's actually repealed considering Republican behavior over the last few days.
Well, you'll only have to wait an hour and 45 minutes, according to my watch. I'm pretty sure nothing is going to happen-getting to 60 was the major hurdle, and getting over 50 doesn't require GOP help.
"May God stand between you and harm in all the empty places where you must walk." - Ancient Egyptian Blessing
Ivanova is always right.
I will listen to Ivanova.
I will not ignore Ivanova's recommendations. Ivanova is God.
AND, if this ever happens again, Ivanova will personally rip your lungs out! - Babylon 5 Mantra
That story appears to be from yesterday, so I don't know how much stock I'd put into it.
EDIT: what I meant is, it was a threat by a Republican who is going to vote no on both regardless, I'm sure, and who probably doesn't have a lot of leverage over the GOP senators who broke ranks over DADT.
Well, I guess the whole Obama administration isn't a total wash.
Turns out that a five way cross over between It's Always Sunny in Philadelphia, the Ali G Show, Fargo, Idiocracy and Veep is a lot less funny when you're actually living in it.
Of course, no thanks to Manchin (D-WV) who decided he'd take the day off with his family.
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Me: Nope, that's why I have you around to tell me.
Nitram: You -are- beautiful. Anyone tries to tell you otherwise kill them.
"A life is like a garden. Perfect moments can be had, but not preserved, except in memory. LLAP" -- Leonard Nimoy, last Tweet
Pelranius wrote:Well, I guess the whole Obama administration isn't a total wash.
It passed despite him not because of him. I'll give him all the credit he earned getting this passed two years into his administration in a lame duck congress after his party got it's ass handed to it during the election instead of doing this Day 1, Month 1 of his Presidency when he had 60 senators had he cared to seriously go after this.
No major credit goes to droopy dog himself Senator Lieberman who has been the mover and pusher on this bill not Obama. I can't stand Lieberman 90% of the time, but today I'll give him props as the one to wrangle the Republican votes and keep after this thing long after everyone else had given it up for dead. For drafting the bill last year and keep after it to keep it alive. And he was right. There was the votes for it, the votes to beat the filibuster and the votes to pass with a large margin.
"A cult is a religion with no political power." -Tom Wolfe Pardon me for sounding like a dick, but I'm playing the tiniest violin in the world right now-Dalton
Did this repeal actually remove the military code of justice regulations against sodomy, or did it just forbid "Don't Ask, Don't Tell."
If it did the latter but not the former, then while everyone's partying that gays are now allowed to serve in the military, as the laws are written the exact opposite is true: gays are not allowed in the military, and not only can they be discharged for being gay and outing themselves, but now the military can go on a witch-hunt to find them.
CaptainChewbacca wrote:Dude...
Way to overwork a metaphor Shadow. I feel really creeped out now.
I am an artist, metaphorical mind-fucks are my medium.
ShadowDragon8685 wrote:Did this repeal actually remove the military code of justice regulations against sodomy, or did it just forbid "Don't Ask, Don't Tell."
Don't ask Don't Tell was a law on top of military UCMJ. One which even if you changed UCMJ would still be in force and preventing any UCMJ changes from mattering.
As for the UCMJ itself, the defense department can change it as they feel it needs changing so again if Obama is not a totally useless sad sack he could have ordered it changed some time ago or will hopefully order it changed soon to remove anti-sodomy restrictions and the like to allow gays to serve openly.
(And maybe while he's at it he will finally change the Navy's age of consent up from 13 year old to 18 )
"A cult is a religion with no political power." -Tom Wolfe Pardon me for sounding like a dick, but I'm playing the tiniest violin in the world right now-Dalton
ShadowDragon8685 wrote:Did this repeal actually remove the military code of justice regulations against sodomy, or did it just forbid "Don't Ask, Don't Tell."
If it did the latter but not the former, then while everyone's partying that gays are now allowed to serve in the military, as the laws are written the exact opposite is true: gays are not allowed in the military, and not only can they be discharged for being gay and outing themselves, but now the military can go on a witch-hunt to find them.
Wrong. The sexual act of sodomy is illegal, this is not the same as being gay and openly telling people that they are.
Even under DADT, that rule has been their yet gays were never tossed out for sodomy, they were tossed out simply for being gay. Otherwise lesbians would have been able to serve openly and someone would go to trial demanding an investigation to see whether heterosexuals were engaging in anal sex
Mr Bean wrote:As for the UCMJ itself, the defense department can change it as they feel it needs changing so again if Obama is not a totally useless sad sack he could have ordered it changed some time ago or will hopefully order it changed soon to remove anti-sodomy restrictions and the like to allow gays to serve openly.
Are you sure? I heard that changing that also requires an Act of Congress. Which means it'll probably be an even harder fight than this.
"May God stand between you and harm in all the empty places where you must walk." - Ancient Egyptian Blessing
Ivanova is always right.
I will listen to Ivanova.
I will not ignore Ivanova's recommendations. Ivanova is God.
AND, if this ever happens again, Ivanova will personally rip your lungs out! - Babylon 5 Mantra
Lost Soal wrote:
Wrong. The sexual act of sodomy is illegal, this is not the same as being gay and openly telling people that they are.
Even under DADT, that rule has been their yet gays were never tossed out for sodomy, they were tossed out simply for being gay. Otherwise lesbians would have been able to serve openly and someone would go to trial demanding an investigation to see whether heterosexuals were engaging in anal sex
I believe you're mistaken. The sodomy rulings have been used rather explicitly to throw out someone because they were gay. Saying nobody was tossed out for sodomy is just semantic handwringing.
"It's you Americans. There's something about nipples you hate. If this were Germany, we'd be romping around naked on the stage here."
ShadowDragon8685 wrote:Did this repeal actually remove the military code of justice regulations against sodomy, or did it just forbid "Don't Ask, Don't Tell."
Don't ask Don't Tell was a law on top of military UCMJ. One which even if you changed UCMJ would still be in force and preventing any UCMJ changes from mattering.
As for the UCMJ itself, the defense department can change it as they feel it needs changing so again if Obama is not a totally useless sad sack he could have ordered it changed some time ago or will hopefully order it changed soon to remove anti-sodomy restrictions and the like to allow gays to serve openly.
(And maybe while he's at it he will finally change the Navy's age of consent up from 13 year old to 18 )
Dude! You're wrong! The UCMJ is part of Title 10 US Code. Only an act of congress (such as the one repealing DADT) can change it.
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This is the price of war,
We rise with noble intentions,
And we risk all that is pure..." - Angela & Jeff van Dyck, Forever (Rome: Total War)
"On and on, through the years,
The war continues on..." - Angela & Jeff van Dyck, We Are All One (Medieval 2: Total War)
"Courage is not the absence of fear, but rather the judgment that something else is more important than fear." - Ambrose Redmoon
"You either die a hero, or you live long enough to see yourself become the villain." - Harvey Dent, The Dark Knight
(b) Effective Date- The amendments made by subsection (f) shall take effect 60 days after the date on which the last of the following occurs:
(1) The Secretary of Defense has received the report required by the memorandum of the Secretary referred to in subsection (a).
(2) The President transmits to the congressional defense committees a written certification, signed by the President, the Secretary of Defense, and the Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, stating each of the following:
(A) That the President, the Secretary of Defense, and the Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff have considered the recommendations contained in the report and the report's proposed plan of action.
(B) That the Department of Defense has prepared the necessary policies and regulations to exercise the discretion provided by the amendments made by subsection (f).
(C) That the implementation of necessary policies and regulations pursuant to the discretion provided by the amendments made by subsection (f) is consistent with the standards of military readiness, military effectiveness, unit cohesion, and recruiting and retention of the Armed Forces.
(c) No Immediate Effect on Current Policy- Section 654 of title 10, United States Code, shall remain in effect until such time that all of the requirements and certifications required by subsection (b) are met. If these requirements and certifications are not met, section 654 of title 10, United States Code, shall remain in effect.
This isn't so bad. I imagine that whole DOD Review of which much was talked about deals in large part with this. And as Beo mentioned to me, it does mean that at least there will be a regulatory framework in place before it goes into effect, which is a good thing.
Incidently, the theory has been presented on here that repealling DADT could be a "back door" for legalizing gay marriage when one takes into account having to deal with survivor benefits, housing, and so on. Well...
(d) Benefits- Nothing in this section, or the amendments made by this section, shall be construed to require the furnishing of benefits in violation of section 7 of title 1, United States Code (relating to the definitions of `marriage' and `spouse' and referred to as the `Defense of Marriage Act').
So much for that theory.
"How can I wait unknowing?
This is the price of war,
We rise with noble intentions,
And we risk all that is pure..." - Angela & Jeff van Dyck, Forever (Rome: Total War)
"On and on, through the years,
The war continues on..." - Angela & Jeff van Dyck, We Are All One (Medieval 2: Total War)
"Courage is not the absence of fear, but rather the judgment that something else is more important than fear." - Ambrose Redmoon
"You either die a hero, or you live long enough to see yourself become the villain." - Harvey Dent, The Dark Knight
I'm sure sodomy will still be on the books, simply as a "Get 'Em" charge that they can stick on to charges that the Military actually cares about when a person has been a really bad boy. Sodomy, by my understanding, is very rarely exactly used to throw someone out completely on its own.
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You know, for someone who was thought to be a tea-party idiot who stole Ted Kennedy's seat, Scott Brown has turned out to be a pretty decent guy. I have no trouble seeing him as a right-wing democrat and he might end up there anyway considering that he is a GOP senator from a left-leaning state.
Whoever says "education does not matter" can try ignorance
------------
A decision must be made in the life of every nation at the very moment when the grasp of the enemy is at its throat. Then, it seems that the only way to survive is to use the means of the enemy, to rest survival upon what is expedient, to look the other way. Well, the answer to that is 'survival as what'? A country isn't a rock. It's not an extension of one's self. It's what it stands for. It's what it stands for when standing for something is the most difficult! - Chief Judge Haywood
------------ My LPs
Gil Hamilton wrote:I'm sure sodomy will still be on the books, simply as a "Get 'Em" charge that they can stick on to charges that the Military actually cares about when a person has been a really bad boy. Sodomy, by my understanding, is very rarely exactly used to throw someone out completely on its own.
It could be equivalent to a rape charge.
What I'm wondering is the logistics of people thrown out under DADT. Will they be allowed to reenlist? Will they be given benefits again? Or is everything grandfathered in?
(d) Benefits- Nothing in this section, or the amendments made by this section, shall be construed to require the furnishing of benefits in violation of section 7 of title 1, United States Code (relating to the definitions of `marriage' and `spouse' and referred to as the `Defense of Marriage Act').
"Well gays, now you can serve openly in the military. Still, we are not by any stretch of the imagination giving you all of the rights that straight soldiers have. Congratulations. You get to die for the rights of others. Rights you, yourself, do not enjoy."
US Government to Homosexuals---> Mega-Fisting-Action!
GALE Force Biological Agent/
BOTM/Great Dolphin Conspiracy/ Entomology and Evolutionary Biology Subdirector:SD.net Dept. of Biological Sciences
There is Grandeur in the View of Life; it fills me with a Deep Wonder, and Intense Cynicism.
Obviously that sucks donkey balls Alyrium. But I knew, and so did anyone who was at all pragmatic about the situation, that homosexuals weren't going to get everything they deserve, Republicans won't let that happen. Which is unarguably bullshit, but it's better to push through what we can, when we can. However, with America's culture of idolizing military figures, how long do you really think it's going to be now that they serve openly until that too is changed? As far as I can see DADT is the lynchpin to destroying all conservative credibility once and for all in regards to holding back LGBT rights, since their voter base is not going to like seeing Real American Patriots oppressed, which inevitably leads them to question, 'what makes a gay American serviceman different from a gay American'.
(d) Benefits- Nothing in this section, or the amendments made by this section, shall be construed to require the furnishing of benefits in violation of section 7 of title 1, United States Code (relating to the definitions of `marriage' and `spouse' and referred to as the `Defense of Marriage Act').
"Well gays, now you can serve openly in the military. Still, we are not by any stretch of the imagination giving you all of the rights that straight soldiers have. Congratulations. You get to die for the rights of others. Rights you, yourself, do not enjoy."
US Government to Homosexuals---> Mega-Fisting-Action!
It's a step towards full equality. It might seem frustrating to know that we can now legally defend a country openly that doesn't treat us as equals but this is an important milestone towards that eventual goal. One day, we will be equal citizens and it will be because of a culmination of social and policy changes such as this one. Take heart that equality in the USA is one big step closer.
SancheztheWhaler wrote:About fucking time... too bad the Democrats lacked the spine to do this before the election. Maybe it would have motivated a few more voters to come out and vote for them.
Or it could have motivated a few more voters to come out and vote against them, as this issue is quite divisive among Democrats.
Gil Hamilton wrote:I'm sure sodomy will still be on the books, simply as a "Get 'Em" charge that they can stick on to charges that the Military actually cares about when a person has been a really bad boy. Sodomy, by my understanding, is very rarely exactly used to throw someone out completely on its own.
How, exactly, does the UCMJ define “sodomy”? Is it anal sex? Does it include oral sex? Or any homosexual sex? Or what? I ask because how it is defined has implications for enforcement. If it's strictly defined as anal sex then two gay servicemen can just say “we had oral sex”. If it's some other definition that might be less easy to dodge.
A life is like a garden. Perfect moments can be had, but not preserved, except in memory.Leonard Nimoy.
Now I did a job. I got nothing but trouble since I did it, not to mention more than a few unkind words as regard to my character so let me make this abundantly clear. I do the job. And then I get paid.- Malcolm Reynolds, Captain of Serenity, which sums up my feelings regarding the lawsuit discussed here.
If a free society cannot help the many who are poor, it cannot save the few who are rich. - John F. Kennedy
SancheztheWhaler wrote:About fucking time... too bad the Democrats lacked the spine to do this before the election. Maybe it would have motivated a few more voters to come out and vote for them.
Or it could have motivated a few more voters to come out and vote against them, as this issue is quite divisive among Democrats.
Gil Hamilton wrote:I'm sure sodomy will still be on the books, simply as a "Get 'Em" charge that they can stick on to charges that the Military actually cares about when a person has been a really bad boy. Sodomy, by my understanding, is very rarely exactly used to throw someone out completely on its own.
How, exactly, does the UCMJ define “sodomy”? Is it anal sex? Does it include oral sex? Or any homosexual sex? Or what? I ask because how it is defined has implications for enforcement. If it's strictly defined as anal sex then two gay servicemen can just say “we had oral sex”. If it's some other definition that might be less easy to dodge.
925. ART. 125. SODOMY
(a) Any person subject to this chapter who engages in unnatural carnal copulation with another person of the same or opposite sex or with an animal is guilty of sodomy. Penetration , however slight, is sufficient to complete the offense.
(b) Any person found guilty of sodomy shall be punished as a court-martial may direct.
"It's you Americans. There's something about nipples you hate. If this were Germany, we'd be romping around naked on the stage here."
)
