Are we a gullible species?

[ray245]

Whenever I read and get to know the stupid shit that people believe in, it just makes me feel that humanity as a whole is a very gullible species. Many people are more than willingly to take people's word for granted, believing that the tall tales told by strangers to be true, or believing that the information given out by a salesperson is good enough to base a decision on.

Is there any particular reason we as a species are so willingly to take a leap of faith and believe in the words of others? Why aren't we more sceptical of things as a species?

[PeZook]

Try living one day where you double-check every single piece of information you are given by anyone you meet.

That's why. Well, that and the fact we're social animals, naturally predisposed towards submitting to authority, actual or perceived. Also, personal assurances > faceless information in scientific journals.

Incidentally it's also the reason why law enforcement and the judiciary are so important as the basis of any society larger than a hundred people: so that we can, in fact, take many information for granted, like "There's a good chance this candy bar does not, in fact, contain ground babies or arsenic."

[Paula42]

Whenever I read and get to know the stupid shit that people believe in, it just makes me feel that humanity as a whole is a very gullible species. Many people are more than willingly to take people's word for granted, believing that the tall tales told by strangers to be true, or believing that the information given out by a salesperson is good enough to base a decision on.

Is there any particular reason we as a species are so willingly to take a leap of faith and believe in the words of others? Why aren't we more sceptical of things as a species?

I would not say that as a species we are gullable as after all the sales people you refer too are also humans.

It mostly boils down to people taking advantage of others emotions be it greed or fear or anger and using that to manipulate them and rip them off or just to gain a honest sale. A sales person can use multiple methods that depend on the personality type of the individual he/she is selling too, they may use fear of loss in regards to convincing the customer into buying the item right away by saying that very few remain or couple that fear of loss with greed by saying the promotion that makes it so cheap at the particular time is about to end.

A lot of sales people even go on psychology courses to more understand the way people react to certain things and most large direct sales companies have week long or even longer courses that teach their potential sales agents a set of "steps" (upto 15 or more depending on the product) for doing a sales pitch that not only present the product but also cover most of the objections and conditions people come up with to not buy the item they are selling right away.

Most of the time it comes down to convincing the person that he or she is getting a good or great deal and leaving them feeling good about the purchase.

[ray245]

Try living one day where you double-check every single piece of information you are given by anyone you meet.

That's why. Well, that and the fact we're social animals, naturally predisposed towards submitting to authority, actual or perceived. Also, personal assurances > faceless information in scientific journals.

Incidentally it's also the reason why law enforcement and the judiciary are so important as the basis of any society larger than a hundred people: so that we can, in fact, take many information for granted, like "There's a good chance this candy bar does not, in fact, contain ground babies or arsenic."

But what about the more far-fetched theories that people believed in? It's one thing to believe that the information provided by the regulation authorities to be accurate, and another thing altogether to believe that a person was the son of a invisible being in the sky. Why does it seems that we as a whole lack the ability to be sceptical of those unproven tall tales a lot more easier than we should?

I would not say that as a species we are gullable as after all the sales people you refer too are also humans.

It mostly boils down to people taking advantage of others emotions be it greed or fear or anger and using that to manipulate them and rip them off or just to gain a honest sale. A sales person can use multiple methods that depend on the personality type of the individual he/she is selling too, they may use fear of loss in regards to convincing the customer into buying the item right away by saying that very few remain or couple that fear of loss with greed by saying the promotion that makes it so cheap at the particular time is about to end.

A lot of sales people even go on psychology courses to more understand the way people react to certain things and most large direct sales companies have week long or even longer courses that teach their potential sales agents a set of "steps" (upto 15 or more depending on the product) for doing a sales pitch that not only present the product but also cover most of the objections and conditions people come up with to not buy the item they are selling right away.

Most of the time it comes down to convincing the person that he or she is getting a good or great deal and leaving them feeling good about the purchase.

Shouldn't we as a whole knew be more equipped to deal with people we suspected to be taking advantage of our emotions? Especially when we are potentially to spend a huge amount of our cash on a certain item?

[PeZook]

But what about the more far-fetched theories that people believed in? It's one thing to believe that the information provided by the regulation authorities to be accurate, and another thing altogether to believe that a person was the son of a invisible being in the sky. Why does it seems that we as a whole lack the ability to be sceptical of those unproven tall tales a lot more easier than we should?

Uh...when we're talking religion, there's the obvious answer of "The guy believing that had been indoctrinated into the belief since he could think", so I don't think it shows some exceptional gullibility, just social conditioning. Which is a powerful force, but it seems to be outside the scope of this thread

[ray245]

But what about the more far-fetched theories that people believed in? It's one thing to believe that the information provided by the regulation authorities to be accurate, and another thing altogether to believe that a person was the son of a invisible being in the sky. Why does it seems that we as a whole lack the ability to be sceptical of those unproven tall tales a lot more easier than we should?

Uh...when we're talking religion, there's the obvious answer of "The guy believing that had been indoctrinated into the belief since he could think", so I don't think it shows some exceptional gullibility, just social conditioning. Which is a powerful force, but it seems to be outside the scope of this thread

Yeah, but there was a time before people was indoctrinated into Christianity, as well as people who converted into religion even without indoctrination. One only have to take a look at what's happening in China, where the number of Christians converts is rapidly increasing to see how people are willingly to believe in a new faith even if common sense tells us otherwise.

[Paula42]

Shouldn't we as a whole knew be more equipped to deal with people we suspected to be taking advantage of our emotions? Especially when we are potentially to spend a huge amount of our cash on a certain item?

That sort of thing comes with age and or experiance a fully trained sales agent will find a way to sell to 2 out of 3 people at least and likely better if he/she is smart.

Although as a former direct sales agent myself i always research the company and product i was going to sell so when i was in front of a prospective customer i truely believed in what i was selling, having that belief in my voice and attitude during my sales pitch put me in the top 10 of every company i worked for.

[PeZook]

Yeah, but there was a time before people was indoctrinated into Christianity, as well as people who converted into religion even without indoctrination. One only have to take a look at what's happening in China, where the number of Christians converts is rapidly increasing to see how people are willingly to believe in a new faith even if common sense tells us otherwise.

You don't need to be indoctrinated into a specific religion. When you've grown up believing a fairy tale was real, getting that belief reinforced by everyone important around you, and when the society at large considers piety to be a virtue to be praised, converting to a different brand of imaginary woo-woo does not require any particular gullibility. You already think there are spirits or mutant animal-men living in the sky, you just think your ideas were not entirely true and the actual man in the sky is X instead of Y.

[Paula42]

To buy from a direct sales agent that visits your home or you visit say for a car you should never buy on the first visit and should (if it is say a car dealer) phone around other upto a dozen dealers with the exact details of what you want and get them to compete with each other. I do this for all my family members when they buy a new car and the last time i did i saved my aunt and uncle over £2100.00 as that was the price they were going to accept before i started hammering the dealerships.

Make a list of about 12 dealers within 40 miles and then just run down the list getting prices and forcing them to beat the prior price, keep doing this until they bottom out and start offering extras ect then pick the best deal, you may need to run down the list once or twice and some may bow out but others will accept a non profit deal just to help their monthly figures if they are having a crappy sales month.

[Simon_Jester]

So humans are gullible... compared to what? Compared to fish gullible enough to try and pick a fight with their own reflection in a mirror? Compared to dogs gullible enough to be trained to identify hairless apes as the alpha males of their pack? Compared to birds gullible enough to fail to recognize a cuckoo's egg in their own nest? Compared with donkeys gullible enough that we can trick them into pulling a cart by dangling a carrot in front of them on a stick?*

"Gullibility" is merely the ability to be tricked. And there is no species of animal, humans included, that can't be "tricked" into doing counterproductive things using methods that it didn't evolve to cope with. The only difference is that humans are the only species capable of inventing large arsenals of such tricks in a hurry, and we notice the tricks most easily when we're using them on each other.

*Note, this may not actually work; as far as I can tell it's only a proverb... but hardly out of line with the level of blatant trickery often used in animal training.

[someone_else]

Is there any particular reason we as a species are so willingly to take a leap of faith and believe in the words of others? Why aren't we more sceptical of things as a species?

As far as I know, every piece of info a guy receives is analyzed and interpreted by him depending on his own vision of the world.
If the information does not countradict his own view of the world, then it is assumed "right", if it goes against his own beliefs, it is categorized as "wrong".

This is what happens automatically, and for animals is more than enough to keep the number of screwups low.

For humans we see all very well what happens (UFOs, 2012, fundies of multiple religions, conmen ripping off people). That's why I think the prime role of any educator is teach "scientific literacy". Not formulas and constants and other fluffy stuff, but how to think and reason correctly.

Some people call it "bullshit-o-meter".

With that, when the guy does the automatic information processing, his reality is the true one (or reasonably close), and UFOs, fairies and assorted random things pulled out of arses without any proof, get all categorized as "wrong".
Also, being educated on how to think and reason correctly, it will be able to override the automatic right/wrong reflex and go look expert sites/scientific papers/other reliable sources and believe them over his own istinct (up to a certain extent, of course).

So, where are we getting?
Good education makes better people, more hard to trick.
Gee, that's a really new concept.

So where is the problem? Education.
Thankfully it is relatively easy to fix (i.e. it is not something inherent of human brain).

phone around other upto a dozen dealers with the exact details of what you want and get them to compete with each other

This assumes they don't all tacitly agree to make more or less the same prices and not change them for any reason. That's what happened last time my parents had to buy a car. The price difference between 10 dealers of the same car (with same optionals) was around 100 euros.
Prices of gas? The same.
Yes, most of the dealers here are lazy bummers.
Why study when a dozen phone calls are enough?

[Freefall]

With our pack mentality, it makes some sense. Deferring a lot of decision making power to the chieftan/shaman/whatever of a group cuts down on bickering amongst idiots and makes things more efficient. Athens kind of demonstrated that a true democracy isn't actually that great an idea.

I also remember Dawkins reading something about it pertaining to children; young kids that simply do what their parents say (don't play by that river!) would be more likely to survive than the ones who insist on figuring out everything for themselves when they aren't qualified to (i.e. river is full of crocodiles). And I guess this obedience instinct gets retained to some extent and transferred to other authority figures later in life.

I think the big problem is that people just aren't very discerning about what constitutes a legitimate authority figure. For some reason scientists are not often viewed as legitimate authorities, unless they are fringe guys who only publish their "theories" in books rather than papers. Then all of a sudden they are geniuses who are just being oppressed by the monolith of conventional science, or something stupid.

I also find it amusing how people will sometimes take something a scientist has said out of context, or just apply a lot of imagination to it, and then when other scientists tell them later that things don't work that way, they believe their own made up stuff instead. Like the whole "10% of your brain," thing, or cold fusion.

"Dude! Cold fusion is totally possible! Scientists just can't think outside the box enough to get it!"

"Do you know how cold fusion is actually supposed to work?"

"Uhhh...."

"Do you even know how regular fusion actually works?"

"Uhhh...."

"You do realize the only reason you even have a concept of 'fusion' in the first place is because of the scientists who figured out it could be done, right?"

"Shut up."

The 10% brain thing is similar, except there for some reason a bunch of people got the idea that using 100% of your brain all at once would turn you into a god, which obviously makes total sense, because everyone knows if you used 100% of your muscles all at once, you'd turn into Superman.

For humans we see all very well what happens (UFOs, 2012, fundies of multiple religions, conmen ripping off people). That's why I think the prime role of any educator is teach "scientific literacy". Not formulas and constants and other fluffy stuff, but how to think and reason correctly.

Just a critical thinking class should work, it should just be taught at a younger age. I don't know how it works in Europe, but here in California, I don't think I had a chance to take one until I got to college (I can't remember exactly if my highschool offered it as a senior elective, but even that is really too late; ideally it should be taught to some extent in elementary school and junior high. Not entirely sure why, but I think exposing kids to this before they become teenagers would be a very good idea).

So, where are we getting?
Good education makes better people, more hard to trick.
Gee, that's a really new concept.

So where is the problem? Education.
Thankfully it is relatively easy to fix (i.e. it is not something inherent of human brain).

Unfortunately, in America this is not so easy. Part of it is the fundamentalists who actively work against providing children with quality education, and part of it is probably the conservatives in general who won't provide funding for public schools, either because they don't care about people who are too poor to afford private schools, or because a lot of them realize they got where they are by screwing other people over, and that would become a lot harder if everyone receives a proper education (or some degree of both, most likely).

[Simon_Jester]

The 10% brain thing is similar, except there for some reason a bunch of people got the idea that using 100% of your brain all at once would turn you into a god, which obviously makes total sense, because everyone knows if you used 100% of your muscles all at once, you'd turn into Superman.

To be fair, if "10% of your brain" is implied to mean that everything you do with your brain uses only 10% of its capacity (with the other 90% being permanently unused) that makes a lot of sense.

Likewise, if you could use 100% of your brain efficiently, if your brain had the level of internal coordination to make it work, you would indeed be a bit of a superman- your ability to concentrate and multitask would go through the roof; you'd be able to perform wildly different tasks at the same time, and so on.

The problem is, of course, that the statement "only use 10% of your brain" is so vague that it can be spun to mean anything at all.

[RedImperator]

Unfortunately, in America this is not so easy. Part of it is the fundamentalists who actively work against providing children with quality education, and part of it is probably the conservatives in general who won't provide funding for public schools, either because they don't care about people who are too poor to afford private schools, or because a lot of them realize they got where they are by screwing other people over, and that would become a lot harder if everyone receives a proper education (or some degree of both, most likely).

Maybe if I'm really good this year, Santa will make people stop explaining what's wrong with the school system unless they actually understand what's wrong with the school system.

[Paula42]

This assumes they don't all tacitly agree to make more or less the same prices and not change them for any reason.

While they may agree to this with each other to do so the likely hood of them actually doing so and losing the chance of a sale is extremely low as sales agents are a mercenary lot at best.

That's what happened last time my parents had to buy a car. The price difference between 10 dealers of the same car (with same optionals) was around 100 euros.

Ypou should have phoned around more dealers or pushed harder in the end they will buckle as the monthly figures and the bonuses that they will get are more important than a verbal agreement with other agents that they only made for selfish/greedy reasons in the first place. Sales agents are greedy so using that flaw against them is the key to getting the best deal, the power in the situation is yours and remember that at all times no matter what they say that there is no such thing as a deal that is only available there and then.